What Would Have To Happen...

[VFTF1]

I've decided to open this thread here rather than in the toys or TV thread because "interest in Macross" is a very broad category encompassing but not exclussive to toys, models, tv, ovas, film, manga - and I want people to respond with reference to everything and anything about Macross that they enjoy. So - I don't want this thread to just be limited to, say, TV show enthusiasts, or toy collectors or modelers.

The reason I opened the thread was because I think it's an interesting question - how long can a franchise hold your interest? There have been franchises out there - Star Wars, Spider Man (just to name two) which have grown into such cult classics that it is almost inconcievable that they can die off.

There are, however, other franchises which, in my opinion, are shedding relevence (surprisingly I would say Transformers) for a variety of reasons.

Just to be clear OF COURSE I LOVE MACROSS. The thread is not meant to incite any type of antipathy for Macross, nor am I opening it because I think that Macross will necessarily "die out" eventually, nor do I hope for that to happen. I am, however, curious - what would have to happen for you to loose interest? What pitfalls do you fear taking place that would make you feel that Macross is going down the drain?

To give an example - I used to be a BIG TIME Transformers collector and fan. I still am - but I am a fan "stuck" in the G1 through Beast Wars era. The 80s and the 90s were basically my golden time for Transformers. The first chink in my fanboyism came with the Dreamwave G1 comics, which were aweful (art and story wise) - but then again Dreamwave also brought on Simon Furman and produced Warwithin which was a saving grace. But I guess what really did me in was the horrible Unicron Trilogy - year and gutt pounding year of drivel (from my point of view). I understand that some kids - not my generation - can now say they grew up on this stuff - but it's just not my stuff. Probably the biggest sticking point that did me in was the tendency to completely revamp and reboot the series year after year - no continuity - just a general archetype for plot and characters which kept getting repackaged into new series. I will always be a fan of the original Marvel comics and the G1 cartoon. I enjoy the live action movie, but no longer enjoy the toys really and in my old age (30), I've found that my greatest pleasure comes from Encore, TFC - basically just the bare bones roots from my childhood - as well as BW II and Neo.

As for Macross -

One of the biggest saving graces of the Macross universe is the continuity between series and movies. Even if it's sometimes kind of contrived (oh, DYRL is a documentary within the SDFM TV universe or "DYRL is the way they look/SDFM TV is what actually happened), and even though some elements of that plot have been better and others poorer - it really does warm my heart that the story has a wholistic sense to it.

So - first thing that would begin the process of turning me away from Macross is if we ever got a Macross REBOOT.

I would hate that. I would be sadened. I would really be unhappy. If anything, consecutive Macross series have shown that this is a story that can introduce fresh concepts and ideas without retconing and negating the past achievements before it.

So - Warning Sign Number 1: Macross Reboot/"fresh start" series or OVA which just discards what came before.

What else?

Well - ok - sorry to say this (and not meaning to spark a debate on this subject but it did influence me a little...I know it's a discussion meant for toys but...) :

Bandai producing Macross Frontier DXs.

Now - I am holding out hope that the Armored Ozma will somehow be better than the first edition, and I do admit that Michael and Luca look better than I thought - but still - overall - compared to Yamato - I'm just dissapointed. Yeah, the 1/72s are the saving graces, but nothing beats a good chogokin. And since collecting figures and toys is so important to me - it is a big turn down that my favorite Macross Frontier stuff is...not desirable to me. This doesn't mean I'm "quiting Macross" or "turning my back" - but it certainly is a factor in my enthusiasm for Frontier kind of waning. Yamato coming out with the v.2 1/60s has just made me sorry they didn't get the license for the 25s...and in future - if Macross continues to be produced by Bandai, I fear that this might adversely affect the franchise because - ok - fine - ONE series of 25s and 27s from MF by Bandai won't kill things...but if the future of Macross toys is going to look like the DX and Yamato is just going to be improving the VF-1 for the rest of eternity - then this might have some negative consequences.

What else?

