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Macross Δ (Delta) - Mission 26 -Finale - READ 1st POST


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Mission 26: Eternal Walküre  

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  1. 1. Rating

    • Positive ( WALKURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (ツ)_VV )
      62
    • Neutral
      45
    • Negative ("Eternal blunder" is more like it...)
      96


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The ending was... all right, I suppose. Certainly no better than that.

I was struck with the many similarities in the final battle to that of Frontier (which, of course, borrowed heavily from the final battles in Macross and / or DYRL)... but I was also struck by how, despite the similarities, Delta never made me care like Frontier did. I love that last episode of Frontier. Despite the flaws of the series, the last episode legit gave me goosebumps and made me care about the outcome. I even loved the resolution to the triangle- no resolution! I thought it fit Alto well, not to make a "choice" at the end; he chose the sky Sheryl and Ranka opened for him.

Here, Hayate suddenly realizes he loves Freya, after all. That's nice, I guess. I didn't feel particularly invested in their rather one sided relationship, and just ended up feeling bad for Mirage. Frankly, the only time I felt much of anything in the last episode was seeing the brief glimpse of Jenius Air.

Anyway, the parallels between the final episode of Frontier and Delta:

Roid's plan (or, at least, his goal) is almost precisely identical to Grace's. Surprisingly so

A songstress, and to an extent, DYRL are corrupted

A medley helps save the day

antagonist face turn (the White Knight and Brera Stern almost literally say the same things) helps turn the tide

Macross attack of sorts

The good guys stand on their "new" land, a job well done

and yet, nothing had the power Frontier did. The feeling when Klan gave Alto Michel's rifle. When Canaria shoots the Galaxy in the "face." When SMS shows up... hell, when Bobby pilots the Macross Quarter like a Valkyrie and takes out Galaxy's Macross cannon. When Leon's ambitions are smashed. When Sheryl and Ranka unite to sing and protect the man they love. These things had emotion, had resonance. Delta, too often, just felt like it was checking things off on a big Macross list. Valkyries? Check. Music and songstresses? Check. Tenuous connections to past series? Check. Big threat only the power of love and song can solve? Check.

Windemere could have been a very interesting antagonist for NUNS... instead, they blew their wad, so to speak. Here are these people with their own Valkyries and ace pilots, a race that seems to have a legitimate claim to being the true children of the protoculture... and what did they accomplish? We couldn't really feel for them as villains, or as characters, as often their goals seemed too silly or too pointless. Brain wash, ???, profit. You could say the same for the good guys... we had too many characters to worry about, and none of them got the screen time to become interesting. Probably the only semi-fleshed out or interesting character in Walkyre was Kaname... but they never did anything with her. Freya was just so impossibly high spirited that it was almost impossible to sympathize or even like her character. Mirage could have been interesting, but largely was there just to be the girl who came in second place. Hayate could have been interesting, but we never saw much of his character beyond "I love to fly." Hell, we didn't even get an Immelman dance in the end! Mikumo was such a cipher... I don't really know why we were meant to feel for her or her plight. Humanoid music machine sings for her friends. Humanoid music machine sings for her enemies. Yes, and?

The music for the show, sadly, wasn't that great for the most part. I realize we've been really spoiled with excellent music thruout Macross' three decades, but I got into very little of the music this time around.

The character designs were very busy, and often distracting. I don't know if there's a lof of fault I can lace there; that seems to be a trend in anime and pop culture in general, and I'm cranky and old. The mecha this time around seemed decent enough... we just never got to spend a lot of time with any of them.

One plus I'll give Delta is some of the world building going on. I did find some of the new races and locales interesting.

This has been, for me, easily the most disappointing Macross to date. I wasn't a big fan of 7, either... but I feel like there were a lot of external pressures/faults on that show... and I can kind of overlook my problems, to know that, somewhere within that huge mess, there was a pretty good 20-something episode series dying to get out. Maybe I'll look back at Delta someday and think the same... but it just felt like a way to cash in on idols and idol based anime. I truly don't think anyone would give this show a second look if it weren't branded with Macross.

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My general reaction: positive, all is forgiven, Shoji Kawamori-san. I bow to your writer/fan mightiness.

