Alien: Covenant (formerly known as Prometheus 2)

[spanner]

saw this today with my son. Was ok but definitely not anywhere as good as I was hoping or expecting.. still glad I saw it in the cinema though.

[myk]

8 hours ago, Black Valkyrie said:

 

Just came back from the theater, 6 out of 10 . 

 

Care to elaborate?

[Hikuro]

it was kinda choppy in some areas I blame editing, the xenomorph wasn't formidable at all, the Neomorphs either. It was almost like they had A LOT they wanted to tell but just not enough time again so it got condensed like Prometheus. It was okay of a movie but it wasn't good at all. Felt like Ridley threw this all together to have us shut up and say "Finally, an alien, F off now!"

[Black Valkyrie]

3 hours ago, myk said:

Care to elaborate?

Had to ease my mind first.  Five years to make a sequel and the result .............., the story was rushed.  It seems Scott and his team, don't know what to do with the franchise. 

Spoiler

1- The movie has erased the AvP movie history, since the Xenomorphs were engineered by David but how and where is the Queen to lay the eggs.  

2- Dr. Liz Shaw was unwise to trust David, knowing his actions previously in the first movie.   She became David's experiment.      

 

 

[TangledThorns]

Just saw it. Gory with amazing effects but that's about it. No real scares and an ending that was pretty weak. 

Based on footage we've seen in trailers I suspect there is a director's cut that could make this film better.

 

[Thom]

Are we back down to only one survivor..?

[TehPW]

I caved in and looked at the synopsis on wiki. I'm pretty convinced its even more retarded than Prometheus... I think I'll pass. 

[Seto Kaiba]

53 minutes ago, TehPW said:

I caved in and looked at the synopsis on wiki. I'm pretty convinced its even more retarded than Prometheus... I think I'll pass. 

I've tried to avoid reading reviews, so I thought I was fairly safe taking in the TVTropes page with Spoilers off... I'm a bit worried by the fact that its Narm and Too Dumb To Live entries are whole pages in their own right, and that there's frequent mention of setting a particular action sequence to Yakity Sax.

I'm still gonna see it, but I'm a little worried now.

[anime52k8]

6 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

I've tried to avoid reading reviews, so I thought I was fairly safe taking in the TVTropes page with Spoilers off...

I honestly can't think of a worse way to get an impression of a film I haven't seen yet than that.

anyways, it was signifigantly better than Prometheus. I'm still kind of mad at it but doesn't annoy me nearly as much.

Edited May 21, 2017 by anime52k8

[Kurisama]

Good god, a lot of you people must really be fun at parties... Go see the movie, make up your own damn minds!!

Be more like Isamu and try the damn fruit yourself to be sure.

I thought the movie was perfectly fine, but then again I'm a huge fan of Prometheus. To me, I'm just enjoying the ride from Sir Ridley. So far so good.

I'm really tired of the endless forum posts/youtube vids 'explaining' the ending or whatever, can't people nowadays just ask their own questions and make their own assumptions or theories? It's more fun that way, no body should enjoy having every little detail explained to them. 

Get of my lawn.

[myk]

Sorry dad, we'll stop talking and go to bed now...

[Kurisama]

Please do. Can you also take out the trash on your way too, please?

 

Seriously tho, I liked Covenant even tho I would have liked the trajectory the Prometheus was going in - I liked the mystery, i liked the ancient tech that was so far advanced than ours - I liked the little of what we saw in the 'military installation' that could be further explored, either revisiting LV-226 (262? I don't remember) or on an engineer world.

Contrary to what Hukuro said, I thought the aliens all round where crazy formidable and just knew that no one had much of a chance if they got too close. I loved the look, feel and movement of the new Alien. Head-butts FTW.

Edited May 21, 2017 by Kurisama

[technoblue]

I would rank the movie higher than both Prometheus and Alien: Resurrection. It has its own WTF moments, yes, but I can forgive most of them. My one criticism is that there was a lot of top-heavy exposition which got in the way of a really suspenseful film. 

Spoiler

I would have liked it if David was kept in the background as a silent, unseen antagonist luring the colonists to their fate--maybe even infiltrating the landing team as Walter early on. I guess that would have been a lot like the Mother/Ash dynamic from the original film, but I feel it would have been more suspenseful than trotting David out with a flare gun and explaining how he was helping to evolve the virus discovered by the Prometheus crew. And if they had been able to pull off the not-Walter/David thing for the audience, the showdown between the two androids near the end would have left more of an impression.

