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29 minutes ago, Kanedas Bike said:

So a play on words? Sure.

Thank goodness you're so high-minded, I'll have plenty of posts to ignore, or call out in the future as well.

Thank goodness you are so easily flustered....we need more of your lengthy self-righteous diatribes in the future! :lol:

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48 minutes ago, electric indigo said:

I took that as a vague hint that I'm getting too old for the show.

I don't think so - my sons hate the sequels and did not even bother to watch the last one.  I found them forgettable but for the most part (except the second one) a fun enough time to watch once.  

There is nothing that can save them but like the Holiday Special (from the seventies) there may be bits in those movies that can be told in better stories.

As for the First Order, yup, Instead of Tarkin we got Hux, instead of Vader we got (what was Ben's bad boy name again?  - Like I said "forgettable"), and instead of the Emporer we got Snoke (till even the directors figured out was a pale imitation and brought the emperor back). 

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18 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

Thank goodness you are so easily flustered....we need more of your lengthy self-righteous diatribes in the future! :lol:

Be careful what you wish for! :lol:

In any event, I'm guessing we've both said our piece on the subject. So moving on.

-b.

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Cut the chatter kids.

Do I have any hopes for this movie? No. Is it because of Patty Jenkins? No. And while I haven't watched WW84 yet, directors have good and bad movies. I just feel the premise for this movie has been done to death. Old guy (Wedge) culls the herd of pilots to have his cream-of-the-crop group of hotshots. Top Gun, the comedy version Hot Shots!, that Apache helicopter movie, S.W.A.T., countless other movies that also follow this premise. I don't care what era it's set in, I don't find the premise enticing enough. It's that premise of movie, but in the Star Wars-universe.

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6 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

(Admittedly, that Snoke telecommutes to run the First Order while in his pajamas and bathrobe feels a lot less silly now than it did a year ago.)

No it doesn't. The whole character had to later be explained in comics as a back story and was , obviously, a big fat mistake.

Edited by Bolt
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2 hours ago, Dynaman said:

As for the First Order, yup, Instead of Tarkin we got Hux, instead of Vader we got (what was Ben's bad boy name again?  - Like I said "forgettable"), and instead of the Emporer we got Snoke (till even the directors figured out was a pale imitation and brought the emperor back). 

Completely agree. This was so frakin obvious, and they still packaged it and sold it.

I'm in a wait and see mode for this movie. Just not holding my breath for anything mouse ears does.

Edited by Bolt
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1 hour ago, azrael said:

Cut the chatter kids.

Do I have any hopes for this movie? No. Is it because of Patty Jenkins? No. And while I haven't watched WW84 yet, directors have good and bad movies. I just feel the premise for this movie has been done to death. Old guy (Wedge) culls the herd of pilots to have his cream-of-the-crop group of hotshots. Top Gun, the comedy version Hot Shots!, that Apache helicopter movie, S.W.A.T., countless other movies that also follow this premise. I don't care what era it's set in, I don't find the premise enticing enough. It's that premise of movie, but in the Star Wars-universe.

That's too bad...because apparently you will be missing out on the greatest fighter pilot movie ever made!

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1 hour ago, Bolt said:

Sarcasm in the void!:lol:

Well. To be fair. She is trying to honor her father. It might be a rehashed plot, but maybe it will add some value to the underwhelming new trilogy..

Yeah, it would be a shame if she just used the memory of her deceased father simply to hype-up another Disney Star Wars dumpster fire....;) 

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You know, if Jenkins bring in Gal Gadot and a few hot female leads for the movie, I'd be up for it.  Top Gun, girl style.

Cause, the one thing we don't need is another Biggs, or Wex (or whatever the heck JJ's buttboy's character was named).  And as long as they keep it realistic, meaning X-wing pilots aren't also marines that storm star destroyers, that would be good.  The Finns have their role, the Poes have theirs. 

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1 hour ago, kalvasflam said:

You know, if Jenkins bring in Gal Gadot and a few hot female leads for the movie, I'd be up for it.  Top Gun, girl style.

The Force is Hot Females? :good:

Dunno....Gal is about as hot a female can be.....but it still did not save WW84 from being a complete mess...;)

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12 hours ago, Dynaman said:

As for the First Order, yup, Instead of Tarkin we got Hux, instead of Vader we got (what was Ben's bad boy name again?  - Like I said "forgettable"), and instead of the Emporer we got Snoke (till even the directors figured out was a pale imitation and brought the emperor back). 

It's not so much that they were a forgettable bunch... it's that, compared to the Galactic Empire in the original Star Wars trilogy, they were downright toothless.

General Hux was the highest-ranking First Order line officer in the first two sequel trilogy movies.  He was, at best, an ineffectual commander who was all pomp and bluster with nothing to back it up and his incompetence was routinely played for comic relief.

