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Macross Δ (Delta) Mecha/Technology Thread - READ 1st POST


azrael
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I think what he meant that Kawamori gave Bandai a hard time because they expected to reuse the YF-30 with minimal changes for Macross Delta. Luckily for us (well at least for me) Kawamori changed his mind and heavily redesigned the YF-30 so that we (I) can enjoy more variety on the shelfs. I think Bandai wasn't too happy about that since they had to design a whole new Valkyrie.

Way to stick it to 'em Kawamori, suck it Bandai.

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Not sure this has been mentioned yet. Saw this listing on cdjapan for the Mecha Collection Vf-171: http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/product/NEOGDS-178231

I notice it's referred to the Standard Model, Henkyou Chuuichi Type. What is Henkyou Chuuichi mean or is it a characters name?

i'm sure that's a typo. Henkyou chuuiki means remote region. Chuuichi means jr high first year lol.
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I do find it pretty interesting that NUNS are still using the VF-171 as the main frontline VF in 2067 (as shown in the prologue episode).

As an out of universe explanation, it's probably as the same reason as in Frontier, that Kawamori didn't want the use a design that too resembles the hero mecha, so he didn't base the current NUNS main VF on the YF-24 Evolution or a variant of the VF-25.

As in in-universe explanation, I guess it could be any or all of the following:

  • Cost of replacing the VF-171 is too high for NUNS outer rim fleets/planets.
  • NUNS wants to keep more advanced VFs closer to home, in case of rebellion, doesn't want more advanced designs falling into the wrong hands.
  • More advanced designs haven't filtered out to the outlying NUNS worlds/fleets yet (although other groups obviously have them, i.e. Delta & Ariel Knights).

Actually, one of the things I like about Macross is just like real life military planes, VFs remain in service for years if not decades before being replaced by a newer model.

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I do find it pretty interesting that NUNS are still using the VF-171 as the main frontline VF in 2067 (as shown in the prologue episode).

As an out of universe explanation, it's probably as the same reason as in Frontier, that Kawamori didn't want the use a design that too resembles the hero mecha, so he didn't base the current NUNS main VF on the YF-24 Evolution or a variant of the VF-25.

As in in-universe explanation, I guess it could be any or all of the following:

  • Cost of replacing the VF-171 is too high for NUNS outer rim fleets/planets.
  • NUNS wants to keep more advanced VFs closer to home, in case of rebellion, doesn't want more advanced designs falling into the wrong hands.
  • More advanced designs haven't filtered out to the outlying NUNS worlds/fleets yet (although other groups obviously have them, i.e. Delta & Ariel Knights).
Actually, one of the things I like about Macross is just like real life military planes, VFs remain in service for years if not decades before being replaced by a newer model.

I had a similar thought, but I'd have preferred to see legacy VFs in that role, like the VF-11 or even VF-4/VF-5000. (Maybe some VF-1X+s in there, too? A guy can dream.) But I suppose the Nightmare was used because it's always easier to reuse assets.

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I do find it pretty interesting that NUNS are still using the VF-171 as the main frontline VF in 2067 (as shown in the prologue episode).

[...]

As in in-universe explanation, I guess it could be any or all of the following:

  • Cost of replacing the VF-171 is too high for NUNS outer rim fleets/planets.
  • NUNS wants to keep more advanced VFs closer to home, in case of rebellion, doesn't want more advanced designs falling into the wrong hands.
  • More advanced designs haven't filtered out to the outlying NUNS worlds/fleets yet (although other groups obviously have them, i.e. Delta & Ariel Knights).
Actually, one of the things I like about Macross is just like real life military planes, VFs remain in service for years if not decades before being replaced by a newer model.

All things considered, I'd have been a little bewildered if Al Shahal hadn't been using the Nightmare Plus in 2067.

Sure, being so far out in the space boonies that it's literally in another galaxy might complicate the lines of supply for the Al Shahal NUNS garrison, but the Nightmare Plus still isn't that allfired old. It first flew in 2046, so if the VF-171's program followed the usual timing for this sort of thing, it likely entered mass production in 2048 and became the new main fighter shortly thereafter. Main VF service lifespans have been getting longer as the time gap between new VF generations grows, so I'd expect the Nightmare Plus's time as main VF to be at least as long as the Thunderbolt's (18+ years) before its inevitable replacement... especially since the 5th Generation VFs may have to cope with the scarcity of fold quartz slowing down mass production.

