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How can there be a fourth matrix when there is only one film?

The ending was awesome: “I’m going to hang up this phone, and then show these people what you don’t want them to see. I’m going to show them a world without you. A world without rules or controls, borders or boundaries. A world where anything is possible. Where we go from there is a choice I leave to you.”

:D

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7 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Since the war with the Machines is over, let's just go all-in on the cyberpunk dystopia and make it a stealth prequel to Blame!.

That would be dope..

 

1 hour ago, derex3592 said:

uhh ohh -- I saw it on Amazon or Netflix one the other day, and thought about watching it....no huh? run away???

 

 

Jupiter Ascending was a major let down. Watch it when you're bored and curious.

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9 hours ago, spacemanoeuvres said:

How can there be a fourth matrix when there is only one film?

The ending was awesome: “I’m going to hang up this phone, and then show these people what you don’t want them to see. I’m going to show them a world without you. A world without rules or controls, borders or boundaries. A world where anything is possible. Where we go from there is a choice I leave to you.”

:D

That's the way I see it. I may hope that a 4th would solve the ills of the middle pair, but it is only a slim hope. I'll have to wait and see what they come up.

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Watched a Looper YouTube video on this earlier today, I'm glad that this sequel has supposedly killed a reboot of the Matrix. It's one of those properties that IMHO really should be just left alone.

I'll reserve judgement on like/do not like until at least a trailer but I don't carry high confidence based on Reloaded and Revolutions.

Especially with the Wachowski's who I guess depending on who you ask haven't done anything "good" in awhile. I've heard positive things about Sense8, but haven't watched myself and know next to nothing about the series.

-b.

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1 hour ago, Dynaman said:

The thing with the Matrix is - why is the Matrix a "bad" thing.  Sure your real body is in a dump but you never know that unless a bunch of jerks "wake" you up and make your life miserable.

the thing with the matrix is that basically nothing of the premise makes sense if you think about it for more than 5 seconds. 

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37 minutes ago, Thom said:

Batteries... Get past that part and the movie gets better. ;)

I remember reading someone's opinion somewhere on it, and it was something along the lines that it wasn't the humans being used for power, but their brains being used for the complex equations used to control (cold) fusion or something like that.

I always found that much more intriguing, especially if you take the film dialogue with a grain of salt (what the characters say isn't the filmmaker speaking describing the setting, but only describing what they know based on the limited knowledge that they have).

Of course, the 2nd and 3rd movies threw that out the window.  The biggest disappointment with #3 was that it didn't elaborate on the direction hinted at in the 2nd movie: the matrix is really inside another matrix (the machine world) inside another matrix (heretofore unseen).  Hopefully the 4th movie will explore that.

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1 hour ago, sketchley said:

I remember reading someone's opinion somewhere on it, and it was something along the lines that it wasn't the humans being used for power, but their brains being used for the complex equations used to control (cold) fusion or something like that.

Apparently, that was the original explanation given in early drafts. It was changed to "batteries" in the final revision because it was confusing and audiences wouldn't understand.

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On 8/21/2019 at 5:29 PM, renegadeleader1 said:

Considering Neo was using Matrix super powers "outside" of the Matrix during the final battle I'd say there's a good chance of that.

gosh, i forgot abt that cos i blanked out the sequels....you are right, maybe that question of how he used his powers outside, would be answered somehow.
 

Quick someone spin a top!.....

source.gif.7517692b2997ccbac155980ee06ca90a.gif

 


 

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On 8/22/2019 at 8:26 PM, Dynaman said:

The thing with the Matrix is - why is the Matrix a "bad" thing.  Sure your real body is in a dump but you never know that unless a bunch of jerks "wake" you up and make your life miserable.

What if your life in the Matrix already sucks? I don't think Neo enjoyed his shitty apartment and cubicle life as Mr. Anderson so I'm sure that was a factor in taking the red pill. This goes back to Morpheus confessing to Neo on why they don't free minds after a certain age. On that note...

My wife and I discussed a hypothetical 'what if' we were in a Matrix and would either of us take a red or blue pill. We both agreed we would take the blue pill because of our young children. Even though we couldn't physically hold them our love would be still there for each other through the Matrix :wub:

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Part of me wonders if the Machines would have done better to put every one in their own private Idaho instead of mixing everyone together in the same Matrix.

I suppose that last bit is open to speculation. Why should anyone be the one who "suffers" in the matrix if the world could revolve around them?

 

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14 minutes ago, Mazinger said:

Why should anyone be the one who "suffers" in the matrix if the world could revolve around them?

