The computer and electronics super geek superthread...

[Ishimaru]

Not to be of any bother or anything.

But those 8800GTs are selling like hotcakes, I saw them available on Newegg around 2 today and just look atem.

[azrael]

Not to be of any bother or anything.

But those 8800GTs are selling like hotcakes, I saw them available on Newegg around 2 today and just look atem.

Considering that it's priced less than the 8800GTS, compromised specs between the GTS and GTX, the 8800GT is the perfect replacement for a 8800GTS. Heck, I would probably sell my 8800GTS for a 8800GT. It has a lower profile, smaller die-size and has a lower TDP. The 8800GT is now more worth it to the gamer with a budget.

[eriku]

Thanks to everyone for the Apple advice. Now I have another question...

The fan on my wife's Toshiba Satellite laptop died. Other than the fan the thing runs perfectly. It's a 2004 I believe. Since it's got the built-in shut-down feature so it doesn't melt itself, it'll run for a good 20 minutes or so at a time before it gets too hot. Since this is a relatively unacceptable way to operate a computer, does anyone know of any good way to fix or replace the fan? I've been told the best way to fix it is with a sledghammer, but I don't want to accept that just yet. Certainly there has to be a way to get in there and replace the one component that's gone bad? I wouldn't expect it to be easy since everything is packed in such a small space, but if it's something I could do with a few simple tools and patience I'd be willing to try it.

Basically I don't want to be buying TWO new laptops in the near future.

[mikeszekely]

Thanks to everyone for the Apple advice. Now I have another question...

The fan on my wife's Toshiba Satellite laptop died. Other than the fan the thing runs perfectly. It's a 2004 I believe. Since it's got the built-in shut-down feature so it doesn't melt itself, it'll run for a good 20 minutes or so at a time before it gets too hot. Since this is a relatively unacceptable way to operate a computer, does anyone know of any good way to fix or replace the fan? I've been told the best way to fix it is with a sledghammer, but I don't want to accept that just yet. Certainly there has to be a way to get in there and replace the one component that's gone bad? I wouldn't expect it to be easy since everything is packed in such a small space, but if it's something I could do with a few simple tools and patience I'd be willing to try it.

Basically I don't want to be buying TWO new laptops in the near future.

You can try taking it to a local mom & pop style computer store. I know all the ones around me do repairs, even on notebooks. Or, you could see if Toshiba can repair it. Unfortunately, both of those options are usually very expensive. A friend of mine had a problem with an $3000 HP desktop replacement-style notebook he had been given as a gift just over the warranty period, and it was so expensive to repair that he seriously considered removing the processor and building a new desktop around it. Then again, my MacBook was one of the first batch that had that random shutdown issue as well, and according to the work order, it would have been around $300 to fix, which I guess isn't too bad (luckily, my MacBook was in its warranty period).

The other option, if you're sure it's the fan (although I wouldn't be, as it sounds a lot like the problem my MacBook had, and if I remember correctly they replaced the heatsink and a wire, then issues a firmware update to allow the fans to spin faster), would be to buy the part(s) you need and try to repair it yourself. Lots of places sell parts for laptops; I found this site relatively quickly. The problem with this option, though, is that working on laptops is a lot more complicated than opening up a desktop tower and poking around inside. As konimon mentioned earlier, sometimes even replacing a laptop's hard drive is a chore. While laptops often have little hatches or doors that let you get to the RAM, getting actually inside to the mother board often involves removing the screen and keyboard first. If you're comfortable taking electronics apart, you'll save a lot of money, but if you're at all unsure of what you're doing, get a pro to do it or pick up that sledgehammer.

Incidentally, the differences between laptops and desktops are why I go with Mac laptops and Windows desktops. I like to poke around inside a desktop, replacing parts and servicing them myself as needed, and I like the uniqueness that comes with building your own, but (unless you count Hackintoshes) you're stuck with Windows, Linux, or one of the other Unix derivatives (and while I have a healthy respect for Linux, lack of unified standards make adding new software a chore). But aside from upping the RAM or replacing the hard drive, you're usually stuck with a laptop the way you bought it, and since it's better to have pros work on them, I buy Macs and take them to the Genius Bar if they have problems.

