VFTF1 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Silly rabbit, everything HG makes is bootleg. Just look at robotech! Yeah, I know. But usually, bootleggers don't take themselves as seriously as these guys... Nope, sadly they were official merchandise Jeezus. I can't believe it. I understand the crappy Minmei carded action figure. That's just a case of them doing a piss poor job at producing something - fine. But the 'barbie' style dolls are what really makes my jaw drop. I mean it's just so blatantly obvious that they shuffled and rummaged through some crapbin of 10 cent generic production dolls and threw them in Robotech boxes. I mean - not only do they look nothing like the characters...but the clothing have NOTHING to do with the characters and are just random. Totally random. It's like... like if I took some random old toy, stuck it in a box, wrote "TrAnSfoRmErS" on the box with a magic marker and tried to convince people it was the real deal. I mean... what...why...how ? People buy this crap? Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funkenstein Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Ah man, those things make the Dragon Ball Evolution toys look like engineering marvels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFTF1 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 What I want to know is...how did those things ever get brought to market? I mean...look - at some point, the production of Robotech has some money behind it, and there were meetings, strategy sessions....There was clear evidence that cartoons with toy tie ins worked etc etc etc... And they knew what the competition had both on the TV and on the toy store shelves... And what? They came up with THOSE? It's truly hard to believe. Like...I actually wonder why they even spent any money on this? Did anybody buy these? I mean - I can only imagine them selling for random reasons like...woman walks into store looking for cheap Barbie like doll for 3 year old daughter finds this, it costs a dollar, she buys it... the end... It wouldn't even be in the "Robotech" section. It's the kind of thing you'd find at like the local gas station in a small town where sometimes they'd have some cheesy "toy" item just in case a car with a toddler pulled up and needed something for the road... I dunno.. this is just horrible. No wonder anime failed in the United States for such a long time. How were people supposed to take anime and Japanese stuff seriously and find it interesting if this is the kind ofm erchandise they got? I mean - it's not hard to understand why Transformers was state of the art when compared to something like this... heck... I mean...I remember collecting just about everything back in the 80s. TMNT, GI Joe... now, looking back, lots of those "action figures" suck compared to modern renditions like Revoltech... But if you compare even the worse generic Joe or TMNT character to those ...things... I just don't get it. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyPenguins Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Yeah, I know. But usually, bootleggers don't take themselves as seriously as these guys... Jeezus. I can't believe it. I understand the crappy Minmei carded action figure. That's just a case of them doing a piss poor job at producing something - fine. But the 'barbie' style dolls are what really makes my jaw drop. I mean it's just so blatantly obvious that they shuffled and rummaged through some crapbin of 10 cent generic production dolls and threw them in Robotech boxes. I mean - not only do they look nothing like the characters...but the clothing have NOTHING to do with the characters and are just random. Totally random. It's like... like if I took some random old toy, stuck it in a box, wrote "TrAnSfoRmErS" on the box with a magic marker and tried to convince people it was the real deal. I mean... what...why...how ? People buy this crap? Pete Yep someone actually bought that crap, hell they even had commercials for the toys, including the dolls. I've only seen the one with Dana, not Minmei. and just out of curiosity, I got on ebay to see if there were any listings for them, but didn't find any lol. However, the ugly action figures are obviously doing well wow only 1 bid, but that's bad enough someone even wants it. never mind....I found them and oh shi! Lisa Hayes doll too? someone wants to get rid of this oh heavens no.... Why does that crappy movie get better merchandise than the original series? How sad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolicon Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 you aint kidding... I've got the matchbox miriya figure and oh my god is it ugly to look at :[ it looks nothing like her at all, she doesnt even have long hair but yeah those figures are still worth a lot just because they are collectibles. They are? Dammit I shouldn't have reenacted Roy's DYRL death scene with my Matchbox Roy "Fokker". