Star Trek Into Darkness, in theaters May 17, 2013

[Duke Togo]

Am I the only one that wondered where ESD was the entire time they were fighting by the Moon or during their plummet?

I have no idea what ESD is, but I'm going to say no, you aren't.

[CoreyD]

I think he means Earth Space Dock.

[TehPW]

Am I the only one that wondered where ESD was the entire time they were fighting by the Moon or during their plummet?

your not the only one... or better yet, why did no other Star Fleet vessels (shuttles, fighters, the one Newton-class ship seen still there when JJ-ENT leaves for Kronos) investigate the ship-to-ship fight happening in the neighberhood? so many stupid wrongs in that film. Funny too. apparently Simon Peg told folks FO about how shitty STID was... i posted that maybe he was defending it so to avoid any Meagan Fox-like occurances before JJST3 starts filming?

[myk]

We brought that up earlier in this thread, and JJ's 'Trek is guilty of the "absent Starfleet" in the first movie as well. In the beginning of the first movie there are ships and spacedocks all over the place, but later in the movie and most notably in the second one it seems like the Enterprise is the only ship in the whole fleet...

[mecha2241]

This isn't something new. How many of the other movies or TV episodes is it the case where the Enterprise is the only ship in the area? That's been going since the original series, even when the story takes place near Earth. It's pretty lazy to use that for an exscuse for what's wrong with the new movies.

[hutch]

We brought that up earlier in this thread, and JJ's 'Trek is guilty of the "absent Starfleet" in the first movie as well. In the beginning of the first movie there are ships and spacedocks all over the place, but later in the movie and most notably in the second one it seems like the Enterprise is the only ship in the whole fleet...

Actually didn't like half of starfleet get blown up early in the first one and the remnants were all in the "Lorentian" (sp?) system or something?

[Dobber]

This isn't something new. How many of the other movies or TV episodes is it the case where the Enterprise is the only ship in the area? That's been going since the original series, even when the story takes place near Earth. It's pretty lazy to use that for an exscuse for what's wrong with the new movies.

Agreed.

[Dynaman]

Actually didn't like half of starfleet get blown up early in the first one and the remnants were all in the "Lorentian" (sp?) system or something?

Yup - and the only other time they explain why the big E has to go and no one else can is Star Trek 5, at least among all its other faults they can say they took care of that problem.

[CoreyD]

I belIeve that was also the excuse with the ent b in generations.

[myk]

This isn't something new. How many of the other movies or TV episodes is it the case where the Enterprise is the only ship in the area? That's been going since the original series, even when the story takes place near Earth. It's pretty lazy to use that for an exscuse for what's wrong with the new movies.

I could understand that in a television series, especially like TNG where money and time were as tight as Counselor Troi's outfits, but in a movie there's no reason why they couldn't have had just a coupla' ships loitering around. I mean, they had them just 30 minutes ago-where did they all go to?

[ErikElvis]

well considering all of the captains and first officers in the region were assembled in that room and who knows how many were killed there didnt seem to be that many ships around. And maybe without captains they were docked on the other side of Earth?!?!

[Keith]

Not having a capaltain or first officer wasn't a problem for the Enterprise...

[mikeszekely]

Nice, but what's the Prometheus and Intrepid doing in there?

Not just that, but that's not the Enterprise (or the Vengeance). That's the Excalibur-class from Star Trek Online. Looks like this wallpaper is some kind of photoshop of Into Darkness and STO art.

Am I the only one that wondered where ESD was the entire time they were fighting by the Moon or during their plummet?

No, and that's not the only thing that bugged me. There's the fact that Qo'noS had an exploded moon orbiting it... granted, they could have taken artistic license and just decided Qo'noS has an exploded moon, but if it was meant to be Praxis, well, I don't see how changes to the timeline would have exploded it 34 years early.

And they make a big deal about how they can't kill Khan, because they need his blood to save Kirk. They do realize they have 72 other frozen supermen, right?

And if I can be super nitpicky, Khan threatens to shoot Enterprise's life support systems, which he identifies as being "behind the aft nacelle." That flat out doesn't make sense. "Aft" means "towards the stern," or rear. Enterprise doesn't have an aft nacelle; it has a port nacelle and a starboard nacelle, and both nacelles are aft of the saucer, but there is no aft nacelle. He might have meant aft of the nacelle pylons, or behind the nacelle pylons, but that's not what he said. And even if he did say that, that would mean that life support for the entire ship is in the main shuttle bay.

