To support Third Party or not to support.....that is the question

[dodiano]

How many Macroos 3rd party Companies are there??

[xrentonx]

It's either lots or a handful...

[SchizophrenicMC]

Here's a hypothetical question: would people be willing to accept unlicensed third party companies making high quality knock offs of official first party items that the original manufactures are no longer making? For instance, what if somebody started making exact replicas of the 1/48 VF-1, since we know Arcadia didn't even pick up the molds from Yamato and has no intention or revisiting that mold.

No, because the 1/48 VF-1 is terrible, and nobody should have ever spent money on the original. ragglefragglestupid25thanniversaryvf1

With that said, I don't have any moral objection to reproduction of out-of-production items. If the original manufacturer has decided to cease producing something and don't want to attempt to generate any further profit, why shouldn't it be fair game? Whatever niche market demand remains will be filled, and either way the original manufacturer won't be making any money off of it. I, for one, am a big fan of aftermarket replicas of factory car parts that are hard to come by. The headlights I just bought for my Jeep, for example, made Chrysler no money at all, but they're just like they were brand new.

What I do object to is low quality. Stupid Yamato fitment.

[CrazyDude]

Many companies have only limited/quantity licences, it costs money to renew licenses.

Real question is how much are the third parties paying for copying someones work ie the licence holders or the people that invested time, money and effort to bring an official and licences product to us.

[anime52k8]

Answering my own question, I would totally buy KO's of the Renewal VF-25 armor parts because the second hand prices are outrageous and I'm tired of waiting on Bandai to do a reissue. as long as they're of the same quality and price as the originals.

[David Hingtgen]

Just imagine if someone KO'd the super parts, but altered/improved the hip-armor to clip in using the intake cover slots...

[dodiano]

So what will for example my VF-1A Cockpit panel be considered a Third party??? Will I get HG all over me?

[SchizophrenicMC]

So what will for example my VF-1A Cockpit panel be considered a Third party??? Will I get HG all over me?

You can make anything you want, so long as you don't sell it.

[CrazyDude]

I don't support Third Party products unless they are AM kits/detail parts.

[dodiano]

You can make anything you want, so long as you don't sell it.

Isn't that the whole idea of 3rd party companies?

[chyll2]

Isn't that the whole idea of 3rd party companies?

no. if you dont sell it, then you are just another modeller who really likes to customize his own work/model/toy.

[SchizophrenicMC]

If you're just a dude who likes to build cool stuff, and it's Macross-related, there's nothing HG or anybody can do to you. Even if you make a scratch copy of something licensed, as long as you don't sell it.

If you're a dude or group of dudes who make Macross-related stuff and sell it without a license, you're technically violating copyright law. But I think copyright law is a bit ancient in its implementation. Why is foregone opportunity a right to be protected? If you choose not to make money on an idea or a product by not making that product, you're not losing any money when somebody else does. Where I agree with the law is when bootlegs of in-production products exist. If you're making a product, and somebody else copies that physical product and sells it (possibly at an undercut price) your own sales generally will drop, and you will lose money over what you should have been making at a given market demand. Copyright ought to serve to protect against the latter scenario, and not the former.

[dodiano]

Agree with you but how about if someone for example made an addon for your existing Valks... for the 1/48 scale that is no longer been produced?

I mean get the transformers for example, Hasbro is not making a masterpiece Ironhide... So a company has made one. Os not using logos but everybody knows is ironhide... Is hasbro loosing money? You have Kronos...for ages people have been asking for a look alike jetfire? Hasbro does not deliver someone else does. Is a character that exists but the toy has not been made.

Beauty of the third party company... Why not support something like this for Macross

[Scream Man]

So if the model of 3P transformers flowed ovr, and the costs associated with it, I wouldnt get anything. No way I can afford Macross toy price adjusted 3P products.

