The Acolyte - Disney Plus Star Wars Series

[Seto Kaiba]

5 hours ago, Raikkonen said:

The Like/Dislike button are really that. Did a person like it, or not, or is undecided/doesn't care to click either. 

Yeah, like I said, it's meant to be a knee-jerk reaction to the content immediately in front of you... not a vote of confidence on the potential of what the video in front of you might be trying to sell.

 

5 hours ago, Raikkonen said:

The term "Review-Bombing" was created by film studios, and still used by them and whoever they pay to market them, to "try" deviate from the masses' discontent with their product. The term shouldn't be used as a way to shrug off mass opinion just because the minority disagrees with it. 

That's a bit wide of the mark, in point of fact.

"Review bombing" was a term coined by game and tech journalists back in the late 2000s to describe coordinated campaigns of gamers mass-posting negative reviews of games to punish the developers and/or publishers for misdeeds like false and egregiously misleading advertising or using particularly restrictive or detrimental DRM.  2008's Spore gets cited as the origin of the term quite a bit.  The term was later appropriated to describe similar punitive campaigns of mass negative review posting in other contexts regardless of justification.

Film studios and TV networks do sometimes try to blame large numbers of early negative reviews on review bombing... but it doesn't take long for the truth to come out one way or the other, and you can pretty reliably predict which way it'll go based on how hard they're reaching for plaudits in their self-published promotional material.

What it is in this case, we can only guess... it could be fans downvoting it based on past performance, or it could be people really just don't thrill to the concept.  Time will tell.

 

5 hours ago, Raikkonen said:

That said, sock puppet/bots services are VERY expensive, and if anything, probably only major studios can afford them, and if it was studio against studio, everyone would know it as the numbers would be unrealistically inflated on both ends. 

Well, yes and no...

If you start your own, the setup costs can get quite expensive... but if all you're interested in is the results you can hire one of the many private firms that provide bot-driven social media "engagement" for pocket change.  There are dozens of services that'll happily sell you likes, follows, retweets, and what have you for as little as a penny per interaction if you're willing to buy in bulk.  A quick Google search'll turn up pages of services willing to sell you likes by the thousands for the cost of a burger at McDonalds.

Studios don't typically do it because it's really bloody obvious when you see it happening, and most social media platforms have rules against buying engagement now.  It's easier and less conspicuous to simply buy up the entertainment news websites that're publishing reviews and source their artifiical positive press more organically.

[jenius]

I don't understand what's not to like about the trailer. It's just a teaser, has a lot of action, has some good actors in it. That's why I would guess it's just review bombing. People going "I hate Disney, you ruined Star Wars" thumbs down. I wonder how close in time the girl Jedi saying "I see fire" is to the events that follow. Maybe she's a bad little Jedi? 

Honestly, I'm so burnt out on Marvel and Star Wars. I haven't caught up on all the shows for either and don't know if I ever will. For Star Wars, I think I've only missed Andor and Obi Wan. 

[Scyla]

1 hour ago, jenius said:

I don't understand what's not to like about the trailer. It's just a teaser, has a lot of action, has some good actors in it. That's why I would guess it's just review bombing. People going "I hate Disney, you ruined Star Wars" thumbs down. I wonder how close in time the girl Jedi saying "I see fire" is to the events that follow. Maybe she's a bad little Jedi? 

Honestly, I'm so burnt out on Marvel and Star Wars. I haven't caught up on all the shows for either and don't know if I ever will. For Star Wars, I think I've only missed Andor and Obi Wan. 

You and me both. At this time all I want is a copy of the despecialized cut of the original trilogy I saw as a kid.

I guess this is not a singular sentiment which makes it even puzzling to me why they didn’t try to set the story earlier: new characters, new aesthetics, new story beats, less baggage.

The only thing I can come up with is that the marketing people at Disney think, that the Prequel era is popular thanks to the success of the Clone Wars show so they want to capitalize on that.

In my perception most of the fandom is burnt out on some aspect of the Skywalker saga timeframe so to me the key to success is abandoning that narrative altogether.

The KotoR setting was chosen exactly because it was so far removed so that they didn’t have to deal with the baggage from the main media, but it was familiar enough to recognize it as Star Wars.

[Big s]

2 hours ago, jenius said:

Honestly, I'm so burnt out on Marvel and Star Wars. I haven't caught up on all the shows for either and don't know if I ever will. For Star Wars, I think I've only missed Andor and Obi Wan. 

Watch Andor skip Obi. You’ll be happier that way 

[TangledThorns]

3 hours ago, Big s said:

Watch Andor skip Obi. You’ll be happier that way 

 

Watch Obi-Wan so you can feel our pain!!

