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4 hours ago, tekering said:

That's what dissuaded me from preordering. <_<

You also know me, and if Hasbro doesn't correct it I won't rule-out making my own proper face/chin sculpt. I'm also thinking they might want to consider changing the silver to light grey, as well as making the body parts a tad more orange. I think those are reasonable and realistically achieved tweaks.

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7 hours ago, captain america said:

I won't rule-out making my own proper face/chin sculpt. I'm also thinking they might want to consider changing the silver to light grey, as well as making the body parts a tad more orange.

I thought it was too early to point out how disturbingly off-color the prototype is... but now that you mention the silver, I wonder if they actually chose to paint it that mustard yellow color?  :huh:

Whoever resculpts the face will hopefully err in the direction of Fewture's EX Gokin Unicron:

unicronhead-07.jpg

This one exaggerates all the right features for me.  :wub:

 

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Including a head/face swap gimmick to give Unicron a more movie accurate head with the 'stache and beard would be a cool incentive. The sail barge is really the only true litmus test for this, and I believe Hasbro added on a number of nifty things after it was funded, so there is hope in that sense. This campaign just needs to cross the finish line first to see what extras are in store.

Personally, speaking to the Fewture sculpt, I can do without the high cheek bones, the very human nose, and the tongue. I think those take the face too far in the other extreme.

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Given the lack of backers this far into the campaign, especially with the SDCC exposure to help drive it, I'm beginning to lose hope of it's getting produced.  For the price, I don't think a lot of fans feel it has the requisite refinement, and I can go along with that. I wish it had some better engineering to hide or somehow eradicate some of the exposed panels. But, I approach it from the POV that this is a niche figure, due to his size and alt mode, who has rarely been produced as a toy over the 30 years of the franchise. And while it  is obviously a panel-former, it's also the best toy representation thus produced in both modes. If this fails, HasTak may not attempt another, believing that the demand is too low.  I think if they increased the production number to 16000 at a lower price point, say around $300, they'd maybe make quota. I think they'd also be smart to open it up to the international market- spread that net as far and wide as possible. 

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1 hour ago, M'Kyuun said:

I think if they increased the production number to 16000 at a lower price point, say around $300, they'd maybe make quota.

Bobby Skullface brought up something I didn't consider: that HasLab would proceed even if it didn't hit 8,000 backers.

Don't think it would be the case, but it is a possibility.

Edited by nhyone
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Not to derail the Unicron discussion, but I was digging through some boxes and I found my copy of Classics Grimlock.  What a weird little figure that was!  The robot had some interesting ideas that, presumably due to the engineering at the time and the fact that it's only a Deluxe, didn't play out so great.  It's ultimately too small, and not very Grimlock-esque.  But the dino mode is actually pretty great!

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1 hour ago, mikeszekely said:

I found my copy of Classics Grimlock.  What a weird little figure that was!

It was all about modern re-imaginings, back then.  I loved the full-on Dome Zero Classics Rodimus.

rodimus_alt_1199643333.jpg

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I think Classics Grimlock is a really cool modernization of the original character. I thought the robot mode, like most of the Classics line, pulled enough from the original toy be recognizable as such while still doing its own cool thing. The "tailwhip" just sucked, though.

I'd love to see a larger version. I wish the Classics line, as a whole, had seen a larger budget.

 

 

My Classics Grimlock is actually still on display. He's standing alongside my non-canon combiner Dino-Soar(which I still absolutely love), opening a Matrix swiped from (a broken) MP-1 Prime at Universe(I think) Unicron's shin while Dino-Soar holds the big orange guy off with an energy sword(that I swiped from something forgotten at present).

 

The takeaways from this scene are:

1. A tyrannosaurus comes up almost to Unicron's knee, and a space shuttle/dinosaur combiner is large enough to engage a planetbot in melee combat. Scale is for chumps.

2. Stealing parts makes scenes more awesome.

3. Him Grimlock have touch!

 

 

And yeah, I'd like a nicer Unicron, but... not for six hundred bucks.

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4 hours ago, JB0 said:

And yeah, I'd like a nicer Unicron, but... not for six hundred bucks.

