Bandai 1/60 DX Chogokin Macross Plus YF-21

[26662]

17 minutes ago, M'Kyuun said:

I still maintain a small collection of 1/60 Yamato/Arcadia valks on my desk where I get to enjoy them every day. (VF-19S Emerald Force color; VF-17, VF-4 original release, Arcadia YF-19, original Sv-51, VF-11, original VF-0, and Max's VF-1A w/ Super & Strike Parts) Bandai's Worldwide Anniversary Ver. VF-25 is the outlier on my desk, but I love the VF-25, so there you go.

Alright, Imma need to see your desk collection.  I'm 75% travel for work and don't have a home office, unfortunately (house is 1000 sq. ft. and we're living on top of each other as it is).  I'd kill for space enough to display some fidget-fighters.  ...next house?

Edited February 11 by 26662

[M'Kyuun]

1 hour ago, 26662 said:

Alright, Imma need to see your desk collection.  I'm 75% travel for work and don't have a home office, unfortunately (house is 1000 sq. ft. and we're living on top of each other as it is).  I'd kill for space enough to display some fidget-fighters.  ...next house?

[26662]

1 hour ago, M'Kyuun said:

Love everything!  The LEGOs are a perfect addition.  I could not be more jealous.  We're in Nashville where home prices are ridiculous.  I can't wait for the market to correct (God willing!) and move into a place that allows for a 2nd home office.  TY for sharing!

[Chronocidal]

Don't mind me, just geeking out over the classic space sets I see nestled between the transformers.  

I was always sad I never actually got any sets with the classic inverted Triforce logo.  

[M'Kyuun]

1 hour ago, 26662 said:

Love everything!  The LEGOs are a perfect addition.  I could not be more jealous.  We're in Nashville where home prices are ridiculous.  I can't wait for the market to correct (God willing!) and move into a place that allows for a 2nd home office.  TY for sharing!

Thanks! This pic pretty much encapsulates my three major passions: LEGO, Transformers, and Macross.  Like you, I'm feeling the burden of lack of space- LEGO occupies a goodly chunk of space throughout my house which is only about 1600 sq feet, and I'm considering building an addition as I'm pretty much priced out of buying a bigger home here due to skyrocketing real estate prices. LEGO is booming, the sets are just getting better, and I've got about another 30 or so years of collecting before I check out, so I need some room for expansion and just to build and store my MOCs, as well as my other assorted toys.

1 hour ago, Chronocidal said:

Don't mind me, just geeking out over the classic space sets I see nestled between the transformers.  

I was always sad I never actually got any sets with the classic inverted Triforce logo.  

I have more than are pictured, but a number of them are in storage as I simply don't have the room to display them all, especially the base/station sets. There are some Blacktron sets up there, but they're hard to see b/c, well, BLACKtron. 😁

More shots of my chaotic mancave:

Edited February 12 by M'Kyuun

[David Hingtgen]

Re: Legs in the nacelles.  Am I the only one envisioning something like having the knee joints, "Z-fold up and out on several right angles", sorta like how the Yamato V2 YF-19 elbows work to position the forearms in fighter mode?    The thighs would stay "in the belly" near the centerline, but with some hinges, you could get the calves "up and out" as needed to tuck away into the engine nacelles, at least somewhat.  (enough to slim down the back end of the plane while keeping the ankles large in battroid mode, I imagine).   

[shazam]

21 minutes ago, M'Kyuun said:

Thanks! This pic pretty much encapsulates my three major passions: LEGO, Transformers, and Macross.  Like you, I'm feeling the burden of lack of space- LEGO occupies a goodly chunk of space throughout my house which is only about 1600 sq feet, and I'm considering building an addition as I'm pretty much priced out of buying a bigger home here due to skyrocketing real estate prices. LEGO is booming, the sets are just getting better, and I've got about another 30 or so years of collecting before I check out, so I need some room for expansion and just to build and store my MOCs, as well as my other assorted toys.

