chrisk Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I happen to like SC, some of it anyway. Especially the armors. But I also like Mospeada. Now, let me count how many HG related toys I have. Oh yeah, the Beagles... engineered by the people that make Yamato toys... lol. Even if HG decides to make Toynami toys of SC items, I doubt I would care, and how many more fans feel like I do? I'd say that brings down any significant number of people that would be interested close to nil. Edit... dammit chrisK! haha! Well, the stuff Toynami got 'right' (i.e. the Beta/Tlead and the bikes) were molds "borrowed" from the Japanese toy companies, right? Sorry Southern Cross fans, but would you really pay hundreds of dollars for a known lemon Hovertank and even moreso the Space Chopper? I know I wouldn't. The (30 second convention-exclusive) clip is still up, and they probably could have had it pulled by now, so perhaps their strategy is "Let's make it super-forbidden and tempt people into recording it so that the fans will see it and say 'I want more!'" Then again, it has a whopping 223 views so far, which proves that buzz from a few internet forums mean NOTHING in terms of sales. Still, I feel safe knowing that they patrol them all. Shows how much people care about a Yellow Dancer 'sidequel', I say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ps99042 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Question for 1st Border Red Devil: What are you smoking and can I get some myself? Everyone else on this forum has pretty much explained why we'll likely never see Southern Cross toys so I don't really have much to add. Still, each Masterpiece toy volume, despite McKeevie saying they sell out all the time even before release sometimes, never even made it to their full "limited" production run. If even Macross Saga toys couldn't do this, Southern Cross definitely won't. Besides, it would make way more sense to produce toys related to the new sidequel or even the gangbuster selling Shadow Chronicles since those are HG's current money makers (if you can even give these production this title) and that doesn't seem to be happening either. Still, it's always nice to dream or be under the influence... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXO Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 From what I've heard from people that put out stuff at Wonderfest, is that Big West owns all the rights to Southern Cross now. I don't know if Tatsanuko decided not to contest it or for whatever reasons but if you wanted SC licenses then you have to go to BW. And they said it's been a while since anyone has tried but the last times, BW has turned down every one that has attempted to get a one day license for Wonderfest. Yes it's hearsay. And no, I can't provide sources. But that's pretty much how my "unofficial" discussion went. This person has an interest in getting a license for it so I guess I'll find out what happens when they actually put in a request. One thing they did add was that those mugs on RT.com stores are no longer there. Maybe Tatsanuko only has rights to media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st Border Red Devil Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 From what I've heard from people that put out stuff at Wonderfest, is that Big West owns all the rights to Southern Cross now. That begs the question as to WHY they would do that if its a money pit and no one wants it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXO Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 That begs the question as to WHY they would do that if its a money pit and no one wants it. Personal interest is one thing. But these guys are not the right example you are looking for. If there's one thing they know about, it's putting out a high quality product thinking people will want it only to watch it miserably fail due to lack of interest. That's why Wonderfest might be their outlet for dream projects. You can only produce 10 and if that doesn't sell out you can just produce something else on the next one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 For a mass produced toy made in the mid-80s, I'd say its fair. Okay, so not up to snuff. I'm not exactly sure what you mean. By "anime magic," I mean: do the mecha's proportions change when it's in different modes? Are the legs thicker when it's a robot than they are when its a hovercraft? Stuff like that. :What I want them to do is at least gauge interest by making 1 or 2 super-poseables. I think a set of Spartas and Ajax super-poseables might do well. I think its especially apparent that people are tired of getting the same Macross toys they can get elsewhere. Doing the same g#ddamn thing over and over again and expecting different results is called insanity. Proof of this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azrael Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't we cover this about Southern Cross? "Kind of" the reverse situation of Macross. Tatsunoko owns the animation and lineart but Big West owns the merchandising rights? (The "kind of" in relation to Macross where Big West owns the lineart but Tatsunoko owns the animation and merchandising rights) Personal interest is one thing. But these guys are not the right example you are looking for. If there's one thing they know about, it's putting out a high quality product thinking people will want it only to watch it miserably fail due to lack of interest. That's why Wonderfest might be their outlet for dream projects. You can only produce 10 and if that doesn't sell out you can just produce something else on the next one. I'm gonna have to agree. Wonderfest is a poor example since the stuff there is a showcase for scratch-built/garage kits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonc Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 That begs the question as to WHY they would do that if its a money pit and no one wants it. Wonderfest licensees can make only 20 of one item, and these project pieces that people do seem more out of personal interest, than trying to sell a mass amount of product. I don't think you can compare selling 20 of one item that is like cast in resin and hand duplicated, to a company paying thousands to have metal molds made, and reproduced in a factory using ABS or Pom and diecast. Two totally different worlds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Ok here you go, I found you a southern cross helicoptor toy, it's the second one. Now STFU already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anime52k8 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Wonderfest licensees can make only 20 of one item, and these project pieces that people do seem more out of personal interest, than trying to sell a mass amount of product. I don't think you can compare selling 20 of one item that is like cast in resin and hand duplicated, to a company paying thousands to have metal molds made, and reproduced in a factory using ABS or Pom and diecast. Two totally different worlds. but where talking about a Southern cross toys from Toynami, chances are they'll only be able to sell about 20 of them anyways and they'll all