What do you think is the most innovative VF design?

[Uxi]

YF-21

[peter]

Most Innovative VF Design......so the one that's got the most new and different design traits. Well, if you're talking VFs in general, and factoring in timelines in the Macross universe, wouldn't it be the VF-0? The first variable fighter, with battroid and gerwalk capabilities? Before that, it was the F-14D right? All other VFs after that are pretty much the same thing with fancier packages.

Now if it's just among VFs, then you'll have to find the one that's most radically different from the first VF (still the VF-0) and that's a hard one for me because I don't know any of the stats. I figure it's gotta be the newest design from MF right?

Neither are my favourites, haha, so I voted for the VF-1.

[anime52k8]

I'm changing my vote. The Most innovative VF is the VF-11MAXL custom, because it's the first VF with boobs.

Edited November 9, 2010 by anime52k8

[Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX]

I'm changing my vote. The Most innovative VF is the VF-11MAXL custom, because it's the first VF with boobs.

ah, robo boobs...my kind of implants!

[peter]

ah, robo boobs...my kind of implants!

My personal favourite for robot boobs is still Seven of Nine.....what a beautiful set of mammaries..

[s001]

I love the SV-51. Its the only one of my toys i have permanently positioned in gerwalk mode, it just looks so aggressive and birdlike.

Yeah the SV-51 have the best and the meanest looking gerwalk. But the other 2 modes suck.

[Nicaragua]

Yeah the SV-51 have the best and the meanest looking gerwalk. But the other 2 modes suck.

I think the fighter mode is pretty amazing, again it just looks like a killing machine.

[anime52k8]

I think the fighter mode is pretty amazing, again it just looks like a killing machine.

it looks like something stepped on it.

[Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX]

I think the fighter mode is pretty amazing, again it just looks like a killing machine.

I am in your camp.

Admittedly, when I first saw Zero I hated it but seeing the yamato model in the various modes and then watching transformation videos gave me a new appreciation for this VF, now it is one of my favorite designs in all modes.

[twich]

I agree that when I look at the SV-51 Design, even the Mass Production Model, I get this sense of menace and sheer Danger. The Gunpod is practical and has a realistic storage method while in GERWALK and Battroid. If I could have one wish, I would wish that Yamato or Bandai would re-release(release in Bandai case) this toy with the style and lines of the Yamato model, but the ruggedness of a Bandai ala the VF-25 DX series. I Love My SV-51a from Yamato, but I do not like the fact that it is sooo floppy and the fact that the Tail Fins/Arm Shields do not stay in place no matter what I do to them. I saw some Fanart of the SV-51 recently and it is amazing how much the profile of the SV-51 reminds me of the YF-21.

Twich

[ruskiiVFaussie]

duh, the 21. SO many things going for this valk, do i really need to list them.

Edited November 12, 2010 by ruskiiVFaussie

[valkyriechild]

I guess the year 2008 and 2040 is kind of eras with many innovations through sv-51/vf-0 and yf-21/19, and both was probably one of the rarest occasion where early development of new technologies were actually being deployed in real combat to soon, but works well.

[Protoculture]

I personal voted for YF-19 / VF-19.

Given that Basara actually flew two custom variants of said Valks says something about the model.

[Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX]

Given that Basara actually flew two custom variants of said Valks says something about the model.

Reason for me to minus a vote!

[Nicaragua]

I personal voted for YF-19 / VF-19.

Given that Basara actually flew two custom variants of said Valks says something about the model.

Not sure what that means, its not like basara built it or anything. he was just given them and im sure he would have flown any other model if thats what he was given.

Anyway Basara is a tool so him flying the YF-19 knocks it down a few pegs in my opinion.

[Mr March]

Well, technically Basara never flew a YF-19. He flew the VF-19 Excalibur Custom and the VF-19P Excalibur, so the YF-19/VF-19A/F/S remain untainted

[Product9]

I was uncool and chose the VF-27.

Now for my argument:

The VF-27 shows major innovation and maturation of Valkyrie design. It pretty much has everything built right in - no need for additional packs or equipment. I have heard it said that this is a drawback for the -27's design, but that doesn't make any sense to me. What does it need? It is said to be comparable to the Super VF-25 already. However, until the advent of the Tornado pack the -25 had neither bells nor whistles to assist it in atmo. Like... where are the missiles? The VF-27 has plenty.