If the prices were comparable, it would depend. Maybe some of the more obscure fighters if they were good quality. Add on sets, like little 1/60 ground crew or other figures I could get behind. Replacememnt pieces for existing fighters I could go with; Like David mentioned with the hip covers on the 25 series. Maybe replacement gunpods for the 25's,since i have had 2 break on me now.

I have BEGGED for third party sticker sheets with lists of names of pilots we could stick on the planes

So we'll see. But I doubt it will ever be an issue really, Macross is to niche.

[GU-11]

Agree with you but how about if someone for example made an addon for your existing Valks... for the 1/48 scale that is no longer been produced?

Just my 2 cents' worth here, but accessories will probably not be worth the paper the C&D is printed on. Sure, anything you can find in concept art or in the movies (short of fair usage items) is considered copyrighted material, but it really depends on whether the company cares enough to pursue it.

Let's take Hasbro and the various accessories and add-ons at Shapeways for its TF franchise. Arguably, if Hasbro wanted to pursue it, even the gun that Optimus uses in a show is considered copyrighted material, but the kind of effort they'd have to spend issuing C&D's to each individual 3d designer is just not worth it. And frankly, it doesn't hurt their profits because they're not complete Transformers, and cannot be used as standalone products without being added to an actual Transformer toy.

Back to Macross, if one were to make FAST pack accessories for the 1/48 scale VF-1's, it's probably safe. Yamato's gone under and Arcadia doesn't seem interested in making anything in 1/48th scale. Hard to tell with BW.

Except HG, where they'll sue you for painting a peace sign in white and red colors, because it "bears plausible resemblance to the UN Spacy logo."

[valhary]

It is an endless debate in my opinion even a toy is based in a sketch to move of the 2d to the 3d object become in a original product because not exist in the physical plane until that is made

like all toys of the vf 1 all based in the same lineart however all are different an not only in scale we are talking sculpted, proportions and system transformation what makes each one of them unique so in this case if the valk has not been done I dont think this can call piracy or violation of the Copyright rights

[dodiano]

It is an endless debate in my opinion even a toy is based in a sketch to move of the 2d to the 3d object become in a original product because not exist in the physical plane until that is made

like all toys of the vf 1 all based in the same lineart however all are different an not only in scale we are talking sculpted, proportions and system transformation what makes each one of them unique so in this case if the valk has not been done I dont think this can call piracy or violation of the Copyright rights

Totally agree with you sir!

[Kurisama]

I think the regulars here know where I stand on this.

[SchizophrenicMC]

I think the regulars here know where I stand on this.

One hopes.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Here's a hypothetical question: would people be willing to accept unlicensed third party companies making high quality knock offs of official first party items that the original manufactures are no longer making? For instance, what if somebody started making exact replicas of the 1/48 VF-1, since we know Arcadia didn't even pick up the molds from Yamato and has no intention or revisiting that mold. Or, perhaps the VF-25 armor parts. as much as people wish they'd get a reissue, you know there's about a 90% certainty that bandai will never repop them, and the secondary market price is ridiculous right now.

Yes I would accept it. If something is no longer in production due to a busiess dying off then that means there is no harm done if someone else steps in to offer something that is no longer made anymore. You can only claim damage if the product existed for it to be copied and sales to hurt that company. If the company is dead, where is the harm?

For example you can't buy Bomberman as a game anymore since the company died. You can buy "Bombing Bastards!" an obvious clone of that game which basically copies it.

Nobody is going to complain that sales of their second hand copy of Bomberman are now going down on ebay because a clone is on the market.lol And the dead company is not going to care since the people who made it are not the holders of rights to thing that the company made. Fans of a particular thing just want the thing.

This is where indie game developers come in: you as creator have more control over IP because you own the creations and there is more creative freedom. Two examples I can think of are Mighty No.9 (from one of the creators of the Megaman games) and the upcoming "spiritual successor" to castlevania. (Castlevania being a property owned by Konami)

More info on that here:

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2014/09/rumour_pax_prime_flyer_teases_potential_2d_castlevania_successor

What you are seeing with toys is similar thing imo. Now remember these are japanese guys who once worked at japanese companies. Perhaps there is a future for macross-like toys products that look very similar to the macross universe stuff by the creators of the macross toys who decided to "go indie" like the Mighty No.9 guy who basically just made the game for fans of megaman that were annoyed that capcom no longer cares about that property anymore?