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonc Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 If you take the Matchbox debacle of back then, it seems like HG simply put as little money as possible into creating a high quality toy. Matchbox probably took what they were given, and simply did what they could with the money given. Then, if you ever here the pitch they give about the Matchbox event, they blame everything from bad market, shoddy product, and you guessed it, money. Fast forward to these days. Whenever they get enough complaints on Shadow Chronicles (things that they can't avoid), the first excuse they give comes down to the budget they had for it. I see a trend where HG will put as little forward as possible for a product, try to rake in as much as possible, then use the scapegoat of "Oh, we didn't have much of a budget to work with", as an excuse when fans complain. Heck, now that I think about it, that seems to be their M.O. for just about everything, "blame everyone and everything else." With the video games, it was the game designers taking too much liberties on their own. With the comics, it was the Waltrips bad story. With the MPCs, it was either Aoshima or some poor factory (true to a certain point, but just overall bad product design and materials). With the big boobs in Shadow Chronicles, it was the young Korean animators. Even with the distribution fiasco before Shadow Chronicles, it was the other parties wants, not their own staff (if you wanna know, pm me). I'm sure there's many other things that you guys can find, but the fact seems to be that it's never their fault for simply trying to get the most for the very least. It's a reason why Macross will always be a superior product. It seems like the difference in work ethics is the real difference between the two perspective companies that we usually talk about here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginrai Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 I don't think you understand how cartoons are created. Toy companies SPONSOR cartoons. THEY provide money, not the producers of the TV show. When Matchbox pulled out, Robotech II: The Sentinels collapsed because they decided not to help pay for the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenius Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Yeah, what Ginrai said. Shadow Chronicles had no budget because there was no toy manufacturer sponsoring the show. Of course, not every show has a toy sponsor, the sponsor could be a network or just about any company with something to gain (Cup O' Noodles anyone?) but I think Shadow Chronicles was made using completely private funding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolicon Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 That doesn't change the earlier statements that Shadow Chronicles was pooped out with a miniscule budget. And it shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonc Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 OK, I understand that now about sponsorship, but w/ Shadow Chronicles, we're not talking about a financially hurting company. We're talking about a company that brings in gobs of money through film, as well as various other product, and real estate. This is a company that has the money to do more than what they produced, with plenty of room to spare, but really did cut corners. Whether or not Matchbox was responsible for pulling out or not, the fact is, it takes two companies at work here. I'd probably want to pull out too, if I saw the way Sentinels was going. I admit, I don't know, nor do I care too much about the exact details of the Matchbox/Sentinels fallout, but with so many excuses that have come from the camp, it all just sounds the same. I'm not blaming Tommy or Steve at all, either. They work for a company, and need to keep a good image for them. So, I'm not attacking them on everything. If they say certain things the company wants them to say, or don't say, that's not on them. There have been times, however, where the excuses for things directed at the staff have been indiscriminantly directed at people that it shouldn't have. I wonder what would be the excuse if there was not Shadow Rising, or if no toys ever came out again. They're hypothetical situations, but would it be WB's fault for Shadow Rising? Would it be the fan's fault for no more toys? Just asking here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funkenstein Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 Im wondering, what market were they targeting when they made those Minmei and Lisa dolls? Girls who probably never heard of Robotech or boys who arent ashamed of girly dolls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MastaEgg Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 (edited) I don't think you understand how cartoons are created. Toy companies SPONSOR cartoons. THEY provide money, not the producers of the TV show. When Matchbox pulled out, Robotech II: The Sentinels collapsed because they decided not to help pay for the show. Merchandise pays too. Like all those awful dolls posted earlier. Edited October 3, 2009 by MastaEgg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freiflug88 Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 NO new series, HG only have these, again and again Yeah, and that is exactly the way I like it. Old Series > New Series