Presumable, the beam weaponry on the -27 has greater endurance than the solid shell based weapons of other Valkyries. The -27's armament is versatile, powerful, and has (I think) good endurance. This makes it capable of performing more missions on its own with less support.

As for accommodation, it has EX gear AND the virtual cockpit with feedback to the pilot greatly increasing maneuvering ability and efficiency. Now, it has been said this this is more a feature of the cyborg pilot, but I would argue that the pilot is a feature of the aircraft. The cyborg pilot is integral to the VF-27's basic operation. I know there are variants that can be flown by anyone, but the thing was built with cyborgs in mind. Given that having implants is common on Galaxy, this isn't a disadvantage at all. The pilot's greater physical endurance, remote operation capability (as seen in ep 21 of Frontier IIRC) and the feedback make this one mean machine.

In contrast to the YF-21, the VF-27 has a reliable control system. I don't consider the -21 particularly novel because it was basically a failure. It required far too much mental discipline for just anyone to fly. And what happened when the pilot became emotionally unstable? Right... it fell right out of the sky. Then it drove a VF-11 into the ground because the operator thought it would be funny. That plane was way to eager to please and that's why it ended up getting dumped.

If anything, the VF-27 is too powerful for regular usage. It would make for a fine special operations aircraft, though. Something where unconventional warfare is prevalent. Kind of like the scenarios seen by most mecha anime protagonists.

[Mog]

Surprised no one touched upon this yet concerning the YF-21.

But I find it pretty "innovative" that they were able to take the best features of the VF-1 Valkyrie and the Q-Rau and blend them together to come up with a beautiful, separately distinct design.

Seriously, someone looked at the big, burly form of the Q-Rau (with its spindly legs, the cannons on its arms, and those huge hulking backpack thrusters) and figured out a way to get that general battroid form to fit into the sleek, "skinny-bitch" fighter profile of the YF-21.

That perfect mixing human and Zent design traditions?

THAT'S what I consider innovative.

[Valkyrie Driver]

I had to say the VF-17. I love the VF-11 to death, but the VF-17 was just sweet. It has enough weapons to make me happy (I grew up on MechWarrior), and it just looks BA. Maneuverable, fast, heavily armed, and tough. Also the VF-17 did a lot less blowing up in M7 than the VF-11 (Sorry Thud).

I love my Thud, but it had drawbacks. Lack of internal missile launchers, which seemed to be integrated on every VF since the VF-5000. The Lack of Available Missile armaments on the fighter itself (not the super packs) is disturbing, especially given their prevalence in air combat both in the real world and in Macross. Internal leg bays which are shown in M7, but never intended by Kawamori-san (Macross Mecha Manual, VF-11C Super Thunderbolt entry). The VF-11 is typical of VF designs up to that point.

Just as the F-117 Nighthawk was a departure from the traditional aircraft with it's stealth designed airframe, so is the VF-17. It integrates similar stealth characteristics, albeit with a sleek F-22/35 style to it. The Compact nature of the fighter also draws me to it, I don't like big fighters, so I guess I'm a bit prejudiced against the Y/VF-19/21/22. Still the VF-17 has the gunpod, and the beam cannon adapter. It has heavy firepower, and internal missile launchers in the shoulders. It also maintained a clean battroid mode like thoke that came before.

Edited November 26, 2010 by Valkyrie Driver

[Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX]

The Compact nature of the fighter also draws me to it, I don't like big fighters, so I guess I'm a bit prejudiced against the Y/VF-19/21/22.

Is the plane mode of the VF-17 really that small?

It is longer then the thunderbolt and had a larger wingspan. YF-21/19 are longer, but the 17 has a larger wing span then the 19. Smaller I guess, but not really VF-1 compact though

[Valkyrie Driver]

Is the plane mode of the VF-17 really that small?

It is longer then the thunderbolt and had a larger wingspan. YF-21/19 are longer, but the 17 has a larger wing span then the 19. Smaller I guess, but not really VF-1 compact though

According to Macross Mecha Manual it's only .1 meter longer and wingspan about 3m more than the VF-11C. True on the compactness of the VF-1. Compared to the gen 4+ VFs, the VF-1 Just lacked so much lifting surface, it makes me sad. Still the VF-11 is around the same size as the VF-1, and so is the VF-17. (Kinda like the F-16 and F/A-18 are kinda the same size, key words kinda...) Comparing the

[e_jacob77]

HI all,

Also choose the YF-19.. Call me crazy but I think the already inherent instability with FSW's would make for one amazing ride.. However, I think that 2D vector isn't all its cracked uped to be! Sure the F-22 would fly circles around most other aircraft.... 3D vector is the future! Imagine the 19 with 3D vector, without changing anything else.. Feet like the SV-51/VF-27.... Now That would woop some A$$!!

[Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX]

HI all,

Also choose the YF-19.. Call me crazy but I think the already inherent instability with FSW's would make for one amazing ride.. However, I think that 2D vector isn't all its cracked uped to be! Sure the F-22 would fly circles around most other aircraft.... 3D vector is the future! Imagine the 19 with 3D vector, without changing anything else.. Feet like the SV-51/VF-27.... Now That would woop some A$$!!

I am sure the YF-19 has some lateral and twist.

[valkyriechild]

Does thrust vector can actually help a VF turning around in space? i played a macross PS2 game and when in space the VF-1 is using thrusters on the tip of each wing to do a roll besides using the vector thrust itself.

So i think the vector thrust is not really effective in space without the help of thrusters on the nose maybe? to turn the VF up/down and yaw left/right. CMIIW

Edited November 28, 2010 by valkyriechild

[frothymug]

The thrust vectoring on the VF-1 is for pitch only (not yaw), since it's not three-dimensional vectoring. It does help tremendously, and it's even a common technique to switch to GERWALK for even better thrust vectoring (except it only works in one direction in the GERWALK case).

What VFs have three dimensional vectoring? VF-22 and VF-27? Am I missing any? SV-51, perhaps?

[Valkyrie Driver]

The thrust vectoring on the VF-1 is for pitch only (not yaw), since it's not three-dimensional vectoring. It does help tremendously, and it's even a common technique to switch to GERWALK for even better thrust vectoring (except it only works in one direction in the GERWALK case).

What VFs have three dimensional vectoring? VF-22 and VF-27? Am I missing any? SV-51, perhaps?

I think we left out asynchronous vectoring, Using the F-22 as a real world example, each eyelid(the tailpipe thingy) can move independently of the other, allowing for pitch and roll control, the F-22 also has yaw control but it does it differently than the VF-22/27 and SV-51. Those VF's use eyelids like on the X-31 test aircraft. The VF-17 only has yaw control for the thrust vectoring, unless I've completely missed something, the only drawback to my choice of the VF-17.

[ATLMYK]

Metal Siren

Edited December 1, 2010 by ATLMYK

[Product9]

I think we left out asynchronous vectoring, Using the F-22 as a real world example, each eyelid(the tailpipe thingy) can move independently of the other, allowing for pitch and roll control, the F-22 also has yaw control but it does it differently than the VF-22/27 and SV-51. Those VF's use eyelids like on the X-31 test aircraft. The VF-17 only has yaw control for the thrust vectoring, unless I've completely missed something, the only drawback to my choice of the VF-17.

The F-22 only uses thrust vectoring for pitch control as the nozzles cannot vector independantly of one another. Some yaw control in the post-stall environment is accomplished by varying the engine thrust on an independant basis.

From what I've seen the VF-1 can vector its nozzles/feet independantly. This would allow it to do both pitch and roll, but not yaw. Given that the engines are fairly widely spaced, yaw could be generated by varying the engine thrust with more efficiency that say the F-22. However, I'm sure they use vernier thrusters to accomlish yaw in space.

I think a video game is a poor representation of the physics of spaceflight. Unless they make DCS: VF-1J Valkyrie.

Though I still pick the VF-27, the YF-21 did have an interesting feature I forgot to mention - it can still be a fighter without its arms or legs. That's pretty damn innovative.

[Ghost Train]

VF-11, it reproduces like rabbits and returns 5 minutes after its demise.... to be destroyed again.

[Sir Galahad®]

I was uncool and chose the VF-27.

Now for my argument:

The VF-27 shows major innovation and maturation of Valkyrie design. It pretty much has everything built right in - no need for additional packs or equipment. I have heard it said that this is a drawback for the -27's design, but that doesn't make any sense to me. What does it need? It is said to be comparable to the Super VF-25 already. However, until the advent of the Tornado pack the -25 had neither bells nor whistles to assist it in atmo. Like... where are the missiles? The VF-27 has plenty.

