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Macross Frontier Episode 6 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*


azrael
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Episode 6 Rating  

205 members have voted

  1. 1. How would you rate Episode 6?

    • Positive (Prelude to action?!?!?!?!?!)
      188
    • Neutral/No Opinion
      10
    • Negative ("Bye Bye Sheryl"? More like "Good Riddance")
      7


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I don't think the RVF-25 next to the Q-Rea in that shot was Luca's as mentioned. Probably a spare.

Someone had posted some magazine scans somewhere that showed Lucca's RVF-25, and what looked like a VF-25 in Lucca's scheme (it didn't have the radar dish or other Elint gear). I'm guessing that it was that that we saw in the episode to the right of the Q-raus.

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Just a guess, but I think the Ex-Gears are already in the cockpit and only attach at a command from the pilot, i.e. if he chooses to eject.

BTW, I love the fast start up time of the VF-25. Obviously, it's not using a Microsoft OS. LOL!

Graham

MAC OS or Linux Perhaps? :ph34r::lol:

BTW, did the episode showcase the cockpit of VF-25? Was wondering if the VF-25 had the YF-19-like cockpit. :mellow:

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BTW, did the episode showcase the cockpit of VF-25? Was wondering if the VF-25 had the YF-19-like cockpit. :mellow:

Sorry, we still can't see below their torsos. Maybe next week. Although, from earlier views, it appears that the 25's cockpit goes back something similar to the VF-11's (or later model VF-1, if you prefer) with the wrap-around imaging only available in Battroid.

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MAC OS or Linux Perhaps? :ph34r::lol:

BTW, did the episode showcase the cockpit of VF-25? Was wondering if the VF-25 had the YF-19-like cockpit. :mellow:

We are getting a little technical here and slightly off topic but I think that the cockpit for the YF-19 was the coolest one that we have seen so far in macross, especially the screens beneath the pilots legs that we have NOT seen in Frontier. (Bit of a backwards step in technology I would have thought.

Kind of reminds me of the slip in technology in the Mechwarrior games. In Mechwarrior 2 you had a light amplification (infra-red) mode for when it was dark. In Mechwarrior 3 your mech had SPOTLIGHTS instead. Talk about an inexcusable backwards step in technology.

Taksraven

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The below the pilot view screens were a matter of total convenience by virtue of the way the 19 transforms. In both the 19 and 25 the nose tilts up and forms the middle torso of the battloid, with the pilot tilting forward into the area below him or her. I think that the EX-gear system takes up so much visual space that much of the extra screens would be blocked in the 25. Besides with the Holos they can display any view they need, hell who's to say that the whole inside of the 25's battloid cockpit isn't a holographic projection.

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so, if they do so many project, how come they haven't improve somehow their quality... and what exactly makes the studios in Korea drop in quality?? is it the animators talent or the quality control?

Few factors that have been a point of discussion in Japan for years. Most Korean studios are mostly inexperienced artists in sweatshops, probably working in various projects at the same time. They are considerably cheaper to employ than Japanese studios, and not much can be done about QC. The price u pay is what you get in terms of quality after all. This is a problem for Japan as well as new aspiring artists do not get the exposure they need to make anime as the employment of offshore animation studios become more commonly accepted. That said, not all Korean studios are crap. About 80% of america's cartoons are animated in Korea anyway. But the good ones are about the same price as those in Japan anyway so they won't bother with the good ones.

And also there's sometimes more than one animation firm employed to do one project since most "budget" animation firms are small and can't handle too much load. This is where consistency becomes a problem and why sometimes in anime, characters look different in certain episodes.

.

Kind of reminds me of the slip in technology in the Mechwarrior games. In Mechwarrior 2 you had a light amplification (infra-red) mode for when it was dark. In Mechwarrior 3 your mech had SPOTLIGHTS instead. Talk about an inexcusable backwards step in technology.