At 19 years in service, the VF-171 Nightmare Plus is probably nearing the end of its service life in the wealthiest parts of the galaxy, but probably has a few years left as main fighter simply because of the sheer number of them that'd have to be replaced for a new fighter to become "next main fighter".

(Not every fleet has 'em, obviously, but considering the sheer number of emigrant fleets and worlds out there and the size of their NUNS garrisons, it's highly probable there are close to a hundred thousand Nightmare Plus units in service. Replacing all of those is going to take a LONG time.)

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Plus there was a time the Ghost was considered a replacement mainline fighter then changed doctrine to a VF and Ghost combined arms doctrine after Sharon Apple.

Ragna and Windermere military forces has shown interesting advances in drone technology.

Al Shahal garrison forces may have stood a better chance with Ghosts backing the VF-171. Just depends how good Aerial Knights' jamming technology is.

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All things considered, I'd have been a little bewildered if Al Shahal hadn't been using the Nightmare Plus in 2067.

Sure, being so far out in the space boonies that it's literally in another galaxy might complicate the lines of supply for the Al Shahal NUNS garrison, but the Nightmare Plus still isn't that allfired old. It first flew in 2046, so if the VF-171's program followed the usual timing for this sort of thing, it likely entered mass production in 2048 and became the new main fighter shortly thereafter. Main VF service lifespans have been getting longer as the time gap between new VF generations grows, so I'd expect the Nightmare Plus's time as main VF to be at least as long as the Thunderbolt's (18+ years) before its inevitable replacement... especially since the 5th Generation VFs may have to cope with the scarcity of fold quartz slowing down mass production.

At 19 years in service, the VF-171 Nightmare Plus is probably nearing the end of its service life in the wealthiest parts of the galaxy, but probably has a few years left as main fighter simply because of the sheer number of them that'd have to be replaced for a new fighter to become "next main fighter".

(Not every fleet has 'em, obviously, but considering the sheer number of emigrant fleets and worlds out there and the size of their NUNS garrisons, it's highly probable there are close to a hundred thousand Nightmare Plus units in service. Replacing all of those is going to take a LONG time.)

It is possible that the mainline fighter groups are being replaced by a YF-24 model variant in the core systems and with federal forces by 2067.

However, much like how MD is trying to extend the production life of the F-18E by promoting them to other nations like Canada and Australia, a similar situation could be happening with General Galaxy and the VF-171. The aircraft is being promoted as an effective, low cost fighter to remote colonies to extend its production life for the company.

Edited by Zinjo
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It is possible that the mainline fighter groups are being replaced by a YF-24 model variant in the core systems and with federal forces by 2067.

However, much like how MD is trying to extend the production life of the F-18E by promoting them to other nations like Canada and Australia, a similar situation could be happening with General Galaxy and the VF-171. The aircraft is being promoted as an effective, low cost fighter to remote colonies to extend its production life for the company.

Probably, yes. In various print sources outside the "official setting" like Master File and Episode Archive, some of the NUNS planetary or fleet garrison forces were starting to upgrade to 5th Generation Valkyries in the early 2060's.

I'd expect that the pace of adoption is varying throughout the galaxy based on the availability of fold quartz in different regions... and the perceived need to have the latest and shiniest toys. The sheer number of Nightmare Plus units that would need to be replaced would probably give the fighter another 5-10 years as the de facto main VF of the New UN Forces.

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Isn't weird that some missiles blew a VF-171 while at the same time couldn't hurt Mikumo. The VF-171 has PPB and the reactor should have a greater output capacity than some drones.

As the VF-171 was just cannon fodder, maybe the pilot doesn't have as much experience with his machine. More experienced pilots can pilot the VF-171 more effectively in battle, as seen in Frontier.

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Isn't weird that some missiles blew a VF-171 while at the same time couldn't hurt Mikumo. The VF-171 has PPB and the reactor should have a greater output capacity than some drones.

The 171 wasnt blown up by missiles. It was blown up by the Drakens weapon which appears to be some sort of beam weaponry.