If I had $600 to spend on a single figure... frankly I still wouldn't get this, I'd much rather get another doll. but I respect anyone who loves Unicron enough to say 'Yes I need this in my life'

Edited by anime52k8
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I'm on the fence. I think it's a beautiful and bold toy but I had to sell Titan class Metroplex because he was too much of a bear to store and I never grabbed Fort Max or Trypticon and figured I'd pass on Omega Supreme which are all in my wheelhouse... I just don't have the space.

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I'm willing to spend the $600, but it's not garnering much support.  We're about 8 days in and only 1778 votes as of this morning. I thought those numbers would see a brief surge to at least 2000 after SDCC, but nope. Ah well, I've lived without it this long, I'll get my $600 back, and Zeta looks like they've got one in the works, with a better head sculpt, I might add.

10 hours ago, mikeszekely said:

Not to derail the Unicron discussion, but I was digging through some boxes and I found my copy of Classics Grimlock.  What a weird little figure that was!  The robot had some interesting ideas that, presumably due to the engineering at the time and the fact that it's only a Deluxe, didn't play out so great.  It's ultimately too small, and not very Grimlock-esque.  But the dino mode is actually pretty great!

Classics Grimlock was, indeed, weird. I got him, but I never cared for his design much at all. Some figs grow on you over time, but he never did. I appreciated some of the departures they made across the line, but Grimlock just didn't look or feel like Grimlock to me. I thought Hot Rod was one of the better figs back then, at least in terms of resembling the character. His articulation, especially in the arms, left somewhat to be desired. I still think his car mode looks great, and I love the Batmobile-like turbine exhaust in the back. It made for a unique, if non-canon, gun. I think it still retains its charm. Classics Mirage, Bumblebee, Hound, and RTS Jazz are four of my all time favorite figures- they all carry the essence of the characters well, as well as just being fun figures to play with, pose, and display.

JBO, in mentioning Dino-Soar, I was thinking of the X-20 Dyna-Soar experimental plane. Once you mentioned dino and shuttle, I figured out that it was a 3P Sky Lynx. Sharp like the leading edge of a bowling ball I am. 

I get the sense that in another decade or so, we'll still be looking back fondly on many of the Siege figures either for their fun factors, their faithfulness to the G1 characters, or both, in some cases. I'm glad that we're finally getting characters that either haven't been made since G1, or have never been done before. I hope they do the Omnibots, which, like Reflector, were by mail exclusives back in the 80s. I only had Downshift, but I'd love to have all three in updated form. Fingers crossed.

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30 minutes ago, M'Kyuun said:

I'm willing to spend the $600, but it's not garnering much support.  We're about 8 days in and only 1778 votes as of this morning. I thought those numbers would see a brief surge to at least 2000 after SDCC, but nope. Ah well, I've lived without it this long, I'll get my $600 back, and Zeta looks like they've got one in the works, with a better head sculpt, I might add.

Not based on the most recent pics I've seen.

Also, if the Haslab project fails, guess who might very well bear the brunt of a legal smackdown? Seemingly not content to produce much beloved figures of characters that Hasbro/Takara have chosen to ignore, 3P companies are starting to play a dangerous game of chicken. It's not wise to poke the bear.

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TFSource is taking preorders for Hasbro's Unicron... at the low, low price of $780.  I guess that's what's happening if the crowdfunding fails.  

Anyway, regarding the old Classics... yeah, they were reimagining, for sure.  But a generic yellow hatchback still worked for Bumblebee, and he still looked like Bumblebee with his car roof belly and his car front feet, even with the hoodie.  Tossing a wing on the back of a Dome Zero gets your a car that's actually not too far off from Hot Rod.  But Grimlock, I dunno, I wasn't feeling it.  The big red orb on his chest and the large chunk of dinosaur making up his feet and lower legs don't exactly say Grimlock to me.  Maybe it would have helped it if were red instead below his chest through his pelvis, if his hips were black instead of gray, or if more of his black thighs were showing.  His head is a great Grimlock head, but put almost any other head on there and he could have been a long-lost sixth dinobot (or eight, if we're counting Slash and Paddles).  Which... kind of isn't a bad idea.

Edited by mikeszekely
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13 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

JBO, in mentioning Dino-Soar, I was thinking of the X-20 Dyna-Soar experimental plane. Once you mentioned dino and shuttle, I figured out that it was a 3P Sky Lynx. Sharp like the leading edge of a bowling ball I am. 

Official Sky Lynx. Combiner Wars Sky Lynx for the torso with the Power of the Primes dinobots for limbs. 