I have more than are pictured, but a number of them are in storage as I simply don't have the room to display them all, especially the base/station sets. There are some Blacktron sets up there, but they're hard to see b/c, well, BLACKtron. 😁

More shots of my chaotic mancave:

Great looking collection you have there. 🤩

[Zeliard]

1 hour ago, M'Kyuun said:

Thanks! This pic pretty much encapsulates my three major passions: LEGO, Transformers, and Macross.  Like you, I'm feeling the burden of lack of space- LEGO occupies a goodly chunk of space throughout my house which is only about 1600 sq feet, and I'm considering building an addition as I'm pretty much priced out of buying a bigger home here due to skyrocketing real estate prices. LEGO is booming, the sets are just getting better, and I've got about another 30 or so years of collecting before I check out, so I need some room for expansion and just to build and store my MOCs, as well as my other assorted toys.

I have more than are pictured, but a number of them are in storage as I simply don't have the room to display them all, especially the base/station sets. There are some Blacktron sets up there, but they're hard to see b/c, well, BLACKtron. 😁

More shots of my chaotic mancave:

may i know how u get rid of all the dust? serious question...........

[Mog]

1 hour ago, David Hingtgen said:

Re: Legs in the nacelles.  Am I the only one envisioning something like having the knee joints, "Z-fold up and out on several right angles", sorta like how the Yamato V2 YF-19 elbows work to position the forearms in fighter mode?    The thighs would stay "in the belly" near the centerline, but with some hinges, you could get the calves "up and out" as needed to tuck away into the engine nacelles, at least somewhat.  (enough to slim down the back end of the plane while keeping the ankles large in battroid mode, I imagine).   

Honestly never thought of it.  But angling them up and out so they could go under the nacelle block is another option to thin out the fighter profile.  Again, it just seems Bandai went with some inelegant design choices.

One other thing to consider:  if you look at the 1/60 Yamato, the nacelle has a little divot on the outside to allow the round forearm to connect in fighter mode and to sit a little more flush.  If someone’s using the nacelle to store part of the leg, they may need to factor that divot in.

[26662]

4 hours ago, David Hingtgen said:

Re: Legs in the nacelles.  Am I the only one envisioning something like having the knee joints, "Z-fold up and out on several right angles", sorta like how the Yamato V2 YF-19 elbows work to position the forearms in fighter mode?    The thighs would stay "in the belly" near the centerline, but with some hinges, you could get the calves "up and out" as needed to tuck away into the engine nacelles, at least somewhat.  (enough to slim down the back end of the plane while keeping the ankles large in battroid mode, I imagine).   

You're in good company.  This is exactly what I was thinking when I mentioned "offsetting" the leg in an earlier post.  My concern was/remains how this bit of engineering would affect stability in gerwalk and fighter modes.  I have no doubt this would work at a larger scale.  But at this scale, I don't know.  Maybe it would be viable if we made the Z-joints out of metal and had a detent or pin to lock the knee in both configurations.

[Raikkonen]

9 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

Thanks! This pic pretty much encapsulates my three major passions: LEGO, Transformers, and Macross.  Like you, I'm feeling the burden of lack of space- LEGO occupies a goodly chunk of space throughout my house which is only about 1600 sq feet, and I'm considering building an addition as I'm pretty much priced out of buying a bigger home here due to skyrocketing real estate prices. LEGO is booming, the sets are just getting better, and I've got about another 30 or so years of collecting before I check out, so I need some room for expansion and just to build and store my MOCs, as well as my other assorted toys.

I have more than are pictured, but a number of them are in storage as I simply don't have the room to display them all, especially the base/station sets. There are some Blacktron sets up there, but they're hard to see b/c, well, BLACKtron. 😁

More shots of my chaotic mancave:

How many you pick off the floor daily? 

