The computer and electronics super geek superthread...

[Ishimaru]

I was disappointed too. ATI really messed up on the HD 2900 XT. It is slower than an GeForce 8800 GTS 640 MB and draws more power. So the GeForce 8800 GTX 768MB will still be king for awhile. Hopefully the mainsteam cards will fair better. I was looking forward to a card that has HDMI with audio on the card versus having to run a separate audio cable to the card for HDMI sound out.

The drivers are only immature, it's pretty good that it can even compete with the GTX, in some tests like this one it beat it. And for the price how can you go wrong?

It's not a bad card, and as for Lost Planet demo, Nvidia developed the GFX design for it, it explains why the R600 is getting awful frame rates on it.

Don't think it's a bad card, just wait for some driver releases for improvements and you'll see.

[HoveringCheesecake]

I don't really like ATi's drivers. Whenever I try and get the Catalyst control center versions it tries to tell me that I don't have the dot net framework or whatever... but I do. Then again, I'm fairly certain that my 9800 Pro is fried because it won't let me change the refresh rate on my monitor - at all. It's stuck at 60 Hz. Ouch.

[Hurin]

The drivers are only immature

And you base this on. . . what?

it's pretty good that it can even compete with the GTX

Ummm, it doesn't compete with it. It provides appreciably lower performance. Why is this "pretty good" when it's arriving a full six months later and you could have had better performance six months ago?

in some tests like this one it beat it.

It beats it by less than two frames per second in a very specific test while demonstrating inferior image quality (as pointed out by the reviewer multiple times).

And for the price how can you go wrong?

How about by buying a huge card that draws more power and performs slower than the competition in order to save a mere hundy or two?

Don't think it's a bad card, just wait for some driver releases for improvements and you'll see.

Again, you base this assertion on what? Wishful thinking? This is the song we always hear when a new hardware release is underwhelming. Seldom does it pan out to the extent that the rose-colored glasses-wearing wishful thinkers would have us all believe.

I really don't understand how people get so invested in these sorts of things. When the 8800 came out, we had people (with no actual facts at their disposal) saying: "That's ridiculous! Look at its power draw! Look at how big it is! I'm waiting for ATi! They're not idiots like this!" Now that ATi has demonstrated that they are indeed worse "idiots" than nvidia, we've got the same people saying: "It's not that bad. . . just wait for drivers!"

It stretches credulity. Not to mention the patience of people watching these debates and just trying to determine what's fastest today so that we can make our purchasing decision and move on without getting so emotionally invested that we actually feel the need to spin things due to some bizarre affection for a video card brand name.

[savior_myst]

Sorry for the dumb question but if you were to replace an old Intel P4 processor with a new core 2 duo is it necessary to retain the same core speed ( say replacing a P4 2.8GHZ with a Core2Duo also at 2.8 GHZ ) ?

Thanks, Appreciate the input i still dont quite understand the core speed transition from single to dual core.

Edited May 25, 2007 by savior_myst

[MilSpex]

What do people think of the Sony Type R master? I`m thinking of getting one mostly coz it just looks badass but (if you can read some Japanese) are the specs even slightly worth the price?

http://www.jp.sonystyle.com/Product/Vaio/Rm/rm52dl9.html

[azrael]

Sorry for the dumb question but if you were to replace an old Intel P4 processor with a new core 2 duo is it necessary to retain the same core speed ( say replacing a P4 2.8GHZ with a Core2Duo also at 2.8 GHZ ) ?

No. Just be sure your motherboard supports a C2D.

... are the specs even slightly worth the price?

*cough*....Dear god no.

[Duke Togo]

*cough*....Dear god no.

Wow, that's funny. I don't know about the monitor, but the rest of that you can build yourself for under a grand.

Edited May 25, 2007 by Duke Togo

[MilSpex]

^Thanks!

[CoryHolmes]

Ever since I got my XBR2, the centre speaker of my sound system has a persitant, low-level hum that's just loud enough to be irritating. Moving the speaker away from the TV doesn't seem to do any good, nor does moving the wires around in the back.

Any thoughts?

[Ishimaru]

And you base this on. . . what?

I didn't have to base it on anything, it was just released, thats pretty much self-explanatory.