Off the top of my head - those are the two big things that might eventually make me shrug my shoulders at future Macross endeavors.

What about you guys? What are your fears? What do you think needs to be avoided?

Pete

[Seto Kaiba]

Personally, since my favorite part of the Macross universe has remained unchanged by even the slightest retcon or rewrite over the last fifteen years, it'd take an awful lot to chase me away from the franchise for good...

Something atrocious like trying to shoehorn Macross II back into the main timeline, or remaking it with Kawamori mecha.

Or, god forbid, another exercise in pants-on-head retarded storytelling like Macross 7... I still haven't been able to ascertain which is worse... Gundam ZZ or Macross 7... but neither one completely succeeded in chasing me away from its respective franchise... it just made me all the more eager to get past them to something that might actually be good again. I can't comprehend what motivates the Bizarro people who actually found those two shows entertaining.

Edited April 6, 2009 by Seto Kaiba

[myk]

In regards to a possible reboot or taking a different direction with a story, it's all about what the individual fan thinks about the franchise; if you're heart's still in it the story could be turned completely upside down and you'd still follow it to the end of the earth.

There are countless reasons why anyone of us would lose interest in any franchise. Personally speaking, I lost interest in anime and toys because I decided it was lame and I just outgrew it; it wasn't about anything anime or toy companies "did wrong" to turn me off to watching, collecting or otherwise spend money on it.

Good luck on whatever you decide...

[Sergorn]

In a word ?

It they'd somehow do "Makuroso : Ankoku Chronicles"

Joke aside I'd probably be warry of any Macross series without Kawamori involvement, but I'd still be interested none the less. I doubt aything could kill all interest I have in Macross.

-Sergorn

[Ghost Train]

Peace treaty with Harmony Gold that results in canonizing all their crap.

[Bri]

Wont happen really, I have seen SDFM twice a year since 1987 and I doubt that will change anytime soon.

Still the one thing I can imagine:

Warners RT movie becomes a big succes. They buy everything Macross and under supervision from Macek incorporate everything in to the RT universe. Then yea, that would kill it for me.

[eriku]

Michael Bay making a Macross movie would almost take me there. But only almost. Using Transformers as an example, even though I have zero appreciation for the Bay universe and designs it doesn't kill my love for what existed before that, the alternatives that exist now, and whatever else may come in the future. I guess I'm just not that fickle with stuff that I love.

[miriya]

Well I was obsessed with Robotech when I used to watch it in 1985 then after a couple of years it kind of went to the back burner for a while until in 1998-ish I saw DYRL for the first time which re-sparked the obsession and I started collecting Macross toys. There was a spell in 2004 when I thought I was over it and sold my entire toy and comic book collection for next to nothing. But not long after that I was lurking the web and got a full on obession back again in 2006. For me I am thinking this is a bit of a lifetime interest.

eriku's point about a Michael Bay movie is a good one. If a really bad Macross movie was made then I may be a bit embarrassed to be a macross fan. But when Bjork wore the swan dress, it was embarassing for everyone but I am still a hardcore Bjork fan.

[SchizophrenicMC]

If Breetai got Rick Hunter, yet.

[thegunny]

Joke aside I'd probably be warry of any Macross series without Kawamori involvement, but I'd still be interested none the less. I doubt aything could kill all interest I have in Macross.

-Sergorn

I'd be all over a Macross series without Kawamori involvement

A change is as good as a holiday.

[505thAirborne]

It would take a lot for me to loose interest in MACROSS, Been a loyal fan since 1984 and its been a fantastic adventure so far!! Some of the series are better than others. Macross 7 not being my favorite, but good none the less.

If SK were not involved in another series, I wouldn't be hurt. He is a master of design and articulation. But I would rather see someone else take over as director & writer.

As long as a Japanese version of Michael Bay or the people who believed in a Chevy Chase talk show don't ever get involved, Macross has many stories & Adventures left to it!!!

