Ginrai Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 The kidnapped human aspect is there, but is incredibly subdued. You basically have to read into certain things, such as the fact that the kidnapped civilians/soldiers from Metal Fire are shown wearing Bioroid Pilot uniforms in Star Dust or the Fleet Commanders' wishes to simply 'reprocess' the 15th ATAC into Bioroid Pilots in Crisis Point . 409890[/snapback] You mean you have to look for the elements that HG weren't successful in filing off? That's like saying, "In Robotech his name ISN'T really Rick Hunter even though that's what everyone says because it says H. Ichijo on his plane!" The issue is more that it RT was done in such a hurry they missed a few things they were trying to hide. I will say, as a fan of both (but for different reasons for both), there were things that should have been done for The Masters War that were better explained in SDC: Southern Cross. However, the humour in The Masters War is dead on better than in SDC: Southern Cross (mostly due to the comic interaction with the voice actors, especially Steve Kramer as Angelo Dante). SDC: Southern Cross also has more 'out of left field' moments than The Masters War, such as when Bowie expressed his love for Jeanne in BioPsycher. 409890[/snapback] It's been like six months since I last watched SDC Southern Cross and longer since I watched RT: Masters, but I remember the humor being the usual lame Robotech "gee golly" stuff. SDC SC's humor is more typical anime stuff, pantyshots and stuff. I don't remember Bowie saying he was in love with Jeanne... what episode is that and what was the context? SDC SC has a lot of stuff that is introduced but never properly developed thanks to the show's truncation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GutsAndCasca Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 Speaking of doing things in a hurry... anybody every notice how in Macross when the three Zentraedi Mincloned pilots are aboard the SDF, the signs say "MEN" and "LADEIS", when the guy in the dress gets booted out of the mens' restroom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermillion21 Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 Another cool thing I liked about Southern Cross was the team interaction/humour between the ATAC 15th squad: Bowie, Louie, Sean, Dante & Dana. Plus, Nova was hot!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st Border Red Devil Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 but I remember the humor being the usual lame Robotech "gee golly" stuff. No, Angelo Dante's deadpan 'Yes, ma'am. But dying under the command of a ditzy teenager isn't the way I hoped to go out' is one of the more memorable lines. Then there is Alan Fredrick's, also deadpan, observation of Dana 'Its obvious I'm dealing with a moron'. Maybe sarcasm isn't your cuppa. I don't remember Bowie saying he was in love with Jeanne... what episode is that and what was the context? Eps. #17 BioPsychers Bowie: This mission to occupy the Zor ship may be my last. I have a feeling something is going to happen to me. There is a big change waiting to happen.....It might be death.... Jeanne: Bowie! Bowie: I've loved you, Commander. .......Jeanne looks flabbergasted......... Bowie: Please pardon me, I'll never say it again. But I will protect you, Commander! ........Jeanne comes over and hugs Bowie......... Jeanne: Bowie...... That whole scene is completely out of left field. I don't recall anything that really lead to this particular moment in the Tv series. Thankfully, it was abandoned for The Masters War, and I believe the whole scene plays out better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JsARCLIGHT Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 I took that scene in the Zor ship to be Bowie simply saying something the thought he'd never get the chance to say... thinking he was going to die shortly. Hell, I have been known to say the same thing to people when I had preminitions of my own death. You don't want to go to your grave with things unsaid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenius Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 I took that scene in the Zor ship to be Bowie simply saying something the thought he'd never get the chance to say... thinking he was going to die shortly. Hell, I have been known to say the same thing to people when I had preminitions of my own death. You don't want to go to your grave with things unsaid. I usually save the love-spouting for when I am thoroughly drunk. "You, what's your name? I think I work with you... I love you. You get me my faxes, you're the best.... I mean it." Anyway, SDCSC lives and dies by the body-snatcher element and that's why The Masters just plain dies. I agree with 1st Border though, Dante has some great sarcastic lines. Like Ginrai said though, Seifreit becoming Zor Prime was just awkward and the hints in Robotech really just play out like sections where it was impossible for them to kill the body-snatcher element all together. I remember one episode where Emerson has dialogue that goes like this: E: "How many are missing?" some guy: "hundreds Sir, they're presumed lost in space." E: (to himself) "Let's hope they really are lost." Okay, i just butchered that dialogue royally but hopefully you get the gyst. In Robotech you're just like "What the hell does that mean?" In the original you know that those missing soldiers are about to become undead Bioroid pilots. That's cool. As to the whole MOSPEADA thing, it is definitely episodic and the character development seems to be like a switch. First Rey is like "Screw you soldier boy, I wanna run with the wind and do what I want" then, pretty rapidly, he's like "I've developed a sense of responsibility but while I fight beside you I'm going to make sure you learn to lighten up." Most the development is pretty rapid like that. The only one who is really interesting emotionally is Jim/Lunk. Remember the episode where he beats Stig to a pulp 'cause he's freakin' out? However, I think Genesis