be made of used bubblegum and saltine crackers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legioss Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 When/where did they do this? 8:10 For the international distribution rights to DYRL, the film itself, they need the permission of Tatsunoko, Big West, and Toho. Big West distributes it in Japan. Tatsunoko is unable to give Harmony Gold the rights to the movie, only the merchandising. It seems to leave Toho by elimination. Look on the back of your Clash of the Bionoids tape box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renato Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 8:10 For the international distribution rights to DYRL, the film itself, they need the permission of Tatsunoko, Big West, and Toho. Big West distributes it in Japan. Tatsunoko is unable to give Harmony Gold the rights to the movie, only the merchandising. It seems to leave Toho by elimination. Look on the back of your Clash of the Bionoids tape box. This is the situation as far as I know it: Big West is not a distributor, it is the IP owner. Actual distribution of video product (VHS/VHD/LD/DVD etc) was done by Shogakukan in the 1980s and Bandai Visual from the 1990s onward. Toho was the original distributor of the film to cinemas. Tatsunoko was contracted to produce much of the animation: unlike the TV series, they do not and never have had a stake in the ownership of the designs used or anything (the lawsuits during the 2000s were solely about the TV show). I think either Toho or Shogakukan did something back in the 80s to bring Clash etc. over. Are Kiseki still around? They released both DYRL subbed and the Super SpaceFortress Macross dub (as COTB, uncut) in the UK circa 1996. I would be interested to see who they made their contract with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaorin Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 (edited) Ok here you go, I found you a southern cross helicoptor toy, it's the second one. Now STFU already. the commercial's overall style is kind of cool in that unique, 1980's way, too bad the toys it's attempting to sell suck so much A$$. all that exquisite 1980's build quality, wasted on such silly design work... Edited July 13, 2011 by Shaorin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st Border Red Devil Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 (edited) Okay, so not up to snuff. For a modern toy? Not even remotely. By "anime magic," I mean: do the mecha's proportions change when it's in different modes? Are the legs thicker when it's a robot than they are when its a hovercraft? Stuff like that. As far as I have ever been able to tell, no. The toy from the 80s was not able to properly model the forward hoverjets, but I'd like to think that would not be so much of an engineering problem for a modern toy. Maybe I'm wrong. Besides, I'm talking about one of those non-transformable super-poseables to at least see if people want them. Proof of this? Are there or are there NOT other toy companies that make Macross items? Are they not said to be of superior quality for about the same price? Or am I missing something? Edited July 13, 2011 by 1st Border Red Devil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bateman Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 David, We've had this conversation before... Southern Cross/Robotech Masters is the Jan Brady of Robotech. You know I love Masters and you know that I lobbied hard for Masters toys. Not with Tommy, who is useless and incompetent, but to George Sohn directly both when I was at HG and after. The truth is, the numbers to him just didn't justify the costs of developing and designing a toy. I really hate to say it, because you know I have been a strong Southern Cross supporter, but I am being honest with you. Masters/Southern Cross would need a serious effort of support behind it, but it will never reach the popularity of Macross or Mospeada/New Generation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Focker Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Does anyone think that narrator in the Gobots commercial sounds a little like Patrick Stewart? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st Border Red Devil Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Not with Tommy, who is useless and incompetent, but to George Sohn directly both when I was at HG and after. The truth is, the numbers to him just didn't justify the costs of developing and designing a toy. Oh, I know perfectly well. As you remember, I even talked about buying a mould from a manufacturer to GIVE to Toynami. Masters/Southern Cross would need a serious effort of support behind it, but it will never reach the popularity of Macross or Mospeada/New Generation. I know it would need serious support and I know perfectly well it will not reach the popularity. However, at the same time, its ridiculous to not even utilize 1/3 of your franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einherjar Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I know it would need serious support and I know perfectly well it will not reach the popularity. However, at the same time, its ridiculous to not even utilize 1/3 of your franchise. But it was utilized, if only to give the show a chance in syndication in the first place. That's given them far more money then developing original toys, especially in this economy. This isn't Hasbro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXO Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Aren't they ONLY using 1/3 of their franchise anyway? Because they can't use Macross designs... And even then, they haven't been using the last 1/3 all that effectively. The whole point everyone is trying to make is to move on, use new designs but have an actual, competent writer behind the story... good mechs by actual mech designers... with good character designs by actual character designers. Even if they were new unheard of artists to save on budget, you still have to go thru portfolios and samples. But to have one guy take on everything, without anyone looking over him for quality is a recipe for disaster in a complex and supposedly epic story that this should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terry the lone wolf Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Instead of incorporating more of the Southern Cross story they should use some more of the characters like Sean, Angie, or even Bowie. Louie was a nice touch but I like to see Sean lead a cadre RDF soldiers against the Haydonites. He's kind of bad a$$ they could use for a decent story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXO Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I can't believe they even brought back any parts of the Sentinels. That whole thing was a bad idea back then. They reek of 60s-70s sci-fi. And then the design for Janice was worse than the one in the Sentinels Art book. After you've seen Catty from Gall Force and the M-66 androids back in the 80's you'd think that they'd try to top those things. But by now they're up against Motoko in the GiTS movies and series and even that Bjork video, it's clear how far they've been left behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkwater Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I know it would need serious support and I know perfectly well it will not reach the popularity. However, at the same time, its ridiculous to not even utilize 1/3 of your franchise. If you owned a company that had a Robotech license, why on earth would invest in anything that would be projected to lose money? HG is/was certainly in no place to force a licensee to say "you can make these Macross & New Gen products, as long as you make these Southern Cross products, as well." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st Border Red Devil Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 If you owned a company that had a Robotech license, why on earth would invest in anything that would be projected to lose money? I'm not convinced it would be a money losing proposition. Sorry, but I'm not. There has been not a single instance of anyone officially BROACHING the subject of making Southern Cross toys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I'm not convinced it would be a money losing proposition. Sorry, but I'm not. There has been not a single instance of anyone officially BROACHING the subject of making Southern Cross toys. That in itself should tell you all you need to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynaman Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I'm not convinced it would be a money losing proposition. Sorry, but I'm not. There has been not a single instance of anyone officially BROACHING the subject of making Southern Cross toys. Did you read Tom Bateman's post? HE did, to the only people that could bankroll the toys, and THEY believe it will not make money. You want to convince someone you need to get on the phone with HG. Personally I seriously doubt the Macross and New Generation based toys are making that much money to begin with - there just not being enough people even aware they exist to make it very profitable. (in their RT incarnations that is) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legioss Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 The way that Southern Cross toys would appear in the Robotech.com store would be Japanese-made toys like the ones they have from Megazone 23. To make new toys, Toynami needs something to justify it like "the new Robotech movie is going to be based on Robotech Masters", "there's a whole active website for Southern Cross with 537 pages in the member list", and/or "there are successful Japanese toys for it". There are successful models for Southern Cross. At least I assume they were midly succesful. There's justification for making some models, but in the latest panel sure enough they told some guy that models are out of style and wouldn't make money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXO Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Personally I seriously doubt the Macross and New Generation based toys are making that much money to begin with - there just not being enough people even aware they exist to make it very profitable. (in their RT incarnations that is) Obviously Macross toys DO make money. But the type of toys that are profitable is beyond Toynami's capability and budget. As far as New Generation toys, the Beagle and the Megahouse failed and they never finished either line. If that property can't make it, what chances does Southern Cross Toys or Merchandise have? I find it funny though that there's only one member that's making a stand yet everyone chooses to reply to him as if it mattered. If you were getting that much attention, wouldn't you keep up the fight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ps99042 Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Let's move on from the fact that we'll never see Southern Cross toys. The Unofficial Robotech Reporter has a post stating that there aren't many tentpole features showing off at Comic-Con this year. You would think that HG would be able to take advantage of this situation and try to get Robotech more in the spotlight by really talking up their new CD, 30th Anniversary sidequel (cause you know it's not coming out in 2012 and will likely get pushed back further due to ordering more animation assuming they still like what they see), and the LAM that is definitely coming to theaters within the next 2 decades. A big push for Robotech during this lull in big ComicCon presentations could spur some interest in the franchise so I can get premium dollar for my Scott Bernard Masterpiece Cyclone on eBay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einherjar Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 (edited) Thank God other people have more to offer besides one minute clips of rough animation and auto-tuned music for an upcoming soundtrack at Comic-Con,amirite? Edited July 14, 2011 by Einherjar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I'm not convinced it would be a money losing proposition. Sorry, but I'm not. There has been not a single instance of anyone officially BROACHING the subject of making Southern Cross toys. And why would there be? What businessman in his right mind would willingly make something he knows almost nobody wants to buy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bateman Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 There has been not a single instance of anyone officially BROACHING the subject of making Southern Cross toys. Uh, yes, I did. Unless you don't think I was "official". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zor Primus Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 (edited) Let it go man...as much as I'd love to see a Spartas made into an mpc there is a bigger chance we'll see Jim's jeep be made before anything SC Edited July 14, 2011 by Zor Primus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeyondTheGrave Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 (edited) See for yourself. Yep... you're right on the money there, Az. How do you know they're not waiting for the next panel? Or trying to sleep off a hangover? And why would there be? What businessman in his right mind would willingly make something he knows almost nobody wants to buy? Steve Jobs. Edited July 14, 2011 by BeyondTheGrave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisk Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 How do you know they're not waiting for the next panel? Or trying to sleep off a hangover? Those same dudes cheered when they heard a Reba West song... I think it's safe to say they're fans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonc Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Those same dudes cheered when they heard a Reba West song... I think it's safe to say they're fans Or people like me, who were there only to hear the B.S. I think the only good thing was the documentary stuff they showed, which was decent. Somehow, no one from the Row boat techies there, have commented on the documentary. Must not be as important as HG wants you to think it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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