Presumable, the beam weaponry on the -27 has greater endurance than the solid shell based weapons of other Valkyries. The -27's armament is versatile, powerful, and has (I think) good endurance. This makes it capable of performing more missions on its own with less support.

As for accommodation, it has EX gear AND the virtual cockpit with feedback to the pilot greatly increasing maneuvering ability and efficiency. Now, it has been said this this is more a feature of the cyborg pilot, but I would argue that the pilot is a feature of the aircraft. The cyborg pilot is integral to the VF-27's basic operation. I know there are variants that can be flown by anyone, but the thing was built with cyborgs in mind. Given that having implants is common on Galaxy, this isn't a disadvantage at all. The pilot's greater physical endurance, remote operation capability (as seen in ep 21 of Frontier IIRC) and the feedback make this one mean machine.

In contrast to the YF-21, the VF-27 has a reliable control system. I don't consider the -21 particularly novel because it was basically a failure. It required far too much mental discipline for just anyone to fly. And what happened when the pilot became emotionally unstable? Right... it fell right out of the sky. Then it drove a VF-11 into the ground because the operator thought it would be funny. That plane was way to eager to please and that's why it ended up getting dumped.

If anything, the VF-27 is too powerful for regular usage. It would make for a fine special operations aircraft, though. Something where unconventional warfare is prevalent. Kind of like the scenarios seen by most mecha anime protagonists.

If you could make the vf-27 into the "hero" mecha, the pilot should be a cyborg. Maybe there would be a story that would make an ace pilot critically injured in a fight, then converted into a cyborg.

I do like the modularity of the VF-25, even the armored pack makes it awesome. But it did lack some of the features that other hero valks had then: Internal Missile Bays. If the super pack or armored pack are destroyed, only has the head turret laser and his Gunpod to fight with.

I think in MF, the VF-19 and the VF-22 can still keep up with the VF-25 (at least against the VF-171EX)

[frothymug]

I have been considering writing a fanfic about a blind person who aspires to be a pilot. He or she would have to use a BDI-enabled system to achieve their goal, in that scenario. The YF-21 brought forth several interesting technologies to the playing field, which earns my vote as the most innovative.

edit: I said "BDS" instead of "BDI"...

Edited December 6, 2010 by frothymug

[Andy NYK]

i vote vf-25(s) for the triple changing armoured packs, instead of the previous battroid-only armours of vf-0(s), vf-1(j) and vf-11©.

[Shaorin]

VF-1 series here.

it's design is classic and elegant in the extreme.

no other transforming fighter aircraft to date has ever felt more "Realistic" to me

then the venerable VF-1.

a completely unsurpassed design, IMHO...

[LOW_ALT]

I am tempted to pick the VF-1 because it was essentially the first VF and everything that came after was an evolution of it; however, I chose the YF-21 because it is so different from any other VF IMO.

1)Brain controlled

2)Changeable wing surface

3)Thrusters not in legs (I feel like this would increase the speed and performance in GERWALK/Battroid modes)

4)Dual gun pods

6 Fixed cannons mounted on bilateral arms

7)Ejectable limbs for faster top speed.

I'm a huge YF-21/VF-22 fan but there are a few major flaws with it's design. It's "limiter-off" mode makes no sense. I can see possibly a huge weight savings but it's so non-aerodynamic in this mode that it would create a huge amount of drag, so where is the benefit? Could it be in space where aerodynamics don't matter? Well then the weight savings go out the window too. Now the fact that the thrusters are separate from the rest of the leg is pretty huge though since it can have immense forward thrust in gerwalk mode. Another thing is that this isn't the only valk that can change it's wings according to the maneuver. The SV-51 can be seen in Zero doing the same "high-speed" mode as the 21/22 with the wings dipped down. Plus the 21/22 can't be stored in a submarine! But all in all if you think about it the SV-51 was supposedly the first variable fighter ever made, it was even put into service before the VF-0's. That would certainly make it the most innovative aircraft of it's time by shattering the mold. I personally would have really liked to see a sort of Macross 0.5 where we could see what else the Anti-UN had up their sleeves and perhaps a space-going evolution of the massive SV-51. *sigh* I'll keep day dreaming...

[eugimon]

Weight is still a factor in space. There may not be gravity but there's still inertia.