The Newbie and Short Questions thread

[kajnrig]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

What I've read on the subject is that the Delta in the title was based on the letter Delta being triangular. Apparently it represents, or is evocative of, the three main aspects of the franchise as a whole: songs, wars, and love triangles.

If that's the case, that's... well, exactly the kind of tenuous reasoning I'd expect from that show.

They could just as easily call Frontier, or 7, or etc., "Macross Delta." I'd even go so far as to say that the title better suits Macross Frontier than it does Macross Delta. Triangular imagery is prominent, the love triangle is a strong component, the show even features a song titled "Triangular," etc... If they had to go with Greek letters, they should have gone with "Macross Sigma Σ". The liberal use of W shapes, the forward-swept wings of the Siegfried making a W silhouette, the W hand sign, Walkure, etc.

[sketchley]

Isn't delta the 4th letter of the Greek alphabet?  And isn't Macross Delta the 4th Macross TV series? 🤔

[Seto Kaiba]

12 hours ago, kajnrig said:

If that's the case, that's... well, exactly the kind of tenuous reasoning I'd expect from that show.

It's the only reason I've seen in writing from an official source: https://macross.jp/news-detail/81/

Quote

First of all, regarding the meaning of Δ, Mr. Kawamori said, ``It seems that there are voices saying, ``Is it a love triangle again?'' about Δ. For me, every time I make a new work, I think I should leave out one of the songs, the battle, and the love triangle, but I can't seem to get it right (laughs). When you say "Macross", you need those three elements. So, this time Δ is something I dared to put in the title so that I myself would not forget that element. However, if we simply put in three elements, it would feel closed, so we left a gap in the logo. I want you to expand your imagination from there,” a meaningful comment.

 

12 hours ago, kajnrig said:

They could just as easily call Frontier, or 7, or etc., "Macross Delta." I'd even go so far as to say that the title better suits Macross Frontier than it does Macross Delta. Triangular imagery is prominent, the love triangle is a strong component, the show even features a song titled "Triangular," etc... If they had to go with Greek letters, they should have gone with "Macross Sigma Σ". The liberal use of W shapes, the forward-swept wings of the Siegfried making a W silhouette, the W hand sign, Walkure, etc.

The uppercase delta Δ is also used as a mathematical symbol for change, so that's something I guess?  It's also the only one of the lot that actually has a wing structure named for it... though Kawamori initially undermined it by giving the VF-31 Siegfrieds forward-swept winglets.

Uppercase sigma Σ wouldn't fit nearly as well, since that's a summation operator... if you were doing an anthology show, that might be a good one to use for its title.

W... well, there are other Greek letters that look more like a W including uppercase Psi and lowercase Omega.

[talonlm]

Alright, Seto, I have one that perhaps only you could answer, though I'll happily take what I can get for this.  I see a lot of comments to the effect of 'hold my beer' before someone tries something that usually turns out awesomely good, bad, stupid, ugly, funny or other (end results not being relevant to this question).  This, of course, got me to wondering:  What kind of beer do these folks drink?  Is there a Macross micro-brew?  Do the cultured Zentran or Meltran brew up a frothy keg or two?  And, if so (and most critically!) does someone make it IRL?

[Seto Kaiba]

7 hours ago, talonlm said:

Alright, Seto, I have one that perhaps only you could answer, though I'll happily take what I can get for this.  I see a lot of comments to the effect of 'hold my beer' before someone tries something that usually turns out awesomely good, bad, stupid, ugly, funny or other (end results not being relevant to this question).  This, of course, got me to wondering:  What kind of beer do these folks drink?  Is there a Macross micro-brew?  Do the cultured Zentran or Meltran brew up a frothy keg or two?  And, if so (and most critically!) does someone make it IRL?

If DYRL? is any indication... Budweiser.

(One of the gag missile shots in the movie depicts one of the missiles as a can of regular Budweiser. The other, if memory serves, is a canned cocktail.)