Nvidia had their G80 for a longer period of time and they managed to update the drivers for better performance.

In this case ATI just released their card. Now that it is released they can stop worrying about hardware issues and start working on the drivers for improved performance, they gather their data from customers and reviewers on how to find the issues and fix them in release to the next driver update.

It's the same thing with Nvidia.

[azrael]

Ever since I got my XBR2, the centre speaker of my sound system has a persitant, low-level hum that's just loud enough to be irritating. Moving the speaker away from the TV doesn't seem to do any good, nor does moving the wires around in the back.

If there is nothing else that you think could be causing any problems, it might be the speaker. Have you tried a different speaker for the center speaker? It could also be the sound system.

[HoveringCheesecake]

Do any of you guys have any laptop experience?

If so, which manufacturer should I go for: Dell or Toshiba? I've heard good and bad things about both.

[azrael]

If so, which manufacturer should I go for: Dell or Toshiba? I've heard good and bad things about both.

I find Dell easier when looking for drivers (just enter in your service tag and the list of drivers for that series of laptop is there).

Otherwise, both are about the same in my book.

[Hurin]

I didn't have to base it on anything, it was just released, thats pretty much self-explanatory.

So, you're basically admitting that --though you're saying "just wait, you'll see"-- you have absolutely nothing upon which you're basing such a confident statement? Wouldn't a more appropriate statment be: "Maybe drivers will help? I guess we'll have to wait and see. . ."

Nvidia had their G80 for a longer period of time and they managed to update the drivers for better performance.

Really? Missed that. My 8800GTXes have performed essentially the same since release day aside from bug fixes and stability. Performance never went appreciably higher.

The point is that there is no precedent for a video card increasing its performance by an appreciable amount (especially not enough to push it up a notch in the performance ranking) merely through driver updates.

As for spin-doctoring. . . this is my favorite example. Note this post below it.

Generally, when people need to start screaming: "It'll be okay! Wait for drivers to make this card great!" You know that there is a problem with the card and that it hasn't met expectations. And those who are bizarrely personally invested in the "video card wars" and unwilling to come to grips with reality are resorting to spin and wishful thinking.

Best,

H

[Hurin]

Ever since I got my XBR2, the centre speaker of my sound system has a persitant, low-level hum that's just loud enough to be irritating. Moving the speaker away from the TV doesn't seem to do any good, nor does moving the wires around in the back.

Any thoughts?

This may sound like advice from 1987, but maybe you should look for a "ground loop isolator" if your audio signal is analog and being upmixed to surround, it might still be useful.

But, are you sure the TV is the catalyst? What happens to the sound if you unplug your TV or have it turned off?

As Azrael said, it's possible that your speaker has gone bad. But generally an analog speaker won't hum. . . it'll just sound terrible.

H

[CoryHolmes]

But, are you sure the TV is the catalyst? What happens to the sound if you unplug your TV or have it turned off?

As Azrael said, it's possible that your speaker has gone bad. But generally an analog speaker won't hum. . . it'll just sound terrible.

H

I'm reasonably certain it's the TV, as I don't recall that hum being there before I bought it. The hum is there whenever I turn the speakers on, regardless of the TV itself being on or off.

EDIT:

Though upon further inspection, it appears to be the speaker itself since the hum changes volume as the main system volume is changed, be it up or down.

Edited May 30, 2007 by CoryHolmes

[Macross73]

Freind of mine just bought a new system with Vista from Dell

he says that IE is slow or doesnt load at all . is this common?

[emajnthis]

The XTX is months away. And what they've got out now doesn't even match or beat Nvidia's tier three card (tier two if you don't count the 8800gtx Ultra). So, what are the hopes that a die shrink and higher clocks will approach the speeds of the 8800GTX (ultra or not)? I'd say pretty slim. And, even were it to do so, I wouldn't call a card that shows up nearly a year late to the competition with only matching performance a "rival."