[M'Kyuun]

13 hours ago, David Hingtgen said:

Re: Legs in the nacelles.  Am I the only one envisioning something like having the knee joints, "Z-fold up and out on several right angles", sorta like how the Yamato V2 YF-19 elbows work to position the forearms in fighter mode?    The thighs would stay "in the belly" near the centerline, but with some hinges, you could get the calves "up and out" as needed to tuck away into the engine nacelles, at least somewhat.  (enough to slim down the back end of the plane while keeping the ankles large in battroid mode, I imagine).   

I figured the single knee joint would suffice, but a set of hinges capable of a 'z' formation to elevate the lower leg parallel to the ground may prove a more efficient design. Said second hinge could extend and retract out of the lower leg. I've got a LEGO YF-21 in early stages of design, and I may try applying these ideas. 

13 hours ago, shazam said:

Great looking collection you have there. 🤩

Thanks! Toy collecting and an incorrigible sweet tooth are my two main vices (as well as a cultivated predilection for frequent profanity), so I indulge in my hobbies. This represents 40+ years of collecting. Did anyone notice that the middle shelf above my desk is also made entirely of LEGO? There was a lot of wasted vertical space there, so I made a shelf to store more of my Classic Space sets. In retrospect, it probably would have been cheaper and less time consuming than just buying a shelf and brackets, but it was a different sort of project than I usually do, so what the heck.

12 hours ago, Zeliard said:

may i know how u get rid of all the dust? serious question...........

I pretend it doesn't exist or else I would descend into madness. I've been meaning to get a makeup brush- very soft bristles; my buddy uses one to dust his LEGO collection and I've been meaning to get one, too, as it would likely be useful on my figures as well. Just a little more care with them due to protruding and loose bits.

12 hours ago, Mog said:

Honestly never thought of it.  But angling them up and out so they could go under the nacelle block is another option to thin out the fighter profile.  Again, it just seems Bandai went with some inelegant design choices.

One other thing to consider:  if you look at the 1/60 Yamato, the nacelle has a little divot on the outside to allow the round forearm to connect in fighter mode and to sit a little more flush.  If someone’s using the nacelle to store part of the leg, they may need to factor that divot in.

If the nacelle was to be employed as a storage method for the legs, they'd likely have to be widened, and due to the arm positions in fighter, they'd naturally have to be widened towards the center, which is ideal for the legs while accounting for the arm divots. I hadn't thought of using David's 'z' type hinge arrangement, but I've long entertained the idea that those nacelles seemed the perfect way to stow the legs while keeping the overall fighter profile fairly shallow, more so than Kawamori's prescribed laterally rotated legs allow, as we've seen. Yamato's only choice in keeping with Kawamori's line art was to thin the legs out disproportionately to favor the fighter mode. It's a gorgeous fighter, but as a battroid fan, it never appealed to me, as I couldn't unsee how awkward and just wrong it looked.

8 hours ago, 26662 said:

You're in good company.  This is exactly what I was thinking when I mentioned "offsetting" the leg in an earlier post.  My concern was/remains how this bit of engineering would affect stability in gerwalk and fighter modes.  I have no doubt this would work at a larger scale.  But at this scale, I don't know.  Maybe it would be viable if we made the Z-joints out of metal and had a detent or pin to lock the knee in both configurations.

If I were designing the toy, I'd only consider using metal with stout plastic ratchet joints securely ensconced within to affect such an important set of joints. They need to be able to withstand a lot of manipulation, torque, and easily bear the weight of the toy in both battroid and GERWALK configurations. It's a lot of demand on one small area of the toy, but essential to its functionality and durability. No skimping.  I mentioned earlier a schema where the lower joint would retract into the leg, but what if both joints were connected by a short linkage which, in battroid, sits parallel to the ground: O-O  where the right hinge attaches to the upper leg and the left to the lower leg. The right hinge would allow for forward knee bend in GERWALK, the left hinge for normal knee movement in battroid, and, after rotating the leg 180 degrees at the thigh swivel, the two hinges together could be manipulated 180 degrees into David's 'z' arrangement raising the lower leg into the nacelle cavities. It's a lot of manipulation, but I think it would offer an effective result.                                                                                                                                 

4 hours ago, Raikkonen said:

How many you pick off the floor daily? 

