bsu legato Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 We've danced around this topic a lot, but now I want a definitive answer once and for all from the Macross community. This isn't intended to settle which is the worst Macross series overall, or which is the "true" heir to SDF Macross. It is simply to prove once and for all which of these two shows is the least popular. And for you milquetoast fence-sitters, I'll allow you to vote 'neither' as long as you post a reply stating your opinion that anything with the UN Spacy kite is A-ok in your book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXO Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 I can't decide!!! You're poll sucks because it traps me into admitting that I'm interested in either! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsu legato Posted March 30, 2005 Author Share Posted March 30, 2005 I can't decide!!! You're poll sucks because it traps me into admitting that I'm interested in either! Not necessarily. You can easily hate both shows. I just didn't include a "Both" option because 1) it seemed unlikely that somebody would hate both shows with the exact same hatred. 2) voting "both" is the easy way out. People need to learn to articulate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigkid24 Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 I voted neither because I don't hate either of them. Macross II isn't that bad. It's slow but the story actually makes sense in terms of the Macross brand. Plus most people like the mechs. Macross 7 is great for what it is. Yes, Basara is annoying and Sound Force is going pretty far but I like the added info it provides about the Protoculture and the glimpse of Max and Milia it gives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druna Skass Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Hmm, in terms of story Macross 7 definatly beats out Macross II, but that's not really saying a lot now is it? As far as characters well II has a blue haired hottie in a skimpy outfit, revelaing, while 7 has some annoying self-rightious jack-ass that I'd like to punch out. So I'll give that one to II. Mechanics, well I like the designs of both of them except for those butt-ass ugly sound force VFs (well Mylene's wasn't that bad). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXO Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 2) voting "both" is the easy way out. People need to learn to articulate. Very well then. I've decided to choose that my hate towards M7 is far more overwhelming due to the Basara factor. Plus the bad guy is a furry guy with a big flying dog. Though I am partial to Sivil over Ishtar, because she just that much more of a space skank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsu legato Posted March 30, 2005 Author Share Posted March 30, 2005 Oh and since I created the darn poll, I should give my own opinion. While I'm not a fan of Macross II, my dislike for it pales in comparison to the seething hatred I harbor for M7. But I think its the fact that M7 is the "official" sequel that really seals the deal for me. An SDF sequel should have had so much promise, but instead we get drowned in crappy J-pop and characters that are downright evangelical in their preachyness. Blech. I'll always hate you the most, Macross 7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent ONE Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 I HATE Macross7 enough to actually murder someone over it. My reasons: 1. ENCOURAGING WEAKNESS IN CHILDREN The trend since we were kids has been one of featuring heroes (if I must call them that) who are just worthless weaklings who promote taking the easy way out… M7 is one of the worst on this issue. Plot-line is unrealistic and peace and dancing while holding hands is ALWAYS the way things end, which is teaching a lesson of fantasy, NOT reality… No one is ever confrontational, there is no real problem solving, and everything is a compromise, as much as we would like to believe that is a real reflection on life, it isn’t… Nothing in life is a compromise; there are those who take, and those who get ripped off, that’s life. 2. TARGETED AT LITTLE KIDS I have had many arguments with MW members on this point, but it is pretty obvious that M7 wasn’t made for us old Macross fans… In fact quite the opposite, most of the older guys around here are enraged by M7… No, M7 was made for a younger generation, it was made to bring a new Macross fans in, but if it did or not, it managed to make me and others like me embarrassed to be Macross fans. 3. STUPID DESIGNS, MACHINES WITH BOOBS AND FACES The designs are so retarded I could scream. I mean seriously, the teenage girl gets a pink fighter plane with boobs…Some of the other fighters have actual faces… What the fu(k… If this show were called “Fruits in Space” or something, I guess I could handle this, but its called Macross… A show that gets affiliated with DYRL, and the machines with faces and boobs have no place next to a work of art like DYRL. 4. STUPID DESIGNS, CLOTHING, NAMES, AND COLOR CHOICES They took the bad ass of bad asses.. Max, and they made him wear a dress. So unbelievably lame. They made the main squadron of the show, whose job was to dance and sing in space in a RAINBOW or colors… They named a squadron “Pink Pecker.” This one makes me want to just rip M7 fan’s teeth out with a rusty pair of pliers. God I swear Kawamori hates old school Macross fans. 5. REDICULOUS ENEMIES The ‘bad guys’ in this show were just clowns. Totally stupid dialogue, with characters that looked like some kind of cross-dressing costume pride parade winners. I mean there is absolutely nothing to fear about these guys, they are laughable 100% of the time. Combined with their lame appearance and lame dialogue, their mission is to suck song energy from humans… How sinister. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solscud007 Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 i like them both Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowlightman Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 I hate Do You Remember Love, just to be different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terry the lone wolf Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 (edited) Mac 2, for all its flaws, didn't have Valks with faces. Shudder!!!!!! Edited March 30, 2005 by terry the lone wolf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent ONE Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 I hate Do You Remember Love, just to be different. BLASPHEMY!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godzilla Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Even though I have seen much of Macross 7, I have to agree with A1. Macross 7 seems to be screwed up. And worse of all, Max looks like a dork. What happened the to suave ace Max? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mechamaniac Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Having seen both, I don't think the lack of Kawamori makes Macross II any less Macross. NOTHING happens in Macross II that is in any way, any stranger, or less canon than the freaky deaky $hit that happens in Macross 7. Personally, I like Macross 7 alot more than Macross II. But I don't agree that Macross II shouldn't fit into the continuity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
promethuem5 Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Hving read quite abit about Mac7 (and laughing my ass off at A1's comments) and owning Mac2, I've got to say Mac7. I have little intention of ever seeing it.... too little kid oriented to be Macross. I absolutely LOVE Macross 2, except for the part where they blow up the Macross. Otherwise I almost like Mac2 more than DYRL (can you say plot PROGRESSION?) The only thing Mac7 did for us was give us respectable bootleg VF-19 toys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGREXX Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 No competition. M7 is Hands down the worst. Too much singing, weird enemies and did I mention the damn singing!!!!!!!!!! M2 may not be official but at least I did not force myself tho watch it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegis! Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 (edited) I would have to say to say Macross II. Why ? Cause it paved the way for Macross 7 in the sense that Bigwest could´ve done a way better sequel to Macross AND include Kawamori in it. Neither of the 2 shows had Kawamori backing up its develoment ( BW ignored Shoji in Macross II cause he was tired of the franchise and in M7 he was too busy with Macross Plus , for good or bad ). Macross II is gulty for making Macross less recognisable as Gundam or any contemporary mecha show because it failed in delivering a proper sequel to Macross. Since then the only good and more mature shows we´ve gotten are Macross Plus and Zero. As far as I know the only good points of M7 are the fact that it introduced some cool designs ( VF-11 Full Armor / VF-11D jamming birds / VF-19S-P / VF-5000G / VF-14 ) and a more detailed background on the Protoculture. That´s it. Everything else was just a marketing gimmick for selling J-pop CDs. ( it is to be acknowledged that without this happening Macross Plus would´ve never seen the light of day as a macross series since it was the deal that Kawamori had to accept in order to get his project done.) In comparison Macross II didn´t contribute in any way at all , not even by selling J-pop CDs or merchandise. It certainly wasn´t a best seller. at the end of the day we´re actually lucky to get at least 5 out of 6 productions worth watching. Edited March 30, 2005 by Aegis! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellohikaru Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 (edited) Macross 7 for me since it became more of a platform for selling noisy J-pop as mentioned by Aegis. While it did introduced some cool valks like the VF-11D and VF-5000 they were never popular enough to generate any toys or mass production scale models. OTOH I like alot of things about Macross 2. Cool mecha like VF-2SS and Metal Siren and certainly better looking destroids than M7. Much better clothing and fashion sense too. Ishtar wasn't anyway near as annoying as Mylene. So it was a different kind of macross but it was macross at its core. The music in m2 is actually quite good once you have listened to it. Just because it lacks the MTV style publicity that is M7 doesn't mean it is worst. While i never considered Macross 2 to be a true sequel to SDF it was at least watchable and entertaining compared with the weird M7. Just my 2 cents anyway. Edited March 30, 2005 by hellohikaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurin Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 I HATE Macross7 enough to actually murder someone over it. My reasons: 1. ENCOURAGING WEAKNESS IN CHILDREN . . . 