[eriku]

You can try taking it to a local mom & pop style computer store. I know all the ones around me do repairs, even on notebooks. Or, you could see if Toshiba can repair it. Unfortunately, both of those options are usually very expensive. A friend of mine had a problem with an $3000 HP desktop replacement-style notebook he had been given as a gift just over the warranty period, and it was so expensive to repair that he seriously considered removing the processor and building a new desktop around it. Then again, my MacBook was one of the first batch that had that random shutdown issue as well, and according to the work order, it would have been around $300 to fix, which I guess isn't too bad (luckily, my MacBook was in its warranty period).

The other option, if you're sure it's the fan (although I wouldn't be, as it sounds a lot like the problem my MacBook had, and if I remember correctly they replaced the heatsink and a wire, then issues a firmware update to allow the fans to spin faster), would be to buy the part(s) you need and try to repair it yourself. Lots of places sell parts for laptops; I found this site relatively quickly. The problem with this option, though, is that working on laptops is a lot more complicated than opening up a desktop tower and poking around inside. As konimon mentioned earlier, sometimes even replacing a laptop's hard drive is a chore. While laptops often have little hatches or doors that let you get to the RAM, getting actually inside to the mother board often involves removing the screen and keyboard first. If you're comfortable taking electronics apart, you'll save a lot of money, but if you're at all unsure of what you're doing, get a pro to do it or pick up that sledgehammer.

Incidentally, the differences between laptops and desktops are why I go with Mac laptops and Windows desktops. I like to poke around inside a desktop, replacing parts and servicing them myself as needed, and I like the uniqueness that comes with building your own, but (unless you count Hackintoshes) you're stuck with Windows, Linux, or one of the other Unix derivatives (and while I have a healthy respect for Linux, lack of unified standards make adding new software a chore). But aside from upping the RAM or replacing the hard drive, you're usually stuck with a laptop the way you bought it, and since it's better to have pros work on them, I buy Macs and take them to the Genius Bar if they have problems.

I wouldn't bet my life on it, but the reason I think it's the fan is because the fan was making a kind of strained sound for a couple of weeks, and then the fan stopped spinning completely. The shutdown is from the laptop overheating and then shutting itself down before it gets too hot. One thing we've done is put ice packs under the thing when my wife has to write a paper or something, and that will keep it running for over a half hour at a time.

I found the exact fan I need on Sparepartswarehouse.com....but even with the $40 fan I'm not confident that I can just get in there and swap it. I can find my way around the inside of a PC just fine but as you said, a laptop is a whole different ball of wax. Still, I'm thinking it may be worth at least trying if the only other option is the sledgehammer. I'm not going to spend hundreds of dollers to have a pro or Toshiba fix it because I'd just as soon put that money towards a whole new machine.

Anything else I should know about the guts of a laptop before I crack that sucker open? IF/when I get the fan, my plan is to sit somewhere with minimal dust, lots of light, no clutter to lose anything in, and then just make sure the battery is out and start removing screws and mapping their locations. Maybe even take some photos along the way in case I need reference of where something used to be.

[azrael]

The problem with this option, though, is that working on laptops is a lot more complicated than opening up a desktop tower and poking around inside. As konimon mentioned earlier, sometimes even replacing a laptop's hard drive is a chore. While laptops often have little hatches or doors that let you get to the RAM, getting actually inside to the mother board often involves removing the screen and keyboard first. If you're comfortable taking electronics apart, you'll save a lot of money, but if you're at all unsure of what you're doing, get a pro to do it or pick up that sledgehammer.

To build on that, I have worked on laptops and they are a nuisance. The screws are generally very small (akin to eyeglass screws) and are easy to misplace. With Dell laptops, some of them have to be accessed through the keyboard and that requires a delicate hand as it is easy to damage components through that route. I haven't cracked any plastic but I've come close. I prefer to have a hatch or door to components. If I have to open a laptop up to the point where I am removing the chassis, I would weigh in getting a new laptop.

Now to the subject of the fan, something like that would require a decent amount of disassembly. If you feel up to it, go ahead and replace it yourself. Out of curiousity, what model of Toshiba is the laptop?

[eriku]

To build on that, I have worked on laptops and they are a nuisance. The screws are generally very small (akin to eyeglass screws) and are easy to misplace. With Dell laptops, some of them have to be accessed through the keyboard and that requires a delicate hand as it is easy to damage components through that route. I haven't cracked any plastic but I've come close. I prefer to have a hatch or door to components. If I have to open a laptop up to the point where I am removing the chassis, I would weigh in getting a new laptop.