Taksraven

Mech 3 still had Night Vision though. I think Thermal imaging was just a "cool lets add it in" feature in Mechwarrior 2 since a real thermal imaging should look something like what the Predator sees....not exactly useful in a battle full of hot sweltering battlemechs. You'll probably just see RED everywhere and can't make out what's what. :lol:

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We are getting a little technical here and slightly off topic but I think that the cockpit for the YF-19 was the coolest one that we have seen so far in macross, especially the screens beneath the pilots legs that we have NOT seen in Frontier. (Bit of a backwards step in technology I would have thought.

Kind of reminds me of the slip in technology in the Mechwarrior games. In Mechwarrior 2 you had a light amplification (infra-red) mode for when it was dark. In Mechwarrior 3 your mech had SPOTLIGHTS instead. Talk about an inexcusable backwards step in technology.

Taksraven

Good point, I did like the concept of panoramic view. Essentially like in the Gundam series. Actually, in terms of capabilities, I am a bit surprised that the technology didn't exist for the VF-22, since they had that incredibly small bubble cockpit that just didn't make much sense to me.

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Good point, I did like the concept of panoramic view. Essentially like in the Gundam series. Actually, in terms of capabilities, I am a bit surprised that the technology didn't exist for the VF-22, since they had that incredibly small bubble cockpit that just didn't make much sense to me.

The VF-22, had an almost all glass canopy, unlike the small top bubble and two small front glass panels on the YF-21's canopy.

Graham

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Mech 3 still had Night Vision though. I think Thermal imaging was just a "cool lets add it in" feature in Mechwarrior 2 since a real thermal imaging should look something like what the Predator sees....not exactly useful in a battle full of hot sweltering battlemechs. You'll probably just see RED everywhere and can't make out what's what. :lol:

Can't remember that feature in Mech 3. (But then again I can't seem to remember ever owning some droids :lol:) I am more certain that you definitely had to use spotlights in the "Pirates Moon" expansion disk. They did it to make it interesting but it instead made some levels of the game very frustrating.

Back onto Macross Frontier, what is wrong with the eyes of the Purple-haired Bridge Bunny. It looks like she has black eyeballs and white pupils/iris. Whats going on with that. She looks like the scientist who created the Pin Point Barrier in the original macross series.

Anybody else noticed this? Anybody else know why???????

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Watched both the Gattai and AiA I-Z subbed versions. I enjoyed the episode more with being able to understand the dialogue, than I did watching the raw version.

On second and third viewing, the character animation didn't seem as bad as it did the first time I watched the episode. Still hope the regular studio is back on art duties from now on. Anybody knows which studio(s) did the animation for eps 1-5?

Gattai does seem to be improving in the quality and accuracy of their subbing and I actually prefer their sub this week to AiA's.

Graham

I still contend it has bounced back and forth. Episode 4 was the same studio in my eyes as episode 6. The character designs look the same (2D and flat). I think Episode 4 just sneaked past a lot of you guys because of the abundant backgrounds and heavy CG sequences...the normal character designs were the same bad style as they were in episode 6. I think that as the budget comes and goes depending on how much CG they need to do, they allot animation here and there in the schedule and it will go back and forth throughout the series. I noticed early on that episode 4 was the worst one in terms of character design and animation long before I saw episdoe 6.

Episode 4 had very "off" looking characters (Look at Klan Klein's fullsize face) that seemed to lack accentuation/roundness. All of SMS (especially the bridge bunnies) were drawn in the same "ugly" style in episode 4 as episode 6. Episode 5 was completely different and of much higher quality and detail.

Episode 4 has actually been the worst overall in many instances.

episodeshr1.jpg

I'm sure that the bigger episodes in terms of stories do logically get the higher budgets and we'll see that throughout Frontier that the "filler" episodes will go to the cheaper studios.

Sheryl looks like crap at the end of episode 4 when she trips Alto. Just a 2D face with two holes for nostrils, I'd never go on a date with that! But she magically becomes more rounded and refined and beautiful in time for Stardate. Then she goes back to ugly in episode 6.

Edited by ComicKaze
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Ironically, I was sitting here rewatching bits of ep4...thanks a lot, Morpheus :p ...and while it didn't look bad in retrospect, a lot of the middle character animation could be called "flat." Moved quite nicely, though...which might have helped a lot, since by comparison this episode had a lot of relatively static shots...