Captain Phasma, the commander of the First Order's stormtrooper legions, was the very incarnation of disappointment.  They try to build her up as this top tier badass who commands the unflinching obedience of the First Order's ground forces, but the only thing she does is get her ass handed to her.  Finn holds her at gunpoint, forces her to deactivate Starkiller Base's shields, and then he and Han Solo throw her down a garbage chute.  The next time we see her, she's presiding over Finn and Rose's execution at Snoke's flagship and is killed when Finn smacks her in the face and lets her fall to her death.

Ben Solo (alias Kylo Ren) was an angsty Darth Vader cosplayer who so busy trying to look and sound intimidating to actually be intimidating.  He can't pull off being the First Order's intimidating masked man because he keeps taking the damned thing off, and Adam Driver just is not intimidating-looking on his own.  It doesn't help that the only fight he actually wins unassisted is the one against Finn in the first movie.  It's hard to take him seriously as The Dreaded when he gets his ass handed to him by Rey (who, at that time, had never held a lightsaber before), by Luke (who wasn't even physically present), by Snoke's guards, and then by his own Knights of Ren.  You can't help but suspect if any competent Jedi had faced him he'd have been over their knee getting his ass paddled for being a naughty boy inside of five minutes.

Supreme Leader Snoke looks creepy and deformed, but apart from repeatedly bullying Hux and Kylo Ren (a low bar) all he manages to do is throw Rey around the room a little before he misreads the future and is summarily cut in half by his own protege, in a death he literally saw coming but did nothing to avoid.

It's no exaggeration to say that the most effective and intimidating was the one stormtrooper who shouted "TRAITOR", threw away his weapons, and dueled Finn... and even he got killed without an ounce of dignity.  

 

Now that we've all seen, in three movies, how utterly incompetent the First Order was... it's gonna be nearly impossible to take Rogue Squadron seriously if they present the First Order as a genuine threat.  It's more or less canon that the only reason the First Order gained any ground is because the New Republic and Resistance were breathtakingly incompetent.

 

10 hours ago, Bolt said:

No it doesn't. The whole character had to later be explained in comics as a back story and was , obviously, a big fat mistake.

That was more a joke about Snoke's questionable wardrobe choices than the character himself...

After all, haven't a fair number of us also been working from home in our PJ's for the better part of a year?

Edited by Seto Kaiba
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2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

That was more a joke about Snoke's questionable wardrobe choices than the character himself...

After all, haven't a fair number of us also been working from home in our PJ's for the better part of a year?

:lol::good:

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7 hours ago, jvmacross said:

The Force is Hot Females? :good:

Dunno....Gal is about as hot a female can be.....but it still did not save WW84 from being a complete mess...;)

Yes, people still watched it right?  Did anyone here remember the movie Entrapment with CZJ?  I'm pretty sure most people went to that movie just to see her.  The story was a joke even with Connery headlining.  Besides, seriously, unlike guys, girls aren't nearly as interested in movies overflowing with testosterone.  Hollywood's intended audience was men, that's who brings in the bucks, never mind that women probably are a larger potential audience.  Who here actually went to Sense and Sensibility, or Bridges of Madison County... seriously.

Yes, the First Order will be a Big Mac with Frys, and the Final order will be a fish sandwich.  Yep... First Order, and Final Order, that's about how effective they were. 

Edited by kalvasflam
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2 minutes ago, kalvasflam said:

Yes, people still watched it right?  

Well, unless you haven't been keeping up with current events....the pickings were pretty slim this Christmas season at the movies....;)

And sure, I watched it....at least I did not lose any money doing so.... :rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, kalvasflam said:

Yes, people still watched it right?  Did anyone here remember the movie Entrapment with CZJ?  I'm pretty sure most people went to that movie just to see her.  The story was a joke even with Connery headlining.  Besides, seriously, unlike guys, girls aren't nearly as interested in movies overflowing with testosterone.  Hollywood's intended audience was men, that's who brings in the bucks, never mind that women probably are a larger potential audience.  Who here actually went to Sense and Sensibility, or Bridges of Madison County... seriously.

Yes, the First Order will be a Big Mac with Frys, and the Final order will be a fish sandwich.  Yep... First Order, and Final Order, that's about how effective they were. 

I didn't watch WW1984 because I'm a knuckle dragging hornball like Animal from the Muppets, I watched it because I actually enjoyed the first one and expected the same level of quality in the sequel. Boy was I wrong.

 

That being said I'm still willing to give Patty Jenkins a chance, as even Spielberg has made some stinkers in the past. It's all a question of where she goes from here.

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1 hour ago, kalvasflam said:

Yes, people still watched it right?  Did anyone here remember the movie Entrapment with CZJ?  I'm pretty sure most people went to that movie just to see her.  The story was a joke even with Connery headlining.  Besides, seriously, unlike guys, girls aren't nearly as interested in movies overflowing with testosterone.  Hollywood's intended audience was men, that's who brings in the bucks, never mind that women probably are a larger potential audience.  Who here actually went to Sense and Sensibility, or Bridges of Madison County... seriously.