in my book. Im wondering, what market were they targeting when they made those Minmei and Lisa dolls? Girls who probably never heard of Robotech or boys who arent ashamed of girly dolls? Are you suggesting there weren't any female fans of Robotech back in the 80s? That had to have been several. Besides, if your a young female sci-fi fan in America with dreams of becoming a star ship captain are you seriously going to choose James T. Kirk over Roy Fokker? As for the boys. If they weren't ashamed of openly watching an 80s action cartoon for the plot and drama maybe they weren't ashamed of girly dolls? Or maybe the dolls were just considered erotic for their time before the ecchi PVC figures they sell today became so readily available? In other news Topless Robot is having a Greatest Nerd Theory Contest on the best nerd theory "to explain away a plot hole or obscure some shitty fact about their favorite series." Needless to say I hope to see many amusing theories on just what Protoculture is by Robotech fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einherjar Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 I think I have a very bad quality Matchbox figure of Max somewhere in my closet. Does that mean someone will pay handsomely for it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whamhammer Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 Im wondering, what market were they targeting when they made those Minmei and Lisa dolls? Girls who probably never heard of Robotech or boys who arent ashamed of girly dolls? I've seen the video they gave to prospective retailers for Rtech toys in 85 before the shows release (came as part of the box set I got, along with sentinels ep 1) . They did specificaly target girls for a fan base due to the idea that there were many female characters in the show that would be considered "role-model" or "heroin" types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whamhammer Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 OK, I understand that now about sponsorship, but w/ Shadow Chronicles, we're not talking about a financially hurting company. We're talking about a company that brings in gobs of money through film, as well as various other product, and real estate. This is a company that has the money to do more than what they produced, with plenty of room to spare, but really did cut corners. Whether or not Matchbox was responsible for pulling out or not, the fact is, it takes two companies at work here. I'd probably want to pull out too, if I saw the way Sentinels was going. I admit, I don't know, nor do I care too much about the exact details of the Matchbox/Sentinels fallout, but with so many excuses that have come from the camp, it all just sounds the same. I'm not blaming Tommy or Steve at all, either. They work for a company, and need to keep a good image for them. So, I'm not attacking them on everything. If they say certain things the company wants them to say, or don't say, that's not on them. There have been times, however, where the excuses for things directed at the staff have been indiscriminantly directed at people that it shouldn't have. I wonder what would be the excuse if there was not Shadow Rising, or if no toys ever came out again. They're hypothetical situations, but would it be WB's fault for Shadow Rising? Would it be the fan's fault for no more toys? Just asking here. That does seem to be a re-occuring theme over there. Especially when a customer/fan has a complaint, it seems that things get brought around to the customer/fan not knowing anything on how a movie/show/website/toy is made and they have unrealistic expectations. You can explain some expectations as unrealistic or ridiculous, but that many??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonc Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 I think I have a very bad quality Matchbox figure of Max somewhere in my closet. Does that mean someone will pay handsomely for it? Perhaps. I have several of Max, Rook, and one of the others, and they've sold pretty well. I wouldn't say you can quit your job, but I was gettiing about $12-$15 for each. Not too bad for a fugly toy that doesn't look like the characters. The only figures that came out decently seems to be the larger figures and some of the enemy ones (for the most part). The bioroid figure I have was probably the best one, since that figure wears a mask. Their battlepods and Officer battlepod weren't too bad as well, considering they were meant for young kids. If only I could link you some of the commercials showing off the dolls. They were pretty damn funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFTF1 Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 Needless to say I hope to see many amusing theories on just what Protoculture is by Robotech fans. You assume they know it to be a plot hole... Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeyondTheGrave Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 (edited) Huzzah!!! VFTF1 is back!!! No is doesn't make sense that HG would fight for merchandise rights without a way to show off the merchandise. Unless years ago when they first copyrighted Macross they were trying to go after M7 and all other series after that. Locking BW in a contract that they would have to fulfill even if HG did a horrible job handling each subsequent series. I was going to make an analogy simplifying your question/idea but i couldn't work out all the details. So.... *ahem* THE ROBOTECH MOVIES ARE BEING MADE EVRYTHING YOUS SAY IS WRONG SETO AND YOU TWO VFTF1 YUO BOTH WILL BE BANDED WHEN I BECOME OWNEER AN MODERATOR OF THIS SITE ! STEVE YUN WENT TO SHECAAGO UNDER THE PRIMEYES TO DISCUSS THE ROBOTECH MOVIE AND HELP BRING THE OHLIMPICS THEIR , WITH TTHE OFFERING BEING ROBOTECH THEMED OHLIMPICS THE OHLIMPIC COMITTY DOES NOT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE MISSING!!! I'M KNOW THIS BECAUSE IAM PRIVVY TO SUCH INFORMATION SETO BEFORE YOU RESPOND YOU HVE PROOF OR IT BE A LIE!! HEHEHE *turns brain back on* Anyone interested in this? Edit: Let's lighten the mood around here; how about a little Robotech Hip Hop? http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=_ndVqlyewtI My ears and eyes burn from that. Edited October 3, 2009 by BeyondTheGrave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freiflug88 Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 (edited) You assume they know it to be a plot hole... Pete Ahhh don't be such a kill joy. Not all Robotech fans are THAT stupid and hopefully there will be at least one protoculture theory to laugh at. I did consider posting my own BS protoculture theory for the lawls though, but I think I might just post my nerd theory on how to kill Alucard once and for all. Edited October 4, 2009 by Freiflug88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funkenstein Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 Just consolidate it all , like I did. It doesnt have to make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Protoculture Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 I had 3 Sentinel Paperbacks I have owned for twenty years. Thought about selling them but when I checked prices on Amazon they were starting at 1 Penny. Decided to donate them instead. Am I going to hell for this? WHAT? ONLY 3 OUTTA 5? Harghhh, & you dare calling yerself a dedicated RT fan? Now, did you skipped the RT revered Bible that is EOTC & the REAL testament that is being revised into movie format that is RTSC? You're condemned to the purgatory of everlasting dead-end corner of hell in Newspace forever Re-Shaping EOTC for eternity!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 WHAT? ONLY 3 OUTTA 5? Harghhh, & you dare calling yerself a dedicated RT fan? Now, did you skipped the RT revered Bible that is EOTC & the REAL testament that is being revised into movie format that is RTSC? You're condemned to the purgatory of everlasting dead-end corner of hell in Newspace forever Re-Shaping EOTC for eternity!!!! Does he end up married to Minmay in the time bubble, too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freiflug88 Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 Does he end up married to Minmay in the time bubble, too? No he didn't marry Minmay in the time bubble. I was actually one the three lucky guys that married Minmay after the SDF-3 crashed on my homeworld of Tirol, a long time ago in a galaxy far far away. You see many people seem to conveniently forget that we Tirolians or "Robotech Masters" as Robotech fans like to call us are triumvirates so there are always three of us do everything together, and yes that includes doing everyone's favorite Macross Madanna, Minmay. Of course our kooky "Love Square" didn't exactly jive with Macek's family values of Robotech so they were censored out of the Robotech novels and a single Tirolian was conveniently written in to marry Minmay and father Zor. Heaven forbid Robotech fans see the sweet innocent girl that saved humanity from absolute destruction at the hands of evil aliens with a song be seen as a whore by marrying 3 alien studs at once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beltane70 Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 This is disappointing, Pizza The Hut seems to be unbanned over at RT.com. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 This is disappointing, Pizza The Hut seems to be unbanned over at RT.com. Well, they clearly need SOMEONE to root out the Macross Purists and other undesirables, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWolf Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 Who? (shows his ignorance RT.com forum) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moly_Sigang Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 No he didn't marry Minmay in the time bubble. I was actually one the three lucky guys that married Minmay after the SDF-3 crashed on my homeworld of Tirol, a long time ago in a galaxy far far away. You see many people seem to conveniently forget that we Tirolians or "Robotech Masters" as Robotech fans like to call us are triumvirates so there are always three of us do everything together, and yes that includes doing everyone's favorite Macross Madanna, Minmay. Of course our kooky "Love Square" didn't exactly jive with Macek's family values of