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Macross General SCOOPUDA thread


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On 11/18/2022 at 10:46 AM, wm cheng said:

Perhaps this conversation is better in another thread - is there an old timers OG thread somewhere that I can get caught up on how Macross has evolved over the years?  Ouch my back!!!  I feel so old and out of touch!

An old timers thread would be a good idea: A safe space for men and women who still think that Macross II is the new Macross, and are unable to make any coherent comment about Delta what so ever.

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Here's a comment about old and new Macross.

Old Macross was made by young guys inspired by anime that they were fanboys of.  New Macross is made by corporate suits that sees anime as part of marketing tool for music sales and other products.

Same deal with the original Star Wars and every franchise that has a sequel.  First one is usually the best one because the creators just want to tell a story that is good fun. Twenty years later its all business.  Sometimes there's a gem found among the corporate made sequels but most of it is just a commercial.

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4 hours ago, Roy Focker said:

Here's a comment about old and new Macross.

Old Macross was made by young guys inspired by anime that they were fanboys of.  New Macross is made by corporate suits that sees anime as part of marketing tool for music sales and other products.

Same deal with the original Star Wars and every franchise that has a sequel.  First one is usually the best one because the creators just want to tell a story that is good fun. Twenty years later its all business.  Sometimes there's a gem found among the corporate made sequels but most of it is just a commercial.

Isn't that what all franchises are? Which Macross now is...

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That was just an old timer making an incoherent comment. Fans of the latest offerings from a franchise will think it is good simply because they already fans. Production values and all the visuals have improved. There are more incredible action-packed scenes that will leave you speechless. Take all flash away and there's rest is pretty weak. For many fans of the new that big action scene makes up for any flaws. As fan who are emotionally invested, they'll often aggressively defended it.  

Going back to the originals you've got a really good foundation, but everything looks bad. That was a one of the greatest classic movies all time but, you could see all the wires and some of the jokes wouldn't be allowed today. Old timers say that current version "blank" isn't good because all it is using a recognizable name brand with whatever is currently popular at the time.  Franchises like DC, Marvel and Star Wars (Macross too) overall aren't that good. We'll think they are because of a few memorable scenes. A couple of them will actually have good story supporting it. Most don't but they all look great. The movies/shows that rises above the rest of these franchise tends to be the ones that are allowed to depart from the formula and do not follow whatever is currently popular right now.

Now I'm going to back to yelling at clouds.

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6 hours ago, Roy Focker said:

Old Macross was made by young guys inspired by anime that they were fanboys of.  New Macross is made by corporate suits that sees anime as part of marketing tool for music sales and other products.

Both old and new Macross were made by "corporate suits that see anime as a marketing tool for music sales and other products".  All anime, and really all mass media, is.

We call those corporate suits "producers" or "members of the production committee".  They're the ones putting up the cash for the work to be produced/published in order to make money on its distribution and licensing.  Anime makes most of its money from licensed merchandise, after all.  Even the original Super Dimension Fortress Macross was very much driven by the sponsor's desire to sell licensed toys, model kits, character goods, and many other kinds of merchandise and reap the financial rewards.

All that's really changed from then to now is Big West is no longer inexperienced with animation production they way they were in 1982, those young guys who made the original series are not so young anymore, and Macross is now a well-established property that's experimenting with its formula and chasing media trends in order to remain relevant to its target audience like any other long-running property.

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Question from an old fart: If Delta were the first and only Macross. And there was no SDF or DYRL, would Macross have a fan following spanning the entire globe for the next 40 years?

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10 hours ago, arbit said:

Question from an old fart: If Delta were the first and only Macross. And there was no SDF or DYRL, would Macross have a fan following spanning the entire globe for the next 40 years?

Great question, being a fellow old fart - I'd say DEFINITELY NOT.

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10 hours ago, arbit said:

Question from an old fart: If Delta were the first and only Macross. And there was no SDF or DYRL, would Macross have a fan following spanning the entire globe for the next 40 years?

That's kind of an impossible question to answer under normal circumstances.

Macross Delta couldn't realistically exist as Macross's first and only series because so much of its story and setting are built on, or borrowed from, previous Macross titles.  That was, IMO, a big part of why Macross Delta was such a weak series.  It made very little effort to stand on its own merits and outside of Walkure Delta's main appeal was the borrowed gloss from Macross Frontier.  Quite a few of the show's characters are terribly blatant expies of Macross Frontier characters (e.g. Hayate, Freyja, Mikumo, Arad, Keith, Roid, and staff officer Malan, etc.), the plot depends extremely heavily on the events of Macross Frontier and even rips off its ending almost whole cloth, and Freyja's motive for becoming a singer IS one of the Frontier characters, the mechanics of Walkure's operations are built on material established in 7, Zero, and Frontier, and so on.  You can't really separate Macross Delta from that the way 7 and Frontier could stand alone with just a little explaining from intro blurbs before the OP because Delta does such a terrible job of explaining itself.

If you were to remove that skeleton of previous material and the audience's foreknowledge of it, the series would devolve into a borderline incoherent mess strung together by random Walkure songs.

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13 hours ago, arbit said:

Question from an old fart: If Delta were the first and only Macross. And there was no SDF or DYRL, would Macross have a fan following spanning the entire globe for the next 40 years?

Don't want to stray too far off the thread here, but this is a GOOD question..

IMO, without too much wind(no pun intended :p),  NO. 
Plenty of reasons why. 

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20 hours ago, arbit said:

Question from an old fart: If Delta were the first and only Macross. And there was no SDF or DYRL, would Macross have a fan following spanning the entire globe for the next 40 years?