Now to the subject of the fan, something like that would require a decent amount of disassembly. If you feel up to it, go ahead and replace it yourself. Out of curiousity, what model of Toshiba is the laptop?

It's a 2003/2004 (wife isn't sure when she got it) Satellite A65-S1062. If the thing had other problems I wouldn't think twice about junking it. It runs beautifully though, especially for one so old. I haven't fully decided to operate on it yet. It currently works, albeit in 20 minute spurts. If I get in there and do some meatball surgery it may not work at all. As it is we can at least use it for a back-up machine if anything were to crap out on a new one.

As for screws, I think I counted over 30 (!!) VISIBLE screws on the backside. I'm sure there are more waiting inside once the casing is off. And yes, they're several different sizes.

Out of curioisty, are there any tinker-friendly laptops out there at all, or are they just mess of compressed nightmares across the board?

Edited October 30, 2007 by eriku

[vermillion01]

Agreed, laptops are a royal pain in the a$$ to fix. I have done a few in my time, even down to replacing a processor or two. If your only options are the sledgehammer (ie. getting a new one) or paying an extortionate price for a "pro" to 'try' and fix it, i'd say go for broke and try it yourself. One thing i will say is to watch out for wires that can easily be pulled while removing parts.. unfortunately some laptops have a really stoopid wiring arrangement so be carefull when lifting out parts to make sure there are no wires attached to the underside of the part you are removing. And yes, the screws can be a batty to remove and they will get lost very easily.

If nothing else, you will only gain experience from trying this yourself and lets face it, laptops are cheap these days so teh cost of repair may only be a few dollars short of a new machine.

use the force dude.

Edited October 30, 2007 by vermillion01

[azrael]

Out of curioisty, are there any tinker-friendly laptops out there at all, or are they just mess of compressed nightmares across the board?

There are some, but not many. Alienware notebooks have lots of panels for easier access, but they have a price tag to match.

[emajnthis]

I've done quite a few internal laptop fixes and builds; generally they all take apart very similarly once you've done it a couple times on different models. Remove (and label through whatever means you feel comfortable) any visible screws from the bottom of the laptop, often times there will be a set of screws for the bottom half of the casing (including screws that belong to all of the compartments like the RAM, CPU, and HDD) and a set of screws for the keyboard. Some models (like the Dell's) you have to remove the keyboard, unscrew screws that are underneath the keyboard and then unscrew all of the screws in the bottom of the laptop to get it into two halves in order to access the fans. From there it's a simple swap out, if you incidentally purchased the wrong fan (since you probably won't know until you get it open) so long as the power requirements are the same, you can cut and crimp (or soder)... i don't fully recommend cutting and crimping, but if you've gone as far as to take the laptop apart, you won't see it when you put it back together, and so long as the fan is powering up, you're good as gold. Laptops are really picky, i've found VAIO's to be the worst to take apart, Dell's are kind of standard, haven't worked on any Toshiba's to be honest with you.

[mikeszekely]

I remember on my friend's laptop, we determined that it was a pain in the ass to even do something as simple as change the CMOS. (Lucky for me, it looks like it's probably under the batter in my MacBook.)

Laptops really are a pain. Even a "simple" laptop procedure can be a pain. Like with my MacBook, the hard drive is supposed to be easy to replace... but once I removed the battery and the RAM cover and slid the hard drive out, there was a ESD shield that helped protect the drive and make sure it slides in right... and Apple neglected to mention you need a Torx screwdriver to get it off and put it on the new drive.

[myk]

I'm considering picking up COD4 for my PC. I never bothered to install SP2 on my system, so is that going to be a problem?

[VF-19]

I'm considering picking up COD4 for my PC. I never bothered to install SP2 on my system, so is that going to be a problem?

Probably. Besides, you should at least update to service pack 2 and the later security updates, if for nothing of the piece of mind... Windows is rather well known for the massive security holes in it, and not just the ones in internet explorer.

[azrael]

I'm considering picking up COD4 for my PC. I never bothered to install SP2 on my system, so is that going to be a problem?

Yes. If you are using programs that were released prior to XP w/SP2, they may not work after you apply SP2 to your system. I would be less concerned with security considering the fact that SP2 might break your system, thereby making security a moot point if you don't have a functioning system.