That much is fairly clear in the footage imo.

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I still think that is an actual offensive type (beam or shell firing) gunpod mounted on the VF-31's weapon pod, next to the charging system. It's in the normal position for a gunpod in fighter mode.

Plus the recently shown VF-31A line-art shows what looks to be the exact same type of gunpod on the VF-31A. We know or suspect the VF-31A is supposed to be a standard military type VF, not a custom version for supporting Walkure, so it makes sense that it would have an offensive gunpod.

However, in fighter mode the muzzle of the gunpod would be blocked by the groin piece, so I'm wondering if it can lower to clear the groin piece to fire in fighter mode and maybe even rotate like we saw the Sv-262's gunpod doing?

We've seen the recent CG art of the VF-31J in Gerwalk mode with the weapon pod in the open up position and we've also seen that magazine cover pic with the gunpod looking thing in the battroid's hand.

Graham

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It is possible the gunpod is the secondary "Heavy Weapon" whereas the arm mounted guns are the primaries.

Yeah, that's what I think too, a more powerfu, but perhaps slower firing secondary weapon, for when greater punch is needed. Perhaps a miniaturized quantum beam-gun?

Kinda analogous to the Strike Valks twin beam cannon, or the Tornado Packs dual beam turret or the YF-29's pop-up back-mounted, beam guns.

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Here's a clear and close-up a shot of the gunpod(?) detached from the weapon pod and shown in the VF-31J's hand from the cover of Figure-Oh magazine.

Sure looks like a gunpod to me, but the question is is it shell firing or an energy (beam) gun, or other?

Graham

post-11-0-11837500-1455870981_thumb.jpg

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Here's a clear and close-up a shot of the gunpod(?) detached from the weapon pod and shown in the VF-31J's hand from the cover of Figure-Oh magazine.

Sure looks like a gunpod to me, but the question is is it shell firing or an energy (beam) gun, or other?

Graham

I think it is likely that it is a beam gun since the gun-tonfas are firing shells already. Maybe it is for enemies where the standard weaponry doesn't do it.

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Some please explain to me how these magical girls ride the valkries like chariots while telling the laws of gravity and Inertia to go F themselves, they need not apply....

There is only one girl who is able to "ride the valkries like chariots while telling the laws of gravity and Inertia to go F themselves"

and her name is Mikumo

And you may already have seen in Delta Character Thread that her personal info are mysteries.

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=43426

So I think she may not be ordinary human..

Maybe android, cyborg or alien such as Protodeviln (Sivil from Macross7 also told "the laws of gravity and Inertia to go F themselves" too <_< )

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Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

It is something subjective and depends on the viewer. For example, people from the past will think of our modern technology as magic but we just take it for granted. Sure, Delta's magical girls are ridiculous but if they show what technology they use and explain it, then it won't be that much "magic" anymore. Though my primary (and perhaps, only) interest in Delta are the mecha and battles.

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There is only one girl who is able to "ride the valkries like chariots while telling the laws of gravity and Inertia to go F themselves"

and her name is Mikumo

Said Valkyrie wasn't exactly going all that fast... so she conceivably could've done what she did even without the assistance of any kind of inertial damping or augmentation.

So I think she may not be ordinary human..

Maybe android, cyborg or alien such as Protodeviln (Sivil from Macross7 also told "the laws of gravity and Inertia to go F themselves" too <_< )

Why do people keep suggesting this for every "mysterious-looking" female character? There were only seven Protodeviln to start with, three of which came down with a bad case of dead by the end of the Varauta conflict, and the remaining four left the galaxy after acquiring the ability to generate their own spiritia. Cyborg or "conventional" humanoid alien are possibilities, though. Or, as appears to be the case with the others, she may be a baseline human(oid) wearing holographically-camouflaged equipment that helps her function under the strain.

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Conversely, any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science... but what with fold song, that line is starting to blur a little.

It is something subjective and depends on the viewer. For example, people from the past will think of our modern technology as magic but we just take it for granted. Sure, Delta's magical girls are ridiculous but if they show what technology they use and explain it, then it won't be that much "magic" anymore. Though my primary (and perhaps, only) interest in Delta are the mecha and battles.

