Bandai 1/60 DX Chogokin Macross Plus YF-21

[26662]

2 hours ago, aurance said:

This is the weirdest fandom where people can say “I don’t totally love it, I’ll only get two.” 😛

But seriously, YF-21 is my favorite Valkyrie design, but this, just no. Yamato needed beefier legs, but the rest looked perfect to me. The DX has the legs… but is off in so many more ways. The trade off is not worth it.

Guilty as charged.  I was away from the hobby for a very long time because of school, work, finances, etc. and missed out.  I checked-in periodically at Macross World, The Valkyrie Exchange, etc., but I didn't allow myself to purchase anything.  My life could (would?) have been much more fulfilled during that stretch of time if I'd embraced my passions.  I'm tired of missing out so now I pretty much buy 2 of everything just to experience it.  Even "crappy" figures can be fulfilling/fun.  I try to avoid reselling even the POC figures just because my (dis)satisfaction with a figure may change over time, but having a second figure kept MISB helps ensure that I at least break even if I decide to sell.

Edited February 1 by 26662
Clarity

[wsna]

2 hours ago, aurance said:

This is the weirdest fandom where people can say “I don’t totally love it, I’ll only get two.” 😛

But seriously, YF-21 is my favorite Valkyrie design, but this, just no. Yamato needed beefier legs, but the rest looked perfect to me. The DX has the legs… but is off in so many more ways. The trade off is not worth it.

I agree about the Yamato’s legs being a bit on the skinny side. Looking back at the many model/toy iterations of the VF-1, I think it’s going to be a long while until they get the right “comprise” for a YF-21 that is a perfect and proportional transform. I would hold out in some hope that Bandai DX version would revisit and refine those landing gears but it isn’t a complete deal killer. The overall engineering and execution is likely going to be better than the Yamato, wouldn’t you say?

[spacemanoeuvres]

On 1/31/2024 at 4:18 AM, Reïvaj said:

Holly crab!!!

Jimminy Christmas!!!

I don’t totally love it…glad I only got two 😂 

Maybe I can swap the legs between the Yamato and DX hehe

Edited February 1 by spacemanoeuvres

[sh9000]

Overall I still love it and got two.

This is a sweet Gerwalk pose.

[Slave IV]

1 hour ago, sh9000 said:

Overall I still love it and got two.

This is a sweet Gerwalk pose.

Yep, I already plan to have mine displayed in Gerwalk mode most of the time. Gerwalk is my favorite mode overall for most walks anyways since it is one of the main things that made Macross mechs stand out to me in the first place.

[spacemanoeuvres]

3 hours ago, sh9000 said:

Overall I still love it and got two.

This is a sweet Gerwalk pose.

Very nice.
I typically display in fighter mode so I’m disappointed in the smaller nose section. 

[no3Ljm]

11 hours ago, wsna said:

The overall over-engineering and over-execution Bandai is known for is likely going to be better than the Yamato, wouldn’t you say?

Fixed for yah.  

But to answer the question, for me, yes it might. But I still like the decisions Yamato made when in comes to design for not deviating too much from the source in spite of having skinny legs. 

[M'Kyuun]

2 hours ago, no3Ljm said:

Fixed for yah.  

But to answer the question, for me, yes it might. But I still like the decisions Yamato made when in comes to design for not deviating too much from the source in spite of having skinny legs. 

The skinny legs were the only detractor, especially if you're a battroid guy like me. In all other respects, it was about as perfect as a fully transformable YF-21 can be.

[Mog]

* A non-thicc side profile in battroid;

* Hipguards that actually the match the length of the FP’s.

* A Gerwalk mode that actually has the ventral vents on the underside.

* An actual rotating cockpit gimmick that doesn’t require parts-forming.

* A sleek, skinny fighter mode.

. . . Yeah, I’m sticking with the 1/60 Yamato.

[Mommar]

6 hours ago, Slave IV said:

Yep, I already plan to have mine displayed in Gerwalk mode most of the time. Gerwalk is my favorite mode overall for most walks anyways since it is one of the main things that made Macross mechs stand out to me in the first place.

Oh, you're the other guy who likes Gerwalk!?  I thought I was alone.