 

[Big s]

47 minutes ago, TangledThorns said:

 

Watch Obi-Wan so you can feel our pain!!

 

Careful with the suggestions, he might start killing younglings 

[MKT]

6 hours ago, Big s said:

Watch Andor skip Obi. You’ll be happier that way 

Agree on this. Some commented Andor meanders a bit, but I thought slow burn type shows matches the streaming format well..

 

2 hours ago, TangledThorns said:

 

Watch Obi-Wan so you can feel our pain!!

 

Can’t disagree with this.  Nice to see old familiar faces in SW again, but otherwise Obi-Wan is a classic example of be careful what you wish for of wanting more stories of classic characters. 

[Seto Kaiba]

8 hours ago, jenius said:

I don't understand what's not to like about the trailer. It's just a teaser, has a lot of action, has some good actors in it. That's why I would guess it's just review bombing. People going "I hate Disney, you ruined Star Wars" thumbs down. I wonder how close in time the girl Jedi saying "I see fire" is to the events that follow. Maybe she's a bad little Jedi?

As noted previously, a good deal of the discontent from the die-hard Star Wars fans on social media seems to center around the perceived Sith-Jedi continuity snarl between the dialog in The Phantom Menace and the setting of The Acolyte.

Looking in from the outside as a casual Star Wars enjoyer, the long-time fans seem to react especially poorly to anything that changes the previously established timeline or how the setting works.

 

8 hours ago, jenius said:

Honestly, I'm so burnt out on Marvel and Star Wars. I haven't caught up on all the shows for either and don't know if I ever will. For Star Wars, I think I've only missed Andor and Obi Wan. 

Andor is brilliant.  You should definitely watch it, even if the first two and a half episodes are a bit of a slog.

 

 

7 hours ago, Scyla said:

I guess this is not a singular sentiment which makes it even puzzling to me why they didn’t try to set the story earlier: new characters, new aesthetics, new story beats, less baggage.

The only thing I can come up with is that the marketing people at Disney think, that the Prequel era is popular thanks to the success of the Clone Wars show so they want to capitalize on that.

That's an easy one... it's all about managing and minimizing risk.

Disney's been playing it safe with Star Wars ever since 2017-2018.  The one-two punch of the substantially negative fan reaction to The Last Jedi in 2017 and the failure of Solo: a Star Wars Story at the box office in 2018 put them on the defensive in a big way.  The ensuing panicked "recalibration" saw them axe their planned lineup of __________: a Star Wars Story films and have the final film of the sequel trilogy micromanaged and written by committee to ensure that it would be made as inoffensive to fans as possible.  It's also why televised works have largely been Filoni mining the rich seams of pre-Disney nostalgia with de facto spinoffs of pre-Disney shows and new stories operating in close proximity to the original trilogy like The Mandalorian, Obi-Wan, Andor, etc.

The farther afield they go, the less the writers are able to use nostalgia as a crutch in their writing and the more they have to change the visual design of the story.  

The Acolyte being 100 years ahead of The Phantom Menace seems to be their idea of a happy medium for now... far enough away that the events of the Skywalker Saga aren't yet relevant to the story, but close enough that they don't have to tweak the visual aesthetic any.

 

 

2 hours ago, Big s said:

Careful with the suggestions, he might start killing younglings 

Killing a few Yuenglings might dull the pain of Obi-Wan a little...

[azrael]

9 hours ago, jenius said:

I don't understand what's not to like about the trailer. It's just a teaser, has a lot of action, has some good actors in it. That's why I would guess it's just review bombing.

It is a trailer. A cherry-picked glimpse of what's to come. Hence why I'm moving into the "wait-&-see" column.

7 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

The Acolyte being 100 years ahead of The Phantom Menace seems to be their idea of a happy medium for now... far enough away that the events of the Skywalker Saga aren't yet relevant to the story, but close enough that they don't have to tweak the visual aesthetic any.

How about 200? 400? 500? Stop using such small numbers.

[Roy Focker]

Pretty sure there's review-bombing going on. Actual opinion among fans and casual public is likely an even split down the middle. If you seek opinion videos and articles about this show post trailer, you'll see many are focusing on a certain narrative. One that if I mentioned here would be political sounding. Which is something we try to avoid bringing to our forums. There's a large chunk of the population who doesn't care about Star Wars but if you inform them about it and frame your complaint around this touchy topic all these people will mobilize.

[jvmacross]

3 hours ago, TangledThorns said:

 

Watch Obi-Wan so you can feel our pain!!

 

Just watch the version with most of the bad parts edited out?

https://www.kaipattersonfilms.com/kenobi

[Seto Kaiba]

18 minutes ago, azrael said:

How about 200? 400? 500? Stop using such small numbers.

