HG and Robotech Debates, ep. 8

[JB0]

you kidding me? EVERYTHING that FASA corp. pulled out of their asses in the 90's, after they stopped ripping off japanese designs, sucked total ass.

Not EVERYTHING.

There's always the MAD CAT!

But seriously, I played the crap out of the SNES Mechwarrior back in the day. Not Mechwarrior 3050, the OTHER one, the one that tried to be like the PC Mechwarrior games despite only having 12 buttons.

There were some pretty slick-looking vehicles in it, though certainly not very anime-looking vehicles.

...

And I am greatly saddened. Wikipedia says most of the SNES mechs were created for, and only used in, SNES Mechwarrior.

And that's pretty much my only exposure to the franchise, aside from the above MAD CAT! picture.

[anime52k8]

it has been proven, time and again, that, on the whole, westerners simply DO NOT know how to design Mecha.

serious mecha design requires a certain mindset, and a certain eye for design. a specific design ethic, if you will.

that very specific design ethic has been repeatedly demonstrated, many, many times, past and present, to be virtually exclusively Japanese in origin.

virtually EVERY time the very few truly competent western Mecha designers out there have ever displayed any true design virtuosity

is when they have either learned their craft via paying careful attention to the ways and means of true japanese Mecha design,

or are simply aping off existing japanese design work wholesale...

Syd Mead is disappointed in your lack of knowing what the f*ck you're talking about.

[areaseven]

[Einherjar]

Heavy Gear, anyone?

Is something still stuck on a boat in China and is the Glaug really a new toy? In fact, is any of the toy information even new at this point?

Also, smooth transition from toys to Carl Macek. I just had a feeling that he would just pop up eventually.

Edited November 3, 2011 by Einherjar

[Protoculture]

Kind of... that's how it was back in the 90's, back before there was anything like official information on Robotech. Lots of fans (mistakenly) treated the Robotech RPG as a sort of encyclopedia and technical manual for the series, mainly because back in those days it was pretty much the only publication providing any level of detail about the Robotech setting, characters, mecha, etc. It wasn't until the Robotech fandom went online that they started to get alternatives... the uRRG and, later, the Infopedia.

Nowadays, the "mainstream" fandom doesn't see the Palladium RPG as a valid source of information at all... even though the new books have supposedly been vetted for accuracy by Tommy. Most fans adhere to the popular position that the only stuff that counts in the rebooted Robotech continuity are the "original" series, the Shadow Chronicles movie (and related material), and the Wildstorm comics. They've cottoned onto the uRRG's stance that the RPG is nice, but completely unreliable when it comes to what's what because of all the liberties taken with the material in the name of game balance... if not because of the contradictions that crop up between even the new, vetted version and the official materials published around the same time.

Well, that's how most of us viewed the matter.

But then again, most RT RPG fans nevertheless treat the new RT RPG ed. as their new gospel. They don't give a hoot about canon-schmanon thingies. Some of them didn't even watch Robotech in the 1st place, but played the RPG because they're harcore RPG gamers. Granted, there's no official mech-based RPG in USA apart from classic Battletech, Robotech, Bubblegum Crisis .... and Macross II.

I've been through many facets as a Robotech fan throughout my years in the fandom, as McKinniyist (I lived in Asia at the time where's there limited RT products available, apart from RT novels) .... as online fandom begins with uRRG - I become Purist (yeah, & involved in several flamewars, debates between McKinniyists (later reformed as Early Return faction) vs Purist (reformed as Late Return faction). Aaahhhh the days, kinda missed it.

But then, thanks to Dave Dietrich Steelfalcon website, I started to discover my love for Macross once again. Macross Plus, Seven ... sure the ol' site ain't perfect, but it is THE REFERENCE site for many Macross fans (apart from Egan Loo's) in mid & late 1990s before the advent of MW.

It was there that I learned the elements of RPG in both Robotech & Macross-verse. Of course, I'm not interested in playing the RPG, but I'm more intrigued regarding the possibilities of expanding elements of RT-verse so prevalent in the ol' RT RPG.

By mid 2000s, as RT fandom self destruct itself via schism & feuds between several factions on RT.com, I kinda shied away from the RT-verse, apart from postings here & there on sporadic basis.

I was from that time trying to dabble in fanfics, expanding upon several uRRG essays that tried to filled several plotholes of RT-verse ..... but in my case, its just a case of being an RT fan to contribute to RT fans in general. My fanfics only served to give general & detailed backgrounds of RT-verse for RT fans, especially the RT RPGers so it may enriched their RPG gaming.

