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Macross Δ (Delta) - Mission 3 - READ 1st POST


azrael
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Mission 3: Whirlwind Dogfight  

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I'd really like to see a Macross series where the main character is already a military pilot like Mac 0 so that we could skip the whole recruitment thing.

At 17 years old it's hard to imagine Hayate as a drifter that's experienced many jobs and places.

Actually, if they just added like 5 years to everyone's age in Walkure and Delta I'd find it a lot more believable.

Then again... mainstream macross has always featured young high-school-aged pilots so whatev

Edited by Duymon
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Doesn't deterrence still work in this universe. Shouldn't the Kingdom of the Wind know that it is suicide to attack a colony that is a part of the NUNS. Considering the NUNS most likely surpass them in firepower and manpower. The Kingdom of the Wind must have some type of secret weapon in order to stand a chance. Imagining holographic Tupac joining Walkure in a fight against the Var syndrome would be an epic sight to see.

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I'd really like to see a Macross series where the main character is already a military pilot like Mac 0 so that we could skip the whole recruitment thing.

At 17 years old it's hard to imagine Hayate as a drifter that's experienced many jobs and places.

Actually, if they just added like 5 years to everyone's age in Walkure and Delta I'd find it a lot more believable.

Then again... mainstream macross has always featured young high-school-aged pilots so whatev

Mid 20s would make the Walkure too old by idol standards.
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I'd really like to see a Macross series where the main character is already a military pilot like Mac 0 so that we could skip the whole recruitment thing.

At 17 years old it's hard to imagine Hayate as a drifter that's experienced many jobs and places.

Actually, if they just added like 5 years to everyone's age in Walkure and Delta I'd find it a lot more believable.

Then again... mainstream macross has always featured young high-school-aged pilots so whatev

I've long wondered how fast people "grow up" in post-war Macross. Exterminating the vast majority of humans should have significant and far-reaching effects on long-held cultural standards for both labor and family.

Which is the complex way of saying that with so few folks around, people should be starting careers younger, marrying younger, and starting families younger.

Of course, then you pack thousands of them into flying sardine cans and send them across the galaxy and that skews things in another direction. And then they start colonies and everyone's on a sparsely populated planet with more elbow room than anything else, and...

It gets complicated fast, but I imagine that the modern society in Macross is still skewing young. Today's admiral is yesterday's high school fighter ace, after all. The people in power see nothing wrong with hiring young, because they were hired young and that's the way it's been for as long as they've been around.

So to drag this kicking and screaming back to the point... it makes sense in-universe for a dadgum whippersnapper like Hayate to have much more experience than one here in the real world, because their universe has had some significant events to shake things up that ours thankfully did not.

Edited by JB0
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Doesn't deterrence still work in this universe. Shouldn't the Kingdom of the Wind know that it is suicide to attack a colony that is a part of the NUNS. Considering the NUNS most likely surpass them in firepower and manpower. The Kingdom of the Wind must have some type of secret weapon in order to stand a chance. Imagining holographic Tupac joining Walkure in a fight against the Var syndrome would be an epic sight to see.

Basically they are upstarts and fanatics. Notice they are saying Great Wind in religious overtones.

Keith said they were running out of time. Windermere could be entering a period of ice age and nearby colony planets are occupied by those whom they burnt bridges with.

Var syndrome as a weapon and Fold Quartz based technology could be a force multiplier. The Sv-262 Draken's beam gun has the same firepower as that of the VF-27. Fold Quartz has been used in jamming systems before as well in Macross VF-X2.

I've long wondered how fast people "grow up" in post-war Macross. Exterminating the vast majority of humans should have significant and far-reaching effects on long-held cultural standards for both labor and family.

Which is the complex way of saying that with so few folks around, people should be starting careers younger, marrying younger, and starting families younger.

Of course, then you pack thousands of them into flying sardine cans and send them across the galaxy and that skews things in another direction. And then they start colonies and everyone's on a sparsely populated planet with more elbow room than anything else, and...

It gets complicated fast, but I imagine that the modern society in Macross is still skewing young. Today's admiral is yesterday's high school fighter ace, after all. The people in power see nothing wrong with hiring young, because they were hired young and that's the way it's been for as long as they've been around.

So to drag this kicking and screaming back to the point... it makes sense in-universe for a dadgum whippersnapper like Hayate to have much more experience than one here in the real world, because their universe has had some significant events to shake things up that ours thankfully did not.

Milia was marrying off Mylene when she was 14. There should be some that are rebellious at that age to the tradition of the old generation. Freyja herself from a more feudal society didn't want to get married early and start popping out babies.

Plus there are guys like Basara wouldn't touch as teenager as to him they are children. But large age gap couples are probably not strange like with Jeffrey Wilder and Monica Lange.

Mylene got her drivers license and first car at 10 year old.

On whether you are of legal age depends where you are. For Frontier it is 17. Gamlin joined UN Spacy at 15 and he had special permission.

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Have to remember that anime tends to have characters at that age for a reason. That's about the last time most people there are truly "free" before having to deal with entrance exams, finding work, joining the workforce, getting married, raising a family, etc. Japan is a high pressure society, and there's alot of societal pressure to do those by a certain age. Creating fictional societies that allow for youthful protagonists is just an extension of that.