I never said the ATI was a better card by any means, but ATI is known (throughout pretty much all of its history) of releasing mediocre cards first that barely meet up to its competition and then releasing the highest end card that ends all benchmarks. Which is why it's at least worth waiting for to see what their highest end card can produce, in which case i'll have no problem putting together my quad-core rig (i'm building a quad because i have a family member at intel that gets me chips at cost i.e. 800-1000 dollar chips for barely over 200 bucks). If i were building a rig at this very moment of course i would purchase NVidia cards, that's a no brainer; but i don't have the resources at this time to build a rig and won't for about another month anyway which is why for me it is not painful to wait.

[Max Jenius]

I totally agree. I was a LONG time AMD and ATi user, and when it came down to my new build, I went where the quality was.

I've always said that, when one brand is better... they're better. I'm not going to sacrifice performance just to support my "favorite brand." That's why I don't understand those idiots saying "Ford rules!" or "Chevy rules!" because honestly I wouldn't know the difference if you took their emblems off.

[Duke Togo]

That's why I don't understand those idiots saying "Ford rules!" or "Chevy rules!" because honestly I wouldn't know the difference if you took their emblems off.

Well that's an easy one, they're both crap. I wouldn't own one if it was given to me.

[azrael]

I've always said that, when one brand is better... they're better. I'm not going to sacrifice performance just to support my "favorite brand." That's why I don't understand those idiots saying "Ford rules!" or "Chevy rules!" because honestly I wouldn't know the difference if you took their emblems off.

Brand loyalty is highly over-rated. I go with whatever works for what I plan to do. In my case, Intel was better so I went Intel for my personal box. My budget-box, which I use for testing, doesn't need much. And heck, it's a budget-box, so AMD is my choice for that.

As for ATI vs. Nvidia...I've had marginal success with ATI drivers. I think I've only had problems with Nvidia drivers once so that left an impression with me.

Freind of mine just bought a new system with Vista from Dell

he says that IE is slow or doesnt load at all . is this common?

It shouldn't be slow....specs please?

[Knight26]

Nevermind

Edited May 30, 2007 by Knight26

[kensei]

I have a pair of good 5.1 surround sound speakers that were made obsolete by the fact that my tablet PC does not have the audio jacks to accommodate for the speakers and the subwoofer.

I have this special slot in my Tablet. i think it's called a PCIMA slot. It's next to my SD Card slot. I don't know much about this, but i know that you can put in upgrades through this slot. I see it being used for nothing else in the future, so i was wondering if there was a special sound card that can be installed there?

Edited May 30, 2007 by kensei

[azrael]

I have a pair of good 5.1 surround sound speakers that were made obsolete by the fact that my tablet PC does not have the audio jacks to accommodate for the speakers and the subwoofer.

I have this special slot in my Tablet. i think it's called a PCIMA slot. It's next to my SD Card slot. I don't know much about this, but i know that you can put in upgrades through this slot. I see it being used for nothing else in the future, so i was wondering if there was a special sound card that can be installed there?

You can use a PCIMA card in there, but there aren't too many cards on the market these days. Consider going with a USB sound card:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16829102174

[kensei]

Thanks A! Man, and that is a lot cheaper, I didn't know you can have USB Sound Cards.

How's the quality? Or is it just the same? I think that it would probably be best to buy a Creative, they are known for the Soundblaster live cards being one of the performance leaders right?

[azrael]

How's the quality? Or is it just the same? I think that it would probably be best to buy a Creative, they are known for the Soundblaster live cards being one of the performance leaders right?

I have never used those things so I won't know. I imagine they are as good the PCI counterpart in terms of sound quality, which, by these days isn't much. Low-end motherboard audio probably outclasses the SB Live these days.

Reading some of the reviews make me suspect that since it is using an USB-interface, it will be prone to data bandwidth problems, i.e. don't run anything complicated and expect hiccups.

[Gunbuster]

M$ just announced "surface"

http://www.microsoft.com/surface/

watch all 3 videos

alot of these we have seen during their prototype stage, in those video, it has it in "real environments"

I just wonder how much these will go for? ;;

[azrael]

M$ just announced "surface"

http://www.microsoft.com/surface/

watch all 3 videos

alot of these we have seen during their prototype stage, in those video, it has it in "real environments"

I just wonder how much these will go for? ;;

The price tag is $5,000 - 10,000. For the average user, this is beyond luxury, which is why average users are not the target, yet.