I honestly had to rack my brain for memories of characters consuming alcohol in this series, because I don't recall that many examples of it. Probably something to do with many of the protagonists being only 16 or 17 years old at the start of their respective shows. Aside from Ray Lovelock being shown with the occasional indistinct can, they seem to favor their beers on tap? When Kate and Myung go drinking in Macross Plus, they're served their beers in pint mugs rather than bottles or cans. The same is true in Macross 7 when Mylene pretends to be Max's mistress to troll him. He orders a non-alcoholic beer and it's served to him in a tulip glass. I am not a beer drinker myself, so I referred the question to a friend who is an experienced brewer and he suggested that whatever it is is probably an aromatic beer like a double IPA, Belgian ale, or barley wine based on the particular choice of glass and the assumption that the bartender at that fancy bar knows his business.

I'd presume that whatever it is is probably brewed locally in any given emigrant fleet's environment ships. If Macross Frontier-era materials are any guide, beer is probably a foodstuff subject to the divide between cheap and easily produced synthetic foods and more expensive and resource intensive natural foods. It's kind of frightening to think of someone selling beer made from industrial alcohol and artificial flavors, since real beer would be rather resource-intensive to make for a fleet with very limited agricultural space.

Considering that the Zentradi had alcohol rations even before being exposed to Earth's culture, and the number of them developed substance abuse problems after defecting and living among humans for years, I'd assume it's probably safe to say that there are Zentradi in the liquor industry the same as there are in every other industry.

As to your last part, I have absolutely no idea. If such a thing exists, it would probably be a menu item at FirebomBAR, which I have never been to.

If they ever do a Macross signature beer - if they haven't already - I hope its quality is better than the desperately tragic wine collection that Star Trek rolled out for Star Trek Picard.

[talonlm]

I think there was one with Moruk and Quamzin drink wine after they kidnapped what's-her-nugget in TOS.  I was unaware of the alcohol ration for the Zentradi; that would seem counter-productive, given the troubles the misuse of alcohol causes in the military in real life.  I figured Moruk or Quamzin just pillaged a winery and took entire barrels.  The issued stuff would have to be an interesting brew.

 

[kajnrig]

A couple quick questions:

1) I just started snapping together a Bandai 1/72 VF-25S for the first time and was caught off-guard by the fact the head transforms. Basically the lower half of the head slides up into the "helmet" to get more compact. Is this accurate to "canon"? I'm leaning toward it just being a feature for the sake of the model kit, and isn't present anywhere else, either in-show or the toys or other merch or artwork, etc.

2) Have there been any 4K transfers of anything Macross? And which ones include English subs? I'm looking at an auction for a special edition Bluray "Hybrid Pack" of Sayonara no Tsubasa and am wondering if I should bite on it or not, or if there are better options out there currently. (I know there's the English Bluray box sets announced, but that's all they've been is announced.)

[Seto Kaiba]

18 minutes ago, kajnrig said:

A couple quick questions:

1) I just started snapping together a Bandai 1/72 VF-25S for the first time and was caught off-guard by the fact the head transforms. Basically the lower half of the head slides up into the "helmet" to get more compact. Is this accurate to "canon"? I'm leaning toward it just being a feature for the sake of the model kit, and isn't present anywhere else, either in-show or the toys or other merch or artwork, etc.

I'm relatively certain that's just a convenience for the kit.

 

18 minutes ago, kajnrig said:

2) Have there been any 4K transfers of anything Macross? And which ones include English subs? I'm looking at an auction for a special edition Bluray "Hybrid Pack" of Sayonara no Tsubasa and am wondering if I should bite on it or not, or if there are better options out there currently. (I know there's the English Bluray box sets announced, but that's all they've been is announced.)

Not that I'm aware?  I think it's all standard HD (1080p) so far.

[George Yamamori]

Can the head lasers aim forward in the fighter modes of the VF-5000/11/19/22/25/31.

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, George Yamamori said:

Can the head lasers aim forward in the fighter modes of the VF-5000/11/19/22/25/31.

No, it can't aim forward on those models.

It's specifically a rear facing weapon meant to cover the fighter's blind spot. Many of them, especially the later models like the 19, 22, 25, and 31 have a fixed forward-facing gun or pair of guns that do the same job.

[Keith]

Just rewatched through Macross Plus Movie Ed, the Frontier movies, and the Delta movies again, and saw this in "Sayonara no Tsubasa" 

And immidiately thought

Imagining a " Sally Simpson" scenario.

Edited September 5 by Keith
Drunk spelling...