[no3Ljm]

1 hour ago, Mommar said:

Oh, you're the other guy who likes Gerwalk!?  I thought I was alone.

I'm with you guys. I love GA-OH-KU! It's what makes Macross -- MACROSS.  

[Slave IV]

2 hours ago, Mommar said:

Oh, you're the other guy who likes Gerwalk!?  I thought I was alone.

 

8 minutes ago, no3Ljm said:

I'm with you guys. I love GA-OH-KU! It's what makes Macross -- MACROSS.  

Yeah, it’s the perfect thing. Can’t decide between Fighter or Battroid mode? Why not both? It really is the single best thing about Macross among many other great things. 

[MKT]

On 2/1/2024 at 1:47 AM, Slave IV said:

Panel Formers are the WORST! One of the things that always put Macross over Transformers for me was the "realistic" transformations that at least had some consideration for how something like that would work in the real world. The way most Transformers, especially MP style toys are these days, I don't even want them and have pretty much stopped buying them completely because of the recent Panel madness going on. It's such a cop out...anything can transform into anything if you have endless folding to force it into whatever shape you want.

They are overcomplicated these days and are not very fun to transform anymore, but then again there doesn't seem to be much way around that to get the screen accuracy of both robot & alt modes. Blame it on the original character designers who didn't work out realistic transformations, so hats off to the current toy designers being able to pull it off. The good thing is that there are so many companies tackling the same characters with each company's own unique way of transformation so we get to pick & choose the one that's to our taste based on screen accuracy, sculpt, ease of transformation & handling, build & robustness.

But in the end we choose the better solution - just get more Macross instead. 

 

On 2/1/2024 at 4:34 AM, rematron said:

Panel Formers make sense to me in the world of Transformers because those guys are metal-based aliens that sort of morph from one form to another, right? But it doesn't seem appropriate in Macross because, how would that work in real life engineering? Maybe the more complicated panel formers are appealing to collectors who also appreciate a good 3D puzzle.  

I like this head-canon..  although Transformers alt modes are supposed to look like real-life objects, the transformation process doesn't have to be.

 

On 2/1/2024 at 11:20 AM, seti88 said:

Who is the superstar product designer who came out with that whole transforming sequence?  Bandai needs to harness his '"talent" 🤪😄

And transforming it back....hmm i dont think you would want to... 

seriously impressive tho but nuts! I like the pilot seat transforming into the head gimmick ...i wonder if that would work in macross..🤣

Rewatching it now, I realize that every single part of the toy transforms, except for the cockpit canopy.  As in title of the video, the designer is Black Apple, somewhat of a well known (and infamous, depending on one's view) name in the 3rd party movie-TF toy scene.

There's some discussion of this toy in the TF thread.

 

  

Edited February 2 by MKT

[MKT]

I so happen to be messing with the Yammie VF-22 lately, and am now wondering if Bandai does make one, how will they handle the Fighter belly proportions? Their YF-21 is already looking pretty generous in that area, so for the VF-22....... 🙈

[PointBlankSniper]

I will look past all the flaws if they manage to make the 22 perfect transformation, including the internally stowed gunpods. I imagine since there is no need for the fast pack belly armor, that material thickness would be recovered as free space to make the integral belly plates just barely clear the floor on landing gears without using those partsforming dummy gunpods. I won't complain even if it looks like drooping tumors if they actually pull it off. I'm sure that would make for some horrifically malformed skirts in battroid though rofl.

[Mommar]

I still think for the 21/22 the only way to really pull it off and improve over the Yammie is to basically have the thing in delimit mode all the time with a plate that covers the area for fighter and would work for internal gun pods on the 22.  Then swap out beefy legs for the other two modes.  Since delimit mode already jettisons the internals like the legs it's a relatively acceptable compromise on a "perfect transformation" that is physically impossible.

[Mog]

So basically, Eugimon’s Omega Pants(TM)? 

[Mommar]

2 hours ago, Mog said:

So basically, Eugimon’s Omega Pants(TM)? 

I don't know what you're referring to.

[Mog]

WAY BACK when Yamato first showed the prototype for their 1/60 YF-21, there were some complaints about how skinny the legs were.

One of the old posters here (Eugimon) suggested that add-on parts be placed on the legs to make them look thicker for battroid mode.  