You'd think they could've just tacked an extra zero on there and avoided the perceived continuity problem entirely, but here we are. 🤔

The most practical explanation I can think of for why they're staying close but not too close to the Skywalker Saga is to save money and minimize risk by reusing existing virtual assets, physical sets, costumes, makeup, and props from other productions.

[jvmacross]

Have to read those Book$ and Comic$ to get the full picture....

https://screenrant.com/star-wars-yoda-sith-warned-didnt-notice/

[Big s]

36 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

Have to read those Book$ and Comic$ to get the full picture....

https://screenrant.com/star-wars-yoda-sith-warned-didnt-notice/

Not gonna do that. I’ll just stick with the notion that the creators were senile 

[Thom]

I'm of the opinion that there shouldn't need to be any tie-in material. Everything pivotal to the movie/franchise should be in the movie/franchise as seen on screen.

[Chronocidal]

11 minutes ago, Thom said:

I'm of the opinion that there shouldn't need to be any tie-in material. Everything pivotal to the movie/franchise should be in the movie/franchise as seen on screen.

Yeah, this.  If you can't write a coherent stand-alone story without requiring the viewer to go digest all of your DLC, that's not the fault of the viewer.

[Seto Kaiba]

28 minutes ago, Thom said:

I'm of the opinion that there shouldn't need to be any tie-in material. Everything pivotal to the movie/franchise should be in the movie/franchise as seen on screen.

I agree completely.

Other franchises have already tested that paradigm to (self-)destruction and found it's a terrible ****ing idea.  To everyone who isn't in the know, it's just a plot hole.

Like Star Trek, when they put all the backstory for their 2009 soft reboot film into a limited comic that even Star Trek fans didn't read and then spent years regretting it and walking that sh*t back.

[pengbuzz]

Agree with Seto, Chrono, Thom and Big S: if you need "tie ins" to tell your story, then maybe you're not a very good storyteller to begin with.

[jvmacross]

1 hour ago, Big s said:

Not gonna do that. I’ll just stick with the notion that the creators were senile 

No one in their right mind would buy any of this trash....in either case....if you really wanted to know about any of the non-film "backstory"....there are plenty of sites that will glady provide it to you for the clicks...lol

Disney/Lucasfilm must be making alot of money from the die-hard fans to keep leaving in the plot holes to sustain the side media sales....not really that surprising though....

[sh9000]

 

[TangledThorns]

Disney is doing a great job on saving me money by not restarting my subscription with them.

 

 

[azrael]

Yeah, still not feelin' it.

And still not diggin' the time period. Would have preferred 200...300...500 years before the Skywalker-saga. 100 years just doesn't feel far back enough.

[Seto Kaiba]

Well, after seeing this new trailer, it definitely feels like The Acolyte is headed into Plot Hole: the Series territory.

Spoiler

Google and the Star Wars fan wikis tell me that "Acolyte" is the rank below "Apprentice" in the Sith, equivalent to a Jedi "Initiate"... both being the title for students who hadn't progressed far enough in their training to study under a master.

The titular character is a renegade Jedi, pretty much the #1 backstory for Sith.

We see something that looks like the Sith cult from Rise of Skywalker...

... and yet another Darth Vader cosplayer has wandered onto the set.  I'm starting to suspect that the reason so many Sith dress all in black and wear face-concealing masks and flowing capes or floor-length robes with ominously face-concealing hoods isn't just because they're telegraphing to the viewer/reader that they're EVIL... 

Spoiler

... they all have chuunyibyou. 

Despite being a secret society and The Conspiracy, the Sith order seems to exclusively recruit drama queens and edgelords who are so invested in belonging to an evil secret society bent on ruling the galaxy that they just can't contain the urge to telegraph their alliegance by dressing, talking, and acting the part of "Evil Overlord" at all times.

That's why Palpatine was the most successful Sith Lord.  He had enough self-control to realize that the key to remaining inconspicuous was being as undramatic as possible and wisely resolved to save his Evil Wardrobe for business calls only until after it was far too late to stop his Evil Plan.™️

 

We'll know for sure in a month, though.

 

Quote

NO ONE IS SAFE

Except, of course, for any characters appearing in later titles... e.g. Yoda.  They're perfectly safe.

 

[Duke Togo]

23 minutes ago, azrael said:

Yeah, still not feelin' it.

And still not diggin' the time period. Would have preferred 200...300...500 years before the Skywalker-saga. 100 years just doesn't feel far back enough.

I have to agree. I'd actually prefer that they went back to the Old Republic era.

I'll watch this show, but I had greater interest after seeing the first trailer than I did after this new one. My expectations just got lowered.

