Terminator Salvation, colon, Really Long Movie Title

[Chewie]

the time travel thing was the last resort, not the Endos.

they were pretty much buried up to their necks in Endos & HK's at that point.

Reese implied the sheer mass of the machine effort with "hide during the day, move by night" when he was explaining things so Sarah.

so yeah, minimal machine presence roughly 14 years into the war doesn't make sense.

at the same time, with the war lasting that long, i wouldn't think the resistance would be so rich in resources anymore.

In T1 Reese is (lets assume) 25-30 years old. In TS he's 15-17. In TS the 800 is introduced . It's not in high supply, it's not already infiltrating as a human. It's brand spankin' new.

Skynet tells Marcus he's the prototype for a new model that will put an end to the whole thing.

Short of the all out blatant-ness of some of the scenes in the movie, (which differ from the prequel book about the secrecy of the resistances airbases) there's no reason they couldn't have a decent supply of military firepower. Even 15 years into the future especially if John was the first one on the radio in the end of T3, he was telling them from the start about hoarding all material. There were probably numerous bunkers all over the world that even if hit with a nuke, they'd still be intact as well.

Some of it's questionable but not all out unbelievable.

Edited May 26, 2009 by Chewie

[Alpha OTS]

Some of it's questionable but not all out unbelievable.

A veterinarian doing a heart transplant in the open desert on a windy day.

A man gaining access to a submarine by jumping into an ocean during a violent storm.

Skynet HQ is guarded by a single terminator whose electronics can withstand the heat of molten slag.

Kyle Reese's importance is known by Skynet despite never having been given this knowledge in any previous movie. Outside of Connor, his mother, and his wife, this knowledge is not available anywhere else.

Those are just for starters. I did not like this movie. My brother and I were laughing at how absurd it was by the end. "That's not him doing CPR there, is it? Err.....oh my. He's not going to... He did. Ok, that's just silly."

[Warmaker]

Fantastic compilation. A true tribute to a real visionary. Thanks for posting this.

Remembering scenes like that from T1 & T2, I was expecting T3 to be about the future war full of scenes like these. That didn't happen. When TS was coming about, I was overjoyed to hear it was about the future war itself, but was disappointed that the fighting didn't look or feel like the scenes from T1 & T2. Even the TV series had a better feel for the Resistance being more desperate and underground, trying to keep out of Skynet's eyes and ears.

[wolfx]

Kyle Reese's importance is known by Skynet despite never having been given this knowledge in any previous movie. Outside of Connor, his mother, and his wife, this knowledge is not available anywhere else.

Maybe it has something to do with the current Skynet being modelled after the neural network CPU salvaged from the original T-800 in T1, which might have its memories transferred over to the current Skynet.

[Chewie]

A veterinarian doing a heart transplant in the open desert on a windy day.

I don't recall seeing the actual surgery and 15 years is a long time to learn how to do things.

A man gaining access to a submarine by jumping into an ocean during a violent storm.

They did it in The Hunt for Red October. =P

Skynet HQ is guarded by a single terminator whose electronics can withstand the heat of molten slag.

No, it's not guarded by a single terminator. They were both allowed to enter because Skynet was being arrogant. As for the molten slag, eh. Welcome to science fiction. You're one of those guys that hates lightsabers, aren't ya?

Kyle Reese's importance is known by Skynet despite never having been given this knowledge in any previous movie. Outside of Connor, his mother, and his wife, this knowledge is not available anywhere else.

I agree with this one. I was trying to pinpoint where Skynet would have learned about it. Best guess, Skynet somehow found out Reese was the one that went back in time and then assumed. I dunno. Edited May 26, 2009 by Chewie

[kaiotheforsaken]

No, it's not guarded by a single terminator. They were both allowed to enter because Skynet allowed it. As for the molten slag, eh. Welcome to science fiction. You're one of those guys that hates lightsabers, aren't ya?

Considering Arnold was "killed" at the end of T2 by being lowered in molten slag, seems sort of odd that this 800/101 could survive it. While one could argue that they were different metals and/or kept at different temperatures it's not really relevant. The 800 was presented as essentially invincible (yet somehow Marcus could basically tear its head off...yeah, ok).

As for the surgery, sure you don't see it, but seeing as how he goes out and wakes up on the same table in the middle of the friggin desert or whatever, it is a safe assumption it was done on site.