Well, yeah... but that often isn't enough to make a movie succeed on its own.  (e.g. Ghost in the Shell with ScarJo still lost a millions.)

General audiences, women included, also aren't necessarily interested in seeing a movie simply because "girl power" either... which sank the remake of Charlie's Angels and several other films from the last year or so.

 

1 hour ago, kalvasflam said:

Yes, the First Order will be a Big Mac with Frys, and the Final order will be a fish sandwich.  Yep... First Order, and Final Order, that's about how effective they were. 

An interesting coincidence... I ordered pizza for dinner and was Order 66.

 

1 hour ago, jvmacross said:

Well, unless you haven't been keeping up with current events....the pickings were pretty slim this Christmas season at the movies....;)

And sure, I watched it....at least I did not lose any money doing so.... :rolleyes:

It'll be interesting to see if the new stream-centric outlook on new movie releases has a significant impact on Rogue Squadron's prospects.

It's going to be harder to tell quickly what movies are successes and what aren't when they start becoming direct-to-streaming exclusives or parallel releases.

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Honestly, I think the biggest stigma this movie is going to have to overcome is the fact that you had a grand total of one competent pilot character in the entirety of the sequel trilogy... and I was sick of him, because he was so incredibly overpowered he made every other pilot character (of which I remember zero) look blitheringly incompetent by comparison.  It was like they wrote him based on the player character of an Ace Combat game.

I can't honestly see them turning that into a plot I will give two shakes about.  There's no story to tell, they don't need any other pilots, because the almighty Poe is going to kill everything with his eyes shut.

Far as the director goes.. I try not to blame directors for movies they don't write, at least not entirely.  I'd believe Jenkins can do a decent job, given a decent story and decent talent to work with.  I'm more concerned about the quality of the story we're going to get, because I have absolutely no idea what bodily orifice they're going to generate an antagonist from at this point.

Edited by Chronocidal
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I will say this. General Hux, when he wasn't being used as a joke, could have won. Starkiller Base was his baby and if not for Kylo Ren leading the Resistance right to it, the FO might have had some props. Also with TLJ, as he was the one who managed to keep the Resistance on 'the string' for two hours and was actually the more reasonable of the two on Uber-Hoth.

But that was a major problem of the sequel trilogy, when do they go for good story telling over the needs of comedy relief?

And poor Phasma. She could have been so badass instead of mediocre.

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The thing that puzzles me about this is why they used the physical prop of a T-65B X-Wing if they were setting it after/during the sequel trilogy? Are there no more T-70’s? Aren’t they on the T-85 or something by the time of the sequel trilogy? It is the same thing with the Mandalorian, why are they using the old X-Wings? Is it lack of props to keep prices down? Don’t they have props left from Episode 9? I’m kinda confused about the mixed messages being sent.

Twich

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8 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

It'll be interesting to see if the new stream-centric outlook on new movie releases has a significant impact on Rogue Squadron's prospects.

It's going to be harder to tell quickly what movies are successes and what aren't when they start becoming direct-to-streaming exclusives or parallel releases.

I think I just read an article recently where it said WB was already backtracking there "everything gets released in both theatres and streaming at the same time" schtick.....

Now they are saying the "more expensive" movies will get released at theatres first before going to their streaming platform....and their "riskier" movies will get booted to HBO Max.....translation: the crap will go to steaming right away!  The only problem is, as far as DC flicks goes, most are crap regardless of the price tag! 8)

https://collider.com/dc-movies-theaters-plan-2022-hbo-max-walter-hamada/

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I for one would be curious to see this model of streaming contents and how it works out.  There isn’t a set pattern yet for what works.  
 

Mulan was a wasted opportunity because Disney decided to charge so much, I think $8 to $10 would have been in the right spot.  I think WW84 was also a wasted opportunity, because they offered it in hopes of jacking up subs.

The internet is training people to cut cords, who wants to cut the cable subscription only to be forced to subscribe to five different other services in turn.  Either theaters will make a come back, or the movie business is headed into a nosedive.  Because the amount of cash being laid out to make a movie is utterly out of proportion now to what they might be able to make back.  
 

WW84 is going to be a big loser as a stand alone movie at this rate.   Then Black Widow is next on deck unless Disney holds out for movie chains...  one could almost envision Disney buying chains themselves to try to bring back audience if the extended streaming model doesn’t work.  Because the one thing streaming takes away is the sense of urgency.  

I don’t have to watch the show of the week now, I can pull a one time sub to Disney and watch it all at once and cancel it thereafter, whether it’s one or two months, it doesn’t matter.  As soon as the content is sucked dry, I go elsewhere and wait for the content bowl to fill back up for a particular service. 

