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should macross get a remake also


southpaw
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Well then DIE and you'll know. :p

You can't even refute what I wrote so what do you want to argue about ? I gave a number or reasons for a remake of Macross having a good probability of going ahead. You on the other hand haven't given any reason for BW not going ahead with a remake.

I've expressed my view on this above - I think a remake could be good if done well. I'f so, I'd be first in line to see it. And with yamato and Gundam remakes already in the pipeline, I wouldnt be all that surprised if some sort of remake did happen.

Having said this, the only logical conclusion I can come up with is that a remake is far from a foregone conclusion as you seem to presume.

Keep in mind the following factors:

(1) Money - BW doesnt have anywhere near the money that Bandai has. HD remakes arent cheap and without a large established fanbase or NEW figures/mecha to make toys of theres little chance of recouping said money. One possibility could be a new type of business model like Yamato 2199 is using - try to make back money at cinema and via bluray.DVD first, then look for a tv broadcast. But theres nothing to indicate that BW is that progressive in its thinking. Nor that the model will actually work since younger fans will most likely just pirate the blurays, leaving the burden of supporting the franchise on the much smaller old series fanbase.

(2) Nostalgia - The nostalgia factor is key in a remake. Yamato is known to pretty much every single Japanese person on the face of the planet, regardless of whether or not they have actually watched it. Gundam is well known enough that it has accounted for over 50% of all plastic model kit sales for 30 years. Macross does NOT have that sort of nostalgia/name recognition factor. Its only in the last few yars that I've come across anyone other than hardcore fans who knew what Macross is. And even then, all they had heard of was Frontier.

(3) Knee-jerk reaction - Bandai hadnt originally planned to animate Gundam the Origin. Notice the distinct lack of news since it was announced? thats because Bandai did it while in damage control mode - fan reaction to Gundam Age designs was so negative (one guy at my office was actually cradling his head in his hands when he saw the character designs while saying that Gundam was probably 'over.') that Bandai knew they had to do something to distract them as quickly as possible. Frontier, on the other hand, was generally well-recieved. People liked it and undoubtedly want more stuff of a similar nature. A remake wouldnt cater to their needs.

(4) New fanbase - Speaking of which, the new fanbase is primarily young and hasnt watched the original. They place a lower emphasis on mecha and action and want more new songs and pretty looking characters and drama. A faithful remake wouldnt cater to their tastes and wouldnt make anywhere near the money that Frontier did.

(5) Resources - Satellite is tied up with Moretsu Pirates, Aquarion Evol and (by far the biggest project they have ever done) Akiba 48. If a remake WERE to happen, it wouldnt be in the forseeable future unless they underwent a sudden expansion of their studio 8then theres the concerns regarding quality that this would inherrently bring with it).

(6) Kawamori - quite possibly the biggest hurdle would be Kawamori himself. He has said on several occassions that he dislikes doing the same thing over and over - to the point that he has refused to revisit the original SDFM characters despite fans hounding him for more for 30 straight years now. With this in mind, i can't see him being all that interested in wanting to remake the entire original series.

As I noted above, in the long-run a remake is probable but in the immediate short term it just seems to have too many factors stacked against it. personally I'd rather that they finish The First and then look at a remake so we could potentially have a longer (50eps?) series that fleshes some things out more fully. But hey, thats just me.

Edited by Tochiro
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Have the mechanics of fold travel ever really mattered in the past shows? I always found it was just the excuse to give Macross its own version of the ubiquitous faster-than-light travel. A fold generally takes however long it needs to for the scene. Even when Misa and Hikaru talk about folds, the real reason for the scene is to have them argue like a tsundere couple.

The fold time differential actually mattered to the captured by the zentradi arc, in the end. Since they were gone for much longer in real time, their return was a much bigger deal. I believe they'd been declared KIA by the time they showed back up.

And Hikaru missed Minmay's debut, continuing the long chain of missed chances, bad timing, and misunderstandings that prevented their relationship from really going anywhere.

And I'm pretty sure that's why they bothered to explain it at all, though it wasn't be the first time they did something just so they could inject "hard" science-fiction into the series.

Isn't that exactly the same as people complaining about the changes to the fold effect or how something was described in a source book varies from place to place?

Not really. Trek retcons are as irrelevant as the original continuity they edit was. They have no real effect, since Trek has no real continuity.

When you get a franchise that DOES have a continuity, it matters.