Climber actually SAYS a lot more than SDCSC does. It speaks more to the human condition and how people cope (capped between an opening and closing fighting scene). SDCSC just tried to be a soap opera with a tinge of scifi horror to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoryHolmes Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 (edited) No, Angelo Dante's deadpan 'Yes, ma'am. But dying under the command of a ditzy teenager isn't the way I hoped to go out' is one of the more memorable lines. Then there is Alan Fredrick's, also deadpan, observation of Dana 'Its obvious I'm dealing with a moron'. Maybe sarcasm isn't your cuppa. My personal favourite is Louie, in response to Angelo: "Well when you gotta go, you gotta go, so let's get going." Then again, there's also Dana dragging Bowie into her room to give opinions on which outfit she should wear... and then summarily dismissing his opinions and wearing what she wanted to. C'mon, how many men have had to go through that with their significant others? Edited June 22, 2006 by CoryHolmes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginrai Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 Speaking of doing things in a hurry... anybody every notice how in Macross when the three Zentraedi Mincloned pilots are aboard the SDF, the signs say "MEN" and "LADEIS", when the guy in the dress gets booted out of the mens' restroom? 409915[/snapback] That's more likely an issue of Japan not being able to spell English words than things being done in a hurry. Hooray Engrish! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginrai Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 No, Angelo Dante's deadpan 'Yes, ma'am. But dying under the command of a ditzy teenager isn't the way I hoped to go out' is one of the more memorable lines. Then there is Alan Fredrick's, also deadpan, observation of Dana 'Its obvious I'm dealing with a moron'. Maybe sarcasm isn't your cuppa. 409971[/snapback] I'm a pretty sarcastic person, but that doesn't make me laugh. Eps. #17 BioPsychersBowie: This mission to occupy the Zor ship may be my last. I have a feeling something is going to happen to me. There is a big change waiting to happen.....It might be death.... Jeanne: Bowie! Bowie: I've loved you, Commander. .......Jeanne looks flabbergasted......... Bowie: Please pardon me, I'll never say it again. But I will protect you, Commander! ........Jeanne comes over and hugs Bowie......... Jeanne: Bowie...... That whole scene is completely out of left field. I don't recall anything that really lead to this particular moment in the Tv series. Thankfully, it was abandoned for The Masters War, and I believe the whole scene plays out better. 409971[/snapback] Hmm, that does sound vaugely familiar. I'll have to watch it again and see what the Japanese is. I mean, daisuki and suki can both be roughly translated as "love" but daisuki is a lot stronger... But an unrequited crush is not impossible to imagine, but I sure don't recall any build up to that, you're right. Quite possibly one of the things that got gutted by the show's cancellation and desperate need to finish up before it went off the air. It kind of drives me crazy that at the end of the series there's still a ton of perfectly functional Zor ships in orbit and the war isn't really over... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st Border Red Devil Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 Hooray Engrish! Hehe, kind of like how the AB-01 TREAD's manual has the word 'Conpyright'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginrai Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 (edited) As to the whole MOSPEADA thing, it is definitely episodic and the character development seems to be like a switch. First Rey is like "Screw you soldier boy, I wanna run with the wind and do what I want" then, pretty rapidly, he's like "I've developed a sense of responsibility but while I fight beside you I'm going to make sure you learn to lighten up." Most the development is pretty rapid like that. 410017[/snapback] There's zero build up and it suddenly pops out. "OH YEAH! DAMN! We forgot to develop this character! Uh, suddenly Houquet has a tenderness beneath her gruff (totally cliche) exterior!" And I hate that. Don't get me wrong, I still like Mospeada quite a lot. It's fun. It's just not very well -written-. And I guess the animation isn't the hottest either. After all, Anime Friend animated the -entire- series. The only one who is really interesting emotionally is Jim/Lunk. Remember the episode where he beats Stig to a pulp 'cause he's freakin' out? However, I think Genesis Climber actually SAYS a lot more than SDCSC does. It speaks more to the human condition and how people cope (capped between an opening and closing fighting scene). SDCSC just tried to be a soap opera with a tinge of scifi horror to it. 410017[/snapback] I remember that scene and like Bowie declaring his love, it seems totally out of left field. But I do agree that he's a pretty sympathetic character. Stik/Stig/whatever in Mospeada especially is a zealous bigot and it's really hard to like him. Robotech softened that a lot and just turned him anal retentive ala Cyclops from X-Men. But I mean, in Mospeada they were obviously making a statement about racism there. It's interesting that he doesn't really get over his anti-Inbit thing at the end of the series and doesn't really go back to Aisha until Love Live Alive. LLA kind of contradicts the end of Mospeada, really. ("Oh well, my job's done, see you later, earth! I'm off to Mars!" And suddenly in LLA he's on earth again, with Aisha, who he totally ditched. What? I think the entire point of SDC SC was to experiment with really unusual mecha and work really hard on complex characters, and yes, hybridize soap opera plotting with a mecha show. Macross certainly did a soap opera/mecha hybrid before, and so did Orguss, but the characters are a little more conflicted and complicated than in either of those shows and their development is a lot more gradual. For