😄None on most days. I'm quite mindful of where the really precarious things are and do my best to skirt around them. Not so my wife, who has a singular talent for always finding the one thing that's sticking out just a tad too far and knocking it over. Additionally, she has a care factor of zero, so it's of no concern if she bumps something of mine over. Actually, she's like that with just about everything- knick-knacks, whatever. I've glued a number of knick-knacks back together over the last 21 years. 

[twich]

22 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

I figured the single knee joint would suffice, but a set of hinges capable of a 'z' formation to elevate the lower leg parallel to the ground may prove a more efficient design. Said second hinge could extend and retract out of the lower leg. I've got a LEGO YF-21 in early stages of design, and I may try applying these ideas. 

Thanks! Toy collecting and an incorrigible sweet tooth are my two main vices (as well as a cultivated predilection for frequent profanity), so I indulge in my hobbies. This represents 40+ years of collecting. Did anyone notice that the middle shelf above my desk is also made entirely of LEGO? There was a lot of wasted vertical space there, so I made a shelf to store more of my Classic Space sets. In retrospect, it probably would have been cheaper and less time consuming than just buying a shelf and brackets, but it was a different sort of project than I usually do, so what the heck.

I pretend it doesn't exist or else I would descend into madness. I've been meaning to get a makeup brush- very soft bristles; my buddy uses one to dust his LEGO collection and I've been meaning to get one, too, as it would likely be useful on my figures as well. Just a little more care with them due to protruding and loose bits.

If the nacelle was to be employed as a storage method for the legs, they'd likely have to be widened, and due to the arm positions in fighter, they'd naturally have to be widened towards the center, which is ideal for the legs while accounting for the arm divots. I hadn't thought of using David's 'z' type hinge arrangement, but I've long entertained the idea that those nacelles seemed the perfect way to stow the legs while keeping the overall fighter profile fairly shallow, more so than Kawamori's prescribed laterally rotated legs allow, as we've seen. Yamato's only choice in keeping with Kawamori's line art was to thin the legs out disproportionately to favor the fighter mode. It's a gorgeous fighter, but as a battroid fan, it never appealed to me, as I couldn't unsee how awkward and just wrong it looked.

If I were designing the toy, I'd only consider using metal with stout plastic ratchet joints securely ensconced within to affect such an important set of joints. They need to be able to withstand a lot of manipulation, torque, and easily bear the weight of the toy in both battroid and GERWALK configurations. It's a lot of demand on one small area of the toy, but essential to its functionality and durability. No skimping.  I mentioned earlier a schema where the lower joint would retract into the leg, but what if both joints were connected by a short linkage which, in battroid, sits parallel to the ground: O-O  where the right hinge attaches to the upper leg and the left to the lower leg. The right hinge would allow for forward knee bend in GERWALK, the left hinge for normal knee movement in battroid, and, after rotating the leg 180 degrees at the thigh swivel, the two hinges together could be manipulated 180 degrees into David's 'z' arrangement raising the lower leg into the nacelle cavities. It's a lot of manipulation, but I think it would offer an effective result.                                                                                                                                 

😄None on most days. I'm quite mindful of where the really precarious things are and do my best to skirt around them. Not so my wife, who has a singular talent for always finding the one thing that's sticking out just a tad too far and knocking it over. Additionally, she has a care factor of zero, so it's of no concern if she bumps something of mine over. Actually, she's like that with just about everything- knick-knacks, whatever. I've glued a number of knick-knacks back together over the last 21 years. 