[nugundamII]

I've decided to open this thread here rather than in the toys or TV thread because "interest in Macross" is a very broad category encompassing but not exclussive to toys, models, tv, ovas, film, manga - and I want people to respond with reference to everything and anything about Macross that they enjoy. So - I don't want this thread to just be limited to, say, TV show enthusiasts, or toy collectors or modelers.

The reason I opened the thread was because I think it's an interesting question - how long can a franchise hold your interest? There have been franchises out there - Star Wars, Spider Man (just to name two) which have grown into such cult classics that it is almost inconcievable that they can die off.

There are, however, other franchises which, in my opinion, are shedding relevence (surprisingly I would say Transformers) for a variety of reasons.

Just to be clear OF COURSE I LOVE MACROSS. The thread is not meant to incite any type of antipathy for Macross, nor am I opening it because I think that Macross will necessarily "die out" eventually, nor do I hope for that to happen. I am, however, curious - what would have to happen for you to loose interest? What pitfalls do you fear taking place that would make you feel that Macross is going down the drain?

To give an example - I used to be a BIG TIME Transformers collector and fan. I still am - but I am a fan "stuck" in the G1 through Beast Wars era. The 80s and the 90s were basically my golden time for Transformers. The first chink in my fanboyism came with the Dreamwave G1 comics, which were aweful (art and story wise) - but then again Dreamwave also brought on Simon Furman and produced Warwithin which was a saving grace. But I guess what really did me in was the horrible Unicron Trilogy - year and gutt pounding year of drivel (from my point of view). I understand that some kids - not my generation - can now say they grew up on this stuff - but it's just not my stuff. Probably the biggest sticking point that did me in was the tendency to completely revamp and reboot the series year after year - no continuity - just a general archetype for plot and characters which kept getting repackaged into new series. I will always be a fan of the original Marvel comics and the G1 cartoon. I enjoy the live action movie, but no longer enjoy the toys really and in my old age (30), I've found that my greatest pleasure comes from Encore, TFC - basically just the bare bones roots from my childhood - as well as BW II and Neo.

As for Macross -

One of the biggest saving graces of the Macross universe is the continuity between series and movies. Even if it's sometimes kind of contrived (oh, DYRL is a documentary within the SDFM TV universe or "DYRL is the way they look/SDFM TV is what actually happened), and even though some elements of that plot have been better and others poorer - it really does warm my heart that the story has a wholistic sense to it.

So - first thing that would begin the process of turning me away from Macross is if we ever got a Macross REBOOT.

I would hate that. I would be sadened. I would really be unhappy. If anything, consecutive Macross series have shown that this is a story that can introduce fresh concepts and ideas without retconing and negating the past achievements before it.

So - Warning Sign Number 1: Macross Reboot/"fresh start" series or OVA which just discards what came before.

What else?

Well - ok - sorry to say this (and not meaning to spark a debate on this subject but it did influence me a little...I know it's a discussion meant for toys but...) :

Bandai producing Macross Frontier DXs.

Now - I am holding out hope that the Armored Ozma will somehow be better than the first edition, and I do admit that Michael and Luca look better than I thought - but still - overall - compared to Yamato - I'm just dissapointed. Yeah, the 1/72s are the saving graces, but nothing beats a good chogokin. And since collecting figures and toys is so important to me - it is a big turn down that my favorite Macross Frontier stuff is...not desirable to me. This doesn't mean I'm "quiting Macross" or "turning my back" - but it certainly is a factor in my enthusiasm for Frontier kind of waning. Yamato coming out with the v.2 1/60s has just made me sorry they didn't get the license for the 25s...and in future - if Macross continues to be produced by Bandai, I fear that this might adversely affect the franchise because - ok - fine - ONE series of 25s and 27s from MF by Bandai won't kill things...but if the future of Macross toys is going to look like the DX and Yamato is just going to be improving the VF-1 for the rest of eternity - then this might have some negative consequences.

What else?

Off the top of my head - those are the two big things that might eventually make me shrug my shoulders at future Macross endeavors.

