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HG and Robotech Debates


azrael
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I guess it's not a secret anymore. That's Harmony Gold's latest project leaked onto the Internet. The obligation to pay Big West has been discharged through creative bankrupcy court so now they can use everything. The narrow aspect ratio is a feature. You turn your head to the side when watching it for 4:3. The flaws with Macross have been removed and replaced with ideas Carl Macek whispered into Tommy's ear as he was dying.

"and then... and then Alto is Lancer's son. He's really a tough Cyclone rider. Get rid of all that Japanese crap... Tommy I'm counting on you... uhhh...."

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I guess it's not a secret anymore. That's Harmony Gold's latest project leaked onto the Internet. The obligation to pay Big West has been discharged through creative bankrupcy court so now they can use everything. The narrow aspect ratio is a feature. You turn your head to the side when watching it for 4:3. The flaws with Macross have been removed and replaced with ideas Carl Macek whispered into Tommy's ear as he was dying.

"and then... and then Alto is Lancer's son. He's really a tough Cyclone rider. Get rid of all that Japanese crap... Tommy I'm counting on you... uhhh...."

LOL!!!!!!

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Why is it usually the South American regions getting Robotech and Macross confused the most? :mellow:

They're not as smart as you or I? :unsure:

I would say it's probably due to market saturation. They've probably had less imports coming from Japan. So when VFs are displayed, we see "Macross" more, they see "Robotech". It's probably why HG seems to give more love to the South American market than North America. Or because South America was an untapped market so it made it ripe for HG to move in there. It's a guess. You'll probably want to talk to our South American members.

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I guess it's not a secret anymore. That's Harmony Gold's latest project leaked onto the Internet. The obligation to pay Big West has been discharged through creative bankrupcy court so now they can use everything. The narrow aspect ratio is a feature. You turn your head to the side when watching it for 4:3. The flaws with Macross have been removed and replaced with ideas Carl Macek whispered into Tommy's ear as he was dying.

Rosebud?

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They're not as smart as you or I? :unsure:

I would say it's probably due to market saturation. They've probably had less imports coming from Japan. So when VFs are displayed, we see "Macross" more, they see "Robotech". It's probably why HG seems to give more love to the South American market than North America. Or because South America was an untapped market so it made it ripe for HG to move in there. It's a guess. You'll probably want to talk to our South American members.

Has SDF Macross or any of the US released Macross shows like Plus or II got released in South America? If not, then maybe they have never realized yet that Macross is a separate franchise.

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Has SDF Macross or any of the US released Macross shows like Plus or II got released in South America? If not, then maybe they have never realized yet that Macross is a separate franchise.

This is one Youtube video from one person, not an entire continent. Everything's been fansubbed in Spanish, and South American Robotech fans can get extremely hardcore, so I'm sure they're well aware of the differences.

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I guess it's not a secret anymore. That's Harmony Gold's latest project leaked onto the Internet. The obligation to pay Big West has been discharged through creative bankrupcy court so now they can use everything. The narrow aspect ratio is a feature. You turn your head to the side when watching it for 4:3. The flaws with Macross have been removed and replaced with ideas Carl Macek whispered into Tommy's ear as he was dying.

"and then... and then Alto is Lancer's son. He's really a tough Cyclone rider. Get rid of all that Japanese crap... Tommy I'm counting on you... uhhh...."

LOL... Just read this... for some reason I picture Tommy and Steve there with their laptops barely listening and sending each other youtube videos of kittens falling over paralyzed by loud noises...

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They're not as smart as you or I? :unsure:

I would say it's probably due to market saturation. They've probably had less imports coming from Japan. So when VFs are displayed, we see "Macross" more, they see "Robotech". It's probably why HG seems to give more love to the South American market than North America. Or because South America was an untapped market so it made it ripe for HG to move in there. It's a guess. You'll probably want to talk to our South American members.

I've been going to Chile my entire life, and lived there for 2 years. Azrael is correct in stating they have only been exposed to Roboatech while growing up. Thanks to the internet I am sure they've been able to see the original works if they choose to.

However, the most probable reason is they aren't as concerned with the Macross vs Roboatech and the average fan boi knows little behind the legalities and origins of Macross. I've had my share of A-HA moments with my buddies in Valpo explaining the truth behind Roboatech.