[myk]

Right. I've been told to stay away from SP2 and I have, although I've never understood the exact reasons why. What sort of complications arise from SP2 asides from backwards-compatability issues?

[azrael]

Right. I've been told to stay away from SP2 and I have, although I've never understood the exact reasons why. What sort of complications arise from SP2 asides from backwards-compatability issues?

There are some changes in SP2 that does affect how your computer works but you probably won't notice them. Most of the changes are security related (which is why it is important that you upgrade to SP2). Most of the complications are related to hardware or software incompatibility.

Here's a list of known incompatible software (with version #) with SP2: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/884130

Some hardware (and related drivers) may also be incompatible with SP2. So while it is best that you do upgrade your system to SP2, be aware that it can also break your system should you have incompatible software or components.

[Morpheus]

My laptop at work : Win XP home edition with SP2.

Yesterday I had a terrible registry error and my laptop refuses to start up windows. I managed to repair it by using windows recovery console with a guide from microsoft support.

I wonder if there's any free registry checker/repairer which I can use to prevent another registry error?

[Ratchet]

The only laptop I have is a vintage 386 laptop that was running on Window 3.1 and barely boots to DOS. I used to have 3 "modern" laptops at one time. They all broke down.

Might get one in the future, but I'd rather get a desktop puter instead.

[emajnthis]

The only laptop I have is a vintage 386 laptop that was running on Window 3.1 and barely boots to DOS. I used to have 3 "modern" laptops at one time. They all broke down.

Might get one in the future, but I'd rather get a desktop puter instead.

you could always load linux onto the old laptops; old laptops running linux run as fast as new laptops with Vista.

[mikeszekely]

I'm considering picking up COD4 for my PC. I never bothered to install SP2 on my system, so is that going to be a problem?

Not as bad as you might think. I, too, avoided SP2 for the longest time for fear that it would break something I needed. But I bought an iPod touch right when they came out, and it required SP2 to sync with my computer (naturally, this was before I'd put a 250GB hard drive in my MacBook, and the 60GB hard drive it used to have wasn't really big enough to comfortably store my iTunes library). If you follow azrael's link, though, you can see that there's really not a lot that's known to be incompatible with SP2, and most of what is has newer versions. I bit the bullet and upgraded, and honestly, the biggest issues I've run into were that my Windows install was so old and busted I had to do a fresh install (fortunately, my hard drive is partitioned so that C is just big enough for the operating system, with room for updates and a few other essential programs, and D is where I keep most of my data and larger programs). Oh, and Windows Defender is irritating. But nothing broke, the sky didn't fall, my iPod worked, and by now I honestly can't tell the difference.

My advice, though, is to try to install COD4 before upgrading. A lot of software I bought that said it required SP2 worked fine in SP1. My iPod was the first thing that actually refused to work in SP1.

[azrael]

My laptop at work : Win XP home edition with SP2.

Yesterday I had a terrible registry error and my laptop refuses to start up windows. I managed to repair it by using windows recovery console with a guide from microsoft support.

I wonder if there's any free registry checker/repairer which I can use to prevent another registry error?

Registry Mechanic

[myk]

(fortunately, my hard drive is partitioned so that C is just big enough for the operating system, with room for updates and a few other essential programs, and D is where I keep most of my data and larger programs).

Hmm...Having your drive partitioned like that sounds advantageous. Why is that?

[mikeszekely]

Hmm...Having your drive partitioned like that sounds advantageous. Why is that?

Even though there is physically only one hard drive, the computer sees it as two. A smaller section, say, 15-20 GB for Windows leaves room for updates and essential software. The rest of the hard drive can be used for storage and stuff like games. The advantage is, when Windows starts to get f-ed up, and let's be honest, it eventually will, no matter how careful you are with your antivirus and anti-spyware and firewalls and all that, you can reformat the just the C partition and reinstall Windows without losing any of the data on the D partition.

