Macross Frontier Episode 21 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[MisaForever]

I understand this, but after Zero's ending... well... you know...

and where is Grace hiding?

VA, your avatar is hilarious! I laugh everytime I see it. Where did you get it?

[RedWolf]

Alto being poisoned by Temzin's Us or Them crap and not listening to Ranka makes me want Basara to come in with his VF-19P, screw his firing solution while fighting Vajra till he Listens.

[MisaForever]

Alto being poisoned by Temzin's Us or Them crap and not listening to Ranka makes me want Basara to come in with his VF-19P, screw his firing solution while fighting Vajra till he Listens.

No no, no Basara. BASARA IS GONE!!! NO MORE!!! ARGH!!! See, I'm joking here, being playful, not serious.

But I still don't like Basara

[Final Vegeta]

Now that Ranka is gone, we'll have several episodes

Sadly, this doesn't seem the case

FV

[Gubaba]

No no, no Basara. BASARA IS GONE!!! NO MORE!!! ARGH!!! See, I'm joking here, being playful, not serious.

But I still don't like Basara

You should watch the whole series before you judge...much like Sheryl, he's MEANT to get on your nerves at the beginning.

Unfortunately, it takes A LOT longer before he gets less annoying, and some people never get through the eye of that needle...

Morte generally (i.e. not directed at MisaForsworn), I have to say that although I like Sheryl more, the "Ranka hate" seems overblown and bizarre to me. She may or may not get Alto, but IMHO, to criticize her actions in this episode shows a lack of understanding of what the point of this (and every) Macross series is.

[MisaForever]

You should watch the whole series before you judge...much like Sheryl, he's MEANT to get on your nerves at the beginning.

Unfortunately, it takes A LOT longer before he gets less annoying, and some people never get through the eye of that needle...

Morte generally (i.e. not directed at MisaForsworn), I have to say that although I like Sheryl more, the "Ranka hate" seems overblown and bizarre to me. She may or may not get Alto, but IMHO, to criticize her actions in this episode shows a lack of understanding of what the point of this (and every) Macross series is.

Ok, I'll stop going off-topic.

And I agree here, I don't know where the Ranka hate is coming from. Yes, she's young, and can be annoying at times, but I still love her. She's not my favorite character but I have nothing against her. She's cute, spunky, innocent, and confused. She's done nothing wrong and has started to understand what she needs to do.

[Gubaba]

Ok, I'll stop going off-topic.

And I agree here, I don't know where the Ranka hate is coming from. Yes, she's young, and can be annoying at times, but I still love her. She's not my favorite character but I have nothing against her. She's cute, spunky, innocent, and confused. She's done nothing wrong and has started to understand what she needs to do.

Kinda funny that the KlanMeister and the Nanasist would finally bond over Ranka, isn't it? See, that just shows her power to bring opposing factions together!

[cyde01]

Seriosuly, after the deaths of thousands of people and the ensueing destruction, the only reason why one should try to understand Vajra is to figure out the best way to eliminate their asses from space, not to "understand" and live in harmony with those who seem more than willing to come and destroy your homes and kill your freinds and family any time they wish.

yeah, seriously. on top of that, alto probably heard from ozma that the vajra have absolutely no gray matter. according to leon, ai-kun isn't supposed to have the brain capacity to be able to develop a bond with ranka like it did. if it were me ai-kun would have a couple slugs in it's face.

[Kyp Durron]

I have a funny feeling that we're not going to see Alto end up with either Sheryl or Ranka. At this point, it would surprise me if it didn't turn out that way.

-Kyp

[cyde01]

Maybe Nanase will end up like Ryomou from Ikkitousen, wearing a nice eyepatch. *GASP* I'm speculating!!!! O_O

or maybe she'll end up like britai..

[VF-25S Full Armour]

Sometimes, I can only wonder why people overblow and complicate something that is rather simple but no less profound in nature. Sheryl Nome did what she had to do, what she could have done, to help Frontier in its dire hour. Ranka did what she had to do too to hopefully spare frontier from another massacre.