[Alpha OTS]

Fantastic compilation. A true tribute to a real visionary. Thanks for posting this.

Yeowzer. That video's a clear demonstration of how off the mark TS is.

[Alpha OTS]

I don't recall seeing the actual surgery and 15 years is a long time to learn how to do things.

In post-apocalyptic earth? Nope.

No, it's not guarded by a single terminator. They were both allowed to enter because Skynet allowed it. As for the molten slag, eh. Welcome to science fiction. You're one of those guys that hates lightsabers, aren't ya?

Then why weren't all of those terminators mobilized once it was confirmed Conner was inside? It's a terminator assembly plant for the love of Jeff! Skynet in this movie *IS* Dr. Evil. It just can't instantly kill these people, it needs an elaborate and exotic scheme that it assumes will play out as planned.

I loved lightsabers up until Lucas went crazy in 1997. Now I can easily pass on anything new that has lightsabers in it.

I agree with this one. I was trying to pinpoint where Skynet would have learned about it. Best guess, Skynet somehow found out Reese was the one that went back in time and then assumed. I dunno.

I wanted to like the movie. I really wanted to like it. But like I said, my brother and I were laughing out loud at the end because we could no longer suspend our disbelief. Conner's tossed around into solid metal structures, but then in the next scene he's moving around like he's never been touched?

Oh, and resistance pilots are hot women with perfect long flowing hair.

[Chewie]

Considering Arnold was "killed" at the end of T2 by being lowered in molten slag, seems sort of odd that this 800/101 could survive it. While one could argue that they were different metals and/or kept at different temperatures it's not really relevant. The 800 was presented as essentially invincible (yet somehow Marcus could basically tear its head off...yeah, ok).

As for the surgery, sure you don't see it, but seeing as how he goes out and wakes up on the same table in the middle of the friggin desert or whatever, it is a safe assumption it was done on site.

The 800 wasn't submerged and what it did have on it was then flash frozen. The molten metal didn't melt Marcus' hand off either. The same could be attributed to Marcus' ripping it's head off. As for invincible, small arms(short of the grenades that didn't do sh*t) and a cyborg still thinking in terms of being human, sums it up pretty well.

The surgery, yeah, fine. John will get in infection in the interim between movies and will need to raid a Skynet factory for penicillin.

[kaiotheforsaken]

Arnold went offline within half a minute of his head being submerged within the molten metal. It's reasonable to assume that the damage to the components of both Marcus and the 800 should have been more substantial, and it seems silly that it wasn't.

But the entire film was silly in my opinion and had almost no point. After watching the first two again this weekend, it's really obvious how far off the mark this film really is.

[UN_MARINE]

In T1 Reese is (lets assume) 25-30 years old. In TS he's 15-17. In TS the 800 is introduced . It's not in high supply, it's not already infiltrating as a human. It's brand spankin' new.

true, the 800 is only just being introduced. but what about all the other machines that were built before it?

the machines would've had to start with a 100 series all the way to the 600's. that's 14 years of non-stop production & development, it would be reasonable to assume there would be thousands of the earlier models scattered around.

Short of the all out blatant-ness of some of the scenes in the movie, (which differ from the prequel book about the secrecy of the resistances airbases) there's no reason they couldn't have a decent supply of military firepower. Even 15 years into the future especially if John was the first one on the radio in the end of T3, he was telling them from the start about hoarding all material. There were probably numerous bunkers all over the world that even if hit with a nuke, they'd still be intact as well.

take into account casualties & compromised bases, destroyed hardware & no way of replacing high-value hardware, 14-15 years of fighting would have backed them into a wall already. i have to imagine that in 15 years, Skynet would've destroyed more than a dozen installations, airfields, carriers & subs.

the resistance having the equipment they have is just fine, it's the apparent over-abundance of it that seems off.

[sidearmsalpha]

Just watched it tonight. Like alot of you, I have some of the same gripes about the plot, but the main thing that bothered me, too, was that the future didn't seem as bleak as it has been portrayed in the first 2 movies. I thought they were going to show a graphic depiction of the nuclear attack at the beginning for starters. And if this nuclear war had been as intense as it was, you would rarely see daylight and stuff would look more f'ed up than it was. Hell, survivors would still be suffering from radiation poisoning. Just my 2 cents.

[DarrinG]

The wife just made me watch T3 as part of the deal to get her "caught up" before we see TS this coming Friday. I had seen about 20 minutes of T3 a few years ago and that was enough for me -- still, we rented it last night.

