Official Transformers Super Thread 3

[David Hingtgen]

We never saw the first mold posed "dramatically" on a stand like the newest colored pic of the new mold. We have no idea of its articulation capabilities. Since the hip/thigh/knee joints look similar, I doubt there's much difference between the two molds. The new one just has big extra parts on the hip armor.

Edited July 23, 2006 by David Hingtgen

[David Hingtgen]

JBO--the conformal tanks are the sole reason for the rounded forearms. And as for intake kibble, it's highlighted in red on both molds. If it was simply moved on the new mold, it'd be smaller--but it's two or three times bigger now, because of the added bulk of the conformal tank being added (since the front of the conformal tank goes right underneath the root extension).

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Your post was modded for a reason---don't quote huge images. The thread is currently image heavy as it is. Also, bad idea to un-mod a mod's mod. We've already had a complaint about your quoted image (some people REALLY hate them and PM the mods), I modded it the first time because of that.

In my defence, that image was already in this monster thread from an earlier page in the thread (it links to it actually) so should be in your cache already. So all the people who were pissed off, sorry. Didn't think it would be that big a problem.

Edited July 23, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[JB0]

JBO--the conformal tanks are the sole reason for the rounded forearms.  And as for intake kibble, it's highlighted in red on both molds.  If it was simply moved on the new mold, it'd be smaller--but it's two or three times bigger now, because of the added bulk of the conformal tank being added (since the front of the conformal tank goes right underneath the root extension).

418467[/snapback]

Thank you!

That was where I thought it was, at least on the new model. I really had no idea where to look on the old one.

So everyone agrees that adding the fuel tanks was a bad idea, if nothing else.

Also a pity that both molds look like crap from behind.

Edited July 23, 2006 by JB0

[GobotFool]

not that it matters anymore, but I do wonder if they could have gotten the booms to fold across StarScreams back.

[Fit For Natalie]

I though the first version looked fine from behind.

As for it not 'needing' big legs because he flies... that's one of the weakest arguments I've ever heard. A similarly weak argument I can counter with is the fact most vehicular Transformers designs have large legs, a part of common TF design.

That's why guys like Cybertron Thundercracker look so odd by TF standards, even if not for his giant gun arm.

I think the first prototype was a happy marriage between the original toy, the cartoon model (and modern comic representations) and a real F-15.

[Twoducks]

The thing is that we are yet to see the second version correctly transformed. Each new pics gets closer to what I think the whole point of having hip kibble is:

The tailfins go up to leave space for more G1 correct legs. This kibble doesn’t just stand there, it moves (might even be ball jointed and removable even). Moving to the back of the toy they become less visible. The wings open up to leave more space for them and that also makes the wings angle in a more menacing way (look at the first version, the wings hang down a lot).

Personally I like that Kawamori went for something new instead of the old “F* it, the tailfins stay there†philosophy.

When we get real front pics like the one photoshoped above of the new version correctly transformed we will see what looks more like a Starscream.

Not having hip kibble also helps to make the legs more posable. Prime’s leg wheels don’t have protuberances that limit movement.

Edit:

This second version also deserves to be called MP because it does a great G1 SS and a great F-15. In other words: A ROBOT IN DISGUISE. (MP Prime’s disguise was a little clumsy).

Edited July 23, 2006 by Twoducks

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

As for it not 'needing' big legs because he flies... that's one of the weakest arguments I've ever heard. A similarly weak argument I can counter with is the fact most vehicular Transformers designs have large legs, a part of common TF design.

That's because most of them fight from the ground so they need the armor. Starscream needs to be light. Autobots = strong on the ground but weak in the air. Until Jetfire that is. That's what the ad for the toy said anyway.

I'm just playing with ya..

The wings open up to leave more space for them and that also makes the wings angle in a more menacing way (look at the first version, the wings hang down a lot).

I like that they can do that. Sort of like the shoulders for the bandai vf17 toy. (I always pose them in an angled way to make it look threatening.) I get that same feeling with this when they put them angled like that, like they are a pair of demon wings or something.

Edited July 23, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Sephiroth]

I'm really looking forward to this repaint:

http://www.bigbadtoystore.com/bbts/product...ail&picture=out

Although, I was kinda hoping that they would use the Enzo for Hot Rod one day.

[Radd]

You know, I'd actually probably buy both versions of MP Starscream. The first, because it is more like the old Starscream's look. The second because it's a badass improvement on the old design.

Just like I'd buy a new version of MP Prime based on the Kawamori design used for the Hybrid Prime toy.

[ruskiiVFaussie]

No way, this updated version of SS fricken ROCKS. Forget the first version,

I'm all for this one, f accuracy, this is just so much sexier looking.