As others have said: it's an impossible question to answer.

However, I would err on the "no" side, simply because SDFM does A LOT of world building, and MD doesn't (it establishes new worlds, but they are all built on an established setting).

Case in point: SDFM goes into great detail explaining why Valkyries exist.  MD's addition is "they haven't been replaced by drone fighters because they're also used as background dancers"*.

 

* this is not a snide or snarky statement.  Kawamori-san has continually gone to great lengths to justify the existence of manned Variable Fighters to the casual viewer.  The above is the justification he came up with for MD.  My guess is that it's due to real-world developments trending towards unmanned drones.

Edited by sketchley
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You're answers are very enlightening.  It seems that you are considering Delta as continuing SDF without the basic world building, therefore it requires a built-in audience.  And this may be a matter of taste, but some audience members, like myself, prefer new world building and character and plot building to be as precise in follow ups, as in the first series.  I find that true in Hollywood movies as well, or TV series, I always prefer the build up, and rarely is the follow up as good because I specifically wish they would slow down and develop the plot and characters like they did at first. 

But this approach seems to apply to a lot of anime these days, whether it is a follow up or not, to assume we know character types and tropes. So it seems some audience members, particularly us older guys, can't buy in to the plot or characters.

Kind of like when I don't understand why in the world my kids use Steam or Discord or Tik Tok.... 😁

Edited by arbit
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Nah they're busy with lots of stuff. Macross isn't the only thing they are working on and they didn't promise it this year. I don't expect the sets before next summer at the earliest personally but I'll be glad if it is sooner.

It's easy to think things should move faster but really they gave a lot of info up front. There's not much to keep us updated on except when they are releasing, and they probably haven't decided or done the work needed to confirm when the right release window is for them. Aside maybe Delta which had subs already they are doing a lot of work to bring these shows to the west. I think it's perfectly natural to take some time.

There is some chance the Crunchyroll acquisition of RightStuf may have affected things too but I don't really think that's worth worrying about. 

I think it'll get here, just takes some time. We've waited this long already anyway lol. 

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16 minutes ago, Master Dex said:

There is some chance the Crunchyroll acquisition of RightStuf may have affected things too but I don't really think that's worth worrying about. 

I think it'll get here, just takes some time. We've waited this long already anyway lol. 

One wonders if they're going to censor certain nudity shots in Frontier and Delta...if any?

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35 minutes ago, darkranger12 said:

One wonders if they're going to censor certain nudity shots in Frontier and Delta...if any?

... there's really nothing explicit there to censor.  I have no idea why people keep acting like there is. 🙄

Crunchyroll does not censor the shows they license for streaming.  Granted, there are titles in Crunchyroll's library that are censored but that censorship was done by the studios that produced the shows to make them suitable for broadcast in Japan.  There either isn't an uncensored version available or Crunchyroll hasn't yet upgraded the version of the show that they have in their streaming library to the uncensored home video version.

Spoiler

For instance, the version of Jojo's Bizarre Adventure they have up has studio censorship of some of the more extreme/gross gory moments and of some mildly illegal stuff like Jotaro's underage smoking, but also contains uncensored partial and even full-frontal nudity in places.

 

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On 12/31/2022 at 4:05 PM, sh9000 said:

94225231-611D-4FFF-903B-FC742A97303C.jpeg.ccb6ee00e1d247115fe54b3c2a272998.jpeg

Since Mr. Kawamori included both the VF-1S and Aquarion, I wonder if this means that he is still planning on releasing more aquarion anime.

Twich

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37 minutes ago, seti88 said:

Whats this all about?

Between December 23 2022 and January 15 2023, they apparently did some kind of write-in campaign for fans to suggest new Macross model kits as part of an event to celebrate the 7th anniversary of Let's Talk at Macross Modelers.  The results of the write-in campaign/voting are being announced at 2200 on February 2nd.

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2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Between December 23 2022 and January 15 2023, they apparently did some kind of write-in campaign for fans to suggest new Macross model kits as part of an event to celebrate the 7th anniversary of Let's Talk at Macross Modelers.  The results of the write-in campaign/voting are being announced at 2200 on February 2nd.

Aha...7th anniversary...the number 7 = macross 7 image...😄japanese marketing 👍

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3 hours ago, seti88 said:

Aha...7th anniversary...the number 7 = macross 7 image...😄japanese marketing 👍

Ahem...web page in the link has an English translation. Right. On. The. Page...👇

Quote

“MACROSS MODELERS” is a branding that encompasses multiple manufacturers of MACROSS mecha and character plastic model kits.

To celebrate the 7th Anniversary of MACROSS MODELERS, we’re holding a special poll: “Let’s talk about it on MACROSS MODELERS!! Valkyrie Poll (Macross 7).”

Which Macross 7 Valkyrie is your favorite?

Results will be announced during a live-streaming program “MACROSS MODELERS” on February 2, 2023 in Japan. This episode will go live worldwide on the official Macross YouTube channel on February 9, 2023 (JST).

《POLLING PERIOD》
Begins: Dec.23 (Fri), 2022, 12:00PM- (JST)
Ends: Jan.15 (Sun), 2023, 11:59PM (JST)

《POLL RESULTS》
Feb.9 (Thu), 2023, 6PM (JST)
Results are scheduled to be announced during MACROSS MODELERS on YouTube.

 

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29 minutes ago, azrael said:

Ahem...web page in the link has an English translation. Right. On. The. Page...👇

 

Yes constantly amazed at Japan being able to tie-in anything..here it’s the macross modellers 7th anniversary..not the macross seven series anniversary per se. 🤑

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