Doesn't deterrence still work in this universe. Shouldn't the Kingdom of the Wind know that it is suicide to attack a colony that is a part of the NUNS. Considering the NUNS most likely surpass them in firepower and manpower. The Kingdom of the Wind must have some type of secret weapon in order to stand a chance. Imagining holographic Tupac joining Walkure in a fight against the Var syndrome would be an epic sight to see.

Well, it's not like they know that it's the Kingdom of the Wind behind the Var Syndrome. At this point anyway, it seems they're doing irregular warfare which us harder to trace back to them. If they do get found out however, I'm pretty sure politics is going to hold NUNS back from just mounting a full scale invasion. The NUN isn't a single large "nation" anymore, but rather a collection of multiple planetary and fleet governments, just witg a (on paper at least) single unified military. Heck, it's probably gonna take awhile for NUNS to even act (probably gonna call for a vote) which will mean Chaos will have to handle the brunt of the early fighting. Edited by d3v
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I thought mercats were native to Ragna, not a genetic experiment?

If so, one has to wonder how something like that ever evolved to look and act JUST like cats on Earth. Very unbelievable, but there's more severe things that break my suspension of disbelief in this series. Hey, maybe there was once a Proto-cat-culture that seeded planets...

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Now thats an idea:)

If so, one has to wonder how something like that ever evolved to look and act JUST like cats on Earth. Very unbelievable, but there's more severe things that break my suspension of disbelief in this series. Hey, maybe there was once a Proto-cat-culture that seeded planets...

post-7418-0-27880400-1461326812_thumb.jpg

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If so, one has to wonder how something like that ever evolved to look and act JUST like cats on Earth. Very unbelievable, but there's more severe things that break my suspension of disbelief in this series. Hey, maybe there was once a Proto-cat-culture that seeded planets...

How about this - Protoculture had pet Protocats and decided to seed them along with their own genome, because the Protocats had some sort of important role in culture stuff or fold wave stuff or what not?

(Hmm, there was apparently a catgirl spotted in Episode 2 - so on some planet the genomes got mixed up?)

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Some of you guys sure treat Macross as if it was hard sci fi. Shoji Kawamori who is an aviation engineer knows his physics but also knows to throw them out the window for something cool. Also I hope they dont portray Windemeres cessation as a bad thing. Hoping it was justified but corrupted by fanatics. I felt sad that the unification of earth under UN Sapcy was done violently. Join UN or else! There tons of problems with one world Governments.

Edited by PrimumMobile
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Some of you guys sure treat Macross as if it was hard sci fi. Shoji Kawamori who is an aviation engineer knows his physics but also knows to throw them out the window for something cool. Also I hope they dont portray Windemeres cessation as a bad thing. Hoping it was justified but corrupted by fanatics. I felt sad that the unification of earth under UN Sapcy was done violently. Join UN or else! There tons of problems with one world Governments.

The NUN isn't a one world government though.
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I know that but I was talking about the Unification Wars.

I believe you are mis-understanding the Unification Wars. The Global government was established in light of the revelation of a potential alien threat, thus certain regions and nations took up arms against the incorporation to scuttle the new government. It wasn't all out WW III as portrayed in RT.

The wars were more akin to regional wars against the World Government forces and in the case of the AUA, a proxy war with UN Forces using OTEC equipment as the AUA is not clearly aligned with any formal governments.

Edited by Zinjo
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And whether Chaos/Delta Platoon functions as a military organization or a corporation Hayate normally would be in trouble, but remember that in episode 2 Hayate told Arad that he didn't like to follow orders and that he would do as he pleased, to which Arad said that it was fine, so yeah Hayate is receiving special treatment because he can "feel the wind".

It might be something else. Hayate was unusually serious and maybe defensive when he found out they were researching about him. Maybe Arad is holding back something about him that the dossier from Kaname had.

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Found a hint of this on Reddit by chance, looked up in Wikipedia - looks interesting to me but I really know nothing about planes.

So question: is the maneuver that Hayate Immelmann has stumbled upon thanks to a mercat related to something previously, in 1918, known as the Immellmann Maneuver?

post-22229-0-21348900-1461405006_thumb.png

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immelmann_turn#Historical_combat_maneuver

(Apologies if this was discussed in the podcast - I never got to it yet)

Edited by Saruta
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Found a hint of this on Reddit by chance, looked up in Wikipedia - looks interesting to me but I really know nothing about planes.

So question: is the maneuver that Hayate Immelmann has stumbled upon thanks to a mercat related to something previously, in 1918, known as the Immellmann Maneuver?

WW1Immelmann.png

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immelmann_turn#Historical_combat_maneuver

(Apologies if this was discussed in the podcast - I never got to it yet)

No, the maneuver that the mercat and Hayate pulled of is a Pugachev's Cobra, modified with some Gerwalk shenanigans.