It doesn't take a genius or even much knowledge of the Japanese language to figure out that no matter what many reasons she has, selfish or otherwise, she did what was necessary.

The one thing about Macross that I will always cherish is the message that hatred and mutual annihilation never solves anything in the long run.

Back in WW2, millions of people of a myriad of races were massacred by the Nazis, which is at its core no different from what we saw on these 2 episodes Should we start hating an entire race and nation of people because of that even to this day? I'm not trying to bring in real world politics and all its associated insanity here, but I hope this helps to bring some war and hate mongering folks here to their senses.

A great example is the 513 (May 13th) incident in Malaysia in 1969. Things got so bad that the 2 major races were literally at each others throats i.e. physically killing each other. According to recently declassified official documents, the whole racist insanity was incited by a small, elite group of extremely rich and influential group of the race which I will not disclose for very PERSONAL gains, at the cost of both races. Whenever hatred clouds us, the Evil shall rein. That is a simple and indisputable fact of life in my experience.

Edited August 29, 2008 by VF-25S Full Armour

[beertax]

One of the truisms of life I've learned over the years is that arguing over the internet is like competing in the special olympics, so I don't want to launch a whole new thing. Suffice it to say that I am not a Ranka hater or lover - I don't post enough here to earn or deserve either title/ prejudice. I just think it's immature of Ranka to act the way she did at the end of episode 21 and clearly the writers had a brain fart when they wrote that portion in. Ppl seem to cheer for Ranka b/c she acted more assertive than before but that's not nearly enough to cover her many illogical and immature actions.

That's it for me for this episode.

[azrael]

She did leave a note for Ozma on the table. Right after you see the note next to Nanase, you see a letter on the table at her place which I guess was for Ozma, if he ever showed up back home.

[cyde01]

*sigh* umm.. to vf-25s, i think you're trying to complicate things more.. last i checked we were talking about an anime cartoon and not hatred and racism.

i don't speak for everyone here, but just to clarify, i'm not saying that the right thing for alto to do was to kill ai-kun. in fact, we have seen hints of this throughout the series leading up to this point that this (reconciliation attempt between vajra and humans)was gonna happen. what i am saying is, given the circumstances, alto's response to ai-kun is expected and understandable. it would have been extremely lame if at that scene, alto was all "ai-kun's a vajra? well jeez, i guess they're not so bad after all. sure i'll help you return ai-kun to his mummy!!" LAME. the vajra are ugly bug things that supposedly have no brains (can't be reasoned with) and they killed his friend and destroyed his hometown. just the fact that alto hesitated shooting when ranka told him to stop speaks VOLUMES about his character. if it were me, i would not have hesitated. remember, alto DOESN'T HAVE THE ADVANCE KNOWLEDGE THAT THE VIEWER HAS. this is the first time that it has even been suggested to him that the vajra can be reasoned with or can coexist with humanity. it should be obvious that it's gonna take some time for him to warm up to this idea. and while ranka's actions are courageous and bold, they are kinda rash and extreme as well. she still has a very limited memory of her past and very limited knowledge of the vajra, and yet she's gonna say goodbye and risk her life for her pet? and she expects alto to just be like "ok sure lets go!!" maybe she doesn't deserve the criticism she's gotten but she doesn't deserve praise either.

Edited August 29, 2008 by cyde01

[RedWolf]

One of the truisms of life I've learned over the years is that arguing over the internet is like competing in the special olympics, so I don't want to launch a whole new thing. Suffice it to say that I am not a Ranka hater or lover - I don't post enough here to earn or deserve either title/ prejudice. I just think it's immature of Ranka to act the way she did at the end of episode 21 and clearly the writers had a brain fart when they wrote that portion in. Ppl seem to cheer for Ranka b/c she acted more assertive than before but that's not nearly enough to cover her many illogical and immature actions.

That's it for me for this episode.

Well as the late Mikhail said Alto is an insensitive dense prick.