I don't know why anyone's throwing a fuss over any of that... the technology Walkure is using to do what they do isn't anything new, unprecedented, or particularly unconventional in Macross. We first saw holographic costume technology in DYRL? we saw it as an extremely compact, portable technology in Macross II: Lovers Again, and in Macross Frontier it was presented as the standard way of handling costumes and costume-changes for performers.

Fighting via fold song is not a new concept either... that was codified and quantified in Macross 7 by Dr. Chiba, who proved that it's purely scientific and that it could easily be amplified, focused, and weaponized to fight the Protodeviln. Macross Frontier refined it further by introducing a way that singers could produce fold song at detectable levels without mechanical amplification, and now it seems that Walkure is simply weaponizing it a slightly different way.

There is no magic here, and no "magical girls". You just have what's shaping up to be a five-girl group of singers doing what other singers have been doing in Macross for decades... the only difference is that they're out on the battlefield itself instead standing on the bridge of a warship, projected as a hologram out into space, or inside a Valkyrie. :p

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Said Valkyrie wasn't exactly going all that fast... so she conceivably could've done what she did even without the assistance of any kind of inertial damping or augmentation.

Why do people keep suggesting this for every "mysterious-looking" female character? There were only seven Protodeviln to start with, three of which came down with a bad case of dead by the end of the Varauta conflict, and the remaining four left the galaxy after acquiring the ability to generate their own spiritia. Cyborg or "conventional" humanoid alien are possibilities, though. Or, as appears to be the case with the others, she may be a baseline human(oid) wearing holographically-camouflaged equipment that helps her function under the strain.

Conversely, any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science... but what with fold song, that line is starting to blur a little.

I don't know why anyone's throwing a fuss over any of that... the technology Walkure is using to do what they do isn't anything new, unprecedented, or particularly unconventional in Macross. We first saw holographic costume technology in DYRL? we saw it as an extremely compact, portable technology in Macross II: Lovers Again, and in Macross Frontier it was presented as the standard way of handling costumes and costume-changes for performers.

Fighting via fold song is not a new concept either... that was codified and quantified in Macross 7 by Dr. Chiba, who proved that it's purely scientific and that it could easily be amplified, focused, and weaponized to fight the Protodeviln. Macross Frontier refined it further by introducing a way that singers could produce fold song at detectable levels without mechanical amplification, and now it seems that Walkure is simply weaponizing it a slightly different way.

There is no magic here, and no "magical girls". You just have what's shaping up to be a five-girl group of singers doing what other singers have been doing in Macross for decades... the only difference is that they're out on the battlefield itself instead standing on the bridge of a warship, projected as a hologram out into space, or inside a Valkyrie. :p

Well it wasn't until MF that we were introduced to the concept of fold waves and song traveling along them. M7 didn't really explain that at all. It was mostly rainbow music beams that had tangible properties, which is where my suspension of disbelief was thoroughly broken.

The tech seen in the MD preview has been sufficiently explained on these forums, unless the production explanation goes afield of what we've managed to figure out.

Edited by Zinjo
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Why do people keep suggesting this for every "mysterious-looking" female character? There were only seven Protodeviln to start with, three of which came down with a bad case of dead by the end of the Varauta conflict, and the remaining four left the galaxy after acquiring the ability to generate their own spiritia. Cyborg or "conventional" humanoid alien are possibilities, though. Or, as appears to be the case with the others, she may be a baseline human(oid) wearing holographically-camouflaged equipment that helps her function under the strain.

Well, I think I should have used this sentence instead "...or an alien with similar abilities to Protodeviln.." :p

And its because of her movement, how she survived missiles attacks without any scratch and her unknown info

that made me think that she may not be just an ordinary human.

Not just her mysterious-looking female character (and I don't think that Mikumo is a mysterious-looking female character at all).

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In regards to Mikumo, I'm in the "she's a cyborg, or something" camp. It would best explain how she could ride that valkyrie while in combat, and was so easily able to control the drones with a flick of her finger. Earlier in the episode, you could see that she was talking to her finger when communicating with her team members. Her hair is also pretty strangely-shaped in some of the pictures.

I know that some of that could be explained with reasonable assumptions. I'm just saying that Occam's Razor can easily apply; the simplest explanation is probably the correct one.

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