T3 was bloody awful. We fast-forwarded over a good bit just to get through it.

The guy at the block-buster counter said he was disappointed in TS, he said to spend my money on Star Trek instead.

Tell me - TS IS better than T3 right? C'mon, it has to be better . . .

[VF-19]

As an action movie, it was OK. As a terminator movie... Well, let's just say I consider T2 to be the last terminator movie.

Personally, I would have cut out about a 1/2 hour out of the movie, just for pacing issues.

[sharky]

I saw it as well and I'm with UN on this one.

The movie had essentially...zero point to it at all. It was almost like the big wigs just said, 'well we haven't done Terminator in a while, might as well see if we can milk it some more". The action was pretty pointless, the characters were shallow and there was some lousy acting to boot.

Other things like the seemingly limitless supply of military hardware (like military installations wouldn't be high on the nuke list for Skynet?), lame implementation of the Terminators and nukes going off all over the place with Hueys just flying next to them like it was no big deal really sorta killed it. It didn't even satisfy as a popcorn flick in my book, I just kept thinking, "what the hell?"

Shoulda just seen Trek again.

Yeah, now that I think about it some more, I agree. In my previous post I was only trying to illustrate that it's simply various action sequences tied together by some dull moments of dialogue. And, I suppose that makes a whole lot of sense given the directors experience is with music videos. As others have pointed out, I didn't get that sense of the humans desperate attempt to stay alive and avoid total annihilation.

And as others have pointed out again, it's silly to think that Skynet would not have completely devastated the military during Judgment Day given the fact that it had control over the entire military network and probably knew the locations of every single military base and installation as well as the locations of all the ships and subs in real time. Well, I guess the sub could have been non-US. Heck, if they were going to have military vehicles they should have all been foreign. Then at least would have had a little sense realism. There, in 1 minute I came up with a better plot scenario than the freak'n writers of this movie. They should have set up a fan forum and started various threads. Then the writers could have lurked in the threads and probably would have had much better ideas on how to make a decent story.

I honestly thought the movie at some point was going to flash forward some years to the time where John Connor sends back Kyle Reese to follow the Arnold terminator thus tying the movie back to the first movie and closing the loop. But, I guess that is a big no-no these days. Then you wouldn't be able to do any more sequels.

One last thing.

Unless I am mistaken, how the hell do you successfully performance a heart transplant in the open air in a battle field trauma camp.

[sharky]

I think more accurately, Skynet knew its days were numbered. As a last ditch, it sent Model 101 back to the past in a hope to change fate....which the point now is pretty moot with the Salvation movie don't u think since they already said that time travel was now an alternate parallel universe rather than a linear time path.

Which would mean Reese did not have to go back to the past to impregnate Sarah nor did they need to bother trying to protect kid John of this dimension since as far as they are concerned, they won the war.

I think Kyle always has to go back in time regardless. Otherwise John Connor would never exist. The thing you have to think about is that if Skynet ever knows that Kyle Reese is the father, then it would be better to never develop time travel. Then Kyle would never have a way to travel back in time to have a baby with Sarah Connor. In Salvation

it seems like Skynet knows Kyle Reese is the father, and uses Kyle as bait to flush out John. But, why not just kill Kyle and eliminate the existence of John Connor.

I think it should be more like in Star Trek when someone alters history. You see an instantaneous effect of a new reality were some of history events never took place thus altering the future in many ways that is not even conceivable at the time. As long as John exists we know for certain that Kyle Reese lives to travel back in time to meet up with Sarah. The events that lead to that may be different, but the end result is a definite. So, if Skynet made the decision to never develop time travel than you would instantaneously have a reality without John Connor.

I don't subscribe to the alternate universe as an explanation to events in movies. I think it's a total cop out to deal with plot holes. In theory there are infinite alternate realities created for every choice and action we take in life. But, in the movie we are dealing with one particular reality and one particular timeline. You could show alternate timelines for every singe decision and action in the movie, not just those that are different due to a time travel event. You have to just pick one and go with it, otherwise the story, any story, is pointless.

From T1, Kyle Reease explains to the cops after he gets arrested that "Skynet's defense grid was smashed". The war was essentially won at that point as he explains. But, I wonder what capability Skynet still has if it's "defense grid is smashed"? What does that mean exactly? Just that it can't communicate to it's various terminators to organize attacks, etc? The time travel was supposed to be a one shot deal because Connor was supposed to have destroyed the time travel device once Kyle went through to chase after Arnold. The other movies never explain it, but perhaps Connor wasn't able to destroy it, or maybe Skynet had more than one, or maybe it was able to eventually build a new one.