EDIT: thanks for posting that first shot, ComicKaze...Klan looks like a Muppet. :o Moving on...

post-7714-1210672030_thumb.png

post-7714-1210672265_thumb.png

post-7714-1210672274_thumb.png

post-7714-1210672367_thumb.png

Edited by Bill C.
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Back onto Macross Frontier, what is wrong with the eyes of the Purple-haired Bridge Bunny. It looks like she has black eyeballs and white pupils/iris. Whats going on with that. She looks like the scientist who created the Pin Point Barrier in the original macross series.

Anybody else noticed this? Anybody else know why???????

I noticed it. Why? Because the character designer designed the character that way.

If you want a better explanation than that well...uh....oookay.... Her eyes are like that due to a special technology discovered in...er...1842....by demons....used by crack law enforcement agencies to...er...I don't know....fight aliens?

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I still contend it has bounced back and forth. Episode 4 was the same studio in my eyes as episode 6. The character designs look the same (2D and flat). I think Episode 4 just sneaked past a lot of you guys because of the abundant backgrounds and heavy CG sequences...the normal character designs were the same bad style as they were in episode 6. I think that as the budget comes and goes depending on how much CG they need to do, they allot animation here and there in the schedule and it will go back and forth throughout the series. I noticed early on that episode 4 was the worst one in terms of character design and animation long before I saw episdoe 6.

Episode 4 had very "off" looking characters (Look at Klan Klein's fullsize face) that seemed to lack accentuation/roundness. All of SMS (especially the bridge bunnies) were drawn in the same "ugly" style in episode 4 as episode 6. Episode 5 was completely different and of much higher quality and detail.

Episode 4 has actually been the worst overall in many instances.

episodeshr1.jpg

I'm sure that the bigger episodes in terms of stories do logically get the higher budgets and we'll see that throughout Frontier that the "filler" episodes will go to the cheaper studios.

Sheryl looks like crap at the end of episode 4 when she trips Alto. Just a 2D face with two holes for nostrils, I'd never go on a date with that! But she magically becomes more rounded and refined and beautiful in time for Stardate. Then she goes back to ugly in episode 6.

I was putting together something similar duing the past 2 weeks, but after people started getting sensitive on the subject I dropped it :p

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Ironically, I was sitting here rewatching bits of ep4...thanks a lot, Morpheus :p ...and while it didn't look bad in retrospect, a lot of the middle character animation could be called "flat." Moved quite nicely, though...which might have helped a lot, since by comparison this episode had a lot of relatively static shots...

EDIT: thanks for posting that first shot, ComicKaze...Klan looks like a Muppet. :o Moving on...

Wow nice, I take the 2nd gif. Thanks alot Bill C, you're the man. B))

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I still contend it has bounced back and forth. Episode 4 was the same studio in my eyes as episode 6. The character designs look the same (2D and flat). I think Episode 4 just sneaked past a lot of you guys because of the abundant backgrounds and heavy CG sequences...the normal character designs were the same bad style as they were in episode 6. I think that as the budget comes and goes depending on how much CG they need to do, they allot animation here and there in the schedule and it will go back and forth throughout the series. I noticed early on that episode 4 was the worst one in terms of character design and animation long before I saw episdoe 6.

<snip>

Well whadaya know....i'm not crazy after all. ^_^

I wanted to do something like those comparison shots but couldn't be arsed. Good job, ComicKaze. 4 Definately made me cringe and when I started complaining in the quality drop.

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I still contend it has bounced back and forth. Episode 4 was the same studio in my eyes as episode 6. The character designs look the same (2D and flat). I think Episode 4 just sneaked past a lot of you guys because of the abundant backgrounds and heavy CG sequences...the normal character designs were the same bad style as they were in episode 6. I think that as the budget comes and goes depending on how much CG they need to do, they allot animation here and there in the schedule and it will go back and forth throughout the series. I noticed early on that episode 4 was the worst one in terms of character design and animation long before I saw episdoe 6.