[DownIsUp]

Are there listed maximum engagement ranges for the Monster and Defender? I know for Valks generally aim for BVR with the use of ghosts and the like, but I can't remember seeing any stats for the Destroids.

[Seto Kaiba]

30 minutes ago, DownIsUp said:

Are there listed maximum engagement ranges for the Monster and Defender?

Only for the HWR-00 Monster, as it's the only one of the original Destroids that's truly configured for long-ranged engagements (excl. the non-canonical LDR-04 Maverick from the FamilySoft Macross games).

The Monster's 40cm cannons are able to bombard targets up to 160km away in indirect fire under gravity.  Its ground-to-ground missile launchers have a 300km+ range.

 

 

30 minutes ago, DownIsUp said:

I know for Valks generally aim for BVR with the use of ghosts and the like, but I can't remember seeing any stats for the Destroids.

For the most part, Valkyries are also set up for visual-ranged combat or very close to it because the Zentradi come in numbers far too great to rely mainly on beyond-visual-range engagement and a combination of passive and active stealth measures has reduced the effectiveness of long-ranged missiles.

[DownIsUp]

14 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

The Monster's 40cm cannons are able to bombard targets up to 160km away in indirect fire under gravity.  Its ground-to-ground missile launchers have a 300km+ range.

This is maybe the best thing I've ever read in my life, thanks for that. I guess it makes sense how they stuck around long enough to see upgrades and use by Anti-UN forces all the way in 2030.

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, DownIsUp said:

This is maybe the best thing I've ever read in my life, thanks for that. I guess it makes sense how they stuck around long enough to see upgrades and use by Anti-UN forces all the way in 2030.

They were basically useless on the ground, since the Zentradi didn't do ground warfare, but they found some utility as a long-ranged anti-capital ship turret able to deliver low yield thermonuclear reaction warheads.

[JB0]

14 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

They were basically useless on the ground, since the Zentradi didn't do ground warfare, but they found some utility as a long-ranged anti-capital ship turret able to deliver low yield thermonuclear reaction warheads.

I'm guessing they win out over missiles because the lack of a rocket engine makes them harder to detect and counter while in-flight. Hence the continued service of the Metal Gear Monster.

Edited 16 hours ago by JB0

[TG Remix]

So I remembered how when the Protoculture was first making what become the Protodevlin, they were in the form of the Evil-Series of Zentradi. I think what we know of the prototypes is that before the ones we see in 7 proper got the ability to harness extra-dimension energy in their bodies, they either burn themselves out or self-destructed. Do we have any elaboration on them in general? Such as how different/similar they looked from the show's Protodevlin, if the ones who survived became the actual Protodevlin or sealed up somewhere different from the ice planet, and so on. It became a topic of interest for a bit because there was a theory that was around when Delta was being aired that Mikumo was a "Evil-series Zentradi" that was discovered before her actual backstory was revealed.

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, TG Remix said:

So I remembered how when the Protoculture was first making what become the Protodevlin, they were in the form of the Evil-Series of Zentradi. I think what we know of the prototypes is that before the ones we see in 7 proper got the ability to harness extra-dimension energy in their bodies, they either burn themselves out or self-destructed. Do we have any elaboration on them in general? Such as how different/similar they looked from the show's Protodevlin, if the ones who survived became the actual Protodevlin or sealed up somewhere different from the ice planet, and so on.

So... that's not quite accurate.

Development of the Evil-series started in 2865 PC (c. 497,135 BCE), but because they were unable to resolve the problem of the incredible energy demands that the biotechnology used in the designs called for they were never able to complete them.  Three years later, the Protoculture developed the first prototype super dimension energy converter and they began considering the technology's potential to address the excessive energy requirements of the Evil series.  Three years after that, in 2871 PC, the Protoculture completed their first seven Evil-series prototypes (one of each type/class) using the new biotechnological super dimension energy converters and the first practical tests resulted in disaster with the seven prototypes being possessed by energy beings from super dimension space that ultimately became known as the Protodeviln.

The seven Protodeviln seen in Macross 7 are the seven original Evil-series prototypes and, as far as we know, there were no others constructed.*

 

1 hour ago, TG Remix said:

It became a topic of interest for a bit because there was a theory that was around when Delta was being aired that Mikumo was a "Evil-series Zentradi" that was discovered before her actual backstory was revealed.

