Knight26 Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 (edited) There are plenty of ways they could have updated the X-wing. The fuselage changes I am good with the for the most part, though I wish they had raised the cockpit up a bit to give better visibility, that was always my biggest gripe with the original. I am actually ok with the engine redesign, I feel it works better. The issue I have is with the wing split primarily. They could have kept the original splitting method or even gone with a hex wing design (similar to the ARC-170) and it still would have looked ok. It's this mid chord split that really hurts it.It's like Chronocidal said with the JJ-prise, they changed it just for the sake of changing it. The new X-wing almost has JJ-prise nacelle syndrome with the rear wing laser cannons.Compare:With the exception of JJ-prise all Big-Es have their nacelles fitted to their nacelles at or near the center of mass of the nacelle (at least visually). The original had them, slightly further forward, but not so much to make it seem totally out of balance. The JJ-prise has the nacelle attached at the end of the moment arm with a huge amount of mass aft of it, and with a nacelle arm that tapers down as it approaches. All of these are structural nightmares.Now while this one is a fan model, and not 100% accurate) it illustrates the wing issue pretty well:https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8629/15999069785_e025c9302e_z.jpg The upper laser is again attached at the end of the moment arm. Now, that wing having a longer chord might help with the twisting/torsion issue, but not enough. The lower laser, while attached to a short chord wing, is at least attached near the CoM (visually) making it appear more balanced. Edited December 18, 2014 by Knight26 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electric indigo Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 If you'd ever built one of the old MPC X-Wing kits, you'd know that the real weak spot is the mounting of the rear engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchizophrenicMC Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 I've never had issues with drooping blasters. They're pretty lightweight-looking. At least, the barrels are. The big chunky assembly on the wingtip mount looks a lot heavier than the rest of the cannon. The design always gave me the impression that the forces acting on the end of the blasters were less than the materials and overall design could withstand, between strong lightweight alloys, and a blaster that didn't really look all that heavy in the barrel.The new X-Wing has the same aesthetic to its blasters, but now the heavy-looking bit is hanging over the wingtip mounts. It's harder to accept the hand-wave now. The designs of sci-fi objects have to fulfill fantasy, and be novel, but they also have to be rooted in a sense of suspension of disbelief. The more off a design looks, the less likely a viewer will be able to suspend disbelief. I've said it before, and I'll reiterate it: I don't really take issue with the science behind the designs or their changes. What I don't like is that these designs get changed willy-nilly for no stated reason. Why did the X-wing need these changes? Just give me a reason. "The design was updated over time in universe" is not a reason, it's telling me what I can see in the picture. And what I see is the art direction changing in the same way Abrams' films always change the art direction, for no other reason than that's how Abrams likes his designs. I guess that's fair enough, but Star Wars isn't a pet project, it's a cultural icon, and I would have hoped a bit more effort would be put into the art for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddsun1 Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 (edited) You do not need to question this design... Haha, I can't believe nobody else's done that yet... But no. Seriously. Fu*k J.J. Abrams. Edited December 18, 2014 by reddsun1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danth Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 (edited) https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8629/15999069785_e025c9302e_z.jpg Is that really what the new wing design looks like? That looks like crap. Edited December 18, 2014 by danth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchizophrenicMC Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Is that really what the new wing design looks like? That looks like crap. Yup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derex3592 Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 (edited) It's an "X-wing LIGHT" design... ...reduces weight if you loose half the wings..makes it go faster! X-Wing "Superleggera"! Edited December 18, 2014 by derex3592 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommar Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Unlike the JJPrise I'm going to maintain to the last the new X-Wing looks good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronocidal Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 I wouldn't even mind the looks if the wings weren't setting off every OCD and structural nonsense alarm in my brain. The updated fuselage profile doesnt look bad at all, and the split engines are what the design had originally anyway. Honestly though... those lower wings look like they would snap off like twigs. I dont see anything even supporting them, it's like they're just pasted against the lower engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverstreak Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 But the JJPrise does look good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchizophrenicMC Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 The whole assembly looks spindly. While I can take or leave the Ralph McQuarrie engines (though I do prefer the 4 small cylindrical nacelles to the 4 large semicylindrical nacelles) I think the wings don't look like wings. The upper one looks kind of wing-like, but the lower one is just narrow.Original: New: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobber Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 (edited) Honestly though... those lower wings look like they would snap off like twigs. I dont see anything even supporting them, it's like they're just pasted against the lower engines.That's because that fan rendering is missing the lower "housing" that is just next to the engine on the lower wing. They put on the upper wing correctly but they forgot the lower one. It's where the main landing gear go.Anyways, I really like the new and old X-wing. To hate it is your preferences, (not just you Chronicidal) but it's kind of silly to forgive the original designs...."sins"....but not this ones. In some cases it just seems like more JJ bashing. Also, I'd like to point out, at NO time in the original trilogy was it ever stated that the s-foils opened to provide any sort of heat disapation. That is just fan conjecture. It was only done to look cool. Physical stresses, aerodynamics, ect have always been way out of control in the Star Wars universe. Everything was just made to look cool, and I personally think the new X fits the bill nicely. If you guys don't like it that's fine, but some of these reasons are just silly. Chris Edited December 18, 2014 by Dobber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danth Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 I think the problem is that the X-Wing is just too inconic of a design to go cutting the wings in half. I believe it really is just change for the sake of ego. Some designer somewhere is very proud to put his "touch" on the Star Wars universe, even though the result is a wimpier looking fighter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronocidal Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Yeah, I think some of what grates people about the new design is that they're negating all the years of fan conjecture about how the ship works. The thing that did just hit me though.. mass distribution. Reworking the wings that way would definitely throw the center of mass off somewhere that's not the center of the wings. The old design didn't do that since the wings were all identical. There's no reason that you couldn't counter that with computer controls, but it still makes you wonder why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danth Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 On the other hand, it could be just another variation of the X Wing. I mean there are a ton of different Tie fighters. Although in this case, I think the new X-Wing isn't different enough to justify itself. I'm wondering what the design process was like. "I know, let's take the X-Wing, and REMOVE a wing from each side." "But then it won't be an X-Wing" "Hmm. In that case, let's split two remaining wings in half. Voila!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dizman Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 (edited) You guys have to pace yourselves, we have a whole year to tear this movie apart before we even see it . On an unrelated note, I wish the E wing was still a thing and not lost in the EU purge. Edited December 19, 2014 by dizman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchizophrenicMC Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Even going outside the issue of movie canon being superior to non-movie canon (even though the radiator thing is G-Canon) and avoiding all the technical talk, you have to wonder why they changed the design. There was no reason to. The only reason with an iota of possibility is because somebody wanted to put his touch on something as big as Star Wars. This whole debacle is because some artistic type decided to change the art style for the sake of changing the art style. Somehow this is a travesty when Lucas does it in prequels, but it's hunky-dory when Abrams does it for sequels. At least the clean aesthetic of the prequels generally made sense- we're not seeing a group of rebels after a 20 year war, we're seeing the height of the Republic. Even if I don't care for most of the design direction in the prequels, I'll grant that the designs generally make sense, and tie into the overall mythos of Star Wars. So what the hell do the Split-Wing starfighter, the fudgesicle speeder, and the FIFA-bot have to do with the mythos of Star Wars? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myk Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Even going outside the issue of movie canon being superior to non-movie canon (even though the radiator thing is G-Canon) and avoiding all the technical talk, you have to wonder why they changed the design. There was no reason to. The only reason with an iota of possibility is because somebody wanted to put his touch on something as big as Star Wars. Change for the sake of change. And yes, this will be a long, long year of the ultimate angst-thread... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anime52k8 Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 This whole debacle is because some artistic type decided to change the art style for the sake of changing the art style. Somehow this is a travesty when Lucas does it in prequels, but it's hunky-dory when Abrams does it for sequels. At least the clean aesthetic of the prequels generally made sense- we're not seeing a group of rebels after a 20 year war, we're seeing the height of the Republic. Even if I don't care for most of the design direction in the prequels, I'll grant that the designs generally make sense, and tie into the overall mythos of Star Wars. Clearly it's not hunky-dory since people can't stop whining about changing the god damn frakking wings on an ass ugly space ship that looked like crap in 1977 and still looks like crap today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchizophrenicMC Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Man, usually when I troll that hard, I get banned. How is anime# here getting away with it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenius Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 You guys inow 30 years passed right? It's change for the sake of the audience expects