These are ways we fans can get what we want and at the same time it's a way for companies to look at the market and guage the results risk-free. They don't have to risk making stuff like Variable Glaug themselves. They can first let an indie guy do it, and then if they think they can compete, they release their own version which is better than the indie product, if they think that can profit now that it's "safe"/non-risky to make a Variable Glaug or VF-2SS or whatever rare mecha doesn't get enough love due to lack of recognition in the show or movie or ova.

Imagine for instance some original stuff like a transforming destroid? Looks like something out of the macross universe. but it combines some thing from mospeada and other less popular robot shows. But it fits in enough with macross that after the toy sells, the macross franchises starts to introduce stuff that is similar to the original designs of these fans? (technically we have transforming destroids like octos and konig monster, but I mean if they looked at what was popular with these original designs and then stole some things off the original designs, changed enough things to make it different and made them official?)

Edited September 5, 2014 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[aceoftherebellion]

I can't say I'd be terribly interested in 'macross like toys'. I'm invested in the universe as it is, not 'stuff that kind of resembles it'. Otherwise, things like Astroplan would have been a lot more appealing. Unless it's recognizably the design in question, and not 'a new take on it', I'm vastly less interested.

[xrentonx]

Astroplan was poorly executed and terrible...so there's that

[anime52k8]

I would have bought Astroplan toys if they weren't such low quality.

[evilcat005]

Just watched about 30 second of Astroplan after i saw some one mention it on this thread, and then i realize its one huge mistake on my part!

[chyll2]

I have no idea about why Astro plan is being discussed then I googled it. Man, I should have never done it in the first place.

There is this Astro Plan toy commercial that says beware of bootleg at the end :lol: :lol:

[Firefox]

As long as they produce Macross 2 series Valkyries, I'll support.

[dodiano]

Saw the Astroplan stuff.... Man No way!! I meant stuff like the Third party TF that are high quality not plastic crap toys!!

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

I can't say I'd be terribly interested in 'macross like toys'. I'm invested in the universe as it is, not 'stuff that kind of resembles it'. Otherwise, things like Astroplan would have been a lot more appealing. Unless it's recognizably the design in question, and not 'a new take on it', I'm vastly less interested.

People say that but look at request for macross II vf-2ss. Technically mac 2 is not canon so you could say its a macross-like show. Some official designs to me are a bit of a turn off and I wish were not canon. (booby and clown valks with faces and silly guitar controls)

Edited October 15, 2014 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[xrentonx]

Canon or not Mac2 has always been a Macross show though. There's nothing really Macross-like about it...it has the license. It has the name.

[treatment]

I'll be very intrigued if a 3P ever offers the Space Gandam...

[Kanedas Bike]

I'll be very intrigued if a 3P ever offers the Space Gandam...

Meh...just get Masterpiece Space Brick. Same difference.

-b.

[dec0y13]

Yes, this is an old thread, but I fully suppport 3rd party stuff

[Duymon]

Th Th Th TH Th Threadomancy~~~~

[Slave IV]

As I always say about Transformers, I have no loyalty to any company, I just buy the best toys that appeal to me and don't care about the brand on the box. That being said, I just mentioned in the other thread that came up that Transformers 3Ps are more expensive than official partially due to smaller production runs and Macross has a relatively smaller market and relatively higher quality demands, which equals higher prices. Basically, Arcadia. Would I mind more companies doing these things? Of course not! Competition leads to better products and lower prices for us!

Edited January 13, 2017 by Slave IV

[jvmacross]

Seems there has been plenty of news recently about third party "Macross" toys......you will just have to ignore the Robotech branding....