But this is personal, about the very idea, and has little to do with some very obvious flaws in execution.

You see, ever since about 1989-90, when I was in my early teenage years, I was furious about Asimov, my favourite sci fi writer back then (I still admire him a lot), doing the "artificial old all-wise robot lewads humanity into unity in a neural network and that's great" thing in Foundation and Earth. Zeroth Law, all that. It sounded like a betrayal of his own earlier ideals, which were not quite Heinlein but still pretty individualistic.

And Kawamori has, I think, read the books. And looks like he felt what I felt. His first attack at the idea, as I now realize, was in Frontier; but in Frontier, only an "elite" wanted to be a neural network and rule the rest, so this was not a direct hit. He still did the excellent "Sheryl and Ranka demonstrate to the Vajra what individual differences mean" turn, though.

But now, he intentionally fires a friggin' Macross Cannon at Gaia and all that jazz. Just what I wanted for 25 years, man, 25 years!

So I'm thankful for that.

Yet, the second cour could have been done way better. Yes, Mirage should have had some character development; also applies to Makina and Reina, and what Mikumo got was too little, too late. (I do like the way she is animated in ep26 though - for the first time we now see her as a child, her face far closer to her real physical age despite the body firm - her mysterious and serious persona now gone).

Too bad we did not learn who Lady M is but this appears to be an intentional sequel hook. I'd love a Generations movie, and they have to do it pretty soon if they do it at all, before voices start retiring en masse. They probably can do without Tomo Sakurai, but if Yoshiki Fukuyama retires, the idea gone. And he is 53, quite advanced for a rock star. (Well they can use old recordings, but... it won't be the same I think).

so the one with followed destroid missile launch are called daedalus attack and the one without it called aether attack? why not firing aether cannon if there's no destroid in aether? affraid it might destroy aether?

More like afraid it might kill Mikumo, I think. They are not exactly ready to sacrifice her.

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As far as the character is concerned, poor Mirage. But the ending is a twist, Freyja winning is a different thing from the other series. That marks this as a stand out. Very interesting. It gives us a resolution, albeit, not a great one since we know what'll happen to Freyja in 15 years.... But hey, everyone dies eventually right.

The scales appear to mean she does not have 15 years. Because she uses her rune so intensely, she might be gone in months, at best in a few years. When Hayate realizes this, will he ask her to stop singing? Novel/manga hook?

One last thought, it was ironic that Mikumo was no longer in bondage, but her singing put everyone else in so called bondage. I wonder what is with this bondage fetish with the writers.

One word. Otaku.

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So can we all the agreed that D in Delta actually stands for Disappointment?

Absolutely.

Doing Mirage justice would have been enough to save this thing imo but, alas, Kawamori is senile enough to think delta is a good product.

The scales appear to mean she does not have 15 years. Because she uses her rune so intensely, she might be gone in months, at best in a few years. When Hayate realizes this, will he ask her to stop singing? Novel/manga hook?

Definitely less than 15, maybe 5 or 3, but who knows really?

Fixing the lifespan problem altogether like some theorized would have been better.

I feel Delta might mark the end of Macross franchise as we know it. A shame.

They should have just call it something else entirely.

Edited by crixskn
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What a disappointing series overall. It had so much promise in the beginning, yet it resorted to fillers and plot dumps halfway. Furthermore, it suffers from having just too many characters. As a result, the final episode was a completely forced ending that merely rips off every Macross ending.

Overall, here's how it ranks on my list:

1. Macross Plus (1994)

2. The Super Dimension Fortress Macross (1982)

3. The Super Dimension Fortress Macross: Do You Remember Love (1984) / Flash Back 2012 (1986)

4. Macross Frontier (2008)

5. Macross Frontier Movie Duology (2009/2011)

6. Macross Zero (2002)

7. Macross 7 (1995)

8. The Super Dimension Fortress Macross II: Lovers Again (1992)

9. Macross Delta (2016)

10. Macross Dynamite 7 (1997)

Man, cannot agree more. Just to add sth, this series has an incredible J-Pop overload... Basically, I love Macross series for the mecha side, the action, and the plot. Yes, the usual triangles add some twists and turns of the main plot, but even though music is an important part of Macross, the amount of Jpop in Delta is even above Macross 7 and dynamite...