LOL! The lack of spousal care of our toys leads me to place my things at least 2 feet taller than my wife, but have only had one episode of things being knocked off the shelf, many a Gundam and my Bandai DX Chogokin VF-19Advance were the casualties and the head laser broke off! Super glue and a tooth pick made that fixable. Good to see you around M’Kyuun!

Twich

 

[M'Kyuun]

7 hours ago, twich said:

LOL! The lack of spousal care of our toys leads me to place my things at least 2 feet taller than my wife, but have only had one episode of things being knocked off the shelf, many a Gundam and my Bandai DX Chogokin VF-19Advance were the casualties and the head laser broke off! Super glue and a tooth pick made that fixable. Good to see you around M’Kyuun!

Twich

 

My wife and I are both short, but she's got an inch on me so I only hinder my own reach by elevating stuff. Fortunately, my wife rarely comes into my cave, so my stuff remains safe from careless jostling most of the time. She's not malicious- she doesn't do it on purpose; she just doesn't really care and if something gets knocked off or over, so be it. She just carries on doing whatever with little concern. She and I are polar opposites when it comes to caring about our possessions; I've always been pretty careful with my stuff since I was a kid. Stuff just doesn't really matter to her.

Back OT, I'm really curious what prevents the wings from folding flat into the backpack; seems a bit of depth could have been shaved had they folded flat. It's a questionable design decision.

[Mog]

It’s that design choice of deciding to use 1/3 of the bellyplates to house the legs;  it’s probably causing the backpack to be too thick and prevents the wings from folding completely flat.

If Bandai were insistent on that design choice, I would:

1) Change the proportions so that the bellyplates are 3/4 hipguard, 1/4 leg storage; and

2) Have that whole leg storage assembly flip over.

Flipping it around would allow the backpack to be a little thinner, and it could allow them to put the VTOL ventral vents on the flipped side of that backside bellyplates.

Edited February 14 by Mog

[M'Kyuun]

5 minutes ago, Mog said:

It’s that design choice of deciding to use 1/3 of the bellyplates to house the legs;  it’s probably causing the backpack to be too thick and prevents the wings from folding completely flat.

If Bandai were insistent on that design choice, I would:

1) Change the proportions so that the bellyplates are 3/4 hipguard, 1/4 leg storage; and

2) Have that whole leg storage assembly flip over.

Flipping it around would allow the backpack to be a little thinner, and it could allow them to put the VTOL ventral vents on the flipped side of that backside bellyplates.

I hadn't thought about the belly plates. Ironically, I like the choice of truncating the bit of plate hanging off the legs; however, if you're right, and I have little doubt you are, then I concur that better solutions should have been employed. Seems like a fair bit of 'good enough' was afforded this design. Dismaying.😒

[no3Ljm]

Sending all these great ideas now to Kawamori-san and Bandai-kaisha.  

 

[Mog]

Problem is Bandai hasn’t listened for years about these issues.

It just boggles the brain that the company that made a Dairugger XV/Vehicle Voltron that can faithfully replicate all its various modes and has ridiculously solid articulation is the exact same company that made this less than stellar YF-21 rendition.

[Sanity is Optional]

1 hour ago, Mog said:

Problem is Bandai hasn’t listened for years about these issues.

It just boggles the brain that the company that made a Dairugger XV/Vehicle Voltron that can faithfully replicate all its various modes and has ridiculously solid articulation is the exact same company that made this less than stellar YF-21 rendition.

To be fair, voltron has a much simpler transformation, and given the era was probably designed with implementation as a toy in mind (like Transformers).

The YF-21 was designed to look cool, with transformation accuracy a secondary concern, and toy viability not even considered.

 

I'll be happy if the YF-21 looks good in Battroid and has good articulation. Since I already have the Yamato for fighter mode.

[M'Kyuun]

5 hours ago, Sanity is Optional said:

To be fair, voltron has a much simpler transformation, and given the era was probably designed with implementation as a toy in mind (like Transformers).