I have no idea why this fan theory comes back SO MUCH.

This happened with Frontier too.  For some reason, there's this part of the fandom that assumes that any remotely unconventional-looking character who isn't explicitly identified as a Zentradi or whatever is a Protodeviln.  When Frontier was airing, people were assuming that Macross Quarter bridge operator Mina Roshan was a Protodeviln because her design had dark skin, dark eyes, and a red mark on her forehead.  The actual explanation... she's just Indian.  But they were CONVINCED she was a Protodeviln.  

It's like fans can't remember that there were only ever seven Evil-series, that four of them died in Macross 7, and the other three ****ed off to parts unknown at the end of the series.

 

* Not by the Protoculture, anyway.  The non-canon manga Macross Dynamite 7: Mylene Beat has a faction within the Macross 7 fleet's New UN Forces attempt to clone an Evil-series with an eye towards mass producing an Evil-series weapon for Humanity's defense.  The prototype predictably goes out of control and becomes a battleship-sized space dragon, but thanks to Mylene's intervention its rampage proves to be short-lived and after gaining the ability to generate its own spiritia is promptly disappears into the deepest reaches of space the same way the Protodeviln did.  The Fold Evil in Macross 30: Voices Across the Galaxy and the Birdhuman in Macross Zero are some kind of related development, but with a perfected version of the super dimension energy converter technology that doesn't result in a living weapon possessed by a starving energy vampire.

[pengbuzz]

14 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

So... that's not quite accurate.

Development of the Evil-series started in 2865 PC (c. 497,135 BCE), but because they were unable to resolve the problem of the incredible energy demands that the biotechnology used in the designs called for they were never able to complete them.  Three years later, the Protoculture developed the first prototype super dimension energy converter and they began considering the technology's potential to address the excessive energy requirements of the Evil series.  Three years after that, in 2871 PC, the Protoculture completed their first seven Evil-series prototypes (one of each type/class) using the new biotechnological super dimension energy converters and the first practical tests resulted in disaster with the seven prototypes being possessed by energy beings from super dimension space that ultimately became known as the Protodeviln.

The seven Protodeviln seen in Macross 7 are the seven original Evil-series prototypes and, as far as we know, there were no others constructed.*

 

I have no idea why this fan theory comes back SO MUCH.

This happened with Frontier too.  For some reason, there's this part of the fandom that assumes that any remotely unconventional-looking character who isn't explicitly identified as a Zentradi or whatever is a Protodeviln.  When Frontier was airing, people were assuming that Macross Quarter bridge operator Mina Roshan was a Protodeviln because her design had dark skin, dark eyes, and a red mark on her forehead.  The actual explanation... she's just Indian.  But they were CONVINCED she was a Protodeviln.  

It's like fans can't remember that there were only ever seven Evil-series, that four of them died in Macross 7, and the other three ****ed off to parts unknown at the end of the series.

 

* Not by the Protoculture, anyway.  The non-canon manga Macross Dynamite 7: Mylene Beat has a faction within the Macross 7 fleet's New UN Forces attempt to clone an Evil-series with an eye towards mass producing an Evil-series weapon for Humanity's defense.  The prototype predictably goes out of control and becomes a battleship-sized space dragon, but thanks to Mylene's intervention its rampage proves to be short-lived and after gaining the ability to generate its own spiritia is promptly disappears into the deepest reaches of space the same way the Protodeviln did.  The Fold Evil in Macross 30: Voices Across the Galaxy and the Birdhuman in Macross Zero are some kind of related development, but with a perfected version of the super dimension energy converter technology that doesn't result in a living weapon possessed by a starving energy vampire.

Rumor has it that:

Spoiler

Kawamori-san is a Protodeviln and created Macross so he could harvest the Spiritua of all the fans enjoying the idols singing and the intense mecha combat.

 

*Yes, I need to get out more often*

 

[JB0]

5 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

It's like fans can't remember that there were only ever seven Evil-series, that four of them died in Macross 7, and the other three ****ed off to parts unknown at the end of the series.

That's just what a protodeviln trying to avoid detetction on a message board would say!