First episode brought a lot of promises and hype... but it turned out to be mere smoke...

my .02

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My general reaction: positive, all is forgiven, Shoji Kawamori-san. I bow to your writer/fan mightiness.

But this is personal, about the very idea, and has little to do with some very obvious flaws in execution.

You see, ever since about 1989-90, when I was in my early teenage years, I was furious about Asimov, my favourite sci fi writer back then (I still admire him a lot), doing the "artificial old all-wise robot lewads humanity into unity in a neural network and that's great" thing in Foundation and Earth. Zeroth Law, all that. It sounded like a betrayal of his own earlier ideals, which were not quite Heinlein but still pretty individualistic.

And Kawamori has, I think, read the books. And looks like he felt what I felt. His first attack at the idea, as I now realize, was in Frontier; but in Frontier, only an "elite" wanted to be a neural network and rule the rest, so this was not a direct hit. He still did the excellent "Sheryl and Ranka demonstrate to the Vajra what individual differences mean" turn, though.

But now, he intentionally fires a friggin' Macross Cannon at Gaia and all that jazz. Just what I wanted for 25 years, man, 25 years!

So I'm thankful for that.

I don't get it, how a neural network with rune enhanced winderjin ( racial nomenklatura here) at its core is so different from Grace project?

Shooting at the collectivist utopia was also made in Frontier.

But is it really the collectivist utopia? Taste like some transhuman/libertarian one for me.

Problem is the lines are blurred between the collectivist dream society and the super individualistic social order, imho, so im not so sure about this interpretation for Macross.

Is there individuality in everyone listening to Walkure?

Do the people in the show react differently between Walkure songs and Mikumo ones? I mean...They are brainwashed, victim of it in both case since it makes them react on a genetic level.

The concert they made in Valkyries outfit, everyone was sucked into it, forgeting everything else and compulsively paying? Huuummm... Smells bad to me

Someone said its Hayate fold quartz (another plothole) that makes him react so strongly to Freija. I found this idea so entertaining, what if it was love weaponized? Control other people in the same way Roid/Grace are trying to achieve. What does it says about the whole Walkure project/Lady weaponising culture? With a flavor of the week (the girls), and no real choice.

Propaganda inducted music on a grand scale?

Are NUNS with their multicultural socialy free/racially, equitable, empire the bad guys? Yes they are ruthless, but they are facing mass social control (through an oligarchy again) on a galactic scale.

I also believe a racial lecture of things is more visible than the political order of things in this show.

In the end isn't shooting at the protoculture reversing in a way into barbary? (Heroes "guided" by emotions, Nuns lack of care for life). The AI oboeteimasuka by Mikumo is a reversal from DYRL, have our main characters forgot about culture? (well ...Idols...yeah...).

But to be franc does it even matter? If the execution is so bad you can't really convey the ideas... :(

Edited by asukamaru
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Just to add some positivity.

The animation is great!

Mecha designs great!

Macross universe development added depth.

Last episode all battle, less babble..I like.

I liked the music from this series more than frontier.

(Tho not really into poppy teanage music anymore.)

Enjoyed the idea of Windemere and its people

Otherwise..

Help me stay positive y'all..!

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Just to add some positivity.

The animation is great!

Mecha designs great!

Macross universe development added depth.

Last episode all battle, less babble..I like.

I liked the music from this series more than frontier.

(Tho not really into poppy teanage music anymore.)

Enjoyed the idea of Windemere and its people

Otherwise..

Help me stay positive y'all..!

If you enjoyed Delta my friend, I say more power to you!! B))

Maybe down the road, I'll give the series a full rewatch start to finish. Maybe I'll enjoy it more a second time around.

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I watched the finale today and although I didn't hate it, I never really felt invested in it. It had its moments, and I even enjoyed a lot of it. But it never hooked me. And Spanner, I'm not even excited by the toys anymore...

And that's sad. I'm not sure if it's me or the show but I'd have thought I'd be more willing to invest in the toy side of things than I am. You know, appreciate the designs for what they are and focus on that. But nothing resonated with me enough to make me want to plonk down largish sums of money on the toys.

Maybe those MechaColle kits are going to be all I get. Even that's sort of not all that exciting for me though.

Anyway, I guess I'm describing a very "meh" sort of response to all this. It's not completely neutral and probably more to the positive side of things but it never quite won me over. Maybe it wasn't long enough? I think that at least makes me feel a bit better.

Positives for me:

  • Learning that something came of the Megaroad
  • Seeing lots of Protoculture "stuff" which had to be far more than we've ever seen in any other series
  • Getting a definitive statement on the Protoculture's role in establishing humanoids all over the galaxy (I guess we got that in 7 and a bit in Frontier as well but still, we see lots of 'children' in this series)
  • Some new worlds
  • And I'm sure I'm missing still others but those are the main ones

I'd list negatives but I not feeling the need to jump up and down on a bandwagon I think I'm clearly already riding in.

Edited by mickyg
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Well that's better.

Finally saw the subs and can have an informed opinion that includes the dialogue.

After seeing the episode, I suspect had they stuck to the original plan, the show would have been as popular as Frontier, but for different reasons.

Still a tassel of loose ends though:

Why was the Sigur Valens built and who did it?

Why was the Star Singer created and who did it?

Why were the Windies created to run it and who did it?

Why did Immelman senior drop the bomb on a population center?

Where the hell were Johnson's tactics for 25 episodes?? The Elysion could nearly take out a fleet of Windy cap ships on her own, but never tried?

Why introduce Lady M if we never learn who she is <checkov's gun>?

Why bring up the Megaroad 01 if it had no impact on the overall story <checkov's gun>?

What will happen with Mikumo now that NUNS knows the extent of her power?

________________________________________________________________________________

Back to my review of the episode and series as a whole:

Now, it was nice to see the resolution to the love triangle in a way we haven't seen since SDFM. Mirage lost, but consoles herself at least with flying. Though Minmay's love of singing trumped her love of Hikaru.

Roid turned out to be a good villain, but we only get this at the very end? Very disappointing. He saw the galactic mind control more than just a conquest, but as a means to immortality. He intermixed the morality of his actions as being for the greater good of his people and for the evolution of the children of the PC, like a demagogue who saw himself as the answer to galactic peace. I like the nuances even though we were treated to this at the end the show. Grace's take was more as a Corporate operative on a mission for an amoral company.

Bogue stayed true to his character by saving Reina and Makina, but with a caveat that it was a one time thing.

The whole ensarement of the mind control tendrils was long and killed the initial momentum of the episode. Yes it added a sense of peril, but was belabored far too long.

The SV's turning white were visual indicators of mind controlled pilots, not actual color changes. The aircraft are not vajra who could have conceivably changed color in Frontier.

The Sigur Valens survived, although very damaged.

We never learned why the war of independence actually happened. A better plot point would be that the NUNS wanted to confiscate the SV as a PC artifact and the Windies wouldn't give it up as it was considered a sacred item to them. So the NUNG chose to destroy it. A heavy handed act for the Feds, but provocative enough to start a war like that. A side note- I always felt the Valens should have broken through the mountain top instead of having a ridiculously large doorway. This would have implied it was buried and that the Windies excavated it within the mountain as it lay.

Why were the Windies allowed to leave Ragna with the SV as damaged as she was? It was still a threat to the region, even hobbled as it became. As far as I'm aware the original projector is still on board. This is not a toy the Windies should be able to take back home!

Heinz holds on to the futile plan to take out the NUNG. His aces in the hole are gone, Roid and the Star Singer projector are destroyed and the Valens is heavily damaged. They do not seem to have the tech savvy or the life span to fix it any time soon.

Epsilon Corp seems to have abandoned them and the sector is going to have a serious hate on for Windermere now. I'm sure the terms of any peace treaty will be to hand over the Sigur Valens to the NUNG (assuming Epsilon will not try to destroy it before NUNS can get a closer look at it).

Epsilon itself is more of a threat now that Windermere. They have all the data they collected from the Sigur Valens and they will be able to incorporate their research into new more powerful weapons that will likely rival or surpass that of the Federal NUNS.

Reina and Makina are a heavily implied couple now.

Keith and Roid seemed to be unconsumated lovers who died together.

The universe building in this series was considerable, but not nearly complete. I get SK may have wanted to build up the mystery, but you have to have an equal number of answers to the new questions.

There is definitely a set up for a follow up movie, but who knows if that will happen.


to be honest I can't even bring myself to watch the last two episodes.. :wacko:

the whole series has been kinda blah.. :(

I guess im only in it for the Valkyrie toys! :p:lol::rolleyes:

Check out the last two anyway, just so you can say you did... ;)

Edited by Zinjo
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Positive. At least, this is the best in the last 13 episodes.

We get to see the action we've wanted, although the intensity of the battle is disrupted by talking between naked people.

It concludes only the triangle love & Roid's diabolical plot. Some other aspects are left unclarified.

Seeing how Windies lost most of their strength (the ultimate weapon a.k.a star singer, the mastermind & the best knight), it will be stupid if Heinz still want to continue the galactic conquest.

I think they even have their back against the corner now, as Roids' 'humanoids neural network' won't be ignored now, and Heinz will have to be responsible for that.

If there is a movie (or two) for this, it will be more like retelling/recap of the TV episodes, it will not be an extension/continuation of the TV.

Question : Does XAOS consider Hayate as ace pilot now that they grant him permission to have personal emblem on the fighter ? Or does the emblem only there because the 31 has Messer's flight data ?

to be honest I can't even bring myself to watch the last two episodes.. :wacko:

the whole series has been kinda blah.. :(

I guess im only in it for the Valkyrie toys! :p:lol::rolleyes:

Then just watch the last episode, fast-forward the talking part :p
Edited by trojan_gambit
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Question : Does XAOS consider Hayate as ace pilot now that they grant him permission to have personal emblem on the fighter ? Or does the emblem only there because the 31 has Messer's flight data ?

All of Delta's planes are customized 31's. They just gave him a new 31J with Messer's combat data loaded in it. So that emblem is symbolizes the combination of Hayate and Messer.

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Question : Does XAOS consider Hayate as ace pilot now that they grant him permission to have personal emblem on the fighter ? Or does the emblem only there because the 31 has Messer's flight data ?

My question is, how much are the fighters controlled by AI now? If Messer's flight data makes Hayate's refurbed fighter "better" then one wonders how much flying skill is actually him or the fighter?

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Now what you've all been waiting for my opinion!

I've been very busy and just took a break to watch this last episode. I'll only give negative or neutral votes with this series. I kind of liked this episode and gave it a neutral. This decision was based only episode 26 episode alone. It felt like good ending meant for a different series than the one I actually watched.

Episode 26 was clearly based of all the forced and badly introduced plots introduced in the 2nd half. It was an okay episode but when I judge along with the rest of the series I have to be harder on it. If they did a better job on the 2nd half I would have cared more for the characters involved. I found all the Windermere plots uninteresting. Roid vs Keith had no meaning for me. Walkure saving Mikumo had no meaning either.

The first episode introduced us to the 3 leads. The stage throughout the series should have been their's. I would have preferred that Freyja's power of love (ugh) only freed Hayate. Then as the sole hero fueled by Freyja's song he alone went to challenge Roid. It would have been a better ending if he saved the day.

Now to the dumb stuff. Nothing about Lady M. Why waste time talking about her if there's isn't going to be a pay off? Oh look more naked floating people in dream land (ugh).

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...

Now to the dumb stuff. Nothing about Lady M. Why waste time talking about her if there's isn't going to be a pay off? Oh look more naked floating people in dream land (ugh).

just commenting on this... there were a lot of unneeded things, lady M (irrelevant), creepy NUNS guys (irrelevant), evil twin brothers (irrelevant), Master Hermann Munster (irrelevant), Chuck (irrelevant), Chuck's family... did anyone ever see them again after the birthday ep (irrelevant), Marianne (irrelevant), Windermere fleet (irrelevant), Windermere mooks (irrelevant, they could've all been just Lil' Drakkens), NUNS local forces (irrelevant), Cat daddy (irrelevant), seacat (cute in the beginning, but rendered irrelevant to the series as a whole post Ragna), Ernie Johnson and the bridge crew (about as relevant as the Perry twins in Frontier), Elysion (irrelevant, I know Macross Quarter, and Elysion, you ain't no Macross Quarter)

Worst of all, those crappy Windermere songs that I have dubbed Jingle Bells and Silent Night... totally irrelevant.