Su-27_Cobra_2b.png

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pugachev%27s_Cobra

Edited by d3v
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If so, one has to wonder how something like that ever evolved to look and act JUST like cats on Earth. Very unbelievable, but there's more severe things that break my suspension of disbelief in this series. Hey, maybe there was once a Proto-cat-culture that seeded planets...

Zola had cats with pouches.

Interestingly on the Protoculture ruin planet New Asia which was abandoned because UN Spacy was messing with something they shouldn't have Weyland-Yutani has a Sphinx like statue. Never saw the front just the back.

post-9033-0-66789700-1461422431_thumb.jpg

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I've been watching the third episode so far and...

I don't really like where it's going...

Of course we have some fine mechas, good and neat drawing, a real work on landscapes, we even had some fan service with VF-1EX'es but on the other side, everything is so cliché and déjà-vu:

- Why does the main character has to jump in an abandonned Valk to take part in a fight in order to save a loli since Macross Zero?

- How come all the mechas are so easy to pilot? Of course, we follow the heroes so they are über skilled but they don't know it yet but my feeling is this one "Gimme that Valk, I rode a bicycle once so I can handle it, Imma gonna win the war alone, lol"

- Lolies always singing Jpop, I'm quite neutral toward jPop but it's music and music and music all the episodes long and I feel I could get fed-up by this at the end

- Why does the main male character has to have blue hair?

- Why does the Nemesis have to cross themselves in slow motion on a Battlefield?

- How come we can foresee what's coming next (Himmelmann getting shot down, you're not skilled enough little boy / ho jeez, here's some Jpop, he's gonna win at last/ ho no he passed the test but here comes Grumpy, there's no music he's gonna lose/ etc...)?

- I can already say without spoiling that the good ones and the bad ones want the same thing but have different views on how achieving their goals...

- There are some good dogfights but far from being as good as Plus/ Zero / Frontier, I guess they keep the good parts for the next episodes.

- etc etc

Maybe it's my age but I'm not as impressed as I've been with Plus/ Zero / Frontier and I tend to think I'm having a problem with the characters seen so many times too many times in so many different animés.

I'll keep on watching it because it's Macross and maybe they'll surprise me further but I'm not even a real fan of the new shape battroids, I tink the VF-25S, VF0 (-s), YF-19/21, VF-1A/S/D, were much more classy.

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It's not your age, it's your personal tastes. I've been watching Macross since I was 15, and now, at age 46 this coming Sunday, I'm just as thrilled with this Macross as I was with all the other Macross shows (except for II) that came before it.

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  • 2 weeks later...

- Why does the main character has to jump in an abandonned Valk to take part in a fight in order to save a loli since Macross Zero?

It's just one of Macross's favorite little callbacks... protagonists have been using "borrowed" Valkyries as civilians to save young women since the original series.

Mind you, Freyja is technically a subversion because she's actually a middle-aged woman as her species measures age.

- How come all the mechas are so easy to pilot? Of course, we follow the heroes so they are über skilled but they don't know it yet but my feeling is this one "Gimme that Valk, I rode a bicycle once so I can handle it, Imma gonna win the war alone, lol"

... so, let's go ahead and make the point that the complete opposite of that is explicitly true in pretty much every Macross series.

Hikaru spent most of his first outing in a Valkyrie crashing into buildings, falling over, and generally making an arse of himself despite being a trained and highly-skilled stunt pilot.

Shin Kudo likewise spends most of his time training for a transformable fighter falling over, crashing, and generally finding new ways to ensure the Asuka II's deck crew hate his guts.

Hayate Immelman in Macross Delta has the good fortune to jump into a Valkyrie that was specifically designed to be easy for even average pilots to handle, but he explicitly notes that the controls (for battroid mode) are not much different from the controls for the Workroid he piloted at his day job in the Al Shahal spaceport. His fighter mode operation is lamentably bad, and he's still getting sh*t for it from his fellow pilots and the mechanics several episodes later.

All of Macross's other protagonists came into their respective shows as highly-trained pilots with loads of prior experience operating Valkyries.

- Lolies always singing Jpop, I'm quite neutral toward jPop but it's music and music and music all the episodes long and I feel I could get fed-up by this at the end

Can't be because Macross is a Japanese series and music has always been an integral part of Macross's story...

- Why does the main male character has to have blue hair?

... he's a fighter pilot, named after a famous German flying ace, whose love interest is a Jenius that flies a red plane. Do we really need to explain the obvious implications here?

- Why does the Nemesis have to cross themselves in slow motion on a Battlefield?

... what?

- How come we can foresee what's coming next (Himmelmann getting shot down, you're not skilled enough little boy / ho jeez, here's some Jpop, he's gonna win at last/ ho no he passed the test but here comes Grumpy, there's no music he's gonna lose/ etc...)?

Because we've seen enough Macross shows to have a good feel for the tropes used in certain situations...

- I can already say without spoiling that the good ones and the bad ones want the same thing but have different views on how achieving their goals...

This is a Macross series after all... Macross doesn't do irredeemable villains.

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But there's clearly something between Messer and Kaname. The only reason nothing's happened yet is that the former has heard that the latter makes a mean Pineapple Salad.

Messer and Kaname? Let me watch this episode again...

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