Ah, but then you get into the problem with Red Dwarf's "Better Than Life" game... which gives you the chance to live out all your fantasies (and thus, becomes excruciatingly boring after a few hours).  :unsure:

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The Matrix, or at least its incarnation as of the movies, explicitly wasn't a paradise in order to better suit the people being plugged into it. The first Matrix was a paradise, and apparently failed because of it. Smith explains as much in the first movie, and the Architect does as well in the last.

 

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32 minutes ago, kajnrig said:

The Matrix, or at least its incarnation as of the movies, explicitly wasn't a paradise in order to better suit the people being plugged into it. The first Matrix was a paradise, and apparently failed because of it. Smith explains as much in the first movie, and the Architect does as well in the last.

Good points.  I had forgotten about that had been mentioned in those exchanges.

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On 8/23/2019 at 6:16 PM, Thom said:

Batteries... Get past that part and the movie gets better. ;)

The thing is, while the battery part is extremely stupid for multiple reasons, what bothers me even more is the idea that the grand strategy to stop the machines was to globally block out the sun. The entire military and political leadership of the world agrees on this plan and not a single person notices that blocking out the sun would defiantly CAUSE THE ENTIRE HUMAN POPULATION TO STARVE. No sun=no plant life; no plants=no herbivores; no herbivores=no carnivores. Meanwhile, the machines run on electricity. Even if they were 100% dependent on solar power (which is really unlikely), it wouldn't be hard for them to convert over to an alternate source of power (that isn't human bodies). If anything, the lack of sun makes using humans for anything more problematic since you have to produce enough nutrients to sustain your human population in a world where you can't grow anything.

Another, smaller thing that really bugs me: why are the machines all vulnerable to EMPs in the movies but were apparently unaffected by the EMP effects of being continuously bombarded by the entire worlds stockpile of nuclear weapons?

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On 8/24/2019 at 10:53 PM, anime52k8 said:

The thing is, while the battery part is extremely stupid for multiple reasons, what bothers me even more is the idea that the grand strategy to stop the machines was to globally block out the sun. The entire military and political leadership of the world agrees on this plan and not a single person notices that blocking out the sun would defiantly CAUSE THE ENTIRE HUMAN POPULATION TO STARVE. No sun=no plant life; no plants=no herbivores; no herbivores=no carnivores. Meanwhile, the machines run on electricity. Even if they were 100% dependent on solar power (which is really unlikely), it wouldn't be hard for them to convert over to an alternate source of power (that isn't human bodies). If anything, the lack of sun makes using humans for anything more problematic since you have to produce enough nutrients to sustain your human population in a world where you can't grow anything.

Another, smaller thing that really bugs me: why are the machines all vulnerable to EMPs in the movies but were apparently unaffected by the EMP effects of being continuously bombarded by the entire worlds stockpile of nuclear weapons?

Deep dives sometimes only bring up more questions that have no answers... Such as why didn't the Machines just lobotomize everyone when the first Matrix Paradise failed? Can't rebel without higher brain functions.;)

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On 8/24/2019 at 7:53 PM, anime52k8 said:

The thing is, while the battery part is extremely stupid for multiple reasons, what bothers me even more is the idea that the grand strategy to stop the machines was to globally block out the sun. The entire military and political leadership of the world agrees on this plan and not a single person notices that blocking out the sun would defiantly CAUSE THE ENTIRE HUMAN POPULATION TO STARVE. No sun=no plant life; no plants=no herbivores; no herbivores=no carnivores. Meanwhile, the machines run on electricity. Even if they were 100% dependent on solar power (which is really unlikely), it wouldn't be hard for them to convert over to an alternate source of power (that isn't human bodies). If anything, the lack of sun makes using humans for anything more problematic since you have to produce enough nutrients to sustain your human population in a world where you can't grow anything.

Another, smaller thing that really bugs me: why are the machines all vulnerable to EMPs in the movies but were apparently unaffected by the EMP effects of being continuously bombarded by the entire worlds stockpile of nuclear weapons?

Ultimately, everything in Zion (including the archives) was provided by the machines. Zion itself was provided as a tool to keep the Matrix running. Humanity didn't accept digital perfection, rebelled against it and needed a "rebel base" to launch ops into The Matrix from. Those ops kept insurgents happy in their way.

The machines were left intentionally vulnerable to EMP's to give the resistence a belief that they had a chance of winning.