My affection for the "character" is a bit of a problem. I don't always explain what in Primus' name Dino-Soar is because I forget everyone else didn't do this.

Edited by JB0
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Give me a resonably-sized/priced Unicron, with his iconic beard, and I'm interested.  I'm not interested in a 30-in (deeper than any shelf or chest I own) $$$$$$$ square-chinned version. 

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10 hours ago, mikeszekely said:

TFSource is taking preorders for Hasbro's Unicron... at the low, low price of $780.  I guess that's what's happening if the crowdfunding fails.  

I thought they provide this as a service for overseas customers? They will back the project on your behalf, for a small $200 handling fee, and that is excluding shipping.

Edited by nhyone
Changed $205 to $200
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16 minutes ago, nhyone said:

I thought they provide this as a service for overseas customers? They will back the project on your behalf, for a small $205 handling fee, and that is excluding shipping.

Correct. I hope it helps... the campaign still has a LONG way to go.

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I had to call Gamestop to see what was up after eight days and no shipping notice came, but I finally got my order.  Now, due to the crossover nature of this figure and the emphasis on vehicle mode I'm going to do this review a little backward, but this is Ectotron, the original character designed for 2019's Transformers/Ghostbusters collaborative and the star of IDW's Transformers Ghostbusters miniseries.

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I don't usually bother by talking about the box, but lemme start by saying that I love the packaging.  Like Walmart's G1 reissues it's a throwback to the old G1 packaging from the '80s, with the character art on the front of the window box packaging, the grid in the background, and the black at the top switching to red at the bottom.  On the back you've got the classic painting of the Transformers fighting that graced so many of the toys back in the day behind the old-school tech specs, which are plainly readable (and sadly Ectotron doesn't come with one of those red strips you used to decode the specs on the old toys).

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Freed from it's nostalgic trappings, we're greeted with a pretty good-looking Ecto-1.  Lots of details from the repurposed '59 Cadillac Miller-Meteor ambulance are here, inlcuding the whitewall tires, the trio of blue lights on the front (metallic paint), and the red tail lights on the fins (a mix of metallic paint and translucent plastic).  The grill, front bumper, rear bumper, and Cadillac V on the front are all painted silver with clear plastic over the lights.  The rear door has accurate molded details for the handle and the... I don't know, I guess it's a vent?  But a little silver could have made the handle and the window trim pop, as well as some metallic red behind the larger lights on the rear bumper.  Plus it's missing a no-ghost symbol on the door and the rear Ecto-1 license NY license plate. I'm also a little confused as to why they put the blue paint on the front lights, but not the two on the rear or of the roof.

Arguably the biggest departure is the junk on the roof.  I could pick out all the inaccuracies, but given what's going on here I think it I'd prefer to focus on what they did right.  Like, Ecto-1 does indeed have a ladder and a hose on one side, although they're molded together as a single black piece here.  It should have that gold cable running front the roof the car's antenna, although it'd have been nice if they'd made it a little longer.  Ecto-1 does have the thick blue cable on the other side.  Ectotron's roof also has a long canister on the ladder side, although it should properly be yellow.  The pair of yellow compressed air tanks are present and painted on the other side, they're somewhat obscured large apparatus that doesn't appear on the actual car.  The top does have the "sniffer", although here it's red and black instead of red and white, the modified marine radome antenna (although again the strut it sits on is black instead of white), and the translucent half-dome directional dish.

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Basically, aside from a few missing details, it's a very good, mostly accurate representation of Ecto-1.  I just wish some of the seams fit together a little tighter in this mode.

As far as scale goes, I know that the Miller-Meteor is a pretty large vehicle.  I get the sense, though, that if you're going to display it with other Generations or Studio Series figures that it might be a little too big, but definitely too small to go with MPs.

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Of course, if all you wanted was a reasonably accurate Ecto-1 you could save a lot of money and just grab the 1/24 Jada (or spend a bit more and get the much more accurate 1/18 Autoworld one).  We're interested in this one because it turns into Ectotronymous Diamatron, an Autobot who encounters the Ghostbusters while tracking a Cybertronian signal on earth (that turns out to be Starscream's ghost after Gozer destroyed Cybertron).  As an original design he definitely captures the look of the comic book, or rather, the comic book accurately captures the toy.  Take your pick.  While there's lots of white in this mode, there's also plenty of tan on his chest, thighs, and biceps to mimic the Ghostbusters' uniforms.  He's even got a name tag on his left breast, and some silver panels that look like a belt running through loops.  Despite the box (and comics) stating that Ectotron's an Autobot there are no Autobot insignias on him.  Size-wise, he's a bit taller than Siege Prime, which I don't hate, but he's technically too big per the comics.