Looks badass! As SS should. Sigh, reminds me of my beloved Y/VF-22.

Ordered Prime and SS 2 days back from hlj. I get SS, me bro gets Prime.

[eriku]

After looking at the pics of both versions of SS again, I guess I don't like the way either of them transforms. The tailfins should be removable...

[Abnolds]

Long ago when this version of the TF thread started, I said I'd write a review on the tenth anniversary Primal and Megs. Without much further ado:

Optimus Primal

This toy could have been awesome if it only included half the accesories that the original primal did. As it is the colors are slightly off, the alt mode suffers and the robot mode is missing key points of articulation.(Wrists) The board is useless unless you take off the front end and use it as a sword. Key gimmick is useless, and even moreso on a stupid accessory.

Some redeeming features are the excellent proportions in robot mode, and the fact that this is one of the coolest and most dynamic primes ever.

Really, you're only gonna buy this if you love Optimus Primal, which I do. I like him more and more everyday, especially bot mode.

Megatron

Almost the opposite of primal IMO, The robot mode fails to impress by having a thin head and that weird turquoise color on his chest and face. The key gimmick is strange, but I don't see where else they could have put it.

This toy shines in alt mode, the rex has lots of articulation and is able to take on some awesome poses. The only good thing about robot mode is that you can remove that tail gun thing.

I only bought Megatron so I would have both but the alt mode has grown on me.

All in all, some good toys, just not what I would have done. I think they should have been made bigger and with cooler features and accessories.

Also I'm slightly biased because I think Beast Wars is the best transformer series ever.

[ComicKaze]

We all saw this coming. With Shoji making Starscream's undercarriage even more F-15 accurate at the expense of accuracy to Starscream's robot mode, we are indeed getting a revisionist Starscream as per Shoji's desire to make a hyper-real F-15. So of course we are getting this color scheme:

[Twoducks]

We all saw this coming. With Shoji making Starscream's undercarriage even more F-15 accurate at the expense of accuracy to Starscream's robot mode, we are indeed getting a revisionist Starscream as per Shoji's desire to make a hyper-real F-15. So of course we are getting this color scheme:

418595[/snapback]

Actually, G1 accuracy depends on who you ask; it's not an exact science like most people want to believe. In my case I find Kawamori's revision to be more accurate.

And we aren’t getting a photoshoped colour scheme, we are getting this one:

http://www.tformers.com/article.php?sid=6259&mode=flat

Yes, not cartoon colour but very reminiscent and more realistic looking (and cooler in my opinion).

If you don’t like it think it could have been worse. Had they coloured the crotch red instead of blue you would have had “Bikini Starscreamâ€

Edited July 23, 2006 by Twoducks

[Metal_Massacre_79]

Well, he got the shoulders, head, wings and boobs for SS right. What else do you need to make it look like SS? There really wasn't anything spectacular about the legs in the cartoon or the G1 version.

[Phyrox]

And we aren’t getting a photoshoped colour scheme, we are getting this one:

http://www.tformers.com/article.php?sid=6259&mode=flat

Damn, that is hawt.

I haven't bought a transformer since...uh, well maybe ever. My last transformer was probably a gift in the late '80s.

I wasn't even excited about Starscream, but seeing a decent photo of him all painted up...I am actually tempted. He looks damn good.

[Dobber]

God I love this thing, I'm really looking forward to getting this!!! Is there a confirmed release date yet?

Chris

[Vermillion21]

I haven't bought a transformer since...uh, well maybe ever.  My last transformer was probably a gift in the late '80s.

I felt the same way about 2 months ago, then I re-discovered some old TFs at my parents' home. Have caught the bug since ... trying to complete some gestalt combiner sets from the classic G1 era. Thank goodness for eBay. Then I discovered the TF Alternators line ... amazing! Now my wallet hates me.

[promethuem5]

I am loving the look of MPSS so far....especially the new paint job shown with much less color. Makes SS look much more like a functional combat robot and less like a clown. I like the wing booms on the hips alot too... reminds me of the YF-19 (my fav valk) and 21. The ONLY thing I still dont like is the neck area and the pedestal effect of the head. Other that that, if t came out today looking like that last pic, I am sold.

[Fit For Natalie]

One problem I have is this - vehicle mode ultra accuracy has never been (and should never be) the most important factor in designing a Transformer. Its about designing the character of the toy, infusing it with personality as representations of living beings.

(This seems to be more in line with Hasbro thinking than Takara, the latter of which having never designed the originals as alien sentient beings and thus still tend to think of vehicular TFs as Diaclone mecha, if their wanting to redo new TF/Diaclone is any indication).