Episode 4 had very "off" looking characters (Look at Klan Klein's fullsize face) that seemed to lack accentuation/roundness. All of SMS (especially the bridge bunnies) were drawn in the same "ugly" style in episode 4 as episode 6. Episode 5 was completely different and of much higher quality and detail.

Episode 4 has actually been the worst overall in many instances.

episodeshr1.jpg

I'm sure that the bigger episodes in terms of stories do logically get the higher budgets and we'll see that throughout Frontier that the "filler" episodes will go to the cheaper studios.

Sheryl looks like crap at the end of episode 4 when she trips Alto. Just a 2D face with two holes for nostrils, I'd never go on a date with that! But she magically becomes more rounded and refined and beautiful in time for Stardate. Then she goes back to ugly in episode 6.

Excellent screen caps, ComicKaze! Looking at them gave me an idea: Do you guys think that maybe in the scenes featuring complex mechanical designs, the animators might possibly slack off a bit on character design? I haven't gone back and reviewed many scenes, but it seems as though much more effort is put into the rendering of the characters in scenes where they are the featured attraction. On the other hand, it seems as though in the scenes where the characters share screen time with mechs or complex set designs, the mechanical designs are given more focus than the characters.

I wonder if there are two teams of animators; one specializing in tech/mechanical design, and one specializing on character design? Anyone know?

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Picking up on an earlier post, I believe Luca has switched from his RVF-25 to a standard VF-25 with his same signature green paint scheme. We've seen it in the recently-releaseed lineart:

http://macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?act=...st&id=52900

It's also been mentioned that Luca's fighter has the capacity to control a trio of Ghost fighters. Well, take a closer look at what he's polishing at about 18:07. It ain't a VF-25, and it ain't a fold booster, and he calls it "Johann". ;)

Mark

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Back onto Macross Frontier, what is wrong with the eyes of the Purple-haired Bridge Bunny. It looks like she has black eyeballs and white pupils/iris. Whats going on with that. She looks like the scientist who created the Pin Point Barrier in the original macross series.

Anybody else noticed this? Anybody else know why???????

Dr Chris J Takatoku in the original Macross had the same type of eyes.

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Yeah Ep 4 was QUALITY anime.

As for the differences between the 3 eps.. The issue is distance from viewpoint, "Hey the audience doesn't need fine detail when the face is nearly 100-150 meters away.", and a lack of QC'ing. It's all stuff that usually gets touched up on the post TV releases.

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You know, while I love looking at Klan Klan, I can't help but try to avoid this thread now since it seems half of you are doing nothing but complaining about the animation. Can we talk about aspects of the story? Characters? Plot? Anything except the quality of the animation? They're doing US a favor in making this show, can we stop crapping all over them? :p

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I wonder if there are two teams of animators; one specializing in tech/mechanical design, and one specializing on character design? Anyone know?

Considering that the two areas require different sets of highly specialized skills, I'd say yes. Not all 2D animators are CG animators, and visa-versa. Also, it takes much more time to do decent CG than many seem to suspect, and combining 2D and 3D CGI together is a large task, requiring yet another skillset in itself. It would be highly unlikely that they would be attempting both aspects of production with the same people working both jobs.

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Well whadaya know....i'm not crazy after all. ^_^

I wanted to do something like those comparison shots but couldn't be arsed. Good job, ComicKaze. 4 Definately made me cringe and when I started complaining in the quality drop.

and I still can't believe you happily watch gundam 00 and then complain about the things you do about MF. :lol:

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Picking up on an earlier post, I believe Luca has switched from his RVF-25 to a standard VF-25 with his same signature green paint scheme. We've seen it in the recently-releaseed lineart:

http://macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?act=...st&id=52900

It's also been mentioned that Luca's fighter has the capacity to control a trio of Ghost fighters. Well, take a closer look at what he's polishing at about 18:07. It ain't a VF-25, and it ain't a fold booster, and he calls it "Johann". ;)

Mark

If he gets shot down in Ep 7, then it is entirely possible he will be forced to fly a standard VF-25. They may have spare parts for a RVF-25, but not necessarily a whole one to spare...

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A note about...cockpits

I think the most important reason why the wrap-around imaging monitor is not used in the VF-25 Fighter mode is likely cost. It's probably much cheaper to avoid animating the fighter cockpit because this is a television series after all and most of the time the characters will be shown on screen piloting the VF-25 in fighter mode. For an in-universe explanation, cost may also be a factor. The NUNS can afford to blow money on wrap-around imaging monitors for the VF-171 but a private company like SMS may look for the most practical piloting method that is also the most cost effective. The extensive internal holographics of the VF-25 cockpit seem more than adequate to assist the pilot in situational awareness and the wrap around imaging system is only really necessary for the Battroid mode. Course, this may be a stretch rationalizing this much, but it makes sense nonetheless.

The VF-22 cockpit does feature a wrap-around imaging system, just not as extensive as the YF-19 system. The VF-22 cockpit has a little bit more than a 180 degree wrap-around imagining system which is mostly limited to the inside of the cockpit canopy (though to the lower rear left and right sides of the pilot there is some more veiwable area). What little we see of the VF-22 cockpit suggests a return to extensive holographics more so than the YF-19, so perhaps cockpit holographics was a trend in the next generation fighters.

and I still can't believe you happily watch gundam 00 and then complain about the things you do about MF. :lol:

I agree, though this doesn't just apply to Gundam. Macross Frontier is being raked over the coals more than any other show for visual quality, but I suppose that's what Macross Frontier gets for being the best show :)

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I agree, though this doesn't just apply to Gundam. Macross Frontier is being raked over the coals more than any other show for visual quality, but I suppose that's what Macross Frontier gets for being the best show :)

I can agree that because of how much Macross is revelled, it tends to be scrutinized more but still.... it's perfect in so many ways, to see people who call themselves "fans" raking it over the coals as you say is simply uncalled for. :)

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To be fair, the complaints aren't exactly unwarranted. Yes, the show remains gorgeous compared to a lot out there, but that's not to say the 2D animation hasn't been a little spotty in places. The directing, incredibly detailed backgrounds, and excellent (for a tv series) CG tend to pick up the slack of the lacking 2D work.

Also, fans tend to complain the loudest because they care the most. I doubt anyone complaining about the 2D animation in episode 6 is thinking, "Gee, if this animation doesn't pick up soon I'm going to stop watching!" They'd simply like the 2D to look a bit nicer. As much as I agree that people should enjoy something as great as Frontier, there's also merit in pointing out that it's really not perfect, and could be better. I realize a show needs to budget, but you can only let one aspect suffer so much before it's detrimental to the show as a whole, even if everything else looks spectacular. It's all about balance.

I still suspect, though, that this episode was done on the cheap to put more of the budget towards what is looking to be an action packed upside next week, or maybe even several action packed episodes. If that's the case, I can certainly live with that.

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no one is denying that the animation hasn't had problems... but problems worse than shows like GitS? Or Escaflowne? Or Gundam 00? Bad enough where we have to talk about it every episode? The animation in MF has been better than any of the animation for some current shows like Transformers or Spice and Wolf.

The animation problems have been pointed out and yeah, there's merit in that.. but does evrey other post need to be about the same thing? Over and over again?

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I don't think the RVF-25 next to the Q-Rea in that shot was Luca's as mentioned. Probably a spare.

What's cool is that apparently he can control two Ghost fighters which he has also nicknamed, one being Yohan. DRAGOONS anyone? This might be the coolest part of Frontier yet. A couple of support craft like in Raiden Fighters. :D

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I understand where you're coming from Radd and there's nothing wrong with being critical of the show, especially since most of us are so familiar with Macross it borders on obsession. But frankly I see Macross Frontier being held to a different standard, much like eugimon has said. It's almost as if the incredible CGI work has become, in many ways, a scapegoat for the show. In fact, we're very close to some fan posting crap like "Macross Frontier wins points for it's great CG work, but the 2D character animation is lacking" when in fact Frontier has maintained pace with the 2D animation of it's contemporaries and surpassed them with the CG work. But like I said, I think that impressive CG has created this imaginary benchmark where some fans are expecting more from the 2D work in Frontier than what they expect from other shows. I'm afraid that as impressive as Macross Frontier is above all the other anime shows, it does have limits.