Only to girls mind you. Ranka asked Alto to make a leap of faith.

What did Alto do? Pull a bloody gun at Ai-kun and won't listen to Ranka's explaination.

He is so absorbed by the Us and Them mentality taught by that renegade Zentradi Temzin that he can't be reasoned with.

Ranka pulled a Akiko and just gave up. But she still loves the idiot.

Granted that Alto isn't the cream de la cream of UN Spacy like Gamlin or even perhaps Hikaru.

He is just a confussed high school teenager that won't grow up. Ranka and Sheryl are more mature than him.

[cyde01]

what i am saying is, given the circumstances, alto's response to ai-kun is expected and understandable. it would have been extremely lame if at that scene, alto was all "ai-kun's a vajra? well jeez, i guess they're not so bad after all. sure i'll help you return ai-kun to his mummy!!" LAME. the vajra are ugly bug things that supposedly have no brains (can't be reasoned with) and they killed his friend and destroyed his hometown. just the fact that alto hesitated shooting when ranka told him to stop speaks VOLUMES about his character. if it were me, i would not have hesitated. remember, alto DOESN'T HAVE THE ADVANCE KNOWLEDGE THAT THE VIEWER HAS. this is the first time that it has even been suggested to him that the vajra can be reasoned with or can coexist with humanity. it should be obvious that it's gonna take some time for him to warm up to this idea.

red wolf, just for you, i'm quoting myself.

[Gubaba]

*sigh* umm.. to vf-25s, i think you're trying to complicate things more.. last i checked we were talking about an anime cartoon and not hatred and racism.

i don't speak for everyone here, but just to clarify, i'm not saying that the right thing for alto to do was to kill ai-kun. in fact, we have seen hints of this throughout the series leading up to this point that this (reconciliation attempt between vajra and humans)was gonna happen. what i am saying is, given the circumstances, alto's response to ai-kun is expected and understandable. it would have been extremely lame if at that scene, alto was all "ai-kun's a vajra? well jeez, i guess they're not so bad after all. sure i'll help you return ai-kun to his mummy!!" LAME. the vajra are ugly bug things that supposedly have no brains (can't be reasoned with) and they killed his friend and destroyed his hometown. just the fact that alto hesitated shooting when ranka told him to stop speaks VOLUMES about his character. if it were me, i would not have hesitated. remember, alto DOESN'T HAVE THE ADVANCE KNOWLEDGE THAT THE VIEWER HAS. this is the first time that it has even been suggested to him that the vajra can be reasoned with or can coexist with humanity. it should be obvious that it's gonna take some time for him to warm up to this idea. and while ranka's actions are courageous and bold, they are kinda rash and extreme as well. she still has a very limited memory of her past and very limited knowledge of the vajra, and yet she's gonna say goodbye and risk her life for her pet? and she expects alto to just be like "ok sure lets go!!" maybe she doesn't deserve the criticism she's gotten but she doesn't deserve praise either.

Oh.

Well then, I agree.

[magnuskn]

You remind me of the Animesuki forum

Now, that isn´t something nice to say about your friends over there, Mike. ^^ At least not in reference to that obvious troll-post.

Edited August 29, 2008 by magnuskn

[Shun]

*sigh* umm.. to vf-25s, i think you're trying to complicate things more.. last i checked we were talking about an anime cartoon and not hatred and racism.