If Kawamori and all you Macross fans really wanted a variable F-15 Valkyrie... why not have Big West license the plane and turn it into a robot? Then wait X number of years for Yamato to make a hyper accurate scale model-esque collector toy that doesn't need to deal with any Transformers homages and character-accuracy.

Easy.

[Twoducks]

One problem I have is this - vehicle mode ultra accuracy has never been (and should never be) the most important factor in designing a Transformer. Its about designing the character of the toy, infusing it with personality as representations of living beings.

(This seems to be more in line with Hasbro thinking than Takara, the latter of which having never designed the originals as alien sentient beings and thus still tend to think of vehicular TFs as Diaclone mecha, if their wanting to redo new TF/Diaclone is any indication).

If Kawamori and all you Macross fans really wanted a variable F-15 Valkyrie... why not have Big West license the plane and turn it into a robot? Then wait X number of years for Yamato to make a hyper accurate scale model-esque collector toy that doesn't need to deal with any Transformers homages and character-accuracy.

Easy.

418668[/snapback]

As said before, some of us prefer a Robot in Disguise (a Transformer). I don't see a Valk or a random soulless robot, I see Starscream in that pic. So I guess Kawamori and Takara did capture the character for me. Best homage of a 2D backstabbing cartoon character that magically transforms into an F-15 I can think off.

One man’s Binaltech is another’s MP. Just as “G1 accuracy†is a loose term.

Edited July 23, 2006 by Twoducks

[Smiley424]

Good to see someone else is following TF comics at least. Yeah, I agree with you on Ej Su. His work is okay, but nothing spectacular. I guess he has a following in the TF community. I really like Joe Ng's work on TF vs GIJOE and the story overall 'cept I wanted to see some panels of Omega Supreme duking it out with Menasor and the two other Decepticon gestalts (I forget which ones they were). Anyway, just needed to move away from MP Starscream talk.

Also, Devastator as ONE M1 Abrams Tank = Not a good Transformers Movie

Its more of after infiltration, like kinda future but not far future. 

I don't really like Ej Su's artwork, it didn't appeal to me in gijoe vs tf, and still does not appeal to me in infilatration. I remember when I did some constructive criticism once and an assload of transfans flamed me for it.  One of the biggest turn offs is lack of accuracy in alt modes.  And the drawings just don't really jump out at me.

Maybe its my bias because I am a diehard jetfan, who knows, maybe its because me majoring in illustration and not really seeing anything really spectacular in his work, but if anything, I think its a problem not limited to him but in the entire industry that barely ANYONE can draw a jet right!

The F-22 alt modes for the seekers he draws are way off most of the time. I don't care if anyone tells me its "good enough". NO.  That is no excuse to draw an overbloated F-22 that is very inaccurate and looks like something out of a coloring book.  Even when he draws humans, eh its MHO but yea his work don't appeal to me. To each their own.  Infiltration should have had Don or James Raiz on it. James Raiz rules.

And for that matter NO I do not like Pat Lee's work either.

Heck even Bryan Hitch, one of my personal faves(who I just figured out a few months back, worked on the OLD UK transformers g1 comics!) does not draw planes as well as he draws figures.

The guy who draws Twilight X has EXCELLENT planes, so does Shimizu from Prowling Red Devil. 

Eh anyways. back to tf's.

Hasbro ain't planning on bringing over MP Starscream at this time.

But Kickback did provide this.

"When I asked Hasbro about MP Starscream before, I got a "Sept 2007 at the absolute earliest, if at all". So you won't be seeing him here until next Christmas at the earliest."

BTW guys takaratomy is doing some STARS club thing in japan.  Their exclusives include Roller for MP-04, and Anime color Starscream. 

I don't want an anime color starscream, don't like the colors on the present one on the retailer scan, I want the OLD g1 toy Starscream colors!  Baby blue does not work on a menacing toy....maybe it did in the cartoon but naw DARK blue looks better! 

As a matter of fact, the g1 seeker toys had the "definitive" colors for me. No baby blue thundercracker for me either!

417862[/snapback]

[David Hingtgen]

I personally hate the MP SS scheme. Basically--how will they do Thundercracker and Skywarp? Different fist colors? Because that's about all there is now to color, with their new "realistic" F-14 (not a typo) color scheme...

(Nothing makes a plane-buff dislike something more than using something that is distinctly from another plane). Nothing says "authentic" like using another plane's color...

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

As said before, some of us prefer a Robot in Disguise (a Transformer). I don't see a Valk or a random soulless robot, I see Starscream in that pic. So I guess Kawamori and Takara did capture the character for me. Best homage of a 2D backstabbing cartoon character that magically transforms into an F-15 I can think off.