Edited May 21, 2017 by technoblue

[TangledThorns]

MAKE ALIEN SCARY AGAIN

[sh9000]

NECA toys.

[TangledThorns]

I just pre-ordered the 'making of' book that is to be released this week.

 

The Art and Making of Alien: Covenant

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1785653814/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apa_qKGizbNHGSV73

Also ordered this book too.

Alien: The Weyland-Yutani Report

https://www.amazon.com/dp/160887866X/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apa_vMGizbM81RQP6

[Kanedas Bike]

Saw it earlier today.

Saying that this movie was better than Prometheus is like saying "I stepped in a pile of dog sh!t, but it was only a small pile".

Covenant is indeed better, mostly because the characters weren't as mind-numbingly stupid with their decision making processes - still dumb, just not AS dumb.

Pretty visuals in movie = Check

Characters making dumb choices = Check

Fassbender giving a strong performance = Check

Reaffirmation that Ridley Scott needs to leave Aliens the hell alone = Check

I hope that after the third movie in this trilogy Scott never touches the franchise again. If the franchise even survives.

 

Spoiler

And if you liked the easter-egg in Predator 2 showing the Alien skull, well too bad because this movie just took a sh!t on that and anything else that ever showed an Alien that appeared chronologically before this movie. Since it was David that created the Xenomorphs that we know from all of the previous Alien movies using the idiots, I mean crew, of the Covenant.

I will give this movie credit for one thing, I'm even more curious how everything will be tied together and lead into Alien. But I have almost no faith that Scott and pull it off in a way that actually respects the franchise (Alien, Aliens and even the "better" parts of Alien 3 and Resurrection).

-b.

Edited May 21, 2017 by Kanedas Bike

[Seto Kaiba]

12 hours ago, anime52k8 said:

I honestly can't think of a worse way to get an impression of a film I haven't seen yet than that.

anyways, it was signifigantly better than Prometheus. I'm still kind of mad at it but doesn't annoy me nearly as much.

That was the plan... to come away with as little plot-contextual information as humanly possible and just get a read on what people thought of the film without succumbing to any spoileriffic reviews.

[technoblue]

1 hour ago, Kanedas Bike said:

Saw it earlier today.

Saying that this movie was better than Prometheus is like saying "I stepped in a pile of dog sh!t, but it was only a small pile".

Covenant is indeed better, mostly because the characters weren't as mind-numbingly stupid with their decision making processes - still dumb, just not AS dumb.

I think each of the movies have characters who should know better, but end up making dumb decisions at critical moments. I think it's necessary to move the story forward.

• In Alien, you have Dallas who originally agreed to put the whole crew of the Nostromo at risk. Kane who got too curious. Ash who was...well...Ash.
• In Aliens, you have Burke, you have the colonial marines who were completely unprepared to "rescue" the colonists and who also didn't take Ripley seriously at first. 

Many mistakes were made. For me, the difference with the mistakes in the original films is that they didn't pull me out of those movies. The characters were established in such a way that the mistakes felt like mistakes they would make under that kind of pressure. I can't say that I got the same feeling from Prometheus. Alien: Covenant did a slightly better job establishing some of its characters,  but not all of them, and I was still pulled out of the story at times when someone was acting B-grade horror film dumb.

[Kanedas Bike]

48 minutes ago, technoblue said:

I think each of the movies have characters who should know better, but end up making dumb decisions at critical moments. I think it's necessary to move the story forward.

• In Alien, you have Dallas who originally agreed to put the whole crew of the Nostromo at risk. Kane who got too curious. Ash who was...well...Ash.
• In Aliens, you have Burke, you have the colonial marines who were completely unprepared to "rescue" the colonists and who also didn't take Ripley seriously at first. 

Many mistakes were made. For me, the difference with the mistakes in the original films is that they didn't pull me out of those movies. The characters were established in such a way that the mistakes felt like mistakes they would make under that kind of pressure. I can't say that I got the same feeling from Prometheus. Alien: Covenant did a slightly better job establishing some of its characters,  but not all of them, and I was still pulled out of the story at times when someone was acting B-grade horror film dumb.

Most if not all movies, regardless of genre have characters that should know better in one instance or another. But therein is the distinction, in Prometheus and to a lesser extent Covenant the characters make choices that are just dumb. There's no other way to slice it.

Regarding Alien, it's been awhile since I've watched it but I never in all of the viewings felt that any of the characters were dumb or made obscenely obtuse decisions . Just that they were outmatched by an Alien lifeform. Ash didn't make uninformed or dumb decisions, he was more antagonist than anything else and you could argue that he was more evil than the Xenomorph (a la David).

Regarding Aliens, the marines too were woefully outmatched by the sheer number of Aliens combined with a built in arrogance and/or disbelief that they would come up against anything more challenging than colonist daughters that needed rescuing from their...uh...innocence. Burke was a corporate scumbag, presumably the same type that built in the very command override that sent the Nostromo to LV-426 to begin with.

I very much agree that nothing took me out of Alien, Aliens, Alien 3 or Alien Resurrection (well maybe the Alien baby-hybrid thing) - and certainly not any of the choices the characters made.

I've been watching a few of the presumed deleted and/or viral clips and some of those could have made Covenant marginally better, but again Ridley made an Alien movie with so much wasted potential. I can imagine that after another viewing or two at home my opinion might be less harsh, but it won't change the fact that I still feel like I "stepped in it".

It's like someone sketchy asked me to look inside of a weird alien egg or something...and I was like "ok sure". 

-b.

[jenius]

Some of that comes from the background of the characters. It's like that poster earlier. In alien the protagonists are future space truckers. For right or wrong, we expect blue collar decision makers to make practical decisions. If the audience knows it's the wrong decision, at least we also know why the character chooses to behave in a certain way. The same thing goes for Aliens. We have space marines making decisions that, on their surface, at least seem justifiable from the perspective of a marine. It  may be an overly cocky stereotypical marine, but we're given enough of the characters to understand that. Alien 3 we have prisoners making the decisions we would expect prisoners to make with enough story around them to give a little more basis (ie. the religious stuff). In Prometheus, we have a scientific mission with specially selected smart people making common sense stupid decisions. To make it worse, we're not given background that these are just book smart nerds... the background we're given seems to imply all of these people have practical applications of their expertise. Then these experts surrender to stupidity at every possible turn in the road. The whole rolling ship that crushes Charlize Theron's character becomes symbolic imagery of the prevailing stupidity of the entire spectacle.

It's not bad writing to have someone make a stupid decision, especially if context is given be it panic or misjudgment. It is bad writing to set someone up as an expert, never given cause for doubt, and then have them act in patently stupid ways until the demise of themselves and others. 

This gets back to the "MAKE ALIENS SCARY" statement as well. Alien is scary when we can imagine ourselves in the shoes of the protagonists. When we spend the whole time thinking "Oh this idiot DESERVES to die" it's a whole lot less scary. 

[Mog]

Is it bad that I'm more curious about the

the Engineers' motivations and backgrounds? Or what exactly is the reason for all of David's doings and experimentations?

I think a film that explored either of those ideas would've been more interesting/compelling.

[Kurisama]

As far as David goes, in running with all the biblical overtones - the old proverb  "idle hands are the devil's workshop" comes to mind.

[anime52k8]

18 minutes ago, Mog said:

Is it bad that I'm more curious about the

  Reveal hidden contents

the Engineers' motivations and backgrounds? Or what exactly is the reason for all of David's doings and experimentations?

 

I think a film that explored either of those ideas would've been more interesting/compelling.

 

 

Spoiler

I'd love an answer to what's up with the Engineers considering Prometheus was sold on the idea that it would answer that question then sold everyone on a sequel with the promise that eventually we'd get an answer. But no, everyone's dead and we'll never know because we've only got a limited amount of time to steer this crap show into Alien station.

 

 

 

[Kanedas Bike]

5 hours ago, Kurisama said:

As far as David goes, in running with all the biblical overtones - the old proverb  "idle hands are the devil's workshop" comes to mind.

Plus

Spoiler

 

He hates his creator, Mr. Weyland and all humans who he sees as inferior and if the Engineers created the humans then, those giant bastards have to go too. Nevermind that his programing is degrading as shown in him getting an author or writer wrong (I forgot if it was as song/symphony or book/play). Those are his true motivations - disappointment that devolves into hatred.

His character I don't have an issue plus Fassbender was great as Walter and David. His and the Aliens are the purest motivations throughout Prometheus and Covenant.

 

-b.

[TangledThorns]

I realized the biggest change in the villains between the first 4 ALIEN films and the post-Prometheus is corporate greed was replaced with scientific.