a lot of Macross Hikaru is treading water. He develops a lot when he joins the UN Spacy, and then he develops a lot when he says goodbye to Minmay in Love Drifts Away and picks Misa (and then this is immediately rolled back in the next episode) and again he treads water until the last episode, where he does it again. SC characters seem to develop slower, but more consistently. And as for the perceived value in the overall message, Mospeada just has more of a schmaltzy "people are people" message, even if they're aliens thing... just like Macross, actually. Mospeada is really pretty derivative. I think what makes Mospeada stand out is mostly the fabulous design work. Shinji Aramaki and Hideki Kakinuma are really talented artists. Edited June 22, 2006 by Ginrai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenius Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Mospeada just has more of a schmaltzy "people are people" I thought the message in MOSPEADA about people had more to do with the people that the group encountered. Some towns sold soldiers out to maintain peace, some fell into gang warfare, some went tribal, some just became utterly corrupt. I thought it was a "In the face of adversity, keep your bearings on what's right and wrong." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermillion21 Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 It's ironic that a thread about Robotech has ended with us fanboys discussing the original series' that comprised it. What is Robotech the Shadow Chronicles again?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF5SS Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Well, the original series don't suck like Robotech. If we stopped talking about Robotech may it'll just go away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermillion21 Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 (edited) Robotech, Voltron, Force Five, and Star Blazers were the shows that introduced me to the wonderful world of Japanese anime. I love these "classics" IMHO. Edited June 23, 2006 by Vermillion21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1/1 LowViz Lurker Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 (edited) ("Oh well, my job's done, see you later, earth! I'm off to Mars!" And suddenly in LLA he's on earth again, with Aisha, who he totally ditched. What? Maybe he wasn't ready to let go of the memory he had of his fiance who died at the beginning so he feels like "if I can like this other girl it would be disrespectful to the woman I was about to marry?" But the alien girl looks up and says she hopes to live on earth with him... and at the last moment (a freeze frame) of the last bit at the end of the last ep of the tv series, notice how we see him throw away the little necklace: hinting that although he leaves the alien girl back on earth maybe this is an indication he is ready to finally let go of that loss and move on, instead of living on the bitterness of the past and painful memories? Him leaving showed that: Sure the inbit were not evil, but people can still be angry and pissed at the aliens for thier own personal losses in the war. And him distancing himself is like saying: I have not gotten over it that quickly. I think the least he could have done would be to land and say goodbye, but he just takes off. I thought stick was an ahole (unaware of the people on earth's fear and the unique position they are in, in order to survive right in the thick of things) but I can sympathise with his need to go back home after the long trip from ep1 in the middle of no where to the enemy base. (he was not even born on earth afterall and to him it is an foreign place. The beginning where he crashed his plane and is scared of the rain and lightning highlights this.) He might associate the planet with all the negative memories of the enemy and going home is like relaxing. Though thier real goodbye was supposed to be right at the time when stig was going his seperate way to fight alongside the other soldiers. (at this point it seemed as if he didn't need to hang around these civilians any more) Edited June 23, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GutsAndCasca Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Voltron and Robotech! (Speed Racer too?) Loved these as a kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermillion21 Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 Voltron and Robotech! (Speed Racer too?)Loved these as a kid. 410557[/snapback] me too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valk1j Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 (edited) For those that care, Robotech: The Shadow Chronicles, has a showing date at the New York Korean Film Festival. Link Edited July 10, 2006 by valk1j Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermillion21 Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 I think very few of us care anymore .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumdumgai Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 It's still not out yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macross73 Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 i forgot all about this thing. I really dont care anymore. Well, when this ever comes out i'll check it out. maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Effect Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 (edited) Film Festivals really don't mean a damn thing. The only thing that matters I feel is the dvd release date or it airing on cable say on a channels animation block. Outside of that it really isn't worth caring about I feel. For the different places they've shown it I've heard nothing about it. Which either means two things to me. 1. The only people that saw it don't post on the internet. 