Another thing that bugs me is the whole Skynet evolved from the massive worldwide computer network of the worlds computer's being tied together. Wouldn't the nuclear destruction of every major city in the world essentially kill Skynet if that were the case? So, we must assume that Skynet still has a core consciousness from which it "lives" in the Skynet satellite as what was originally the case. Or, do I have it wrong? Skynet evolved from the fact that it was connected to the Internet, but it doesn't need the Internet to exist once it evolved?

[EXO]

Went to the movies this weekend... decided to watch Night at the Museum instead! What a good decision... It was so funny!

BTW, those IMAX experience theatres just mean you get to experience paying for IMAX, that's about it.

[Agent ONE]

You guys are too critical. it was pretty good. I put this one on par with T2, and much better than T3, not nowhere near T1.

EDIT IN:

The general dude that was also in Starship Troopers... He really needs to give his DNA back to Jack Nicholson.

Edited May 26, 2009 by Agent ONE

[VF-19]

I'd just like to point out one thing: Skynet MUST create time travel, or it won't exist. One of the ironies of the first movie is that Skynet and John Conner created each other. If Skynet doesn't send back the terminator, then John doesn't send back Kyle. Thus Kyle doesn't woo Sarah, and Skynet doesn't leave behind a broken T-800 for Cyberdyne. From the point of view of the first movie, all John has to do to save the future is to shoot Kyle at first opportunity.

Gotta love paradoxes!

[505thAirborne]

Went to the movies this weekend... decided to watch Night at the Museum instead! What a good decision... It was so funny!

BTW, those IMAX experience theatres just mean you get to experience paying for IMAX, that's about it.

I hear that, used to go to the IMAX at Universal City Walk, $10.00 more than a regular theater, sound isn't any better and really uncomfortable seats!!

Saw Star trek and loved it, Didn't like TS. I'll go see Night at the Museum instead!!

[Ghadrack]

The only reason I can think of them showing the T-800 "toying around" with Connor is just an extended way to show how superior the 800 is compared to the 600. Impervious to conventional firearms (most types), strong (a given), agile, deceptive, and relentless. A chance to show in the movie how it contrasts to the powerful but clumsy juggernaut of the 600 series.

Otherwise, as you said, Connor would have been dead the first time the 800 actually got a hold of him. In T1, the crippled Terminator needed maybe a few more inches to crush the life out of Sarah until the press came down.

I fully expect that in T5 at some point Skynet will be hacked by young John Connor in a flashback to write code that gives it a hidden "Robocop directive" that Skyney cannot shoot or crush John Connor, so it has to keep throwing him out of frustration in all of the movies.

[wolfx]

The confusion now lies that time travel in terminator has changed from being the linear time travel into alternate dimension time travel.

Skynet's actions of sending terminators back to assasinate sarah and john connor proves that as far as T1 and T2 was concerned, time was expected to move in a linear fashion. Otherwise there would be no reason for Skynet to send terminators back in time unless to reinforce other space-time realities for Skynet's victory. But Salvation opens a whole can of worms by having this whole "This is not the future my mother told me about" crap.

For all we know, in the original timeline reality if no terminators were ever sent back, Skynet will still be created albeit different methods that don't require Cyberdyne to salvage a terminator. John Connor might've been born from a different father. Sarah might have named John Connor John simply because of the meddling of Reese and his crazy messiah talk. Thus T2-TS John isn't the same John from future war T1. Gah...my brain hurts.

I have not watched TS. It opens this weekend over here.

[sharky]

I'd just like to point out one thing: Skynet MUST create time travel, or it won't exist. One of the ironies of the first movie is that Skynet and John Conner created each other. If Skynet doesn't send back the terminator, then John doesn't send back Kyle. Thus Kyle doesn't woo Sarah, and Skynet doesn't leave behind a broken T-800 for Cyberdyne. From the point of view of the first movie, all John has to do to save the future is to shoot Kyle at first opportunity.

Gotta love paradoxes!