2. TARGETED AT LITTLE KIDS I have had many arguments with MW members on this point, but it is pretty obvious that M7 wasn’t made for us old Macross fans… In fact quite the opposite, most of the older guys around here are enraged by M7… No, M7 was made for a younger generation, it was made to bring a new Macross fans in, but if it did or not, it managed to make me and others like me embarrassed to be Macross fans. 3. STUPID DESIGNS, MACHINES WITH BOOBS AND FACES . . . 4. STUPID DESIGNS, CLOTHING, NAMES, AND COLOR CHOICES . . . 5. REDICULOUS ENEMIES . . . That is a perfect post. And, I hope it's not too ignorant of me to say that it's posts like this that have made me steer clear of M7 and spared me the horror of it. After all, if I didn't like MII, and M7 is supposedly worse according to nearly everyone, how much will I hate M7!?! Now, if everyone will permit me a bit of fun-poking: If you take A1's point #2 above and replace M7 with "Episode 1" and Macross with "Star Wars". . . you basically get what I've been saying about Star Wars for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hikuro Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 While I think your compairing apples and oranges cause they're technically unrelated except title name and miscombulated past events, oh well. .....I"M A CONSUMER WHORE! W00t! Go whores! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent ONE Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 I HATE Macross7 enough to actually murder someone over it. My reasons: 1. ENCOURAGING WEAKNESS IN CHILDREN . . . 2. TARGETED AT LITTLE KIDS I have had many arguments with MW members on this point, but it is pretty obvious that M7 wasn’t made for us old Macross fans… In fact quite the opposite, most of the older guys around here are enraged by M7… No, M7 was made for a younger generation, it was made to bring a new Macross fans in, but if it did or not, it managed to make me and others like me embarrassed to be Macross fans. 3. STUPID DESIGNS, MACHINES WITH BOOBS AND FACES . . . 4. STUPID DESIGNS, CLOTHING, NAMES, AND COLOR CHOICES . . . 5. REDICULOUS ENEMIES . . . That is a perfect post. And, I hope it's not too ignorant of me to say that it's posts like this that have made me steer clear of M7 and spared me the horror of it. After all, if I didn't like MII, and M7 is supposedly worse according to nearly everyone, how much will I hate M7!?! Now, if everyone will permit me a bit of fun-poking: If you take A1's point #2 above and replace M7 with "Episode 1" and Macross with "Star Wars". . . you basically get what I've been saying about Star Wars for years. ALL the SW movies were targeted at kids. You saw the first 3 as a kid, RIGHT!???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baseley09 Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Neither, ive only have 2 episodes of Macross 2, it's style overal s my favourite bar DYRL, particularly the music. Towards the back end of M7, some of the art direction is very good imo, movement style wise similar to TF : The Movie, which appeals to me. I like some of the music in it too, i'm not even remotely a j-pop fan. Ive been reading this board for a while before joining, there seems to be a goading towards hating M7, which is pretty unfair, people should just watch and enjoy it for what it is. A Macross for a younger modernised generation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
areaseven Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Tough call. Macross 7 is better than Macross II. On the other hand, Macross Dynamite 7 is the single worst sequel in the Macross timeline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UN Spacy Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 I've only seen a few episodes of Macross 7 (The Galaxy Is Calling Me and Fleet of Strongest Women). But I know it well enough to NOT WATCH the rest of it. I'm not saying that Macross II was superb, but it still had great character and mecha designs. Sure, the animation suffered in the later episodes but the action was well worth the price of admission. II will always be better than 7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 I don't hate either, so I voted neither. But I am apathetic towards Macross 2, as opposed to actually LIKING Mac7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurin Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 ALL the SW movies were targeted at kids. You saw the first 3 as a kid, RIGHT!???? Some would say the same about Macross. Though they'd be wrong. . . just as you are wrong (IMHO) about Star Wars. You and I have been over this before. So let's not do it again here. And indeed, should we feel compelled to do so, that thread is still open (miracle!). But really, with apologies for ewilen for dragging him into this, nobody has ever said it better than he did here. But, I'll refrain from quoting him in this thread. Let's just agree to disagree here. I couldn't resist poking a little fun because of the similarities of the arguments and didn't intend to restart the debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortress_Maximus Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 (edited) I HATE Macross7 enough to actually murder someone over it. My reasons: 1. ENCOURAGING WEAKNESS IN CHILDREN . . . 