And my grumbling about the fold fissures is part that it directly contradicts implications in prior works(that there's a constant difference in the flow of time), and part that it removes something that actually makes a lot of sense(a parallel universe with a different value for c also has a different constant for the base rate of time) and replaces it with something that makes less sense(a parllel universe with a different value for c has the same base rate of time, but you can hit a pothole and lose a week).

It's like how Star Trek changed from using lithim, a real material with known properties, to regulate the warp reactor to dilithium, a fake material with no known properties, to increase believability, since they were doing things with lithium that made no sense.

Only if they did it in reverse. AFTER the properties they were changing had mattered to the overarcing story that Trek didn't have.

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Do we really need Macross to be retold in a slightly different way? NO!!

Its being done before ... SDFM > DYRL / Macross Plus OAV > Macross Plus Movie Edition / Macross Frontier TV > Macross Frontier Movie I & II.

So, if Big West wants to cash in with nostalgic fest of Macross crowds, sure, why not? Especially if its make money & profit for 'em, the better. It could be brand new reboot SDFM in the style of Macross the First OAVs or series ....

I mean, its up to the creators & PIC at Big West. Old Macross gaijins fans grouses from the West won't change jack.

I support reboot, ONLY if its Macross the First being animated.

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The fold time differential actually mattered to the captured by the zentradi arc, in the end. Since they were gone for much longer in real time, their return was a much bigger deal. I believe they'd been declared KIA by the time they showed back up.

And Hikaru missed Minmay's debut, continuing the long chain of missed chances, bad timing, and misunderstandings that prevented their relationship from really going anywhere.

And I'm pretty sure that's why they bothered to explain it at all, though it wasn't be the first time they did something just so they could inject "hard" science-fiction into the series.

I'm not sure if that really hinges on the mechanics of folds so much as "they went on a mission and were gone a long time." They could have just been gone long enough to miss things that were important to them back on the Macross. Either way it's like you said, just science window dressing.

I don't think it was just Frontier as neither Plus nor 7 seem to make any big deal about time differences.

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You do realize the little words are just as easy to read as the big words right?

I think it's fairly obvious that Battletech is just as old, toxic, and outdated as Robotech. Really anything with tech in the title other than Tech and Talk ain't too hot these days.

What's this about Tek War?

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This one could end up like poking a stick in a Wasps nest. But if it were up to Holly Werid they would as they are not scarred of Wasps or sticks. Lucky for us unless someone from the West eg. America buys Humngney Gawld and gets control of Big West it is unlikely to happen.

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No to any and all remakes, but a big YES to a 3-5 Episode long OAV side-story which takes place during the first few episodes of the original SDF:Macross. Preferably a story about an original valkyrie or destroid squadron, which we have never seen before.

Overall however, I much rather go forward, than backwards. Let’s see the VF-30, VF-40.

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http://collectiondx....st_mechwarriors

Of course

Actually we had a fairly reasoned discussion on the subject and I made fanart in a later blog post.

o.O anime magic.....anime magic..... and im pretty sure the Kali Yama Big Bore... fires like Maytag shaped rounds...

  1. LOL i never said BT beats Gundam... its a game that enjoys some popularity, enjoys some level of disbelief to play, etc... The computer limitations extend to practical experiance with the programs that help run the games. you simply cant toss a MW2:Mercs CD into you comp and expect it to run with up-to-date tech. the program itself is so 1940's radioshows compared to last week's Jersey Shore... id love to play those games but... i simply cant (or to your comment, dont know a suitale work-around)...

but im glad you like the video's. Its all about story, whether its Harry Pothead, Star Wars, or Akira. its all about story... and magic flowers for you robowrech faries out there....Derp.

of topic but funny: You think you seen weird until, while your busy printing D&D, BT mech, Vehicle and Map sheets, your future step daughter finds and beings to play kiss with your 12" tall Grey Godzilla & Destroyah plushies.... O.O WTF. (and damn it, leave the cats alone!)

No to any and all remakes, but a big YES to a 3-5 Episode long OAV side-story which takes place during the first few episodes of the original SDF:Macross. Preferably a story about an original valkyrie or destroid squadron, which we have never seen before.

Overall however, I much rather go forward, than backwards. Let’s see the VF-30, VF-40.

why the hell have they not done move OVA type videos?

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LOL i never said BT beats Gundam... its a game that enjoys some popularity, enjoys some level of disbelief to play, etc...

Suspension of disbelief is not a factor in game design on a mechanical level, only how a game presents itself to players. My podcast was about using repeatable and demonstrable instances of poor game design and how it is evident in the PC games and the board game. Clearly Btech is losing some popularity due to its refusal to change anything significant. To quote my co-host, it replaces fun with math.