Before introducing Milan to a broad consumer market, Microsoft is targeting market segments, such as leisure/entertainment, hospitality and retail environments. The product won't be offered in full production until next year, but Milan's first customers -- Harrah's Entertainment Inc., Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide Inc. and T-Mobile USA Inc. -- should deploy the first computers by year's end.

For the consumer, I can see this going toward the home entertainment market. A coffee table replacement with some applications for the TV. I'll give it about 3 years before we see it coming to the consumer level.

[Ishimaru]

So, you're basically admitting that --though you're saying "just wait, you'll see"-- you have absolutely nothing upon which you're basing such a confident statement? Wouldn't a more appropriate statment be: "Maybe drivers will help? I guess we'll have to wait and see. . ."

Really? Missed that. My 8800GTXes have performed essentially the same since release day aside from bug fixes and stability. Performance never went appreciably higher.

The point is that there is no precedent for a video card increasing its performance by an appreciable amount (especially not enough to push it up a notch in the performance ranking) merely through driver updates.

As for spin-doctoring. . . this is my favorite example. Note this post below it.

Generally, when people need to start screaming: "It'll be okay! Wait for drivers to make this card great!" You know that there is a problem with the card and that it hasn't met expectations. And those who are bizarrely personally invested in the "video card wars" and unwilling to come to grips with reality are resorting to spin and wishful thinking.

Best,

H

I'm not sure were your going at with that statement.

What's the point for AMD/Nvidia to release drivers if it's barely going to give any performance improvements and fixes?

Now this I don't get.

Your saying that your $1.2K cards aren't able to perform any better then they are now due to the nature that they are top of the line, and can cut through run every software, benchmark and video game like butter.

What kind of performance increase are you looking for if it can't be noticed?

[myk]

Freind of mine just bought a new system with Vista from Dell

he says that IE is slow or doesnt load at all . is this common?

It's probably just bogged down with a bunch of needless 'apps in the startup menu...

[David Hingtgen]

If you bought a PC, it probably tries to load 400 programs at startup, in the background, making EVERYTHING slow. It's 90% of the reason I'm building my own next time.

[Macross73]

It's probably just bogged down with a bunch of needless 'apps in the startup menu...

If you bought a PC, it probably tries to load 400 programs at startup, in the background, making EVERYTHING slow. It's 90% of the reason I'm building my own next time.

I'll have to ask him Monday whats sitting on the desktop and whats running in the background

Thanks

[kensei]

http://www.tweakxp.com/performance_tweaks.aspx

Try the above.

I did all of that with the exception of the visual adjustment for windows functions.

My computer now loads much faster and is not bogged down.

Plus tell your friend to reduce his headache and get Firefox 2 instead.

[JB0]

Plus tell your friend to reduce his headache and get Firefox 2 instead.

Or Seamonkey.

http://www.mozilla.org/projects/seamonkey/

[Hurin]

I'm not sure were your going at with that statement.

What's the point for AMD/Nvidia to release drivers if it's barely going to give any performance improvements and fixes?

Now this I don't get.

Your saying that your $1.2K cards aren't able to perform any better then they are now due to the nature that they are top of the line, and can cut through run every software, benchmark and video game like butter.

What kind of performance increase are you looking for if it can't be noticed?

I'm not looking for performance increases via drivers. That's what all the R600 fans are doing. And, again, I think they're kidding themselves.

I have no idea what's confusing you. Exactly what do you think drivers are? The hardware dictates speed. The drivers can only get in the way through inefficient or bad coding. If your drivers are already decent, then you're not going to see any real increases in speed no matter how much "better" they make them.

99% of driver updates are for bug releases, stability issues, or to add new functionality aside from raw performance. When they do list "performance increase" in the driver release notes, it's usually modest at best. . . and normally it's a "per game" fix. Meaning, it's not an overall or universal increase.

I don't know where you're confused. But it's seems pretty cut-and-dried to me. Drivers rarely increase performance (speed) substantially. The cries of "Wait for better drivers! They'll be faster!" are rarely borne out and are usually only heard at times when a disappointing hardware release has been made and people are unwilling to accept reality or concede that their prior fanboy rantings were in error.

H