i don't speak for everyone here, but just to clarify, i'm not saying that the right thing for alto to do was to kill ai-kun. in fact, we have seen hints of this throughout the series leading up to this point that this (reconciliation attempt between vajra and humans)was gonna happen. what i am saying is, given the circumstances, alto's response to ai-kun is expected and understandable. it would have been extremely lame if at that scene, alto was all "ai-kun's a vajra? well jeez, i guess they're not so bad after all. sure i'll help you return ai-kun to his mummy!!" LAME. the vajra are ugly bug things that supposedly have no brains (can't be reasoned with) and they killed his friend and destroyed his hometown. just the fact that alto hesitated shooting when ranka told him to stop speaks VOLUMES about his character. if it were me, i would not have hesitated. remember, alto DOESN'T HAVE THE ADVANCE KNOWLEDGE THAT THE VIEWER HAS. this is the first time that it has even been suggested to him that the vajra can be reasoned with or can coexist with humanity. it should be obvious that it's gonna take some time for him to warm up to this idea. and while ranka's actions are courageous and bold, they are kinda rash and extreme as well. she still has a very limited memory of her past and very limited knowledge of the vajra, and yet she's gonna say goodbye and risk her life for her pet? and she expects alto to just be like "ok sure lets go!!" maybe she doesn't deserve the criticism she's gotten but she doesn't deserve praise either.

good point about Alto and his reactions, i totally agree, although this is the first time i find myself cheering for Brera when he knocked Alto off

Alot of people do not understand why Ranka was hesitant or refusing to sing - to act out her part in luring the Vajra to their doom, n why she would risk her life for Aikun. you guys are forgetting that Ranka has links with the Vajra, emotional links that work both ways. She feels their pain, had some kind of understanding with the Queen Vajra (although too briefly), and probably felt more. Her gut feeling is telling her what she's doing is WRONG, ever since the first time they used her in battle, and i'm glad she finally decides for herself to do what she thinks is right.

And yeah, i agree Ranka deserves a better man, Sheryl too. Alto is supposed to be the leading male role yet i still do not see why i should cheer for him, it feels weird.

Regarding animation quality, most of ep 21 is good, but some are below average. The part where Alto, Ranka and Luca was about to fly off to Island 3, i didn't even know it was Luca standing there - i thought that was just a random guy .

In island 3, i guess the D-Eater is located in one of LAI's facilities, so we can expect to find some vf-25 there, but i was surprised when we see our guys get their valks seemingly from nowhere, and KK fighting in her Q-Rea in space all of a sudden - i'd say the flow isn't too well-planned, perhaps it's better if they show the vf-25 in the background when Luca & co was getting to the D-Eater, or have a line scripted to explain how they're getting their gears...

As for Valkyrie Girl Klan Klan, it might not make any sense, but its kinda fun, a fan service for old time Macross fans, and funnier when they animate her launch off similar to EVA (even though i'm not a Eva fan ). time for you guys to show off your Valk Girl models!!

Overall, its an awesome episode, very emotional ending with a very nice song.

PS > In the past, anime seldom gets split into seasons like Code Geass or Gundam 00, but i heard the new idea is to get revenue for sales of dvds? So who knows maybe we can get season 2 for Frontier, although very unlikely because we'd probably have heard about it by now. Also, according to kresphy, there are only 25 eps, and 25 was the number i remember seeing very early when the series was starting.

[Master Dex]

I just finally watched the raw, waiting for subs still. I liked this episode a lot, pulled at the strings just as much as 20. I feel really sorry for Klan, I can't imagine what that feels like, hope I never will have to find out.

There was a lot of mecha eye candy to see here, including Valkyrie Klan as I am calling her. I am guessing the Fast packs were modified to fit on flight suit areas and she controlled them differently, it doesn't need to be complicated or magic to work. I am going to be taking some screen shots of this episode for sure.

I kind of understand Ranka's reason for leaving, but I'm not going to get involved in the whole Ranka or Alto hate thing that is going on. I easily understand Alto's reasoning for wanting to shoot Ai-kun on sight, Klan would definitely have done the same. True Alto needs to eventually realize that we can probably co-exist with the Vajra, but he just isn't read for that, they killed one of his best friends and many others. It will take time guys (by the end of the series specifically).

Note: Edit: nevermind

Edited August 29, 2008 by Master Dex

[Valkyrie addict]

VA, your avatar is hilarious! I laugh everytime I see it. Where did you get it?

haha! I'm glad you enjoy, when I first saw it i almost fell to the floor, I found it on a car forum I regularly visit

here's the original that I didn't had to scale down if you want it...