Oh, and Bone's says the guy in the torpedo was 300 years old, and Khan claimed to be sleeping for centuries. So the guy in the tube was born in 1959? Really?

There's some other stuff about the Abram's-verse that seem a tad off to me, too. Like, the Narada destroyed the Kelvin in 2233. In the regular timeline, the Constitution-class was done, the Enterprise was built, and Robert April was serving as captain by 2245. I guess the Narada's attack might have changed Starfleet's plans a bit, but so drastically that the Enterprise isn't finished until 2258?

[myk]

Not just that, but that's not the Enterprise (or the Vengeance). That's the Excalibur-class from Star Trek Online. Looks like this wallpaper is some kind of photoshop of Into Darkness and STO art.

No, and that's not the only thing that bugged me. There's the fact that Qo'noS had an exploded moon orbiting it... granted, they could have taken artistic license and just decided Qo'noS has an exploded moon, but if it was meant to be Praxis, well, I don't see how changes to the timeline would have exploded it 34 years early.

And they make a big deal about how they can't kill Khan, because they need his blood to save Kirk. They do realize they have 72 other frozen supermen, right?

And if I can be super nitpicky, Khan threatens to shoot Enterprise's life support systems, which he identifies as being "behind the aft nacelle." That flat out doesn't make sense. "Aft" means "towards the stern," or rear. Enterprise doesn't have an aft nacelle; it has a port nacelle and a starboard nacelle, and both nacelles are aft of the saucer, but there is no aft nacelle. He might have meant aft of the nacelle pylons, or behind the nacelle pylons, but that's not what he said. And even if he did say that, that would mean that life support for the entire ship is in the main shuttle bay.

Oh, and Bone's says the guy in the torpedo was 300 years old, and Khan claimed to be sleeping for centuries. So the guy in the tube was born in 1959? Really?

There's some other stuff about the Abram's-verse that seem a tad off to me, too. Like, the Narada destroyed the Kelvin in 2233. In the regular timeline, the Constitution-class was done, the Enterprise was built, and Robert April was serving as captain by 2245. I guess the Narada's attack might have changed Starfleet's plans a bit, but so drastically that the Enterprise isn't finished until 2258?

All true. I just may have to turn my copy of 'Darkness into a table coaster like Redline...

[UN Spacy]

I've only seen one or two cases in Star Trek where the hero ship wasn't the ONLY starship in the area.

TWICE....First Contact movie and Voyager's End Game both battles took place in the Solar System. LOL.

My Amazon Phaser Edition should be arriving tomorrow.

Edited September 12, 2013 by UN Spacy

[myk]

I've only seen one or two cases in Star Trek where the hero ship wasn't the ONLY starship in the area.

TWICE....First Contact movie and Voyager's End Game both battles took place in the Solar System. LOL.

My Amazon Phaser Edition should be arriving tomorrow.

Right about that. Ah well. At least the new BSG gives us plenty of fleet porn...

[azrael]

And they make a big deal about how they can't kill Khan, because they need his blood to save Kirk. They do realize they have 72 other frozen supermen, right?

Ah, I just read something about that this week. McCoy didn't know how the other popsicles' blood would work. Since he already tried Khan's blood on the Tribble, he had a working example. So why risk with the others' blood and just use Khan's. Yeah, that part needed explaining within the movie and I'm not happy that it had to come as a extra bit of info after the fact.

Link

Oh, and Bone's says the guy in the torpedo was 300 years old, and Khan claimed to be sleeping for centuries. So the guy in the tube was born in 1959? Really?

Century = 100 years. 300 years > 1 century. So sleeping for "centuries" is semantically correct. Bear in mind they could have rounded up the number but "centuries" is technically correct.

[mikeszekely]

Ah, I just read something about that this week. McCoy didn't know how the other popsicles' blood would work. Since he already tried Khan's blood on the Tribble, he had a working example. So why risk with the others' blood and just use Khan's. Yeah, that part needed explaining within the movie and I'm not happy that it had to come as a extra bit of info after the fact.

Link

Fair enough.

Century = 100 years. 300 years > 1 century. So sleeping for "centuries" is semantically correct. Bear in mind they could have rounded up the number but "centuries" is technically correct.