What about you guys? What are your fears? What do you think needs to be avoided?

Pete

Im going to add my two cents.

I was a fan of transformers when I was younger. Now Im 37. But I really never collected the toys. When I was younger I had a lot of SW toys but then chucked them when I got older. School, and traveling held my interest. I really got into transformers when I started watching BW when my life was in a bit of a slump. Something to look forward to watching on tv every wed after bullshit work.

I really got into the story and wanted more. Soon a buddy and me walked into sears to find they had released transformers but as beast wars and thought the concept was cool so each bought a shark one (forgot the name) It was cool so I kept collecting and found that the ball joint technology had made it fun. Continued to love the show and liked collecting the toys. When BW ended and BM was the next series. I lost a little interest but the toys kept me being a fan.

When they introduced the next armada series I got a few toys and quickly sold them. I only liked Unicron which was a toy I always thought should have been made. I have jetfire and deluxe prime the rest I gave to my nephew because I was embarrassed to keep such childish tonka like toys. I have some molds from Energon because it was a good effort to mimic real life vehicles. Loved RID and Cybertron.

I was pretty happy with the alternators line and the MPC

But ever since the first movie and a few toys my interest has been waning greatly. I am only going to get the New Leader Prime and autobot cars minus the retard twins from the new movie

I have acquired a finer taste for better engineered toys IE Macross and SOC

Macross has a more defined and grown up story compared to that of Bays pee vision of transformers. I got excited about yammies first 1/72 Mac+ and still like them.

Got my first 1/48 stealth and oh man did I love that

Then the 1/60 zeros liked it but scared to transform it

then the 1/60 19 and 21

and then the monster which was the let down. I got hooked on SOC when I got the aquarion toy which was very nicely engineered. Then moved onto the Dancougar and since then love the SOC line.

But since SOC line is dispersed and I am picky about which ones I get I moved into zoids. Got every single one minus the real ugly ones. But Overall satisfied with them

Would love to get into SHE PT Getter and GAIKING but dam thats out of my range. Maybe when I win the lotto.

Finally got my dream of getting all the PG gundams and cant wait for the new one

so yeah transformers has pretty much died out. I am not selling any cause my son will adopt them and he can do whatever he wants with them

[Gubaba]

My interest in Macross has kind of waxed and waned over the years, but I've never lost interest.

I think at this point it's pretty impossible for me to lose interest...Look at Gundam. I don't watch any of the new Gundam TV series, and haven't for years. I do watch new U.C. stories, although I disliked the 08th MS Team. But no matter what happens with any new Gundam, I think I will always love the original series, Zeta, parts of Double Zeta, and Char's Counterattack. I get Gundam Ace every month, even when there's no much in it that I care about.

So even if there were a new Macross series which SERIOUSLY sucked, it wouldn't change my feelings for everything that's come so far.

That said, my Macross Translation Project might kill it for me if it becomes more like a job than fun. You never know.

[sketchley]

Nothing.

I came to Japan because of it.

I've learned Japanese because of it, and am continuing to learn jargon/technical words because of it).

I'm making a manga because of it.

In other words, as a working, home owner, father of 2 living in a foreign country (Japan), the most likely thing is that I'm going to run out of time to properly enjoy it - which will make everything about it look more rosey and increase my interest in it.

[MisaForever]

If I learned that Robotech actually came before Macross, I would be forever lost.

[macross1979]

Nothing.

This I can and will agree with.

[taksraven]

I would only possibly lose interest in Macross if the franchise itself actually ended. OR, if they produced some Macross that was as bad as the Sylvester McCoy seasons of Dr Who in the 80's. But then again, if you use Gubaba's "Choose your own franchise" idea its easy to work around that.