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Ectotron is actually a heavy remold of Combiner Wars Hot Spot/Onslaught.  That means he basically transforms the same way: by folding his head into his chest, shortening his legs, sticking his arms together over his head, and laying down.  Apparently, how you get from Onslaught to Ecto-1 is mostly shelforming.  Sure, he gets new lower legs, but much of the top of the car is just sitting on his back, with the sides folded up alongside, and the entire front end folding up into large shoulder pads.

And yeah, about that "most of the roof" thing.  Yep, there's a big gap in the middle of his back.

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This is kind of a neat bit, and it makes me forgive the little inaccuracies regarding the junk on the roof rack.  See, the roof rack comes off, taking the gold and blue cables with them.  Then the whole thing folds over itself, turning into a proton pack.

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The proton pack plugs right back onto Ectotron's back, and the thrower can even plug into the side for storage.  While it's got tons of molded detail I kind of feel like Hasbro cheaped out on the paint here, especially on the thrower.  There's just two silver circles here.  None of the lights, wires, or warning labels are painted.  As for the thrower, it's just cast in black plastic with no paint.  Again, a little silver in spots and some color on the wires would have really made it pop.

The thrower does have a handle sticking out the back, and it can fit into Ectotron's hands.  However, due to a lack of wrist articulation, he can't really pose like he's using it that way.

IMG_20190723_185012.jpg.b100b9965b669fb97448ac2223fd972f.jpg

To compensate for it, the thrower has a second 5mm peg on the underside, allowing him to hold it like a regular gun.  I can live with that, since to my mind it's not so much an actual proton pack and thrower as it is Cybertronian technology integrating his weapon and body and mimicking a proton pack and thrower.

That said, like the toys that he's remolded from, Ectotron's articulation isn't great compared to more recent figures from the Siege line.  His head seems to be on a ball joint, but the ball is almost totally enclosed so he can only look up slightly and turn his head.  His shoulders can rotate, but only about 90 degrees forward because his shoulders don't clear the windshield on his back.  He can also move his shoulders a bit over 90 degrees laterally on two joints.  He's got a double-jointed elbow so he can curl almost 180 degrees, andhis bicep swivel is located between the elbow joints.  As mentioned before, there's no wrist articulation, which is a shame.  There's also no waist articulation.  His hips can move a little over 90 degrees forward but only a little backward due to his back kibble.  They can also move out laterally about 90 degrees on a very soft ratchet.  His thighs swivel, and he can bend his knees 90 degrees.  I think the knees are a little on the loose side, but it should be noted that they're not as problematic as Onslaught and Hot Spot's.  His toes can tilt up for transformation, but he's not no ankle pivot.

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Aside from his roof rack/proton pack, Ectotron comes with this little translucent rubbery green Slimer.  Slimer has a little hole in his butt that can sit on a peg on the thrower when it's on the roof, and that's about all Slimer can do.  I'm going to put him back in the box and lament that he didn't come with a PKE meter or ghost trap instead.

And there you have it, folks.  Ectotron is an idea that sounds amazing on paper and does do a good job of being an Ecto-1, which is perhaps the main draw of this figure.  But the decision to remold a Combiner Wars figure with lousy articulation instead of coming up with some original engineering is a bit disappointing.  I especially feel like, when they're charging $50 for a remold of a $25 toy they could have done more to fix the original toy's problems by adding basic essentials like ankle pivots and wrist swivels.  I also feel like some of the details on the proton pack should have been painted at this price.  So for $50 I think you're getting a great Ecto-1 but a pretty mediocre Transformer.  Like I said earlier, you can get a 1/32 Jada Ecto-1 for around $20, and a part of me wants to tell you that's a better buy if you're a Ghostbusters fan.  If I'm being honest, though, if they remold the roof rack, maybe toss in that PKE meter and trap I wanted, and repaint Ectotron in Ecto-1A colors I'd probably buy it. 