Yes, 300 years is more than one century. That's not the problem; my issue was that for a tube buy to be 300, he'd have to have been born by 1959. Upon reflection, though, that might actually be probable. My problem was that I was thinking of Khan's war as being World War III, which we know was just winding down at the time of first contact in 2063. But that's incorrect, his war conflict was the Eugenics War, and The Wrath of Khan and the original series episode Space Seed actually but the Eugenics War in the 1990's. The augments were, in fact, supposed to have been created in the 1950s. So I withdraw this criticism entirely.

I stand by my other gripes, though, and would like to add another to the mix. How'd Khan suddenly turn into a white guy?

EDIT: Come to think of it, where'd Marcus even find Khan at? The departure of the Botany Bay was well before the timeline would have been changed. Even if I assume that Marcus was already an Admiral capable of directing Starfleet resources to look for the Botany Bay at the time the Narada destroyed the Kelvin, and he started such a search at that time, it seems a little incredible to believe that he'd find a ship that left Earth over 250 years earlier with no apparent destination in even 25 years. They wouldn't have known the velocity of the Botany Bay, either, just that it was less than C. Even if they could guess that it was around 1/2 C (which seems reasonable, since it was discovered in the original timeline in the same sector as Risa, which is supposed to be around 90 light years from Earth). Not knowing the direction, they'd have to use Earth as a starting point and assume that it could be in any direction; in other words, they'd have to search a sphere with Earth as the center, and at 1/2 C you'd have a maximum radius of about 130 light years. Volume = 4/3*pi*the radius cubed, so 1.3333*3.1415*2,197,000 = 9,202,270.6042. Nearly a billion cubic light years of space to search to find one tiny ship.

Edited September 13, 2013 by mikeszekely

[Kelsain]

The thing about beating someone to death:

There's still blood left in the body.

Despite all these problems, I found STID entertaining. The real problem is that it's indicative of the industry. The entertainment doesn't stand up to any scrutiny once the ride is over. Movie execs don't care about putting out enduring films, just flashy enough to get you in there opening weekend.

And Ryan Church designs EVERYTHING.

[myk]

The thing about beating someone to death:

There's still blood left in the body.

Despite all these problems, I found STID entertaining. The real problem is that it's indicative of the industry. The entertainment doesn't stand up to any scrutiny once the ride is over. Movie execs don't care about putting out enduring films, just flashy enough to get you in there opening weekend.

And Ryan Church designs EVERYTHING.

Yeah that about sums it up. They're not concerned about the aftermath, just getting us into the theater in the first place; they also know we'll keep coming back for more, regardless of how much we complain...

[Kelsain]

Fortunately, having 2 kids now, I have to be much more selective about which movies I'll see at the theaters. At least until they're old enough to drag me to see some awful things like the Smurfs or the Oogieloves. Oh, I hope I can impart some decent taste on these two!

[TehPW]

Agreed.

I agrre that being the only ship in the sector is a narative gimmick constantly used in every film. Still, only one ship was in town when the E left for Kronos... no shuttles? no fighters? even in Teh Best of Both Worlds, they had those Red October/Perimeter Defence Ships that had like 3 seconds of film life. So again, nothing at all to investigate wtf going on behind the moon?

They already established that they litterally crap out shuttles for each ship, given the new size of each JJ-Trek ship's secondary hulls (2, in the case of the Newtown-class). So JJ being too lazy to show the Vengence blasting a few investigative Dead-Shirts?

[myk]

Fortunately, having 2 kids now, I have to be much more selective about which movies I'll see at the theaters. At least until they're old enough to drag me to see some awful things like the Smurfs or the Oogieloves. Oh, I hope I can impart some decent taste on these two!

Eh, when kids these days have movies like "Spring Breakers" as brain fodder it's usually ME that's taken for a surprise or two...

[Duke Togo]

Eh, when kids these days have movies like "Spring Breakers" as brain fodder it's usually ME that's taken for a surprise or two...

Definitely NOT a kids movie, unless that was some sly reference to Korine's first film.

Edited September 13, 2013 by Duke Togo

[Mommar]

I've only seen one or two cases in Star Trek where the hero ship wasn't the ONLY starship in the area.

TWICE....First Contact movie and Voyager's End Game both battles took place in the Solar System. LOL.

My Amazon Phaser Edition should be arriving tomorrow.

You must be forgetting the entire Dominion War storyline in DS9 then. They had several different episodes with entire fleets of ships engaged with each other. I especially remember the Defiant leading the charged flanked by some Galaxies, and a much larger force in tow. Hell, on of the Galaxy-class vessels pulled a barrel-roll (which was cheesy.)