Someone else dubbed the idea Omega Pants (for obvious reasons), the name evolved to become “Eugimon’s Omega Pants,” and a running joke/meme was added to our message board that day.

 

[m0n5t3r]

 These 3 images made me cancel the $260 preorder I made for this, which I made mainly due to FOMO. Just can't get over these two main flaws. Can't be bothered trying to sell it if I end up not wanting it. I've been content with my YF-21 Yamatos for the past 15 years. What's another 15...

[Lolicon]

1 hour ago, m0n5t3r said:

 These 3 images made me cancel the $260 preorder I made for this, which I made mainly due to FOMO. Just can't get over these two main flaws. Can't be bothered trying to sell it if I end up not wanting it. I've been content with my YF-21 Yamatos for the past 15 years. What's another 15...

Yeah, unless fighter mode somehow miraculously looks better in hand, this one is going to be in battroid mode most of the time. Which is exactly the same thing I did with the DX 19. 

When it comes to fighter, Yarcadia is still king. 

[aurance]

On 2/1/2024 at 10:56 PM, Mommar said:

Oh, you're the other guy who likes Gerwalk!?  I thought I was alone.

Naw, I love Gerwalk.

[Raikkonen]

On 2/2/2024 at 7:54 AM, no3Ljm said:

I'm with you guys. I love GA-OH-KU! It's what makes Macross -- MACROSS.  

On 2/3/2024 at 8:24 AM, aurance said:

Naw, I love Gerwalk.

On 2/2/2024 at 5:56 AM, Mommar said:

Oh, you're the other guy who likes Gerwalk!?  I thought I was alone.

I'm 90% Gerwalk guy too, the rest is between battroid and plane depending on the day's mood. 

 

On 2/3/2024 at 2:02 AM, m0n5t3r said:

 These 3 images made me cancel the $260 preorder I made for this, which I made mainly due to FOMO. Just can't get over these two main flaws. Can't be bothered trying to sell it if I end up not wanting it. I've been content with my YF-21 Yamatos for the past 15 years. What's another 15...

I congratulate you for this decision. Been there many times where my love for a certain character/valk/diecast, supersedes that of a half baked collectable. 

And utterly agree about these 3 shots.

Considering how the parts-forming cheating HG is likely the best ever to capture the line art, for almost $300 without shipping, Bandai should have just used the Yamato as a base to tweak in some improvements onto their DX instead of going completely off the rails. 

Edited February 4 by Raikkonen

[no3Ljm]

On 2/2/2024 at 4:02 PM, m0n5t3r said:

 These 3 images made me cancel the $260 preorder I made for this, which I made mainly due to FOMO. Just can't get over these two main flaws. Can't be bothered trying to sell it if I end up not wanting it. I've been content with my YF-21 Yamatos for the past 15 years. What's another 15...

*images snipped*

9 hours ago, Raikkonen said:

I congratulate you for this decision. Been there many times where my love for a certain character/valk/diecast, supersedes that of a half baked collectable. 

And utterly agree about these 3 shots.

Considering how the parts-forming cheating HG is likely the best ever to capture the line art, for almost $300 without shipping, Bandai should have just used the Yamato as a base to tweak in some improvements onto their DX instead of going completely off the rails. 

I'm in the same boat to be honest. I'm really not that happy with Bandai's take on the design and engineering. I do like (not love) how it looks in Gerwalk though. But then, it's not enough for me esp for the price it's asking. The only reason for me to get it is to pair it with the DX YF-19. Would that be enough reason esp for the price? I think not. But it's the only one available so I'm stuck in that reasoning. 

On 2/2/2024 at 5:10 PM, Lolicon said:

Yeah, unless fighter mode somehow miraculously looks better in hand, this one is going to be in battroid mode most of the time. Which is exactly the same thing I did with the DX 19. 

When it comes to fighter, Yarcadia is still king. 

I share this sentiment and what I'm planning to do. And agreed. Yamato did good on their YF-21 Fighter profile.  

 

Lastly. Yes, we never know once we have it on hand. Because as part of this forum -- we criticized everything when things gets announced. And when it gets released and end up loving it, that it's the 'best engineered Valkyrie out there', yada yada. So yeah. 