And on a hypothetical level I love the concept of taking iconic vehicles and turning them into Transformers.  It's the kind of obvious move you wonder why Hasbro didn't think of it sooner when they were instead doing Marvel and Star Wars Transformers.  If Hasbro were to continue with these Transfomer X crossovers I'd love transforming versions of KITT, the A-Team's van, the Back to the Future Delorean, Herbie, and the General Lee.  I'd maybe go for Airwolf, the Coyote X, the TMNT Party Wagon, the Mystery Machine, and some version of the Batmobile.

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1 hour ago, nhyone said:

I thought they provide this as a service for overseas customers? They will back the project on your behalf, for a small $205 handling fee, and that is excluding shipping.

Oh, ok.  Yeah, I just saw the listing when I went to order something else, I didn't look at the details.  But how's that supposed to work if Hasbro's limiting orders to 5?

41 minutes ago, anime52k8 said:

The party wagon, bat-mobile and General Lee will 100% never happen.

Yeah, now that I think about it, DC and Mattel are still a thing, so that's out.  The party wagon, though... on the surface, sure, Playmates has a license for TMNT.  But other toy companies like NECA and Bandai are also making TMNT toys, so I don't think Playmate's license automatically precludes something like this.  Especially when Hasbro and IDW are tight, and IDW is doing the TMNT comics.

Why not the General Lee, though?  Just because of the Confederate flag on the roof?  AFAIK companies making replicas of the General Lee just stopped putting the flag on the roof as far back as 2012. 

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2 hours ago, mikeszekely said:

Oh, ok.  Yeah, I just saw the listing when I went to order something else, I didn't look at the details.  But how's that supposed to work if Hasbro's limiting orders to 5?

I don't know, how many employees does BBTS have?

:edit:

Also, my first thought with the general lee was the confederate flag, but now I'm also thinking the fact it's a Dodge charger might make licensing tricky. I guess it's not out of the question but it might be more trouble than it's worth.

Anyways, as far as iconic vehicles to turn into robots; I'd like to see a Mach 5 and an LAPD Spinner.

Edited by anime52k8
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3 hours ago, JB0 said:

They've done GI Joe X Transformers to death, but what about Transformers X MASK?

You clearly haven't been following the comics.  :p

Revolution02_cvrA.jpg

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9 hours ago, anime52k8 said:

but now I'm also thinking the fact it's a Dodge charger might make licensing tricky. I guess it's not out of the question but it might be more trouble than it's worth.

I'd think licensing would be small potatoes. I didn't pick up Studio Series Shatter and can't double check the box, but she turned into a Plymouth GTX, and the second, upcoming SS Dropkick is an AMC Javelin. Plymouth was always a Chrysler brand, and AMC was bought out by Chrysler in 1990, and Dodge had been a Chrysler brand since basically forever.

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3 hours ago, mikeszekely said:

I'd think licensing would be small potatoes. I didn't pick up Studio Series Shatter and can't double check the box, but she turned into a Plymouth GTX, and the second, upcoming SS Dropkick is an AMC Javelin. Plymouth was always a Chrysler brand, and AMC was bought out by Chrysler in 1990, and Dodge had been a Chrysler brand since basically forever.

 

I managed to completely forget that those two characters and their toys even existed. I feel a little dumb now.:fool:

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16 hours ago, mikeszekely said:

Oh, ok.  Yeah, I just saw the listing when I went to order something else, I didn't look at the details.  But how's that supposed to work if Hasbro's limiting orders to 5?

 

For what it's worth, the Hasbro Pulse page says 5 per transaction. Presumably BBTS or any other retailer doing this could just place orders in batches of 5 as they come in.

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Wonder if they'd include another accurate head for Unicron.  Hadn't noticed that. Still on the fence. Would probably put it on my CC anyway.   I'd be kinda for a hoping for a second damaged "moon" head anyway with broken eyes and/or horns.  

 

Speaking of which, looking over all the shots makes me most worried some of the spikes on Unicron's arms might break off, etc.   Also would have preferred the gimmick to open and close the planet jaws would be on the other side by the legs somewhere than turning the ring. 

Edited by Uxi
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On 7/24/2019 at 9:47 AM, JB0 said:

Indeed I haven't. My eyes are cartoon hearts at the sight of that.