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I've voted neutral.

It's just bland to me. I agree with another member on the board that it is like the episode is created following a checklist. You've got the ingredients, but you don't have the chemicals.

And the Grace plot v2.0 is just lazy story writing. Ruling over them is sufficient; why the network part?

Edit: And Roid looks like a male Grace to me too. The glasses, the face, the hair.

Edited by ff95gj
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My question is, how much are the fighters controlled by AI now? If Messer's flight data makes Hayate's refurbed fighter "better" then one wonders how much flying skill is actually him or the fighter?

Good point. If it's the AI/Fligth data that makes Hayate flies better, then they could have install it for the whole fleet.

And the Grace plot v2.0 is just lazy story writing. Ruling over them is sufficient; why the network part?

Yes. From what I see so far, Roid's motive for having hidden agenda (even from Heinz & Keith) is unclear.

Basically, Roid is doing what Heinz wants to achieve, not sure why Heinz turn his back.

So in this matter, either Roid betrays Heinz, or the other way around: Heinz is the one betraying Roid.

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I totally spaced on that Heinz getting poisoned plot, what ever became of that plotline. I've totally forgotten.

I think the poisoning was an implication, but the way the reveal played out, the first doctor may have been implying to Keith that Heinz was being treated for old age by telling Keith what drugs were being used, which Keith confirmed through the Jussilas and further confirmed by yanking off the covers.

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God damn did this series end poorly.

I mean sure Freya fans get their ship, but the writing, pacing, plot holes, and character development for the rest of the show just plain sucked.

Despite not seeing any of the other Macross series, apart from DYRL and Frontier, I feel like Delta is the Spider-man 3 of the franchise. It was doomed to fail from the moment Kawamori didn't get to do his initial pitch. And so he made a ham fisted effort to please his bosses, and shoved in as many characters and plots as possible and called it a day.

I was also really disappointed with how Mirage was handled throughout the series. Sure she finally got good at flying, but it came out of nowhere and didn't feel earned.

Also the love triangle was crap. There was no misdirection at all. She lost all the way back in the birthday episode, which was ages ago. At least Ranka had a chance in winning Alto and actively made an effort to be relevant to the plot.

Which is really disappoint considering I genuinely enjoyed the first 12 episodes.

I think if I ever decide to buy the remaining 5 blu ray volumes, I'll wait until I can get them second hand for cheap, because $105AUD for each volume is a hard pill to swallow, and that's not even counting shipping.

I will however still be purchasing the albums, because despite the series major flaws I still enjoy the music.

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Man, cannot agree more. Just to add sth, this series has an incredible J-Pop overload... Basically, I love Macross series for the mecha side, the action, and the plot. Yes, the usual triangles add some twists and turns of the main plot, but even though music is an important part of Macross, the amount of Jpop in Delta is even above Macross 7 and dynamite...

I would suspect they are fairly even. The trouble with M7 is they had only 3 songs for the first cour and were repeated at nausium. Good songs it turned out, but familiarity bred contempt for me.

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Man, cannot agree more. Just to add sth, this series has an incredible J-Pop overload... Basically, I love Macross series for the mecha side, the action, and the plot. Yes, the usual triangles add some twists and turns of the main plot, but even though music is an important part of Macross, the amount of Jpop in Delta is even above Macross 7 and dynamite...

Well that's not surprising, given that M7 and Dynamite have more J-Rock than J-Pop? ;)

Seriously - the amount of new songs is a part I liked. Even though most of them are quite forgettable, at least they are not repetitive. They only really got repetitive with Giraffe Blues but it's not a bad song and they at least cared enough to make a few different arrangement.

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