The battery system & Matrix were the Machines way of keeping humanity scaled back, but still human. More to the point, while some machines hated humans, not "all" machines hated humanity. The Matrix was a compromise to keep humanity under control with the illusion of freedom. The battery system a "somewhat" clean form of power & symbiosis.

All an elaborate tool to maintain equalibrium.

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8 hours ago, Keith said:

Ultimately, everything in Zion (including the archives) was provided by the machines. Zion itself was provided as a tool to keep the Matrix running. Humanity didn't accept digital perfection, rebelled against it and needed a "rebel base" to launch ops into The Matrix from. Those ops kept insurgents happy in their way.

The machines were left intentionally vulnerable to EMP's to give the resistence a belief that they had a chance of winning.

The battery system & Matrix were the Machines way of keeping humanity scaled back, but still human. More to the point, while some machines hated humans, not "all" machines hated humanity. The Matrix was a compromise to keep humanity under control with the illusion of freedom. The battery system a "somewhat" clean form of power & symbiosis.

All an elaborate tool to maintain equalibrium.

Nicely put.  Any bit of fiction crumbles once you pick its basic premise apart.

Some premises are easier to accept or suspend disbelief on than others.

I, for example, have a hard time accepting the His Dark Materials series and yet it is about to get a reboot.

I don't necessarily hate it, but don't really enjoy it or see what others get from it, and yet I can't help but get sucked in by the "dialog" about symbiosis of machines of man in the Matrix.

Edited by Mazinger
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18 minutes ago, badboy00z said:

Or SH Figuarts. The lack of good Matrix figures is surprising.

A buddy of mine has a few of the McFarlane figs.  The sculpt is pretty good as is the case with most of the Spawn stuff, but there's little to no articulation.

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On 8/24/2019 at 10:53 PM, anime52k8 said:

The thing is, while the battery part is extremely stupid for multiple reasons

A bad idea that was arrived at, IIRC, because the studio believed that general audiences wouldn't understand the Wachowskis original concept that the machines were networking the brains of their captive human population together in order to use them as wetware processors to augment their own computing power.  Server farms, rather than power plants.  If all you needed humans for was thermal energy generation, it'd be a lot easier to lobotomize them at birth.

 

On 8/24/2019 at 10:53 PM, anime52k8 said:

what bothers me even more is the idea that the grand strategy to stop the machines was to globally block out the sun. The entire military and political leadership of the world agrees on this plan and not a single person notices that blocking out the sun would defiantly CAUSE THE ENTIRE HUMAN POPULATION TO STARVE. No sun=no plant life; no plants=no herbivores; no herbivores=no carnivores.

Not to mention it'd render the planet nearly uninhabitable in the short term, and actually uninhabitable long term with no photosynthesis going on to replenish atmospheric oxygen... accumulation of pollution and oxygen depletion would gradually turn the planet into a barren wasteland covered in unbreathable toxic smog.

 

Come to that, a new Matrix sequel is going to be set in a pretty grim place unless it takes place in the actual Matrix.  Who wants to be the slumlord of craphole county living out on the toxic, radioactive wasteland leftover from the war with the machines?

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4 hours ago, Mazinger said:

I, for example, have a hard time accepting the His Dark Materials series and yet it is about to get a reboot.

I actually just watched  Mortal Engines the other night; for a totally nonsense premise it was actually pretty fun.

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5 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

A bad idea that was arrived at, IIRC, because the studio believed that general audiences wouldn't understand the Wachowskis original concept that the machines were networking the brains of their captive human population together in order to use them as wetware processors to augment their own computing power.  Server farms, rather than power plants.  If all you needed humans for was thermal energy generation, it'd be a lot easier to lobotomize them at birth.

...snip...

I would have much rather preferred this than the stupid battery idea. And it's more stupid for the 'studio' to not understand that general audiences could grasp that the humans in the movie were being used basically as extra RAM space or organic USBs.

 

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1 hour ago, Thom said:

I would have much rather preferred this than the stupid battery idea. And it's more stupid for the 'studio' to not understand that general audiences could grasp that the humans in the movie were being used basically as extra RAM space or organic USBs.

You mean organic floppies. It was 1999, the flash drive wasn't going to come out for another year(and wouldn't be generally relevant for a few more).

 

I understand the studio's attitude. In the context of the time, computers were only just barely starting to become mainstream. Expecting anyone but nerds to understand the original concept was a dicey proposition. It is only in hindsight that the decision looks incredibly stupid.

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  • azrael changed the title to The Matrix Resurrections (What is The Matrix 4?)

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