2. It really wasn't worth talking about or running back to tell others what it was like. Number 2 is the more likely situation I think and might be why it's not out on dvd. I wouldn't be surprised if they had a hard time shopping it around or perhaps they are asking for to much when it comes to a deal. Still as it stands and it's been this way for th last year or so, if it comes out I'll check it out as a rental or a download. Only after I've seen first (all of it) will I decide if it's worth any of my money or not. No way in hell before. Edited July 11, 2006 by Effect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Come on, this is Robotech II: The Sentinels Part II, It's worth $10 for that reason alone, especially if it has those cat robots made of peanut brittle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Project Phoenix Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Let me know when Blockbuster or Hollywood video has it on rental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt.actionjackson Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 I have ceased to care for this project. I doubt I'd spend any money on it (rental or otherwise), but if it ever comes out I'll probably DL it. If it can't find a distributor after all this time, it must be god awful. I mean, those stupid Dean Cain fights radioactive yetti sci-fi movies get released to DVD just about every week, don't they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shade Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 You know, by the time they release this thing, the animation is going to look awfully dated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugimon Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 You know, by the time they release this thing, the animation is going to look awfully dated. 415223[/snapback] They're releasing it today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JsARCLIGHT Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Something's wrong. Somewhere, something involved in this project is wrong. I mean, if they are shopping it around the "film festival" circuit that would lead me to believe they have a finished product. If they have a finished product, why have they not issued a release date yet? What is the holdup? I'll say what I've said a million times before... they broke the bank on this monstrosity. It cost them way too much to make and now they are in a tight spot trying to recoup their costs. Chances are they are asking way too high a distro percentage or fee. Either that or they banked on some deal that fell through and left them in trouble. It almost seems like a student project at this point... or like some independent PC game mod that never gets finished. ANN reports that Shadow Chronicles was only a private screening at Cannes for distributors, and now they seem to be going public in small venue, small turnout screenings in the states. Something is fishy, very fishy. AnimEnron, anyone? Then again I've been saying that for a year now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt.actionjackson Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Just out of curiousity, has HG said what they spent on this project? Or does anyone within the industry have a guesstimate? I can't imagine that they were given a Dreamworks or Pixar sized budget to get this done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azrael Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Just out of curiousity, has HG said what they spent on this project? Or does anyone within the industry have a guesstimate?I can't imagine that they were given a Dreamworks or Pixar sized budget to get this done. 415242[/snapback] I haven't heard any reports about how much they spent, unless someone has asked and is not telling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JsARCLIGHT Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Just out of curiousity, has HG said what they spent on this project? Or does anyone within the industry have a guesstimate?I can't imagine that they were given a Dreamworks or Pixar sized budget to get this done. 415242[/snapback] I can give you a guesstimate of what I *think* this thing should have cost them... but that is not always the case. I have seen projects that should have been simple, under budget on time affairs turn into red ink nightmares overnight... and judging by how long this pot has been cooking something is amiss. It should not take them this long to get things done. If they are doing this on purpose then their logic is beyond me. HG will most likely never release production numbers on this thing, it's usually just not done on small scale things like this. I have simply been speculating that budget, more precisely their possible overrun, may be the sticking point as to why this cow is taking so long to put to pasture. From my experience only three things will keep a video from market: budget problems, legal issues or the product is just terrible, test screens terrible, gets horrid reactions and the studio decides to bury it.. Seeing as HG owns outright all the material they are using I highly doubt this is a legal issue keeping it held back. HG also has a lot invested in this at this point (or so I have heard) and I doubt they'd pull it even if it sucked... which only leads me to believe it's a money issue. Somewhere on some end the dollar signs are in the red. And if this bloated endeavor is actually in the red by large margins then we'll most likely never see the real budget figures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legioss Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 They're still on Namek? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangaioh Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 They're still on Namek? 415309[/snapback] So you are informing us that the animators decide to draw a 5 second powerup, in a 5 minute battle scene, that started 5 days ago (in the storyline/animation), will take 5 weeks to draw, and another 5 years to print (if at all)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermillion21 Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 So was there any news on the Shadow Chronicles at AX? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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