One man’s Binaltech is another’s MP. Just as “G1 accuracy†is a loose term.

The best way is to vote with your wallet. If enough people don't buy it, it will send a message that the changes made were not popular with the tf fans. (I stamped my foot down with toynami mp alphas and didn't get any for eg) But I have faith they will just buy it anyway and it is just nitpicking like the people who complained that the GBP armor on the 1/48 doesn't match the lineart because of the super sized chest but then ended up buying it. Only time will tell. There is always the classic starscream.

Are the changes necessary? Probably not. But my guess is people who are now in thier adult life (with more disposable income) would prefer a more gritty interpretation of the character and a vehicle mode that could pass as a disguised robot. (appealing to fan who are typically buying the alternators because of the quality) To me, posability in robot mode is important too. I don't know if the hip thingies will increase the poses or make it worse but from what has been shown in pics so far, he looks good in a floating stance on the stand. I bet fans will grow to apreciate it.

Because the characters were based on the toys and not the other way around (toys made out of characters) I think it is ok to bend the rules a bit. I know it is cynical of me to say this to all fans of the characters and comics, but essentially I view TF as a series that was designed to sell toys, (and the toys kept the series alive) which is why they killed prime and a number of other g1 robots in the movie to begin with to make more toys. I don't see it as a case of: the strength of the story alone being enough to keep it alive by itself. (it was more like our appreciation for the character grew as time went on.)

I mean when you look at SS face, they even made him look more menacing than in the cartoon by having his head more deepset inside the helmet. It just adds a little dramatic flair that wasn't in the toon. It's small stuff like that I like. I know I will probably be buying this more because it is a cool toy than due to nostalgia alone. It reminds me of the people who complained about changes in the new BSG series. If the changes are good, I welcome them.

Edited July 24, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[chowyunskinny]

new pics from Figure Oh courtesy of F2F

[Guppy]

nice gimmicks! The front landing gear looks pretty bad, hope it's still at proto stage. And I think it would looks sleeker minus the marone stripes on the wing edges.

Love the navy font "SS" on the tailfins.. cute!

[ghostryder]

The front landing gear looks pretty bad, hope it's still at proto stage.

Even real F-15s have cheesy, spindly front landing gear

Although I appreciate the attempt at realism, they should have kept true to the G1 color scheme (maybe with subdued hues like maroon and slate blue). Those small areas of pastel colors really stick out in a bad way.

[eugimon]

thanks for the new pics. the colors don't look so jarring in this one though I'm not keen on the "red" still.

[Fit For Natalie]

I personally hate the MP SS scheme.  Basically--how will they do Thundercracker and Skywarp?  Different fist colors?  Because that's about all there is now to color, with their new "realistic" F-14 (not a typo) color scheme...

(Nothing makes a plane-buff dislike something more than using something that is distinctly from another plane).  Nothing says "authentic" like using another plane's color...

418695[/snapback]

They won't - Cartoon Colours Starscream (with crown) will cost more money and is only available through Takara's subscription fee-based STARS club. No doubt they will do TC and Skywarp if Starscream does well enough.

Unfortunately, Takara knows the draw of Kawamori's name in Japan, and will flog the regular releasing according to his preferences to maximize the potential sales. The fact that MP Starscream is a Transformer is FARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR BEHIND in second place in their minds. And I'm pretty sure Mr Kawamori didn't give a flying crap about TFs.

I mean look at Figure OH!'s promo of the figure - they show the plane's features, but barely the ROBOT.

This is a toy made to be sold primarily to fans of Macross, fans of Mr Kawamori's mecha designs, general fans of japanese mecha and fighter place replicas. Not Transformers customers, and that is a tragedy for Transformers in Japan.

Edited July 24, 2006 by Fit For Natalie

[Limbo]

There is always the chance Hasbro will bring this over with cartoon colors...

[Ivan]

I've never been a fan of the Starscream character or toys, but this new masterpiece does look very cool. I was originally going to pass on the figure, but after seeing the new color scheme, I am kind of falling for it now. Macross fans who complain about Yamato focusing only on the VF-1 series, here's your chance to get a different type of valkyrie

P.S. Any chance Graham might fall for it too?

[wolfx]

lol....it has an opening radome as well.

I kinda like it, despite what the purists say about it.

[isamu_dyson]

another picture (SS on the right looks mistransformed )

[Twoducks]

YES!!

We have smirk face! Hellooooooooooooo Starscream.

Finally we see the chest misiles. The fingers look a little on the weird side though.

The more I see it the more I want it (hope it come panel lined like in the pics).