[David Hingtgen]

Just a little note--XP's "repair install" can be VERY helpful/useful. A lot faster and easier than a true re-install, but easy to miss since it's NOT the obvious "recovery install" option it gives you at the first screen. Fixed my PC about a year ago when all else failed, and I was ready to format the entire drive.

http://www.geekstogo.com/forum/How-to-repa...ws-XP-t138.html

[promethuem5]

So, I got a new 8800GT GPU last weekend... and I was playing the Crysis demo on my comp with just about all max settings, and it's amazing, but now my it's overheating (artifacted to lock up in BioShock demo as well)... I'm looking into a few things (increasing fan speed, adding a casefan on the back) but the thing is the air circulation right now is awful bc/ it's a Dell... just looking for some more tips and whatnot to relieve this problem so I can get back to the bleeding edge of graphics.

[azrael]

So, I got a new 8800GT GPU last weekend... and I was playing the Crysis demo on my comp with just about all max settings, and it's amazing, but now my it's overheating (artifacted to lock up in BioShock demo as well)... I'm looking into a few things (increasing fan speed, adding a casefan on the back) but the thing is the air circulation right now is awful bc/ it's a Dell... just looking for some more tips and whatnot to relieve this problem so I can get back to the bleeding edge of graphics.

Which Dell model do you have?

[promethuem5]

Dimension

EDIT: Using RivaTweak to put the fan-speed to 75% seems to have helped... played Crysis for almost 45 minutes with no incident, but I fear forcing the fan to something it wasn't set for is less than optimal?

Edited November 10, 2007 by promethuem5

[promethuem5]

Just bought an 80mm case fan for a few bucks... hopefully I can turn down the GPU fan with this installed...

[Uxi]

Picked me up a new BFG 8800GT OC for my new build (E6750, 4GB of DDR2 1066) Haven't really fired it up with any games yet, but will most likely for Crysis.

[azrael]

Dimension

EDIT: Using RivaTweak to put the fan-speed to 75% seems to have helped... played Crysis for almost 45 minutes with no incident, but I fear forcing the fan to something it wasn't set for is less than optimal?

Unfortunately, Dell limits the speed on case fans intentionally to keep the noise low. They can reeve up faster but in those cases, the entire model line was defective. The other option for you is to open the case. The last line of Dimensions and the current Inspiron line come with panels for easy access. Prior to these models, they were designed with a swivel panel design. Opening the case does ruin the whole enclosed-system air-flow, but it does allow for the hot air to leave immediately.

[promethuem5]

The Dimension I have has the easy-remove side panel, but that didn't really help the GPU (I crashed with thermal artifacting even with it open...) and theDimension doesn't actually HAVE a fan... just some stupid giant CPU heatsink assembly that takes up more space than the hard-disks and optical drives... adding an actual case fan should alleviate the problem I'm told by ACTUALLY ADDING an airflow.

[myk]

Even though there is physically only one hard drive, the computer sees it as two. A smaller section, say, 15-20 GB for Windows leaves room for updates and essential software. The rest of the hard drive can be used for storage and stuff like games. The advantage is, when Windows starts to get f-ed up, and let's be honest, it eventually will, no matter how careful you are with your antivirus and anti-spyware and firewalls and all that, you can reformat the just the C partition and reinstall Windows without losing any of the data on the D partition.

Wow, thanks Mike. So 15-20 is all I need for the OS and some other stuff? I'm gonna' give that a try. I tend to format my HD's every 6 months or so, and this procedure might make it easier...

[myk]

The Dimension I have has the easy-remove side panel, but that didn't really help the GPU (I crashed with thermal artifacting even with it open...) and theDimension doesn't actually HAVE a fan... just some stupid giant CPU heatsink assembly that takes up more space than the hard-disks and optical drives... adding an actual case fan should alleviate the problem I'm told by ACTUALLY ADDING an airflow.

There's no fan other than the one on the video card? Ouch...

[konimon]

I wonder if there are any 2U aftermarket cooler that fits 8800 GT. Those pull air from the inside and exhaust to the back of PC, so it's like a case fan on it's own. I am thinking my long overdue GPU upgrade would be a 8800GT, though it seems sold out at many places...

[promethuem5]

I highly recommend the 8800GT... I bought the Asus model, and it works like a dream (Dell thermal issues aside)... I've got a crappy rest of computer (Intel Core 2 2.2gHz... 2G RAM)... and I've been playing the Bioshock demo on max settings and Crysis demo on pretty much max everything (Ultra super duper textures and models included) and it runs stupendously. After only ever having mid-range stuff (I've had a comp with a GeForce Ti4200 forever now...) I feel a little bit spoiled by the 8800GT. And for $300 and a manageable card size, you can't go wrong.