2. TARGETED AT LITTLE KIDS I have had many arguments with MW members on this point, but it is pretty obvious that M7 wasn’t made for us old Macross fans… In fact quite the opposite, most of the older guys around here are enraged by M7… No, M7 was made for a younger generation, it was made to bring a new Macross fans in, but if it did or not, it managed to make me and others like me embarrassed to be Macross fans. 3. STUPID DESIGNS, MACHINES WITH BOOBS AND FACES . . . 4. STUPID DESIGNS, CLOTHING, NAMES, AND COLOR CHOICES . . . 5. REDICULOUS ENEMIES . . . That is a perfect post. And, I hope it's not too ignorant of me to say that it's posts like this that have made me steer clear of M7 and spared me the horror of it. After all, if I didn't like MII, and M7 is supposedly worse according to nearly everyone, how much will I hate M7!?! Now, if everyone will permit me a bit of fun-poking: If you take A1's point #2 above and replace M7 with "Episode 1" and Macross with "Star Wars". . . you basically get what I've been saying about Star Wars for years. I so agree... with H and A1. Edited March 31, 2005 by Fortress_Maximus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st Border Red Devil Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 I HATE Macross7 enough to actually murder someone over it. *snickers* Tell us how you really feel AgentONE. As for Macross 7.....I watched the entire series and the OVAs....praying to a deaf God that it would get better. It didn't. Macross II may have had weak animation in the last 2 episodes, but its storyline was a helluva lot more believable than whatever whacked out slop Kawamori thought up for Macross 7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegis! Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 (edited) I forgot to post a little side note to all. I´m not a M7 lover but I´ll have to say , if anyone wants to experience Macross 7 with the Full , authentic , 100% Macross flavour , in other words how Macross 7 ( and II for the sake of it ) SHOULD have been made in the first place ,then you´ve gotta read Macross 7 TRASH manga It´s Classic Studio Nue storytelling , great drama , great characters , awesome read. Seriously , had the producers made Trash the original Sequel and not Seven then we wouldn´t even have this discussions today. I would compare it side to side with Macross Plus kinda plot. Although it does not feature many valk action in it ( they should´ve made a sequel damn it) it´s worth the time , much more so than Seven or II . IMO it the perfect sequel for M7 haters , it has all the good things of the original macross ( love triangle , great characters , conspiration theory , zentrady conflict ,no music though ) and no Clown-faced valks , no J-pop , no crappy animationand best of all : no annoying Basara Edited March 31, 2005 by Aegis! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent ONE Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 ALL the SW movies were targeted at kids. You saw the first 3 as a kid, RIGHT!???? Some would say the same about Macross. Though they'd be wrong. . . just as you are wrong (IMHO) about Star Wars. You and I have been over this before. So let's not do it again here. And indeed, should we feel compelled to do so, that thread is still open (miracle!). But really, with apologies for ewilen for dragging him into this, nobody has ever said it better than he did here. But, I'll refrain from quoting him in this thread. Let's just agree to disagree here. I couldn't resist poking a little fun because of the similarities of the arguments and didn't intend to restart the debate. I had forgotten about those posts, you have a hella bad ass memory. I can't remember what I ate for lunch. I guess my only dissagreement with you is the degree to which you see the childish elements of EP1 and EP2 and downplay them in the OT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenius Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 I would argue, even if you hated both equally, Mac2 makes you suffer for a lot shorter duration. Personally, Mac2 never made me physically angry so clearly I must hate Mac7 more. I would go on more about this but I think A1 tends to sum up my thoughts in a lot more intimidating way... I don't think people truly get the vehemence of my dislike but you gotta understand his... 'cause you might be the one he'd kill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opus Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 I'm indifferent. I don't care one way or the other for any of the sequels. SDF Macross is the only Macross for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesker99 Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 "I'm a consumer whore!" "And how!" I love Rejected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Like Macross II. Love Macross 7. Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinxCrossq Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 I must admit that I am... I'm a consumer whore and will buy anything Macross... Anyway, I love Macross 7 and Macross II wasn't that bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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