If you wish to be dismissive of cited examples of mechanics and documented evidence then feel free to provide something to the contrary in another thread or perhaps on the blog post.

The computer limitations extend to practical experiance with the programs that help run the games. you simply cant toss a MW2:Mercs CD into you comp and expect it to run with up-to-date tech. the program itself is so 1940's radioshows compared to last week's Jersey Shore... id love to play those games but... i simply cant (or to your comment, dont know a suitale work-around)...

but im glad you like the video's.

Ok let me put this in a way you can understand.

I made those videos.

You can use DOSbox to run MW1 and MW2 Mercenaries. MW4 works fine on modern systems. MW3 can be made to run with some limitations. The Playstation port of MW2 runs perfectly on an emulation program to say nothing of ports and spinoffs of the other games.

If you lack the ability to properly discuss this subject or even the subject of a Macross remake, you may wish to toddle off to Sesame Street just as you told me to do.

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As I noted above, in the long-run a remake is probable but in the immediate short term it just seems to have too many factors stacked against it. personally I'd rather that they finish The First and then look at a remake so we could potentially have a longer (50eps?) series that fleshes some things out more fully. But hey, thats just me.

Good points.

As much as a longer remake is appealing, we've kinda already got additional material that fleshes things out more fully. Novelizations aside, Macross chronicle, especially in the history sections, has done just that.

I agree that more on top of that is better, but we're in agreement that the main roadblock (and the reason why we're not getting more OVAs etc.) is Kawamori-san himself. He's in very high demand.

... and I'm sure that as much as he wants to do more Valkyries, sometimes his ideas for new series don't fit very well with Macross (he himself said in an interview, that even he didn't want to have naked pilots in Macross - something that, if memory serves, he got out of his system with Aquarion (or one of the other pre-Macross F series)).

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I would rather see an alternative universe of the original Macross. Brings in new fans. Doesn't ruin the originals. And Yamato will make more money from us.

Though I would also like to see a Macross series where the leading pilot is a hot lesbian. :p

Edited by Omegablue
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I would settle for the whole thing done in modern cgi style, like used in the final fantasy film. It would have to be a shot for shot scene for scene copy though, no newstyle mecha that way Hummed Gawld could market it as Robotech, once they had chopped it up to match their original.

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While I don't want to see a remake, I'd also be up for a side story OVA set during Space War One.

Graham

I would rather see an alternative universe of the original Macross. Brings in new fans. Doesn't ruin the originals. And Yamato will make more money from us.

Though I would also like to see a Macross series where the leading pilot is a hot lesbian. :p

Edit, the hot lesbian part doesnt sound all that bad either

Plus 1 guys

Edited by pfunk
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Suspension of disbelief is not a factor in game design on a mechanical level, only how a game presents itself to players. My podcast was about using repeatable and demonstrable instances of poor game design and how it is evident in the PC games and the board game. Clearly Btech is losing some popularity due to its refusal to change anything significant. To quote my co-host, it replaces fun with math.

If you wish to be dismissive of cited examples of mechanics and documented evidence then feel free to provide something to the contrary in another thread or perhaps on the blog post.

Ok let me put this in a way you can understand.

I made those videos.

You can use DOSbox to run MW1 and MW2 Mercenaries. MW4 works fine on modern systems. MW3 can be made to run with some limitations. The Playstation port of MW2 runs perfectly on an emulation program to say nothing of ports and spinoffs of the other games.

If you lack the ability to properly discuss this subject or even the subject of a Macross remake, you may wish to toddle off to Sesame Street just as you told me to do.

sorry im not smart enough to you, or lack the time to be bothered. im skilled as a mechanic, not skilled in c+++. but ill just put it into words that suit the situation

*shrug* Your experiance varies.

but just to make things crystal clear, nobody, NOBODY likes folks being condencending know-it-alls, happy to dump onto others. your opinions remain your own but for damn sure, you dont have ANY right to to be a complete ass about it. Perhaps its you that needs to revisit PBS, if for no other reason than to be reminded that you get farther in life by not being mean-spirited to others...

maybe i'll see you there, sir. seems we both need a time-out...