[Mog]

If they do go back to the Old Republic era, I'd be worried about which characters they could screw up.

The fatigue is real.  And the stories just aren't hitting with the same "oomph" as before.

Bad Batch ended adequately.  And Tales of the Empire was pretty underwhelming.

They need to take time to marinade the stories a little more.

Honestly, they're getting dangerously close to the point where Star Trek was around the time Voyager and Enterprise were airing.  A lot of content is already out there, and the new stuff is either not taking enough risks or seems like rehashes/repeats of older, better told stories.

[Big s]

8 minutes ago, Mog said:

The fatigue is real.

I don’t think it’s as much fatigue as it is disappointment. Every show has become a bit of a let down. I loved the first couple seasons of Mando, but the last one was a mess. And the other shows never had a great season other than Andor and hopefully the second season of that doesn’t end in another let down 

[Mog]

Well, how many fetch-quests were there in those first two seasons of Mando?  Think we won't hear the groans if a fetch-quest (or two or four) pops up in Season 4?  It was something fresh and new those first two seasons.  But now we're starting to see the patterns and the proverbial seams.

So with The Acolyte, is there supposed to be some sort of new Phantom Menace that puts the Jedi on their heels? (pun definitely intended)

The fatigue isn't just for viewers that have all this content to compare the new stuff to.  It's also the writers and creatives:  they gotta bring their A game, because they can't spam their usual tropes or story beats and because we know what absolute, stand-out Star Wars can look like.

[azrael]

I'm not saying this will be good or bad because I haven't watched it. It may swing either way. But my enthusiasm for this show is just 🤷‍♂️😐 after 2 trailers.

1 hour ago, Mog said:

..Honestly, they're getting dangerously close to the point where Star Trek was around the time Voyager and Enterprise were airing.  A lot of content is already out there, and the new stuff is either not taking enough risks or seems like rehashes/repeats of older, better told stories.

I think we're already crossing the Rubicon there.

[sh9000]

I'll still check it out for Carrie-Anne Moss.

[Thom]

4 hours ago, azrael said:

Yeah, still not feelin' it.

And still not diggin' the time period. Would have preferred 200...300...500 years before the Skywalker-saga. 100 years just doesn't feel far back enough.

My only complaint so far is the same as this. Make it something old, not just 'hey, my gramps mentioned knowing that guy!' A millennia is a good, full number and more than enough span for a pallet-cleanser.

Other than that, and some line delivery, I'm interested. So far, I'm liking what I'm seeing.

 

P.S. As for the face-concealing helmets, it is like the writers/designers forgot that Vader had to wear that to stay alive and that Ben wore his in homage to his grandfather.

 

[Big s]

1 hour ago, Thom said:

P.S. As for the face-concealing helmets, it is like the writers/designers forgot that Vader had to wear that to stay alive and that Ben wore his in homage to his grandfather.

There was also Leia and Boba. And just about every stormtrooper type. They seem pretty common 

[Bolt]

I'm assuming this era is "safe territory " as there's just not as much content as the Old Republic. It was a little cringy to here the Jedi say"what are you?" As if the idea of Sith have only ever been a myth. Apparently it's already  Inconceivable that the Jedi's obvious rivals could possibly exist.

[shazam]

9 hours ago, sh9000 said:

 

 

 

[Thom]

1 hour ago, Big s said:

There was also Leia and Boba. And just about every stormtrooper type. They seem pretty common 

I mean in regards to the look of the main baddy. Leia had hers on to play a part and the Stormtroopers are early copy/paste Star Trek-style redshirts. Here we see another main baddy donning a sinister helmet, complete with creepy grin.

[Seto Kaiba]

7 hours ago, Mog said:

The fatigue is real.  And the stories just aren't hitting with the same "oomph" as before.

[...]

Honestly, they're getting dangerously close to the point where Star Trek was around the time Voyager and Enterprise were airing.  A lot of content is already out there, and the new stuff is either not taking enough risks or seems like rehashes/repeats of older, better told stories.

The fatigue is indeed real.

Your example is a fantastically appropriate one.  The Star Wars franchise is encountering exactly the same kind of audience fatigue that Star Trek did in the late 90's and early 00's, and the Disney execs overseeing it are making the same mistakes that the Paramount execs who flew Star Trek into the ground did.  They have a formula that worked well and are unwilling to consider deviating from it even as it becomes increasingly stale and uninteresting.  They've got an enormous and highly versatile setting but a very narrow view of the kind of stories that are appropriate to tell in that setting,

Maybe the Star Wars writers feel hemmed in by the second word in the title... everything has to come back to a war.

(Not that Star Trek learned its lesson either... they just waited until the fatigue wore off and went back to doing exactly what they were doing before.)