The YF-21 was designed to look cool, with transformation accuracy a secondary concern, and toy viability not even considered.

 

I'll be happy if the YF-21 looks good in Battroid and has good articulation. Since I already have the Yamato for fighter mode.

A good-looking battroid is my chief concern as well, but as a DX toy, it should still be better than just average. These guys are professional toy makers with a long history; this should reflect a caliber of requisite refinement. 

[rematron]

On the wings folding flush with the inside of the backpack: Leaving the rest of the design as it is (for argument's sake) couldn't they have used a double-jointed pull-out hinge for folding and a stubby tab and slot system for stable deployment?  Then the backpack hinge plate would have room to be not as deep or even collapse a little.

Edited February 14 by rematron

[Chronocidal]

Judging by the other views of this thing.. I think the problem is actually the inverse.

I think they were forced into that giant chonker of a backpack by their overall proportions, and decided to try and make it look not so stupid by having the wings not fold flush, just so there wasn't a massive void of nothing sitting behind the torso.  Flat-folding wings is not a hard problem to solve.

That's really the thing that bugs me the most.  I really do not understand anything about the design strategy that went into this thing.  It's not even about the transformation itself, it's just the pure aesthetics.  It seems to me like there are just so many little things they could have done to improve the overall presentation, and they just chucked them all in the bin, and went "Nah, let's just leave it ugly."

[PointBlankSniper]

NGL, this looks kind of like they went through so many revisions to test ideas, that they completely forgot what the original design looks like, by the time they settled on what design points to keep.

[treatment]

fyi, in case it gets lost/buried in the PreOrder thread,

Amzn-US has just relisted the DX YF-21 as of this posting:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CRK23S71

[Chronocidal]

YEEESH... $110 markup.  

I guess that's where they make a profit.  They upcharge you over $100, and then pick slowboat shipping.  

I feel like a lot of these shops are trying to take advantage of the old status quo that gave a roughly 1/100 dollar to yen exchange rate, and hoping people don't keep tabs on current market rates.

[Sildani]

Unavailable now. 

[Anasazi37]

5 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

YEEESH... $110 markup.  

I guess that's where they make a profit.  They upcharge you over $100, and then pick slowboat shipping.  

I feel like a lot of these shops are trying to take advantage of the old status quo that gave a roughly 1/100 dollar to yen exchange rate, and hoping people don't keep tabs on current market rates.

I'm pretty sure it's Bandai jacking up the price and putting them on the slow boat. That's pretty much the same price as BBTS and most US stores carrying the preorder. $9 less than BBTS, actually. Amazon generally tries to undercut competitors, not send business to them....

[MacrossJunkie]

Wow, these markups are brutal. They're skipping the scalpers by doing it themselves.

[Shizuka the Cat]

Free US shipping though, at least.

[no3Ljm]

1 minute ago, Shizuka the Cat said:

Free US shipping though, at least.

And you can return, refund, or replaced within 30 days. 

The joy of Amazon shopping. 

[Chronocidal]

Not wrong, but still a fair chunk above most of the shipping options from Japan.

Does take a bit of the pain away if you can't manage to order one from Japan though (and don't mind waiting an extra 4+ months).

[Anasazi37]

7 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

Not wrong, but still a fair chunk above most of the shipping options from Japan.

Does take a bit of the pain away if you can't manage to order one from Japan though (and don't mind waiting an extra 4+ months).

Agreed, which is why I ordered mine from Japan. The WWM system isn't perfect, but you're right, it does give collectors more options, so I'm glad it exists. PO Madness hasn't been completely eliminated (still required for SDFM, DYRL, and TWE items), but it's not as bad as it used to be. I just wish Bandai maintained price parity instead of adding a huge markup. Other companies like Good Smile try to keep prices the same between their Japan and US online stores.

[rematron]

Release date is getting closer! 🤩

[tekering]

23 hours ago, rematron said:

Release date is getting closer! 🤩