[rematron]

I’m also a big fan of Gerwalk and agree that it’s a big part of what makes Macross. I also like to pose Valks in Gerwalk but with the arms still stowed so that the Valk looks like a bird of prey. Is there a name for that mode?

Edited February 5 by rematron

[Anasazi37]

2 hours ago, no3Ljm said:

I share this sentiment and what I'm planning to do. And agreed. Yamato did good on their YF-21 Fighter profile.  

My DX is going to be in Battroid mode permanently, precisely because I want to keep my Yamato in Fighter mode permanently due to its superior profile.

[borgified]

Anyone here will dare try Pengriod mode upon getting the DX 21 in hand? Someone has got to do it eventually. 🤣

[Mog]

43 minutes ago, rematron said:

I’m also big fan of Gerwalk and agree that it’s a big part of what makes Macross. I also like to pose Valks is Gerwalk but with the arms still stowed so that the Valk looks like a bird of prey. Is there a name for that mode?

I always thought we all agreed that that particular mode is referred to as "Half-Gerwalk."

[no3Ljm]

1 hour ago, rematron said:

I’m also a big fan of Gerwalk and agree that it’s a big part of what makes Macross. I also like to pose Valks in Gerwalk but with the arms still stowed so that the Valk looks like a bird of prey. Is there a name for that mode?

1 hour ago, Mog said:

I always thought we all agreed that that particular mode is referred to as "Half-Gerwalk."

Or "VTOL" mode?  

[no3Ljm]

1 hour ago, Anasazi37 said:

My DX is going to be in Battroid mode permanently, precisely because I want to keep my Yamato in Fighter mode permanently due to its superior profile.

 

1 hour ago, borgified said:

Anyone here will dare try Pengriod mode upon getting the DX 21 in hand? Someone has got to do it eventually. 🤣

And that someone is you eventually. Can't wait to see it. 

[Mog]

1 hour ago, no3Ljm said:

Or "VTOL" mode?  

Officially, it’s called “Hikaru Getting Misa the Hell Outta Alaska Base” mode.

[Raikkonen]

7 hours ago, Mog said:

Officially, it’s called “Hikaru Getting Misa the Hell Outta Alaska Base” mode.

For those general v1 Yamato owners, the final painful step before gerwalk 🤣

[M'Kyuun]

I get the feeling that this is going to be one of those divisive toys that inspires conversation for years to come. Usually once POs come and go, the chatter kinda dies off as we wait, only to pick back up when toys start arriving and folks are anxious to get their views and reviews out there. I think the long absence of a new YF-21, especially since Bandai's releases of the VF-19 Advance and their YF-19 (I have the former) left a bit of a void for want of Isamu's nemesis along with the prospect of better battroid proportions. YMMV concerning that regard (I prefer the thicker legs, but that backpack and its distance from the figure's back have me concerned about stability and durability over time). I hope it turns out to be a good toy overall, but right out the gate, I don't think it's as refined as many of us would have hoped. Yamato created a toy that continues to be hard to beat with the exception of its too-skinny legs and wobbly hip joints, but in all other respects, a nigh perfect transforming toy of a very difficult valk to realize. I'd be interested to see them take a second crack, especially if they can solve the skinny leg problem.

[jenius]

As much as I'm looking forward to this, I am REALLY looking forward to the renewal version five years from now. 

[Mog]

If someone were to improve upon the 1/60 Yammy, they could easily update the elbow articulation without much fuss. 

They would need to figure out a way to make the joints for the hips and the hip-guards stronger.

In order to keep the skinny fighter profile, someone would have to figure out a way to have the legs expand width-wise for Gerwalk/battroid and collapse for fighter mode.  Might have to do some panel-folding to allow the legs to be "thickened."  Also possibly hollow out the bellyplates and underside of the backpack a bit to make a little extra room too.

The tabs on the bellyplates can also be a bit of pain to lock into place for fighter mode.  But the guns can be held on the bellyplates without swapping the actual guns out, and there's a minor cheat to keep the guns held on the FP's.

Lastly a spring and strut could be added to keep the rear landing gears from collapsing when rolling the fighter backwards (at least the landing gear were already painted white before ).

So, there are fixes and improvements that can be made.  But for a 15+ old design, the 1/60 Yammy still holds up well in all three modes.