change. Arguing the merits of the change of a vehicle designed to look cool and exist in fantasy is silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azrael Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 This whole debacle is because some artistic type decided to change the art style for the sake of changing the art style. Somehow this is a travesty when Lucas does it in prequels, but it's hunky-dory when Abrams does it for sequels. At least the clean aesthetic of the prequels generally made sense- we're not seeing a group of rebels after a 20 year war, we're seeing the height of the Republic. Even if I don't care for most of the design direction in the prequels, I'll grant that the designs generally make sense, and tie into the overall mythos of Star Wars. Frankly, I accepted the designs in the prequels because 1) Different time period, 2) Different aliens, different design aesthetics. The road lead to the original trilogy in the end so I never saw a problem with that. When the prequels came out, I watched the Behind-the-scenes episodes so I followed their train of thought and it made sense. With this movie, time is going to factor into the design, which is fine. But, it would help me understand if they gave me a bit more to work with. I kinda miss those behind-the-scenes that I got with Lucas. These days, it's all hush-hush and everything-and-everyone is protected by a strict NDA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchizophrenicMC Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 I'll grant those points, Azrael. Like I've said, if the artists would give a reason beyond "well, times change" I'd cool it. Even Lucas took care to shed light on his thought process behind the art direction of the prequels, and it lent credence to the notion that the older stuff would be cleaner, and the newer stuff would be grimy and used, in a way.I just don't understand the new art direction, and they're all mum about the new film and won't tell anybody anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Valkyrie Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Why all the bashing on the new X-Wings, let it go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 I love the look of both the old X-wing and the new X-wing. Nobody ever accused Star Wars of making sense Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverstreak Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 You guys inow 30 years passed right? It's change for the sake of the audience expects change. Arguing the merits of the change of a vehicle designed to look cool and exist in fantasy is silly. You're talking logic. Leave. Leave now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Man, forget the neXt-Wing, I wanna know why the Millennium Falcon is still flying. The damn thing barely worked in Star Wars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Even going outside the issue of movie canon being superior to non-movie canon (even though the radiator thing is G-Canon) and avoiding all the technical talk, you have to wonder why they changed the design. There was no reason to. Isn't this movie set 40 years later than RotJ? Things change in four decades... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefuemon Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Not Episode 7 news, but they're making a huge sculpture from episode 4 for the Sapporo Snow Festival this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommar Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 So here's the two main reasons they changed the X-Wing. 1) It's thirty years later and if they used the exact same design people would think they were being lazy, they would want to know why there weren't new fighters but if they completely removed the most iconic fighter for something new people wouldn't like that either because most people only say they want "change" when reality they want something very similar/familiar... which this will be. 2) Merchandising, now they have a NEW X-Wing to sell (Hasbro/Lego/etc...) If it looked like the old X-Wing nobody would need the new Lego kit. It still fits the Lucas parameter for Star Wars to a T, it doesn't make any real world sense (nor does it need to) and it's rife with merchandising opportunities. Get over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Valkyrie Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 So here's the two main reasons they changed the X-Wing. 1) It's thirty years later and if they used the exact same design people would think they were being lazy, they would want to know why there weren't new fighters but if they completely removed the most iconic fighter for something new people wouldn't like that either because most people only say they want "change" when reality they want something very similar/familiar... which this will be. 2) Merchandising, now they have a NEW X-Wing to sell (Hasbro/Lego/etc...) If it looked like the old X-Wing nobody would need the new Lego kit. It still fits the Lucas parameter for Star Wars to a T, it doesn't make any real world sense (nor does it need to) and it's rife with merchandising opportunities. Get over it. Or let it go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommar Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Or let it go. Nah, I don't like that movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikElvis Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Put me in the minority. I like the new xwing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobber Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Put me in the minority. I like the new xwing. You are not in the minority. There are just some very vocal dislikers here. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 2) Merchandising, now they have a NEW X-Wing to sell (Hasbro/Lego/etc...) If it looked like the old X-Wing nobody would need the new Lego kit.Didn't stop 'em from selling Slave 1 in both classic and prequel colors. But I think the neXt-Wing looks pretty cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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