I am an admin on a spin-off of the TFWiki that catalogued the 2016-2018 shared comic universe. You may find more information on Brandon Easton's M.A.S.K. here:

http://idwhasbro.shoutwiki.com/wiki/M.A.S.K.:_Mobile_Armored_Strike_Kommand

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For some reason, I love it when a character pops up in both the Siege line and the Studio Series line.  While the Decepticons haven't been doing so hot there, with just Megatron and Starscream so far (with Thundercracker and Barricade coming), the Autobots are faring much better.  Assuming I can get my hands on the Walgreens-exclusive Ratchet then Grimlock, Jazz, and Bumblebee are the only Studio Series figures that don't have Siege counterparts.

Of course, we can look beyond Siege.  Previous Generations lines have covered most of the pantheon of G1 characters by now.  The Decepticons are still pretty messy, mind you- that's what happens when you pick G1 names out of a hat.  You wind up naming your bulldozer after a tiger, because you gave the G1 bulldozer's name to a minesweeper.  For the Autobots, though, I think the recent Titans Return Bumblebee, while not an amazing toy, is a reasonable fit in terms of scale and aesthetics.  As for Jazz, RTS Jazz is still one of the better Transformers toys to come out of Hasbro pre-Siege.  If you're looking for something with a more Cybertronian vibe there's the Fall of Cybertron Deluxe Jazz, who isn't as good but scales perfectly.  And if you missed out on both of those you can still find Power of the Primes Jazz relatively easily, and although I think the alt mode doesn't exactly scream Jazz (how has it not been repainted as Crasher?) I do think it kind of fits with the Siege aesthetic.

That just leaves Grimlock.  Now, over the years, Hasbro's give us a few Grimlocks in a few different lines.  Can any of them serve as a Siege Grimlock?  Let's take a look at three official options: Deluxe-class Classics Grimlock (2006), Voyager-class Fall of Cybertron Grimlock (2012), and Voyager-class Power of the Primes Grimlock (2017).

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Each figure brings something different to the table, aesthetically.  Now, regardless of their "spaceship" alt modes the aesthetics of the Siege line have skewed heavily toward the G1 cartoon, so the obvious first choice seems like it would be Power of the Primes Grimlock.  And in robot mode it's a bit barrel-chested, and he's got some extra kibble on his butt, but it does seem like it pulls off the robot mode fairly well.  I'd contrast that with the Classics toy.  The original Classics line often tried reinventing the wheel, and while there were definite hits like Prime, Mirage, and Hot Rod there were plenty of misses, and I'd argue that Grimlock was one of them.  Even if I ignore the kibble on his forearms and back I just don't feel like he looks enough like Grimlock to me, with a lack of red in the torso and most of the black on his thighs covered by the dinosaur torso that comprises his legs.  Don't get me wrong, I think it's an interesting design and a fairly well-executed figure (for the time), but it's just not Grimlock enough.

Speaking of missing red on the torso and black on the thighs, there's the Fall of Cybertron toy.  The missing colors on that figure are head-scratching at first, since the Fall of Cybertron design actually calls for a large portion of the torso to be red and the thighs to be black or gunmetal, but this toy came at a time when Hasbro was desperate to cut costs.  Color isn't the only way this figure suffered from the budget crunch.  Much of his torso and lower legs are totally hollow, although this does give him spaces to tuck in his dinosaur head and the tips of his tail.  And the sculpt is pretty game-accurate, so rather than focus on how the toy suffers I appreciate what they were able to do despite the budget crunch.  It's a decent enough robot that I think it stays in the running with PotP Grimlock.

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We should also consider articulation and accessories, of course.  And of course, I couldn't find one and didn't bother to photograph any of the accessories.  To sum them up, though, Classics has a missile-firing rifle with a large bayonet, and a whip that's made from his entire dino tail.  I'm not a fan of dino tail whips, and the rifle looks odd without the missile inserted.  FoC Grimlock comes with the sword and shield he uses in the game, and no gun at all.  PotP Grimlock comes with combiner feet.  I guess we're supposed to use our imaginations and pretend that they're some sort of weapons.  I'd say that FoC wins the accessory round, although none of them have Grimlock's signature rifle.  And for what it's worth they all have 5mm peg holes for fists, so you can pair any of them with Siege Micromasters, Battle Masters, or chunks of Weaponizers, as well as anything you might choose to pick up from Shapeways.