I suppose, but I'm not sure if TSCC is considered canon because then you have Skynet being created in a totally different way. That is, without the aid of the original Arnold chip and Cyberdyne. Perhaps just the creation of endos requires that Skynet send back the first terminator. But, the point about killing Kyle is interesting. Following the story of T1 and T2 exclusively, if John essentially erases his own existence by killing Kyle, then Skynet would have no reason to send back a terminator to kill Sarah. Skynet never gets created as well. So, you're right in that if John kills Kyle then he can save humanity by killing himself and taking Skynet with it. I got a headache now.

The confusion now lies that time travel in terminator has changed from being the linear time travel into alternate dimension time travel.

Skynet's actions of sending terminators back to assasinate sarah and john connor proves that as far as T1 and T2 was concerned, time was expected to move in a linear fashion. Otherwise there would be no reason for Skynet to send terminators back in time unless to reinforce other space-time realities for Skynet's victory. But Salvation opens a whole can of worms by having this whole "This is not the future my mother told me about" crap.

For all we know, in the original timeline reality if no terminators were ever sent back, Skynet will still be created albeit different methods that don't require Cyberdyne to salvage a terminator. John Connor might've been born from a different father. Sarah might have named John Connor John simply because of the meddling of Reese and his crazy messiah talk. Thus T2-TS John isn't the same John from future war T1. Gah...my brain hurts.

I have not watched TS. It opens this weekend over here.

I don't think the line about "this is not the future my mother told me about" justifies alternate realities. It just means that Sarah didn't have all the answers. She didn't now exactly how things would play out. What's interesting is that what if Kyle wasn't really needed to father John with Sarah. What if a child would have been born from Sarah regardless, and that child would have grown up to lead the resistance. What if Skynet would have been developed somehow without the help of the damaged terminator from T1. The insertion of Arnold and Kyle into the timeline might have just screwed things up a bit, but perhaps Kyle giving Sarah knowledge of the future was needed to counter the changing of the future by Skynet sending back a terminator in the first place. In other words, Sarah might have met the real father of John the day Arnold went back in time, but Arnold and Kyle's presence in her time made her change her normal routine that day. Maybe Sarah would have met John's father at the movie she was going to see that night, but she was spooked by Kyle and never made it to the theater.

Now I need to lie down.

[Knight26]

Alternate universes are the tools of poor writers, a good writer with a tight story can write a good casual loop story without plotholes that require such poor tools. The original Terminator was such a story, all those that have followed have just created more and more holes.

[the white drew carey]

I saw it, thought it was fun. I have to admit that I liked the current state of things much more than Cameron's. It seemed more plausible here that the resistance has a fighting chance.

There's enough inconsistencies in all of the movies that I don't bother with continuity anymore. Starting with T2, each film has tried to bring it's visual wow-factor to the mix, and this one doesn't disappoint.

I give it two-thumbs up for enjoyment. Its no Ghosts of Girlfriends Past but, then again, what is?

[Mr March]

Terminator The Monster Ballad

[Bri]

oh my, that just made my evening, thanks Mr March

[505thAirborne]

Terminator The Monster Ballad

That was awesome, cheesy and I laughed my ass off!!!!

[Alpha OTS]

EXCLUSIVE: WHAT WENT WRONG WITH TERMINATOR SALVATION?

It at least makes sense why the movie is what it is. Essentially, Batman told the Terminator to dance.

[Chewie]

EXCLUSIVE: WHAT WENT WRONG WITH TERMINATOR SALVATION?

It at least makes sense why the movie is what it is. Essentially, Batman told the Terminator to dance.

Wow.

=\

[eugimon]

Saw it, thought it was okay. Better than the third movie but I thought the final act and especially the ending really sucked the life out of the movie.

[Razor x]

I think the movie would have made more sense if Skynet had no idea who Kyle Reese was .

that fact should have been Jhons little secret, then it would have been a nice son rescues father story.

"Hell no!... your to ugly to be my son!"

[EXO]

EXCLUSIVE: WHAT WENT WRONG WITH TERMINATOR SALVATION?

It at least makes sense why the movie is what it is. Essentially, Batman told the Terminator to dance.

Ugh... That was awful too!

[Graham]

Watching it on Friday with BlackAces and Neova.

Graham

[areaseven]

EXCLUSIVE: WHAT WENT WRONG WITH TERMINATOR SALVATION?

It at least makes sense why the movie is what it is. Essentially, Batman told the Terminator to dance.

Okay, whoever wrote that original script should be flogged along with those who did the final script. This is Terminator, not Face/Off.