And Azrael...they are smart, just mostly not educated in the truth ;)

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I've been going to Chile my entire life, and lived there for 2 years. Azrael is correct in stating they have only been exposed to Roboatech while growing up. Thanks to the internet I am sure they've been able to see the original works if they choose to.

However, the most probable reason is they aren't as concerned with the Macross vs Roboatech and the average fan boi knows little behind the legalities and origins of Macross. I've had my share of A-HA moments with my buddies in Valpo explaining the truth behind Roboatech.

And Azrael...they are smart, just mostly not educated in the truth ;)

So, just ignorant to what else is out there. That wouldn't be a bad thing, except for when you get people that grew up with Robotech, then decide to add other mecha and characters, knowing it doesn't belong to Robotech. That's when you just gotta do a grand face palm, shake your head, and laugh at...hmmm, stupidity?

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Macross does not exist in this South American Dojo.

i'm about to dump a truckload of expletives and a demand for explanation for this, but then I realized i'm probably being trolled. the makers of this facepalm-able video probably knows mac frontier and watched an entire season for the wrong reasons.

heh.

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Well the reality is that with Macek dead, Yune and his neophites can do whatever they want to the "franchise". This will further alienate the "purists" and the schism will widen.

Yune's ego has no limit. He utterly failed to produce a decent original story for the followup production and continued that failure by not hiring a competent writer to pen another one. They like to hide behind the DOA LAM project, but if the film has no script after this many years it isn't going to get one in the near future. HG is under intense pressure to produce new material for the fans and it just isn't happening. The RT fans see MF and wonder why HG isn't doing something like it.

As for the re-master of the shows, I would wager the only changes will be editing changes to perhaps better mesh the stories, but even that is going to be tough. The achilles heal in the whole process is the "Southern Cross" chapter which bears absolutely NO resemblance to the bookend shows and offers no reasonable reason why the technology of that "era" was so drastically different from the era before and after. They would have been better off abandoning that show and either replacing it or simply ignoring it ever existed. In the grand picture it serves no real purpose.

HG is starting the hemorrage fans from the RT franchise and they know it. The fanboys can only last so long and with the economy still very sluggish, money isn't being spent on recycled RT merch.

Edited by Zinjo
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As for the re-master of the shows, I would wager the only changes will be editing changes to perhaps better mesh the stories, but even that is going to be tough.

If you think Tommy Yune would attempt to make the shows mesh better, you ain't paid attention to his efforts thus far. He has done the exact opposite.

The achilles heal in the whole process is the "Southern Cross" chapter which bears absolutely NO resemblance to the bookend shows and offers no reasonable reason why the technology of that "era" was so drastically different from the era before and after.

Sure it does. They got a massive boost from having millions of Zentraedi ships to salvage along with the attendant technology. They captured a Factory Satellite which possibly held a number of breakthroughs that lead to a general adoption of hover technology. Mass production would have reached its saturation point and civilian versions would have become available. Despite claims to the contrary, we see plenty of wheeled vehicles during The Masters War. The New Generation, set on an occupied Earth, would have had a general backslide to less maintenance-intensive vehicles. They obviously had to use the same energy-generation methods since Scott's crew find energy cells in a freakin grocery store inside a city that had been abandoned before the Invid even arrived. It is, after all, a post-Apocalyptic setting.

They would have been better off abandoning that show and either replacing it or simply ignoring it ever existed. In the grand picture it serves no real purpose.

Except the primary thrust for what Robotech is comes primarily from the middle chapter.

Edited by 1st Border Red Devil
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HG is starting the hemorrage fans from the RT franchise and they know it. The fanboys can only last so long and with the economy still very sluggish, money isn't being spent on recycled RT merch.

Harmony Gold is "starting to" hemorrhage fans from the Robotech franchise? Now that is a generous assessment.

Let's not kid ourselves here... Robotech's fanbase started hemorrhaging fans around the time "Dana's Story" first went to air way back in 1985. It wouldn't be a stretch to say that the two great constants in Robotech's failed attempts to revive itself have been a loss of fans and catastrophic failure. Each and every one of Robotech's failed attempt to "regrab" a spotlight it never had to begin with has ended up costing it fans.

When the Macross Saga ended and the Masters Saga started airing, the viewers threw up their hands and said "What the heck is this?"... and then the bottom fell out of the ratings when they stopped watching.