Fassbender's David is turning into a very interesting villain and is my only real curiosity about where the next film goes. The movie did well enough for its opening weekend so I suspect we'll see more Ridley Scott ALIEN movies.

 

 

 

[Kanedas Bike]

4 hours ago, TangledThorns said:

I realized the biggest change in the villains between the first 4 ALIEN films and the post-Prometheus is corporate greed was replaced with scientific.

Fassbender's David is turning into a very interesting villain and is my only real curiosity about where the next film goes. The movie did well enough for its opening weekend so I suspect we'll see more Ridley Scott ALIEN movies.

 

 

 

More like a shift from corporate greed to moral corruption and "what does it all mean?" and how that question can lead to some very dark places.

Fassbender was flat out awesome.

Based purely on how much I think Scott has missed the boat, as long as the planned next installment in the Prometheus trilogy is his last "Alien" movie then hurry up and bring it on. 

I don't care if it's Blomkamp or someone else, as long as they can build upon Alien and/or Aliens I'll be happy.

-b.

[Hikuro]

I saw the movie the film friday  night and my only real compliment was the theater I was at was freaking awesome serving me beer and burgers straight from my seat. Other than that there were some issues I had with the movie such as James Franco for instance. But also just the pacing of the film was horribly wrong.

[TangledThorns]

8 hours ago, Hikuro said:

I saw the movie the film friday  night and my only real compliment was the theater I was at was freaking awesome serving me beer and burgers straight from my seat. Other than that there were some issues I had with the movie such as James Franco for instance. But also just the pacing of the film was horribly wrong.

Alamo drafthouse? We have one here in NOVA and while the food & drink is nice its become a turn-off as we've experienced one too many a-holes getting too drunk and stupid during a movie.

 

[Hikuro]

2 hours ago, TangledThorns said:

Alamo drafthouse? We have one here in NOVA and while the food & drink is nice its become a turn-off as we've experienced one too many a-holes getting too drunk and stupid during a movie.

 

Nah Cinatopia, there's a limit on alcohol there I think.

[TangledThorns]

Just got the 'making of' book and it's really cool. Highly recommended.

 

Edited May 23, 2017 by TangledThorns

[Golden Arms]

I saw the film at the Alamo drafthouse Saturday night.

[kajnrig]

Saw it on a whim earlier today. I don't really care about the Alien franchise; the only one I've seen was Alien, and that about a year ago or so. I thought it was fine, and I can see why it became a hit, but I wasn't struck by it as maybe I would have been ten, twenty years ago. So going into this, I wasn't looking for a good horror/sci-fi/action movie so much as just a good movie.

I was completely okay with it, could chalk this and that up to suspension of disbelief, until

the first proto-Xenomorph bit. Hoooooly crap, could you panic any more? This is supposed to be a colonizing force and they panic at the SMALLEST sign of something wrong? Come on. And I don't mean when the thing finally bursts out of the dude's back or even when its back spikes first poke through, but just seeing a sick person coming to the ship sends her into an unintelligible panic? Boo. How are you NOT trained for a medical/biohazard emergency? Heck, how is the expedition team not trained to WEAR SOME FRICKIN' HELMETS ON AN ALIEN PLANET!?!?!?!? Apparently this is a thing in Prometheus, too? Like how are you NOT going to be suspicious as frakk about a habitable planet with FLORA ALREADY ON IT!?!?!?!?

And the crew's stupidity just continues and continues and continues and I just care less and less and less. Why would you, acting captain, follow a super shady android whom you ACTIVELY SUSPECT AFTER SEEING HIM BE CHUMMY WITH AN ALIEN into an isolated basement room ALONE!?!?!?!?!?

AAAAAARGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH

But actually, turn your brain off and it's fine, I guess. Feels like it wants to be two separate movies, though, and from what I've heard about the making of it, it WAS kind of two separate movies that got forced together.

[renegadeleader1]

Reading through everyone's reactions I've come to realize something. We are so desperate for anything sci-fi that's not a superhero film we end up accepting anything bad or mediocre as decent and worth watching to fill that void.

When the common critic is "It was decently good except for this, this, this, and this, and I don't know why they did that." It means the movie sucked. I know it, you know it, hell everybody knows andn we should stop accepting this mediocre sucky bullcrap. We should expect and demand better.

[anime52k8]

we should all just be bitter and angry and have no fun and yell out our window at children for making too much noise as they walk down the street.