[MisaForever]

haha! I'm glad you enjoy, when I first saw it i almost fell to the floor, I found it on a car forum I regularly visit

here's the original that I didn't had to scale down if you want it...

That is pure ROFFLE

[rubi]

I finally had time to watch it, rawiser .....

This is a bit late but she leaved this early in the serie ? I would have think it will occur not right after the attack by the vajra...

She looks more like a 17 years old girl here than the previous episode. Her look in the V-F27 and her decision to quit Frontier showed it. At last!!

Plus, she didn't bother to ask Ozma's permission or Alto's advice.

Luca changed in a good way too. Looks like this puppy cheeks from the beginning had their purpose ...

Ai-kun transformation gave me pokemon vibes

I thought Klan will be ubiquitous in this episode but I was wrong. For the end, Ao no Ether with the dramatic plot was well made!

But isn'it strange she keeps seeing or thinking of Brera when she recovers her memories but hasn't made the link yet ? We are in the 21 episode and since episode 7 they keep moping their relationship even though it was too obvious since the beginning. I already said it but VF Messiah, this is a long drag....

Is he really nothing over than her brother's cyborg ? There is something wrong here...

[freya]

Brera may not be ranka's brother.

[Sumdumgai]

The only thing I have to criticize Alto about in this episode is not having trained with his side-arm more. He should have been able to put two bullets into Ai-kun before Brera knocked him on his ass.

I like Ai-kun, though I liked Ai-kun better as a small furry green thing or the furry ray.

[Super Ostrich]

I finally had time to watch it, rawiser .....

This is a bit late but she leaved this early in the serie ? I would have think it will occur not right after the attack by the vajra...

She looks more like a 17 years old girl here than the previous episode. Her look in the V-F27 and her decision to quit Frontier showed it. At last!!

Plus, she didn't bother to ask Ozma's permission or Alto's advice.

Luca changed in a good way too. Looks like this puppy cheeks from the beginning had their purpose ...

Ai-kun transformation gave me pokemon vibes

I thought Klan will be ubiquitous in this episode but I was wrong. For the end, Ao no Ether with the dramatic plot was well made!

But isn'it strange she keeps seeing or thinking of Brera when she recovers her memories but hasn't made the link yet ? We are in the 21 episode and since episode 7 they keep moping their relationship even though it was too obvious since the beginning. I already said it but VF Messiah, this is a long drag....

Is he really nothing over than her brother's cyborg ? There is something wrong here...

Ranka did not seek permission from Ozuma because she already knew he is presumed missing (from Loeh’s speech during the funeral).

And she did ask Alto to go with her when they meet at the park. That proved impossible because Ai-kun jumped in at the scene before she can finish the asking and Alto showed hostility. She did not plan to go with Brera at the beginning.

[whispo]

Brera may not be ranka's brother.

Earth is banana shaped

[s-girl]

It was just last episode that his best friend was offed by just one of the buggers who looks like Ai-kun. For him the Vajra have been so far mercyless, nameless bugs... what did you expect him to do? He didn´t have the benefit of getting a vision of Ranshe Mei from the Vajra queen, and Ranka so far hadn´t told anybody.

are you kidding me? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

As far as I am concerned, Ranka acted completely immature. I've just glossed over the episode but as far as I know hundreds of people died in very horrible ways, incl. mutual friend Michael -gored and sucke out into space-, in the process blowing up an entire ship filled with people's homes, and her reaction is to allow Brera to pound Alto and go away to save her pet Vajra whose cousins just caused all that terrible mess not 24 hours ago? And you blame Alto for his reactions which would be completely normal as an adult? This is perhaps the one time I can agree with an anime character's cardboard reaction of crying out a person's name... in disgust and disbelief, I hope.

Seriosuly, after the deaths of thousands of people and the ensueing destruction, the only reason why one should try to understand Vajra is to figure out the best way to eliminate their asses from space, not to "understand" and live in harmony with those who seem more than willing to come and destroy your homes and kill your freinds and family any time they wish.

You guys need to relax. I'm evaluating Alto on the basis of the entire series so far. The most complex reaction I"ve seen from him other than screaming out names and running off into action like a hot-headed young guy is his scene with Sheryl in Episode 20. While I like him, he's not exactly a saint.

Perhaps because I'm not a native Japanese speaker and inferred this more by context, but I think he persisted with wanting to shoot Ai-kun even after Ranka was trying to explain things. This pretty much is in line with his behavior in nearly every episode in this series. (Is there an episode where he doesn't get mad and yells at someone? )

It's not wrong at all to instinctually want to defend yourself and others, but Alto seems to not listen to people and is quick to cast judgement. This is my issue with him. Until he learns how to think first, he can not protect Ranka or anyone. In that way, I agree with Brera.

Edited August 30, 2008 by s-girl

[grss1982]

You remind me of the Animesuki forum

Me too.

In fact, IIRC two people were banned there recently for their "heated exchange" in the Episode 20 or Episode 21 thread. I hope it does'nt get ugly here in MW.

[ComicKaze]

Earth is banana shaped

And the WTF-1 has to be the SDF-1!!!

[Morpheus]

And the WTF-1 has to be the SDF-1!!!

Calm down people, we can discuss thing with our head inside a bucket of cold water .

I think since MF is nearing its final, some plot./story/char development are cut. Actually we can see more character development and story in this episode alone, like:

- Alto and co mourning for Michel and his burial (dammit, why did all Macross heroes never got a proper burial).

- Some stuff explaining why Ozma and Cathy decided to hide

- How did Klan manage to wear the FAST pack and her sortie using the Q-reas after defending island 3 with her fellow zentran

- Grace and Leon smirking

- Ranka surprised to found that Ai-kun is a Vajra and decided to help it.

- Sheryl screentime.

- Why Alto and Luca VF-25 is in island 3 instead in Quarter hangar.

- Evacuation of island 3 including the hippocows and the farmer.

- Brera and his remote control VF-27

- More Mecha porn.

This episode will be good if it can be split into 2 or 3 episode. Hell, even DBZ got more dialog and plot for one fight scene

Ok, I need some air now (takes head out of bucket of cold water).

[Xeros]

Warning

Fake GG is out

[Max is a Genius]

Brera may not be ranka's brother.

Who cares, he's a cyborg and can pilot a VF in remote while multitasking !!! you don't get any cooler then that !!!

[Graham]

Screen caps of the VF-171 with extra weapons from the next ep preview.

Not sure whether these classify as FAST packs or not yet, as they have a sort of jury-rigged bolt-on, temporary look about them.

Graham

[dreamweaver13]

I love this episode! (not as much as ep20, but this one still has moments. ranka leaving and confessing FTW). I don't see how a lot of the early posters expressed disappointment and confusion. (is it because i only watched the raw and something got lost in translation?). the plot seemed to flow naturally for me. and things that might not make sense; if there were, i felt that all would be revealed in due time.

or then again, i might just be biased by this point. like gubaba, i've reached a point where the series has taken me in, hook line and reaction warhead. whatever they do (short of an off-screen death for sheryl, ranka or alto) would probably have me as a fan by this point.

as for this episode! haha, looks like a lot got that EVANGELION vibe when Klan went up to attack. eva with a firm ass!

much of the drama of this episode falls squarely on the final scene, whre ranka meets alto. since my japanese is very limited, can anyone tell me what ranka exactly told ranka as to why she's leaving? or even if she didn't tell alto, why did she leave? Is it because she wants to protect frontier? she's guilty? or she want to find a peaceful solution?

in any case, seems she made her decision even before talking with alto, since she left messages to nanase and ozma. did i get that right?

If so, this looks like a call-out to alto for when he stood her up. "ok, alto THIS is how you tell someone that you're going away for a while. not that crrap you pulled on me with michael (RIP)!"

gotta watch the subs! can't wait!