@graham: you're spot on about one shots & side stories. but like all things dealing with money, nobody will make something that doesnt make more Yen in return, ill gather. i still think the reason they wont touch Macross SDF is because of the stain of dishonor it has, from all the legal crap it has, from both the local legal fight for the rights in Japan, Harmody Gold's taint as well as the extended legal battles with TSC & FASA. Japan is all about the honor (and FACE value). Its not about what is know officially, its the private, back room discussions that will never see the light of day, in typical japanesse fashion when it comes to saving face... my opinion but, to me, its the one that makes the most sence...

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IMHO, the show as classic is it is, could use a reboot for two principle reasons:

1. BW to re-claim sole ownership over all the SDFM property and cut loose the Tatsunoko legal mess.

2. Rework the story into a 2 season episode count to better flesh out story threads (Max and Millia love affair comes immediately to mind).

The only way to do this is to get WB involved to buy out the international rights to the original in order to pave the way to a Live Action Macross project (which has the greatest hope of success of all the known RT properties), recover their investment from international distribution and to be the third party mediator between the Japanese license holders who will want to be part of the project. There is so much potential money to be made from a quality reboot the vendors will be killing each other to get their piece of the pie.

As for the whole fold evolution, I don't see a lot of issues with the retcon. At first I was wondering how they could reconcile the original fold "bubble" with the new fold "tubes", but then just considered that the Macross in SDFM triggered what I call a "Barrier Fold". Essentially a fold from within am Omni-directional barrier, which resulted in them loosing their fold engine entirely. The Macross was an ancient SA gunship and for all we know such tactics may have been possible, if executed correctly. ;)

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(1) Money - ... But theres nothing to indicate that BW is that progressive in its thinking. Nor that the model will actually work since younger fans will most likely just pirate the blurays, leaving the burden of supporting the franchise on the much smaller old series fanbase.

Eventhough that is a valid point, one can argue that most of the film and TV industry worldwide is facing that reality and as of yet have not figured out how to work around it.

(4) New fanbase - Speaking of which, the new fanbase is primarily young and hasnt watched the original. They place a lower emphasis on mecha and action and want more new songs and pretty looking characters and drama. A faithful remake wouldnt cater to their tastes and wouldnt make anywhere near the money that Frontier did.

I beg to differ. One of the successful aspects of the "Macross Formula" is how it caters to several demographics at once. Love Triangle caters to melodrama fans, Mecha to the gearhead fanboys and Music to the obvious demographic fanbase. However, unlike Bandai's flagship line, Macross doesn't see as many productions as Gundam does and doesn't have the market penetration MS Gundam has (for better or worse). IMHO, it is because Macross relys solely on Kawamori to produce the stories. Thus there is a production once every 3 - 5 years and that isn't enough to keep the property in the market often enough to regenerate the fan base. Perhaps that is the result of the poor reception of Macross II or other factors, but the show is too dependant on its creator, just like Star Wars is too dependant on Lucas.

(6) Kawamori - quite possibly the biggest hurdle would be Kawamori himself. He has said on several occassions that he dislikes doing the same thing over and over - to the point that he has refused to revisit the original SDFM characters despite fans hounding him for more for 30 straight years now. With this in mind, i can't see him being all that interested in wanting to remake the entire original series.

I couldn't agree more, for reasons I've already outlined. Kawamori needs to take more of a producer role in the franchise rather than it's only source of inspiration and story. He is somewhat there already, but the door needs to be openned further. The Macross universe is vast and there is so many tales that could be told in OVA format. With a steady diet of productions to keep the property in the market a new series evey 5 years would not have to spend so much time cultvating a new fanbase, but expand upon an existing like Gundam is able to.

As I noted above, in the long-run a remake is probable but in the immediate short term it just seems to have too many factors stacked against it. personally I'd rather that they finish The First and then look at a remake so we could potentially have a longer (50eps?) series that fleshes some things out more fully. But hey, thats just me.

I would have to agree with this assessment. There are plenty of stories to be told in between now and then.

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I wouldn't mind seeing the original Macross series reanimated using modern animation, but only if they kept the entire story intact.

It's kind of strange how people here don't seem to mind that they're doing a new version of the original Space Battleship Yamato, but seem to object to a new version of the original Macross.

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It's kind of strange how people here don't seem to mind that they're doing a new version of the original Space Battleship Yamato, but seem to object to a new version of the original Macross.

I think "don't care" might be more applicable to some of us.

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I think "don't care" might be more applicable to some of us.

'Some' being the key word apparently, since theres already 66 replies in the Yamato 2199 thread.

And having seen the first episode of 2199 I can offer only my opinion that it is done as near to perfect as a remake can be (for the first episode at least).

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