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I personally find most of the animation issues comes up in the connecting shots and filler shots... which at least at the animation studio I was working at were kind of the de-stress scenes. Basically the important scenes get alot of effort and the fillers/montage scenes just don't get the same effort, even from the same animator.

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It's the deep inhale before the plunge, as they say, and I can't wait for more. Episode 6 of Macross Frontier begins placing the pieces for what is sure to be a major confrontation in episode 7. When we left off in episode 5 the Macross Frontier had received a distress call from the Macross Galaxy fleet. The Vajra have launched a major strike against them and the Frontier fleet has decided to launch a rescue.

Our characters spend some personal time with each other before the inevitable conflict and we sense some trepidation from Alto. It's clear he's growing feelings for Sheryl but it's also clear he's not able to detach from his fondness for Ranka. While he tries to keep her at a distance, Alto is still going out of his way to maintain a connection with her, a choice that will most likely come back to haunt him when Ranka imposes her feelings upon him. Ranka for her part has demonstrated her commitment to being a singer and when she returns to her older brother Ozuma, it's with a talent scout in hand asking Ozuma's permission to represent the young Ranka. With credibility at her side, Ozuma has little choice but to reluctantly accept Ranka as a growing star. Sheryl decides to continue her farewell concert in the face of the horrifying news of the attack on her home fleet, but we know that she's already made a connection with Macross Frontier and it's likely to be her home before long.

Though there is little in the way of character development, this episode is mostly an affirmation of the connection between all the established characters. The last part of the episode features Sheryl's final concert intercut between the launch of the Macross Quarter and its rescue fleet. It makes for a truly emotional and moving finale filled with tension for the terrible conflict to come. Macross as a show is known for being rather lethal with characters and if the original is any indication, we may see some of our heroes pass before long. For now, we're left with the impending danger that awaits them and the sense of resolve Ozuma hopes to inpire in his brave warriors.

Next up, episode 7. Deculture!

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It's the deep inhale before the plunge, as they say, and I can't wait for more. Episode 6 of Macross Frontier begins placing the pieces for what is sure to be a major confrontation in episode 7. When we left off in episode 5 the Macross Frontier had received a distress call from the Macross Galaxy fleet. The Vajra have launched a major strike against them and the Frontier fleet has decided to launch a rescue.

Our characters spend some personal time with each other before the inevitable conflict and we sense some trepidation from Alto. It's clear he's growing feelings for Sheryl but it's also clear he's not able to detach from his fondness for Ranka. While he tries to keep her at a distance, Alto is still going out of his way to maintain a connection with her, a choice that will most likely come back to haunt him when Ranka imposes her feelings upon him. Ranka for her part has demonstrated her commitment to being a singer and when she returns to her older brother Ozuma, it's with a talent scout in hand asking Ozuma's permission to represent the young Ranka. With credibility at her side, Ozuma has little choice but to reluctantly accept Ranka as a growing star. Sheryl decides to continue her farewell concert in the face of the horrifying news of the attack on her home fleet, but we know that she's already made a connection with Macross Frontier and it's likely to be her home before long.

Though there is little in the way of character development, this episode is mostly an affirmation of the connection between all the established characters. The last part of the episode features Sheryl's final concert intercut between the launch of the Macross Quarter and its rescue fleet. It makes for a truly emotional and moving finale filled with tension for the terrible conflict to come. Macross as a show is known for being rather lethal with characters and if the original is any indication, we may see some of our heroes pass before long. For now, we're left with the impending danger that awaits them and the sense of resolve Ozuma hopes to inpire in his brave warriors.

Next up, episode 7. Deculture!

Just out of curiosity, are you obligated to make a long, drawn-out summary of every episode or are you just having fun? :lol:

Edited by MisaForever
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