Robotech so they were censored out of the Robotech novels and a single Tirolian was conveniently written in to marry Minmay and father Zor. Heaven forbid Robotech fans see the sweet innocent girl that saved humanity from absolute destruction at the hands of evil aliens with a song be seen as a whore by marrying 3 alien studs at once. I think this was part of Carl Macek's idea of making the Robotech Universe circular. This also gives an explanation as to why the Zentradi are affected by Minmei's singing, because she's supposed to be the 'mother' of the Tirisian and Zentradi races and her songs are like lullabies for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 I think this was part of Carl Macek's idea of making the Robotech Universe circular. This also gives an explanation as to why the Zentradi are affected by Minmei's singing, because she's supposed to be the 'mother' of the Tirisian and Zentradi races and her songs are like lullabies for them. So... wait... if Minmei is the mother of the Zentradi and Tirolan races...and her songs are like lullabies for them, doesn't that mean she's the mother of a bunch of alien masochists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFTF1 Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 I think this was part of Carl Macek's idea of making the Robotech Universe circular. This also gives an explanation as to why the Zentradi are affected by Minmei's singing, because she's supposed to be the 'mother' of the Tirisian and Zentradi races and her songs are like lullabies for them. That sure makes more sense than the general idea that artificially manufactured humanoids were isolated from culture, but since culture is ingrained in human nature, Minmei's songs (and the erotic attraction of her femininity) revived it. I know this probably sounds kind of geeky, because for the lay person, BOTH story lines are "far out" - but personally, I think the original Macross story line is a lot less random. Robotech's story line seems to be random - like it's obvious they keep having to come up with convoluted explanations for why elements from three completely different anime don't fit with one another. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funkenstein Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 I know this probably sounds kind of geeky, because for the lay person, BOTH story lines are "far out" - but personally, I think the original Macross story line is a lot less random. Robotech's story line seems to be random - like it's obvious they keep having to come up with convoluted explanations for why elements from three completely different anime don't fit with one another. Pete Sort of like how X-Files turned out, right? X-Files was notorious for shoddy story arcs because it was made up as the went along. I would say the same affliction is exhibited by Robotech continuity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freiflug88 Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 So... wait... if Minmei is the mother of the Zentradi and Tirolan races...and her songs are like lullabies for them, doesn't that mean she's the mother of a bunch of alien masochists? No. Minmei was never the mother of the Zentradi or Tirolan races. According to Carl Macek himself, the Tirolans were found to be exactly like humans and had a modern civilization similar to humanity's when the SDF-1 crashed in 1999 when Rick Hunter and the SDF-3 found Tirol after being sucked through time. Then Minmei hooks up with a Tirolian scientist and they have Zor as a child. After Zor grew up and discovered protoculture part of the Tirolian population is corrupted into the evil Robotech Masters. These newly formed evil Robotech Masters then decide to enslave the giant Zentradi that were aboard the SDF-3 into their slave army. Never mind what the Zentradi are still doing sitting around in Tirol waiting to be enslaved what must have been 20 years after the time loop now that Zor has grown up and corrupted Tirol with his discovery of protoculture. Carl Macek was clear though that the Zentradi who traveled through the time loop in the SDF-3 become their own ancestors and that they were never created or born as a race by the Robotech Masters or anyone else, they were simply there as fate would have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einherjar Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 So we're the monsters that started this whole mess. Great ending. By the time the novels were finished, how long had the writers and Carl Macek been working on it? Maybe they should have avoided the grand epic feel and twists and ended it sooner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moly_Sigang Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 I think in the EOtC, they have this Grandfather Paradox where Minmei hooked up with a Zor clone and their son became the original Zor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azrael Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 To paraphrase a famous captain, the last thing I want is a visit from Temporal Investigations when I walk out of this thread.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts