David Hingtgen Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 Build Fighters actually was fun though. (early on when it was basically a ton of homages, the later iterations got worse) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PointBlankSniper Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 7 hours ago, David Hingtgen said: Build Fighters actually was fun though. (early on when it was basically a ton of homages, the later iterations got worse) basically just the first season, as it was designed to be. the rest of them lost the premise and went on to invent strange things and pad themselves out with low effort filler writing. so rare to find someone reasonable about it though. usually its just blind rage on all build series for not being big bois and genocide, even if it means throwing the concept of homage into the fire. or the polar opposite, which are the folks that lap up everything with gundam in the title lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolt Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 On 6/5/2023 at 10:49 AM, Shawn said: Maybe throw old farts like me an OVA 4 part special or something to keep me interested in the new stuff, or this new Macross series turns into another 'not for me' set, and I cling to my original VF-1s and sit in the corner complaining. 😛 This would be cool. I'm sure there's many an older Macross fan in Japan that feels the same. Of course we know we're not the target audience. But one can always hope. And yes, the Valkyrie's have already crossed the Gundam threshold. While i do like the newer designs, i still prefer the Vf-19 , vf-25 style. They were more of a perfect blend of old and new. Though I understand the need for progress in design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Togo Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 On 6/5/2023 at 1:49 PM, Shawn said: Ditch the singing teenage girl teams and give me something more like Macross Plus with some new-old school design valks from the Advanced Valkyrie project...like the freaking vf-3000 already. Its only been since 1985 since it debuted. The valks in the new series are so far divorced from the original designs, they don't seem like valkyries to me-or at least the original intention of what a valkyrie was...to fight giants one on one if necessary. I'd like a return to a simpler series, but I'm old and well outside the new target audiences. I only have my wallet to vote with, and I spend it on the old design stuff (DX VF-1/Hasegawa) Maybe throw old farts like me an OVA 4 part special or something to keep me interested in the new stuff, or this new Macross series turns into another 'not for me' set, and I cling to my original VF-1s and sit in the corner complaining. 😛 This is 100% where I am at with Macross, but I try not to complain too much about it anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 8 hours ago, Bolt said: And yes, the Valkyrie's have already crossed the Gundam threshold. Kinda curious what this is supposed to mean, TBH. I mean, yeah... we've had a wildly impractical and impossible-to-mass-produce Gundam-style super prototype in the YF-29 but it's an isolated incident. It's not like new models are being introduced multiple times in mid-series or we're being hit with fifty slightly different variants to sell plamodels... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti88 Posted June 8, 2023 Author Share Posted June 8, 2023 (edited) On 6/6/2023 at 3:55 AM, Seto Kaiba said: I'd joke about Sunrise taking that as a challenge and arm a mecha in the new series with actual scissors... but I remembered they did that quite literally in Iron-Blooded Orphans with the Gusion Rebake Fullcity. Giant scissors? Brutal mecha fighting scenes? Time to bring back this gif... Maybe sunrise will bring back folks blown up and aliens being decapitated ... on second thought...naah..who am i kidding... Edited June 8, 2023 by seti88 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvmacross Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 I still prefer VFs with Gundam vibes than actual Gundams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti88 Posted June 8, 2023 Author Share Posted June 8, 2023 25 minutes ago, jvmacross said: I still prefer VFs with Gundam vibes than actual Gundams Ooo yeah M2 does have its charm though i cant remember kawamori-san's opinion of M2 designs, back in the day... So we going back to flat as a pancake valks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duymon Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 No worry. Macross won't become gundam until there's an Angsty Teenage kid who hates adults and is forced into a super powerful valkyrie to survive. And then the kid slowly spends the show realizing he has to fight a war he hates and the best way to solve the problem of adults killing eachother is to just kill all the bad guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treatment Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 Sunrise should sub-contract Studio Deen to finally do this theme into Macross... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pengbuzz Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 On 6/5/2023 at 1:49 PM, Shawn said: Ditch the singing teenage girl teams and give me something more like Macross Plus with some new-old school design valks from the Advanced Valkyrie project...like the freaking vf-3000 already. Its only been since 1985 since it debuted. The valks in the new series are so far divorced from the original designs, they don't seem like valkyries to me-or at least the original intention of what a valkyrie was...to fight giants one on one if necessary. I'd like a return to a simpler series, but I'm old and well outside the new target audiences. I only have my wallet to vote with, and I spend it on the old design stuff (DX VF-1/Hasegawa) Maybe throw old farts like me an OVA 4 part special or something to keep me interested in the new stuff, or this new Macross series turns into another 'not for me' set, and I cling to my original VF-1s and sit in the corner complaining. 😛 Agreed on all counts: even MII seems more "Macross" than the later permutations. Maybe they should just spend some time redoing the original series so the animation doesn't look like aged milk compared to the later ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanity is Optional Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 On 6/5/2023 at 11:29 PM, Duymon said: introducing Macross Builders! Brave middle school kids customize their own valkyries and fight virtual battles... *cringe* I mean...if I ended up with some cool custom VF figures/kits, I'd be kinda ok with that? I'd still prefer a good show, but I'd take a bad show with lots of interesting merch over say Delta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti88 Posted June 8, 2023 Author Share Posted June 8, 2023 (edited) Dear sunrise/kawamori-san....hire this man!! whoa... In terms of the new animation, i feel that if macross would get a refreshed design ethos, perhaps some new ideas would spring up. Something like gundam 00, where one could feel that gundam took a radically modern (in those days?) DNA to set its course over the next gen... Edited June 8, 2023 by seti88 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolt Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 14 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said: Kinda curious what this is supposed to mean, TBH. I mean, yeah... we've had a wildly impractical and impossible-to-mass-produce Gundam-style super prototype in the YF-29 but it's an isolated incident. It's not like new models are being introduced multiple times in mid-series or we're being hit with fifty slightly different variants to sell plamodels... I don't mean the Gundam plamodel formula. Though I'm sure That's what Bandai is going for with their new 1/100 Macross kits. What i mean are the overly tooled up add on armored parts on the VF-31's. It just comes across as excessive, regardless of the in universe justification. IMO, it comes across as an effort to be a bit too Gundamy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PointBlankSniper Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 13 hours ago, seti88 said: Giant scissors? Brutal mecha fighting scenes? Time to bring back this gif... ngl, been thinking beam drones deployed from hardpoints seemed like a long overdue idea. other than the beam part, we already have things like x-61A gremlins and sparrowhawk irl. guiding them by idol dance seems like the most logical way to keep themes cohesive lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twich Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 6 hours ago, seti88 said: Dear sunrise/kawamori-san....hire this man!! whoa... In terms of the new animation, i feel that if macross would get a refreshed design ethos, perhaps some new ideas would spring up. Something like gundam 00, where one could feel that gundam took a radically modern (in those days?) DNA to set its course over the next gen... It looks like the Armored VF-1J has too many joints in its legs……I agree with your statement of that picture….whoa! Twich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 10 hours ago, Bolt said: I don't mean the Gundam plamodel formula. Though I'm sure That's what Bandai is going for with their new 1/100 Macross kits. They won't have truly hit that formula until/unless this new Macross series introduces a new model of VF every other episode and the protagonist's VF is upgraded at least six times in the course of the series... followed by a "Variations" extra file with approximately 300 new variants of the VF-1. 10 hours ago, Bolt said: What i mean are the overly tooled up add on armored parts on the VF-31's. It just comes across as excessive, regardless of the in universe justification. IMO, it comes across as an effort to be a bit too Gundamy. Not gonna lie, I am not seeing it. Gundam's... Gundams... generally don't come loaded for bear like that. There are some that fit the bill like the Endless Waltz version of the HeavyArms, the Full Armor Unicorn Gundam, or the overequipped takes on the OYW designs in Gundam Thunderbolt's first half, but those are the exception and IMO only the Full Armor Unicorn comes anywhere close to the level of gratuitous dakka we see in the 5th Gen Armored Packs. Most Mobile Suits in Gundam can be counted on to be relatively lightly armed... a handheld gun, one or two blade weapons for close combat, and if you're lucky one or two built-in light machine guns seemingly for tradition's sake since firing them never seems to accomplish anything. If you want to see what Gundam-y actually looks like in Macross... well, look no further than the original Armored Pack, which is very similar in style and execution to MSV's Full Armor Gundam (FA-78-1), or the Macross II Valkyries. Especially the Macross II Valkyries, which were designed by Gundam veterans and boasted such features as bits and funnels, and had a prototype (albeit not a super one) that just straight-up had a Gundam's paintjob as @jvmacross pointed out and an enemy ace whose mecha was bright red, sported a horn, and a faster top speed than normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PointBlankSniper Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 besides massive up-armor, and overloaded for missile spam being the hallmark of macross, which gundam doesn't even hold a candle to, yall aware kawamori designed the premier hulking and nuke launching gundam that is gp02 right? it was actually macross that was put into gundam, and the man did it himself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DewPoint Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 So it might be a Macross II sequel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelBird4 Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 There go my hopes for the SDF-1 story being revisited a la SBY 2199... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSK Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 Good news. Since Sunrise is well known and respected on the worldwide scene, it could be the new beginning Macross needed, that worldwide take off Big West promised two years ago with the agreement. Although I'm worried about how they'll handle this. More than what Sunrise will do with Macross. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SebastianP Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 All the people going "they changed it now it sucks" need to remember that the record deal and the music has always been the big money maker for the series. Big West wants music that they can sell and make more big bucks on, hence why they've been picking genres that are currently popular and then going all in on them. Macross Plus may be more popular with western fans than Macross 7, but it was Fire Bomber's songs that basically paid for all of it in the end. Similarly, the VF designs changed because Kawamori became more conscious of toy sales and needing things to be both sturdy and accurate. All of the 2D era VFs are stuck in a position where a toy has to be either anime accurate in robot form, anime accurate in plane form, or some compromise between, because the proportions in the original anime weren't exactly measured. Anyway, my hope for a Sunrise-animated Macross show is that we get some ground combat and destroids again, after not seeing anything new since Macross Frontier's Cheyenne II, which in turn was based on a Macross 0 design rather than any of the old DYRL ones. And *proper databooks*, with figures that make sense from the start and aren't retconned to the point where things no longer fit if you use the official scale. And more Tenjin-designed ships, and not the guy who made the Quarter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PvtPrivate Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 (edited) Everyone's mentioning return to mecha because its Sunrise because Gundams... But everyone seem to forget Sunrise also makes Love Live, their other big hitter (bigger than gundam?). TBH i am quite exited either way. Macross with sunrise's experience with mechas, or Macross with sunrise's amazing Love Live dance CGI. It'd be amazing if we have both 😮 Edited June 9, 2023 by PvtPrivate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 9 hours ago, SebastianP said: All the people going "they changed it now it sucks" need to remember that the record deal and the music has always been the big money maker for the series. Big West wants music that they can sell and make more big bucks on, hence why they've been picking genres that are currently popular and then going all in on them. After Delta, I think that's well understood by everyone... that message was delivered with all the subtlety of a saturation bombardment. 9 hours ago, SebastianP said: Macross Plus may be more popular with western fans than Macross 7, but it was Fire Bomber's songs that basically paid for all of it in the end. Not to mention 7 was substantially more popular in Japan... it's the second-highest rated Macross overall based on fan polling. 9 hours ago, SebastianP said: Anyway, my hope for a Sunrise-animated Macross show is that we get some ground combat and destroids again, after not seeing anything new since Macross Frontier's Cheyenne II, which in turn was based on a Macross 0 design rather than any of the old DYRL ones. Now that is probably an unrealistic hope... esp. with the in-universe position on Destroids basically being that they were a mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Focker Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 The last 'serious' Macross is decades old. I would love a more mature Macross again but we all know that's not going to happen. I'd be really surprised if they went back to its roots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenius Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 Armored Troopers: Macross Fang of the Sun: Macross So Bandai owns Sunrise right? If so, it's surprising this didn't happen a long time ago. It's this bad news for our friends in Japan that were helping with translations and such? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronocidal Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 Is it too much to hope that maybe we'll get something focused on actual military things this time? Or are we going to be forever stuck in the "plucky group of teenagers inexplicably entrusted with advanced military hardware" trope? I'm not even sure I care either way.. just please write a good story this time, and build around that. Delta had so much wasted potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 3 hours ago, jenius said: So Bandai owns Sunrise right? If so, it's surprising this didn't happen a long time ago. Sort of? Yes and no? It's complicated. The toy company Bandai Inc. doesn't own Sunrise. Both Bandai and Sunrise are owned by the same holding company, Bandai Namco Holdings Inc., the top-level corporate entity that oversees the post-merger conglomerate Bandai Namco Group. Bandai Co. Ltd. had a stake in Sunrise big enough to make Sunrise an affiliate company since 1994, but Sunrise did not become a wholly owned subsidiary of Bandai Namco until March 1st, 2020 when Bandai Namco Holdings completed its acquisition of long-time Gundam sponsor and Sunrise major shareholder Sotsu (fmrly. Sotsu Agency). So in practice, Bandai Namco has only actually owned Sunrise for about three and a quarter years at time of writing... and they've spent a fair amount of that time on multiple corporate reorgs. The only Macross title to come out since that acquisition was Absolute Live!!!!!!. I guess it's not surprising that, now that longtime Macross partner Bandai and Sunrise are officially under the same umbrella, they'd make a play to have Sunrise work on Macross. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hikaru Ichijo SL Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 On 6/8/2023 at 11:47 PM, AngelBird4 said: There go my hopes for the SDF-1 story being revisited a la SBY 2199... I would be 100% down for that. 2199 was how a remake should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandman Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 Oh wow. Surprised they went with sunrise instead of the perceived shoe in satelight. I wonder what the reasoning was? And what Kawamori thinks of this? With the way Delta ended up, I will give sunrise a chance. I have a feeling this move was triggered by toy sales and the desire to expand it. Weather that translates into a good show, we'll see. I hope they don't go alternate universe like Gundam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DewPoint Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 So Sunrise has given me some trauma in the past. No Joke. Ever since they aired Gundam: G no Reconguista I have had a hard time (aversion rather) watching any Gundam show following it. It took me a long time to start watching Thunderbolt and Unicorn. I have really watched anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kajnrig Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 I tend not to like much of Sunrise's Gundam animation. But they've often done very good "traditional" flight and dogfighting animation, and their other mecha animation can be pretty good (if a bit uninspired), so I'm cautiously optimistic that they'll do at least the mecha side of things justice. Character animation... well, they're no worse than Satelight, at that. I know some people don't like Satelight's character animation, but I think it does its job. What I'd have especially liked is a studio like KyoAni (Full Metal Panic: The Second Raid) or Orange (Land of the Lustrous, Beastars, Trigun Stampede), but Sunrise is consistent quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanity is Optional Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 7 hours ago, DewPoint said: So Sunrise has given me some trauma in the past. No Joke. Ever since they aired Gundam: G no Reconguista I have had a hard time (aversion rather) watching any Gundam show following it. It took me a long time to start watching Thunderbolt and Unicorn. I have really watched anything else. G no Reconguista was pretty freaking awful, probably the worst anime I've actually watched all of. No character consistency whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcon Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 On 6/10/2023 at 11:33 AM, Seto Kaiba said: Not to mention 7 was substantially more popular in Japan... it's the second-highest rated Macross overall based on fan polling. I'd be interested to know when that vote took place. Really surprised that M7 beat Macross Frontier... although I like M7 music more I always thought that Frontier was in the Goldilocks zone with the music and mecha action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PointBlankSniper Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 9 hours ago, Sandman said: Oh wow. Surprised they went with sunrise instead of the perceived shoe in satelight. I wonder what the reasoning was? And what Kawamori thinks of this? With the way Delta ended up, I will give sunrise a chance. I have a feeling this move was triggered by toy sales and the desire to expand it. Weather that translates into a good show, we'll see. I hope they don't go alternate universe like Gundam. A new Aquarion was announced in the past couple months. it could be that satellite is busy with that. perhaps kawamori is divided for that project, or possibly even totally devoted over there and is hands off with this Macross. honestly killed my hope for a new Macross when I heard about that Aquarion, so this Sunrise project is even more out of left field to me than those out of the loop lol 8 hours ago, DewPoint said: So Sunrise has given me some trauma in the past. No Joke. Ever since they aired Gundam: G no Reconguista I have had a hard time (aversion rather) watching any Gundam show following it. It took me a long time to start watching Thunderbolt and Unicorn. I have really watched anything else. G Reco can probably be fully blamed on Tomino, the OG gundam director. Sunrise probably just let him do w/e he wanted out of respect, so it ended up being that retro style of trippy and deranged story writing. The other gundams since then are not like that. Most of them are mediocre to bad, but in a modern uninspired, low effort sort of way. 5 hours ago, kajnrig said: What I'd have especially liked is a studio like KyoAni (Full Metal Panic: The Second Raid) Since we lost KyoAni, your preference may get monkey pawed lol. The sequel to second raid, invisible victory, was picked up by xebec. which was pretty decent imo, although not their best work. allegedly, when production I.G., their original overlords, folded them for being unprofitable, Sunrise scooped them up. They should now be the studio under the name of Sunrise Beyond. After doing the Gundam Build Diver series, their latest work was Kyoukai Senki. The rock bottom that I have been alluding to, that Sunrise had the gall to put their stamp of approval on as mentioned in my previous posts. Here's to hoping they don't have a hand in this Macross, or seriously get their act together and return to form Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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