Taksraven

[Mr March]

Nothing could ever destroy my love and continued adoration for the Kawamori Macross from 1982 to 1994 (SDF Macross to Macross Plus). To me, that period is forever golden

But with total honesty, the Macross 7 to Macross Zero era nearly finished me off. I was actually very disillusioned with Macross during that whole 1995 to 2006 era. The Yamato products, Animeigo set of SDF Macross and my decision to build the Macross Mecha Manual were the three things that sustained my Macross fandom more than anything else. A lot was riding on Macross Frontier; for me, it was the last hope. If Macross Frontier had turned out to be stupid like Macross 7 or fell with a thud like Macross Zero, that would have been it for me. With three strikes against it, I would have judged Macross spent and had no more entertainment value left to it. I would have given up on Macross as a franchise.

Now, I've no doubt that even if I left the Macross franchise I would have still purchased the Revoltech figures. But I would not have collected the Macross Chronicle, I'd have left the Macross online community and I would have closed my website (or perhaps handed it off to a trustworthy fan).

Edited April 7, 2009 by Mr March

[Killer Robot]

I was a big fan of Transformers as a kid, and a whole lot of other things that I'm not really interested in any more. Sometimes I stopped following the new stuff. Sometimes I enjoy the old stuff but only in a nostalgic rather than a truly respectful way. Sometimes I look back and think "Wow, I used to enjoy this crap?" In most cases, it's not so much that the material has declined in quality, but rather that I've grown up, or that it's lost its novelty. Or to put it more neutrally, my tastes have changed and what I used to really appreciate doesn't necessarily interest me so much any more, especially if it's more of something I've already seen. In either case, a bad new installment isn't likely to spoil a whole franchise for me: if I stop enjoying something old it's because I changed, not because it did.

One other thing: I discovered Macross at an older age: college for Macross Plus and the other series later when anime itself was no longer a new and exciting thing for me. Maybe my tastes are less fluid now and will stick with me, I don't know. In any case, when Zero came out I watched an episode or two of high quality CGI and then drifted off. Frontier caught me slowly but I ended up loving it a great deal. The future? Who can tell, but it will depend on what's made, and who I am when I see it.

Edited April 7, 2009 by Killer Robot

[bb_f1]

Macross cartoon was shown earlier than transformer back then in singapore. Macross VF-1J bandai was the first toy I bought before switching to Tfs. Macross always have a special place in my heart.

[BlueMax]

Don't think I can ever lose interest completely in Macross.

Started watching Macross somewhere in 1985/86 when it first aired in Singapore.

Since then, I have NEVER stopped missing it. Not even when Macross was in semi-oblivion mode in the early - mid 90s (Macross was mostly contained in Japan and whatever stuff there was trickled out slowly until the internet boom in the late 90s)

In fact those years, I have NEVER stopped to look for any macross model kits and toys... and after the 15th Anniversary the wait aid off.... but I could only find model kit re-releases. (thinking back, it was quite amazing that HG did not really pull the plug on these imports as most major department stores had them displayed in huge quantities).... and to my utter disappointment, no toys.

I was THOROUGHLY overjoyed when i chanced upon the bandai re-release of the 1/55 and the Yamato V1.0 and since then, I have been in Macross Heaven..... only thing that sucks big time is that the dept stores can no longer bring in Macross stuff legitimately on a big scale.... (no thanks to HG!)

So "NO", don't think i will ever totally be done with Macross completely, especially the SDF:M and DYRL? era characters and mecha, though when and if it goes back into oblivion mode, it will be inevitable that interest will wane accordingly.

[MilSpex]

When I find every piece of `80s Macross merchandise in Nakano Broadway it`s all over. (ie: never.)

[Vinnie]

Nothing. And generally speaking I'll dig everything or something about everything with the Macross label attached to it.

I loved Macross 7 despite the low production values; the characters, story, and music were amazing.

I loved Macross 2 once again despite the low production values and destruction of the Macross.

I liked Macross Zero for the dogfights, mecha, and visual spectacular it was, but the story and characters were disappointing.

I enjoyed Macross 7 Trash...it's Mikimoto art.

Macross Plus (and SDF:M via Robotech) is the reason I'm a military pilot today. So really there's nothing they could do to Macross that would turn me away.

This inlcudes the release of Macross Nyan: a 49 episode harem comedy involving singing catgirl maids piloting transforming fighters to protect some hapless 16 year old boy that just inherited the Shinsei Heavy Industries fortune.

[Major Focker]

M7 nearly killed it for me. when i saw spiritia getting sucked from the pilots, i was like WTF?! vampires in macross?! never got beyond that episode, and thought that was it for me and macross.

then i saw MII, which while controversial and not at all spectacular, i thought the mecha design was cool, and so i gave macross another chance.

and M+ delivered my salvation.

[Valkyrie addict]

a pathetic retelling of frontier as a movie that will make considerable plot changes to please fanboys and not tie up all the loose ends left up from the TV series

[Agent ONE]

I somehow overlook Macross 7, so obviously NOTHING can keep me away from Macross.

[dreamweaver13]

I'll lose interest when i'm dead... then add another year or two, to be sure.

[Desty_Nova]

This inlcudes the release of Macross Nyan: a 49 episode harem comedy involving singing catgirl maids piloting transforming fighters to protect some hapless 16 year old boy that just inherited the Shinsei Heavy Industries fortune.

Hey that sounds pretty good.

[EXO]

It'd have to be like the Godfather where they put a severed head of a horse with a macross symbol on its forehead...

nah I'd probably add that to the display...

[VFTF1]

a pathetic retelling of frontier as a movie that will make considerable plot changes to please fanboys and not tie up all the loose ends left up from the TV series

Unless it involved a two hour lesbian strip teeze by Sheryl and Ranka performed to the tune of Zero-G love.

Pete

[SchizophrenicMC]

Unless it involved a two hour lesbian strip teeze by Sheryl and Ranka performed to the tune of Zero-G love.

Pete

I'd like to reiterate: Pete, you are my hero.

[Major Focker]

Unless it involved a two hour lesbian strip teeze by Sheryl and Ranka performed to the tune of Zero-G love.

Pete

lol!

but isn't sheryl pretty much already stripteasing whenever she performs? and ranka... well, there's just not much to see

so i vote cathy and grace! (animating klan and nanase might kill the animators due to nosebleed)

[Cent]

I would lose interest if...

1. They start using more melee weapons than actual guns ala Gundam.

2. The mecha in this become so resilient to damage that they can take direct hits and not suffer crippling damage ala Gundam.

3. If piloting skill and excellence takes a backseat to the technology of the mecha they're piloting or pilots are able to bring out inherently suppressed super abilities that seem to defy all odds but only emerge when the pilot is under a stressful situation. What a load of bull.

4. If the love triangles and singing get worse than what it already is and have a larger role than piloting itself. Mac Frontier was already pushing the boundaries in terms of this.

[Phyrox]

Well, none of the macross that's come out since...Plus has been good enough to make me a long term fan like the original series and DYRL did. So I guess they can continue to put out mediocre stuff until the end of time. The stuff I am really into with Macross hasn't really been added to in a long while anyway.

[aerocombatpilot]

Well, none of the macross that's come out since...Plus has been good enough to make me a long term fan like the original series and DYRL did. So I guess they can continue to put out mediocre stuff until the end of time. The stuff I am really into with Macross hasn't really been added to in a long while anyway.

I have to agree. Macross Plus was the last "sequel" to Macross in my mind. Mac 7 wasn't what I expected, and sadly neither was Macross zero. I had placed my hopes in Macross Frontier, and it did keep my attention but ultimately it was a letdown. However, I have come to accept the fact that there will never be a "true" sequel to the original Macross. For whatever reason, the powers that be have chosen not to continue the story of Hikaru, Misa, and Minmay. I can live with that, however I will still enjoy Macross in whatever incarnation it appears in. Provided Kawamori doesn't do anything to

Hikaru, Misa, and Minmay, like killing them off. THAT WOULD MAKE ME STOP WATCHING MACROSS!!!