[derex3592]

Wasn't one of the DS-9 war episodes the most expensive Star Trek TV episodes ever produced??? Thought I remember reading that somewhere a long time ago. I remember thinking it was pretty damn awesome the first time I saw it.

[myk]

There were a lot of ships-all-over-the-place battles in the DS9 during the later part of the series; great stuff, especially seeing my beautiful big doll the Galaxy class pulling off jaw-dropping aerobatics against the Dominion, lol...

[lechuck]

Yeah the DS9 Dominion battles and seeing so many Galaxy-classes (my favourite) was great.

Although I always questioned why they sent them in with the main saucer and not just the battle section.

[mecha2241]

Yeah the DS9 Dominion battles and seeing so many Galaxy-classes (my favourite) was great.

Although I always questioned why they sent them in with the main saucer and not just the battle section.

Considering the main phaser arrays were on the saucer it make sense to keep them combined. I doubt the Galaxy-class ships fight in the Dominion War had any civvies on them anyway.

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

this is an interesting bit (from polygon) that i was going to post in the game thread but also talks about the relationship between his film.

Abrams says the game arguably hurt the Movie "Into Darkness" at about 1:06

Edited September 14, 2013 by davidwhangchoi

[Atharun]

DS9 is my all time favorite Trek series. Always wondered what happened to Federation ship shields in those fights though. One energy type shot and the ships had a hole in them.

Anyway, the Gorn comment Bones makes...was it part of the game's storyline?

[myk]

Yeah the DS9 Dominion battles and seeing so many Galaxy-classes (my favourite) was great.

Although I always questioned why they sent them in with the main saucer and not just the battle section.

Finally, another Galaxy class fan! I especially loved the multiple phaser beams coming out of the same phaser strip to converge on one target-very cool. I just wish they could've put in just ONE or maybe even TWO Sovereign class ships in those battles, from time to time...

[miles316]

DS9 is my all time favorite Trek series. Always wondered what happened to Federation ship shields in those fights though. One energy type shot and the ships had a hole in them.

Anyway, the Gorn comment Bones makes...was it part of the game's storyline?

Are you talking about the fight with the Cardasian weapons platforms.

[Renato]

Definitely NOT a kids movie, unless that was some sly reference to Korine's first film.

Heh, Nice one.

[JetJockey]

I finally saw it.


Short Review - Wrath of Khan fans need not see this “movie.”


Long Review - What a mess. For some strange reason Into Darkness is rated a bit higher on IMDB than Wrath of Khan too. I knew I wasn’t going to like this movie because I’m a fan of Wrath of Khan. I just didn’t know how much they were going to rip off or attempt to ruin by adding their “twist.” I thought they created the alternate timeline to tell new stories. Lying to sell your movie is never a good thing either. In fact, I think the water scene shown in the trailers and in the opening was just a red herring too. Whatever you want to call this sequel, alternate universe, re-imagining, retelling, remake. All this shows is a lack of respect and understanding of one of the best sci-fi movies ever and easily the best Star Trek movie.

I don’t get how a person who is even the slightest bit of a Wrath of Khan fan can like this new version. Perhaps you have to be in the mind set for it. Kind of like how I gave the first Mission: Impossible movie a pass and thought it was good at the time even though I knew something was wrong with it because they made Phelps a traitor. Now I have no interest in watching the movie ever again after catching some of the original Mission: Impossible shows on late night TV.

Let’s start with the alternate universe Khan. He doesn’t have any memorable lines like in Wrath of Khan. Lines like “where’s the override” and “time is a luxury you don’t have.” Both of which I still use to this day. The lines about chasing Kirk around the moons of Nibia. Even something as simple as how Khan says “Aft torpedoes fire!” And of course his final lines. All of this is classic stuff. Even Quentin Tarantino put that Klingon proverb bit at the beginning of Kill Bill. Also, gone is Khan’s arrogant superiority. Even when things were bad he had it. That was part of his character. Benicio del Toro was right to get out of this remake. And I guess once he bailed the casting just got anyone and sold it as a modern day terrorism story. Even though the change of timeline from the first movie did not effect Khan’s background. So he should look the same as the first movie changed stuff beginning around the birth of Kirk not the late 1990s which I believe was when Khan left Earth. Khan is nothing but a generic terrorist now. Which misses the point of his character entirely. He wasn’t a bad guy. All you have to do is watch the TV episode to understand that. How Kirk and others had admiration for Khan for what he was attempting to do. Although he went about trying to unify Earth by force. This movie is a retread of the first movie once again with the whole revenge villain. It’s not Benedict Cumberbatch’s fault that his Khan isn’t that good. The brig scene felt the closest to the real Khan. But what made Khan cool originally probably had a lot to do with Ricardo Montalban. He was just one of those actors that could create a compelling character. Also I guess Starfleet doesn’t have anyone interested in the slightest bit of history in this new version. As no one recognizes Khan and reboot Spock doesn’t even do any research on him but calls the original Spock to ask.