Regarding articulation, they're all fairly close.  Their shoulders, elbows, thighs, knees, and hips all have similar range, except PotP Grimlock has double-jointed elbows for a tighter curl.  PotP is also the only one with a waist swivel, although Classics swivels under the chest due to transformation.  None of them have wrist swivels or ankle pivots.  FoC Grimlock can tilt his fists down for transformation, though, which is useful for sword-wielding characters.  He's also got a bit of butterfly motion in the shoulders.  I'd say that technically PotP Grimlock wins for articulation, but FoC Grimlock looks less awkward posing due to better overall proportions.

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Given that we're exploring which figure to use with Siege, and the Siege figures are supposedly in-scale with each other, we should take a minute to consider their sizes.  And when we do, Classics is too short, standing halfway between Red Alert and Optimus Prime.  PotP is too short, standing eye-to-eye with Prime.  FoC Grimlock is the only one taller than Prime, but even then it's maybe half a head.  I'd say that's probably still too short, but the closest of the three to "correct" (scale being in the eye of the beholder, after all).

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Things get a bit more interesting in dinosaur mode.  Once again, PotP Grimlock is clinging to G1 and going for the scientifically-outdated upright, lumbering look, while Classics and FoC are presenting somewhat more accurate dino modes, so which you prefer aesthetically might have a lot to do with whether you want Grimlock to look as geewunny as possible or whether you like a more updated design.  I kind of like the updated look, but if I'm being honest PotP Grimmy isn't being helped by the fact that his alt mode more than his robot mode, is really suffering for combiner gimmick.  Like he's fine from the waist up, but from the waist down he's got horribly tiny thighs and huge, chunky calves.  His butt is still covered with the combiner pelvis.  And instead of folding over like the G1 toy, which would have given the tail a nice taper, his overly large robot chest forms and overly large dino pelvis to cover the robot thigh, then his lower legs just stick out the back.  His tail has basically no taper, just a bump for his robot feet followed by a tiny tip.

FoC Grimlock is a little better.  From his head to the base of his tail he's again pretty accurate to the game, if a little short.  Like PotP, though, his lower legs form the tail with the knees at the base tapering to his feet sitting over the exposed tip.  There's at least some taper, but it does make his tail look extremely thick.  Also, remember how I mentioned his dino head filled up his mostly-hollow robot torso?  With the dino head unfurled that hollow space is just an empty void.  While it's mostly his underbelly now, it's still pretty noticeable from the front.

Classics Grimlock has the best dinosaur mode.  I'm not a fan of the pillar on his back for mounting his rifle, his feet are a little big, and his head looks more like a gator than a T-Rex to me, but his proportions on the whole are pretty good, and the kibble that was on his back helps fill in his dino torso, giving him an almost organic shape.  Classics Grimlock also benefits from having his tail as a separate accessory, as he's the only one with tail articulation.  That articulation is enough to curl it around into a half-circle, or to give him a nice S-bend.

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Speaking of dino articulation, Classics wins all around.  All three of them have little ball-jointed arms with no dino elbow or wrist, and none of them can turn their heads or turn at the waist.  Classics and PotP can look up and down or open their jaws, as well as spread their legs.  All three use their robot bicep swivels as thigh swivels.  FoC has the one knee bend; the ankle bend is sculpted into the figure and not a joint.  The other two have two joints, plus Classics has a bend at the foot.

While FoC can't bend at the neck or keep his mouth open, he does have a button on his neck that makes his mouth open and light up.  So, minus points for limited dino articulation, but bonus points for having the chomping action.

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Despite their differences in robot size they're all pretty close in dino mode, although you can tell that Classics is carrying less mass.  Still, I don't see Prime riding on any of these Grimlocks any time soon.

So who's the winner, then?  If you put a gun to my head and told me to pick one of these three figures to put with my Siege collection I think I'd go with Fall of Cybertron Grimlock.  In robot mode he's got the best size, the best proportions, and the best accessories, I think.  While Classics Grimmy definitely wins for alt mode his robot mode is just too far off.  And PotP Grimmy suffers far too much from having the combiner gimmick shoehorned in.

That said, all three figures have more than a few flaws, and when looked at in light of the improvements in aesthetics and articulation that Siege has brought to Hasbro's mainline figures I'm really not comfortable using any of them as a Siege stand-in.  This does not mean, however, that all hope is lost.  Keep an eye on the unofficial Transformers thread, where in the next couple of days I hope to explore a few other Grimlock alternatives.

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