When that godawful Robotech movie had its test-showing, the viewers threw up their hands and said "This is wildly inappropriate stuff for kids, and it's tied into that Masters Saga mess!"... and then the movie was quietly shelved, leaving fans with nothing new, giving them incentive to look elsewhere.

When Harmony Gold tried to salvage the forcibly-aborted Robotech II: the Sentinels series by releasing the existing footage as a "movie", some fans threw up their hands and said "This is fecking awful!"... and gave up on the show.

When the comic books started coming out, plenty of the fans who looked into them said "This sh!t is awful!"... and then promptly stopped following them, leading to a high cancellation rate.

When the McKinney novels first dropped, plenty of the fans who looked into them said "Whatever this is, it isn't Robotech!"... and started flame wars on the internet, driving the fans of the novels out of the fandom in droves.

When Carl Macek's last, desperate gasp to revive the dead horse that is Robotech manifested itself as the squeaky wet fart we've come to know as Robotech 3000, the fans threw up their hands and said "What is this? You're betraying Robotech's roots!"... and gave up on the franchise.

When Tommy Yune replaced Carl Macek and rebooted the continuity by throwing out 90% of it, the fans threw up their hands and screamed "Sacrilege! How dare you defile my childhood!"... causing many to leave the fandom in irritation.

When the Shadow Chronicles movie dropped, the fans threw up their hands and said "What the hell, Tommy? Half of this movie looks like it was done by a high school animation class, and the other half by a softcore porn artist!"... and not only deserted the fandom, but were forcibly removed in droves for saying so.

Now Harmony Gold is stuck in a no-win scenario... with the Shadow Chronicles sequel stalled while they wait on the live action movie, they're trying to keep fans from deserting them by endlessly repeating "It's coming soon! It'll be huge!" while avoiding the unpleasant fact that it wouldn't look a damn thing like the familiar designs the fans are so hung up on for fear that they'll scream "Sacrilege!" again and desert the fandom.

If you think Tommy Yune would attempt to make the shows mesh better, you ain't paid attention to his efforts thus far. He has done the exact opposite.

Yeah, our boy Tommy hasn't exactly had a ton of luck or support in his ongoing quest to "lay down the law" about what's what to a fandom that spend more than a decade deciding that for itself. Nor has he won much favor with his ongoing attempt to make the Robotech setting more like the original three shows and making Mospeada more like Macross.

There's that old axiom "Don't fix what isn't broken." There should be another one, or perhaps a corollary to that to the effect of "You can't fix what's already broken beyond repair, so don't bother trying."

Except the primary thrust for what Robotech is comes primarily from the middle chapter.

Meh... I have to agree with Zinjo on this one. Honestly, I can't imagine a circumstance in which removing Southern Cross from the "Robotech equation" wouldn't immeasurably improve the series as a whole AND its future prospects. True, it's the central axis on which Robotech's borderline-incoherent story spins... but in what way is having the weakest and least popular saga be the most important to the story a good thing? Pinning the entire series on a perpetual poor performer like Southern Cross is a wildly lousy move if you intend to keep people watching all the way to the end. A middle arc made up of 24 agony-inducing episodes starring unlikeable characters and mechanical designs running the gambit from unremarkable to nonsensical is no way to hold onto an audience.

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To be perfectly fair... complaining about nonsensical mecha designs on a forum dedicated to a franchise about robot fighter jets in space MIGHT be just a tad hypocritical.

Eh... maybe, maybe not. Let me qualify that remark then in the interest of fairness.

Even when measured against the yardstick of "transforming jet fighter giant robots in space!", Southern Cross mechanical designs like the space helicopter and the tank that provides no protection for its driver induce bouts of "What were they thinking?" among the fans... to say nothing of the casual viewers.

Edited by Seto Kaiba
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Okay, I grant the convertible tank. Space helicopter, though... I don't think it's really all that silly, by the standards of the genre. What makes one lift surface sillier than another?

Space helicopter at least has the bonus of being AUDACIOUS(a bonus somewhat dulled by the previously highlighted non-helicopter space mode, which looks like a space jet).

The bioroids are sillier. We have a little dude, in a giant humanoid robot... which is itself riding a hoverboard like some giant robotic Silver Surfer.

Once you start stacking mechs, you need to decide if you're going to go total Voltron on this bitch.