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2 hours ago, twich said:

The thing that puzzles me about this is why they used the physical prop of a T-65B X-Wing if they were setting it after/during the sequel trilogy? Are there no more T-70’s? Aren’t they on the T-85 or something by the time of the sequel trilogy? It is the same thing with the Mandalorian, why are they using the old X-Wings? Is it lack of props to keep prices down? Don’t they have props left from Episode 9? I’m kinda confused about the mixed messages being sent.

Twich

In The Mandalorian I’m fine with still seeing T-65’s as it’s only 5 years after RotJ. Plus even if T-70’s are being introduced at this point the show takes place out in the Rim so new fighters would likely not be out there yet. They even allude to the fact that the New Republic isn’t really paying attention out there so it would make sense that their new tech wouldn’t be out there yet.

Everything else...well. I got nothing. Likely them not paying attention or even knowing or caring. They may also be trying to avoid using anything that directly links to the sequels. They may not come out and decannonize the sequels but they MAY try to just avoid/ignore them to leave their status ambiguous.

Chris

 

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5 hours ago, twich said:

The thing that puzzles me about this is why they used the physical prop of a T-65B X-Wing if they were setting it after/during the sequel trilogy? Are there no more T-70’s? Aren’t they on the T-85 or something by the time of the sequel trilogy? It is the same thing with the Mandalorian, why are they using the old X-Wings? Is it lack of props to keep prices down? Don’t they have props left from Episode 9? I’m kinda confused about the mixed messages being sent.

Twich

I can't speak on Rogue Squadron ( it's not even coming out until 2023). 
But as far as The Mandalorian, I'm sure it was intentional or at least acceptable to be showing a slightly older X-wing model. Aside from the points @Dobber mentioned. Dave Filoni is supposedly a walking SW encyclopedia and presumably is channeling Georgie boy. At least, that's how he's being hyped up. So the ultimate SW nerd probably had similar reasons for the older models patrolling the outer rim. The new republic is probably stretched pretty thin and quite focused on the inner core. Just look how much of an Empire presence there is on the outer rim. 

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6 hours ago, twich said:

The thing that puzzles me about this is why they used the physical prop of a T-65B X-Wing if they were setting it after/during the sequel trilogy? Are there no more T-70’s? Aren’t they on the T-85 or something by the time of the sequel trilogy? It is the same thing with the Mandalorian, why are they using the old X-Wings? Is it lack of props to keep prices down? Don’t they have props left from Episode 9? I’m kinda confused about the mixed messages being sent.

Twich

My cynical take?  They're pulling nostalgia strings, because they've got nothing worthwhile to build on from the sequel trilogy.  They may have no idea how to write anything worth a damn, but they would have to be completely numb from the neck up if they didn't recognize the success of the new Squadrons game, and know that the only era the fans are going to care about is the OT.  Doesn't matter what the movie is actually about, they're going to get people's hopes up as high as possible before revealing the bait and switch.

9 hours ago, Thom said:

I will say this. General Hux, when he wasn't being used as a joke, could have won. Starkiller Base was his baby and if not for Kylo Ren leading the Resistance right to it, the FO might have had some props. Also with TLJ, as he was the one who managed to keep the Resistance on 'the string' for two hours and was actually the more reasonable of the two on Uber-Hoth.

But that was a major problem of the sequel trilogy, when do they go for good story telling over the needs of comedy relief?

And poor Phasma. She could have been so badass instead of mediocre.

If Hux (or anyone else in the First Order, for that matter) had the mental capacity to outwit a toddler, TLJ would have ended five minutes after the opening crawl.  That "fleet killer" ship they had sure did a bang-up job of taking out the empty base while the Resistance fleet escaped. :rolleyes: 

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1 hour ago, Chronocidal said:

 Doesn't matter what the movie is actually about, they're going to get people's hopes up as high as possible before revealing the bait and switch.

Hence one of the reasons why I have no real hopes for this flick.

As for the whole streaming vs. theater issue, until the situation calms down enough for theaters to pack it in like the can of sardines it was (which means late 2021/likely 2022), good luck with theater releases. Cuz we'll be streaming more for most of 2021 at this rate. Back to our regularly scheduled whining thread.

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2 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

 

If Hux (or anyone else in the First Order, for that matter) had the mental capacity to outwit a toddler, TLJ would have ended five minutes after the opening crawl.  That "fleet killer" ship they had sure did a bang-up job of taking out the empty base while the Resistance fleet escaped. :rolleyes: 

I was going to say don't use logic it would only ruin things but then I remembered it was ruined from the get go.  That whole chase bit was brainless beyond belief.

Now that bit out of the way, Disney has done very well with The Mandalorian and by bring Filoni's works in.  So I have hope.  

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