And Spock is an action character now. Not that action is a bad thing. But he’s almost a superhero in this movie. Khan and Spock might as well be prequel Jedi at this point. I’m sure reboot Spock asks the original Spock how he defeated Khan. Of course the answer that we never hear is “by out thinking him.” Because a smart strategy ending is better but not as entertaining for a modern audience as a fist fight on a moving vehicle.

It’s shocking that Abrams was even considered for Star Wars after this. Perhaps a prequel style Star Wars. But not an original trilogy style Star Wars. Maybe all the fanboy homage scenes in his movies did it. Into Darkness even has an Indiana Jones homage in the opening. Abrams, a few of the actors, and even the writers know this movie sucks. I’ve seen a few recent stories with them defending the movie. Abrams even blamed it on the tie in videogame. Like people who actually played the game (not me) said the game sucks so I’m not going to see the movie. Well just about every tie in game sucks. The Matrix had one of the worst ones and people weren’t using that as an excuse.

I get why these two new Star Trek movies are successful too and why some people (I think more modern audiences than classic Star Trek fans) like them more than the old ones. They look newer and are flashy, have action every 10 minutes or so, and every character gets an action moment. They have good sound effects and a basic storyline that’s not as dull as the Next Generation movies. I remember trying to get a model to see a Next Generation movie with me once and she said they were too dull and the characters didn’t show their feelings or something to that nature. Well in these new movies people are shouting, crying, and having talks about their relationships. But they still lack real substance. It’s like that scene in the first stupid Fast and Furious movie with the Ferrari F355 versus I believe some suped up Japanese sportscar that had been lowered with bigger flashy tires, spoilers, and neon lights. Of course the Ferrari is better. But I’ve actually come across people who prefer the suped up Japanese sportscar.

Kirk is cool in these reboots because he’s called Kirk. Or has some good action moments. Not because he’s really Kirk. Because I don’t feel like I’m watching the real Captain Kirk here. There was no characterization or missions between the first movie and this one so we only care (if we do) because of who we are told they are, not what they’ve been through. We never see Kirk breaking all the rules. We’re just told that. And Kirk never really broke all the rules in the original series anyway. This is an exaggeration. In fact, everything is exaggerated to the point of parody at times. There is a lot of stupid stuff in this movie. The pointless and unneeded bikini scene. Yes, I’m a guy but the actress is topless in a movie I saw that I can’t remember right now. Her in a bikini is a tease. The Enterprise interior design is filled with all these walkways over massive pits. Predictable stuff with a character’s blood. Volcano’s that can destroy life on an entire planet and characters that actually need to be in said volcano. Unprotected secret ship factories and Earth is unprotected even with a coming war. It’s all an example of put the pieces together no matter how crazy and stupid it comes off.

This isn’t a hate piece like the stuff on the Net that’s popular these days. But a more Star Trek should be better than this piece. It should be better than those Next Generation movies too which I don’t like either. Some might say I’m making comparisons. But that’s what remakes / reboots open themselves up to. Stuff like the crap Halloween and Charade remakes ask for it. Into Darkness even does something I’ve never seen before in a remake. It asks you to see the original movie and TV show because of that scene when remake Spock asks the original Spock “who is Khan?”

I do like the cinematography in these movies. Probably far more than most as I always hear complaints about the lens flare and stuff. But it looks cool and futuristic. That shot of the Enterprise leaving after saving Spock is beautiful. The best thing I liked in the movie was the sound effect when the big ship is able to fire on the Enterprise during warp speed. That was cool and I hit rewind a bunch of times on that. There are a few good genuine moments with the main actors too. It’s not their fault the overall movie sucks. It’s the fault of the director, writers, and producers that decided to put their “spin” on the best Star Trek movie.