If the answer to that question is NO, then you need to rethink your mechanical designs until you find a point that you don't have one vehicle riding another vehicle.

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So, just ignorant to what else is out there. That wouldn't be a bad thing, except for when you get people that grew up with Robotech, then decide to add other mecha and characters, knowing it doesn't belong to Robotech. That's when you just gotta do a grand face palm, shake your head, and laugh at...hmmm, stupidity?

Yeah, when you put it like that... :huh:

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Okay, I grant the convertible tank. Space helicopter, though... I don't think it's really all that silly, by the standards of the genre. What makes one lift surface sillier than another?

Space helicopter at least has the bonus of being AUDACIOUS(a bonus somewhat dulled by the previously highlighted non-helicopter space mode, which looks like a space jet).

The bioroids are sillier. We have a little dude, in a giant humanoid robot... which is itself riding a hoverboard like some giant robotic Silver Surfer.

Once you start stacking mechs, you need to decide if you're going to go total Voltron on this bitch.

If the answer to that question is NO, then you need to rethink your mechanical designs until you find a point that you don't have one vehicle riding another vehicle.

Well, it's not like HG had any choice in the matter, since those bioroid designs were in the OSM. HG has neither the talent or imagination to come up with anything like an original concept, so they have to use what they have access to.

Gads! Am I actually defending HG? I hope not!

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I liked the personal armors in Southern Cross...and the Spartas.... It's probably a misnomer to have called them "tanks" in The Robotech Masters. :unsure:

Well the reality is that with Macek dead, Yune and his neophites can do whatever they want to the "franchise". This will further alienate the "purists" and the schism will widen.

Yeah well, they're getting old and they shouldn't be the target audience for a 30-minute toy commercial anyways.

Yeah, our boy Tommy hasn't exactly had a ton of luck or support in his ongoing quest to "lay down the law" about what's what to a fandom that spend more than a decade deciding that for itself. Nor has he won much favor with his ongoing attempt to make the Robotech setting more like the original three shows and making Mospeada more like Macross.

There's that old axiom "Don't fix what isn't broken." There should be another one, or perhaps a corollary to that to the effect of "You can't fix what's already broken beyond repair, so don't bother trying."

It's what happens when you put a fanboy in charge....

edit: There's a acronym for that: FUBAR.

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The bioroids are sillier. We have a little dude, in a giant humanoid robot... which is itself riding a hoverboard like some giant robotic Silver Surfer.

Keep in mind that it's been used in Gundam, except they didn't look like jet-skiing hover boards, but are multipurpose transport units.

Base Jabber

Shackles

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Space helicopter at least has the bonus of being AUDACIOUS(a bonus somewhat dulled by the previously highlighted non-helicopter space mode, which looks like a space jet).

Isn't "audacious" a bit strong for it? If I had to pick one word to describe the Auroran, it definitely wouldn't be "audacious"... it would be "esoteric". C'mon... it's a transforming Sikorsky X-Wing with a working rotor. As aerodynamic oddities go, that's well up there.

It's what happens when you put a fanboy in charge....

edit: There's a acronym for that: FUBAR.

More or less... it's certainly no stretch to call Shadow Chronicles Tommy's Sentinels fan-fiction.

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....and the tank that provides no protection for its driver induce bouts of "What were they thinking?" among the fans... to say nothing of the casual viewers.

Okay, I grant the convertible tank.

Variants of the German StuG III and many other assault guns/tank destroyers had no roof crew protection.

example: British Archer tank destroyer

Archer_SP_17_pdr_Tank_Destroyer.jpg

Edited by renegadeleader1
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Variants of the German StuG III and many other assault guns/tank destroyers had no roof crew protection.

A bit off-topic, but I do not believe any StuG III versions lacked overhead and rear armor.

And I'm pretty sure about that.

If you mean other SPGs based on modified Pz.III-ish chassis, like the Hummel, then sure.

Also, didn't the Spartas not have any frontal protection for the driver? Seems a bigger problem. Although one not one that ever really bothered me.

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Keep in mind that it's been used in Gundam, except they didn't look like jet-skiing hover boards, but are multipurpose transport units.

Base Jabber

Shackles

Have I ever mentioned that the rocket sleds in Gundam where some of the dumbest things in the entire franchise?

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