I no longer cares much about what's canon or non-canon. As long its official RT sources including previous decanonised materials, then I'm game enough to use 'em for my fan essays. Now, I considered myself a Universalist ... in a way still a Purist, but willing to to include elements fron non-canon RT official sources to enrich my understanding of RT-verse.

But I also consider myself as part of Lying Macross Purist TM. :D

Maybe I'm not as some passionate Macross fans that found RT as the archenemy or some former RT fans that converted to Macross. I don't harbor ill-will towards HG as well, although their business ethics regarding Robotech franchise is questionable.

Maybe I'm one of the rare breed that able to enjoy both Macross & Robotech equally. Well, coming from my kiddie years, able to watch both original SDFM & Mospeada ... later on with RT ... did give me an appreciation to both series.

I do not have emotional baggages (most are justified) that plagued both side of Macross & RT fandom. Being from someone who're both appreciative of Macross II & avid lover of Macross 7, perhaps I'm able to accept the differences of both franchises.

Edited November 3, 2011 by Protoculture

[sketchley]

(...) Based on my experiences with them, Palladium Books isn't a bad company by any means. IMO, their main problem is a mixture of laziness, overestimating their capabilities, and phenomenally bad luck.

Heh... I was just going to pin it to a failure to meet deadlines. Anywho...

for all those complaining about it, just remember: Palladium Books is promising and DELIVERING content. That's much, much more positive than can be said about HG, which is not only promising and FAILING to deliver content, but also actively BLOCKING others from delivering content.

[ps99042]

Why the heck does Tommy look so uncomfortable and just confused at the mic? It's pretty much the same presentation they always give. Curious that he says the Glaug is coming soon when the light artillery pod took have a year to make it to the US after being produced and ready for sale. "Soon" is probably a couple years from now.

Edited November 3, 2011 by ps99042

[Legioss]

Oh boy. Macross is finally "stateside". More recycled announcements. DYRL valks again. I'm so excited. Who cares why we should buy them? Toynami's superior quality speaks for itself! I wonder why I can't get rid of my alpha morphers.

[Dynaman]

Granted, there's no official mech-based RPG in USA apart from classic Battletech, Robotech, Bubblegum Crisis .... and Macross II.

You missed the two best ones, Mekton and Heavy Gear.

[yui1107]

The Japan government , "anime" Toy and Figure "All Nippon entertainment works." has established for Blu-ray discset and toy sales national policy company in Hollywood

My Opinion article (Japanese language) Can "ALL NIPPON ENTERTAINMENTS WORKS" open the way as The Strategy weapon " Grand-Cannon" ?

Edited November 3, 2011 by yui1107

[Shaorin]

Syd Mead is disappointed in your lack of knowing what the f*ck you're talking about.

Syd Mead is a legend, and pretty much unique. IMO, he stand's in a class of his own, in fact.

his work on movies like TRON, ALIEN/ALIENS, BLADE RUNNER, Etc. was and is truly visionary.

that said, his contribution to Anime, the "TURN-A GUNDAM" is, while quite unique and imaginative,

rather turns traditional Japanese Mecha design sensibilities on their head,

and as such, is not overly popular among fans, myself included;

Edited November 3, 2011 by azrael

[anime52k8]

that said, his contribution to Anime, the "TURN-A GUNDAM" is, while quite unique and imaginative,

rather turns traditional Japanese Mecha design sensibilities on their head,

and as such, is not overly popular among fans, myself included;

I'm Just going to draw a line in the sand right now and say that People who don't like Turn-A gundam are damnable, unwashed Philistines.

[Shaorin]

I'm Just going to draw a line in the sand right now and say that People who don't like Turn-A gundam are damnable, unwashed Philistines.

why thank you!!

[azrael]

BTW, yui117's post as usual, makes little sense in this thread (if anything, it's about bringing more Japanese-produced works to international markets).

And look, it's on ANN: All Nippon Entertainment Works Begins Film and Anime Production

Reference: All Nippon Entertainment Works Co., Ltd. Established to Introduce Japanese Contents to International Audiences

Such a confused woman....

[Einherjar]

BTW, yui117's post as usual, makes little sense in this thread (if anything, it's about bringing more Japanese-produced works to international markets).

And look, it's on ANN: All Nippon Entertainment Works Begins Film and Anime Production

Reference: All Nippon Entertainment Works Co., Ltd. Established to Introduce Japanese Contents to International Audiences

It's probably not a good thing for Harmony Gold.

[UN Spacy]

I wish I could have been sitting with a the new VF-25F in hand.

I'd fly it around like Hikaru did w/ his VF-X4 while Tommy bores me to death.

[BeyondTheGrave]

Why the heck does Tommy look so uncomfortable and just confused at the mic? It's pretty much the same presentation they always give. Curious that he says the Glaug is coming soon when the light artillery pod took have a year to make it to the US after being produced and ready for sale. "Soon" is probably a couple years from now.

He no longer has a soul. For HG has a copyright on it as well.

[Einherjar]

Cameras aren't allowed in convention panels, I think that's why. Their regular cameraman, however, is an exception.

[Funkenstein]

You missed the two best ones, Mekton and Heavy Gear.

Also don't forget Dust Tactics.

[Dynaman]

Also don't forget Dust Tactics.

Too new for me, I'm turing into more a cranky old git by the minute.

[Beltane70]

Robotech really are delusional!

http://www.robotech.com/community/forum/read.php?id=2133253&forumid=17

The comic mentioned in the thread is said to be "heavily influenced" by Robotech, yet the comic's creator says that Macross Plus and a few anime titles are the main influences for it.

Man, I so want to throttle people over there until they understand that Macross, especially anything after SDF:M is not Robotech! I know it's a lost cause, but it still make me feel better!

[azrael]

... I so want to throttle people over there until they understand that Macross, especially anything after SDF:M is not Robotech! I know it's a lost cause, but it still make me feel better!

"Robotech"... American for "Macross".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaHkEH3nk8w

[Zor Primus]

Getting closer to 2 years later and Macek's name is still being used. I don't see people at the Apple store using Jobs' death as a selling point...

[Keith]

Getting closer to 2 years later and Macek's name is still being used. I don't see people at the Apple store using Jobs' death as a selling point...

You also don't see Apple repackaging the IIe every few years as a new product

[Einherjar]

You also don't see Apple repackaging the IIe every few years as a new product

Speaking of "new products," is the new Zentradei Light Artillery Battlepod toy by Toynami really something to brag about?

[Jasonc]

Imagine if Apple decided to take an Apple II, and use just some of the parts for it in a "new computer, and because they want to honor Steve Jobs, they decide that they are going to follow in the tradition that started it all, and use the original OS. That's almost like what HG is doing with their lame idea.

[Darkwater]

Imagine if Apple decided to take an Apple II, and use just some of the parts for it in a "new computer, and because they want to honor Steve Jobs, they decide that they are going to follow in the tradition that started it all, and use the original OS. That's almost like what HG is doing with their lame idea.

And imagine that the Apple II consisted of a CPU from one company, a keyboard from another, and monitor from another. I've said before, Carl Macek was good businessman and a good producer, but he was not a "creator."

[Keith]

And imagine that the Apple II consisted of a CPU from one company, a keyboard from another, and monitor from another. I've said before, Carl Macek was good businessman and a good producer, but he was not a "creator."

Oh he created something alright, he created a 25 year & growing headache.

[mrhillz]

"Robotech"... American for "Macross".

I actually had to explain to my younger brother that Robotech wasn't American Macross at all. So there are some people that really don't know the difference.

Edited November 5, 2011 by mrhillz

[JB0]

And imagine that the Apple II consisted of a CPU from one company, a keyboard from another, and monitor from another. I've said before, Carl Macek was good businessman and a good producer, but he was not a "creator."

That's... actually a terrible analogy, since it's EXACTLY what happened with the Apple II, for a very good reason.

MOST computers are built using components from more than one vendor. I guarantee that MOS Technology did not supply all, or even MOST, of the chips inside the Apple II, any more than they did to other 6502-based machines like the Commodore 64, Atari 8-bit computer family, and all 3 "classic" Atari consoles. MOS made a great processor, but many of the other necessary parts were not offered by MOS, or were in-house designs offering custom capabilities.

In the Apple II's case, Steve Wozniak designed much of the support, most notably the incredibly cheap floppy controller, which used some crazy logic to drive the cost well below what it was believed you could DO a floppy system for. But Apple was, and still is, fabless, so they were MANUFACTURED elsewhere.

Even a company like Texas Instruments, that DID own fabs and DID both design and manufacture ALL the necessary silicon for their own computer back in the day, STILL contracted out for the keyboard and monitor on the 99/4a.

No one manufactured an entire computer or game console "in-house." And this is true to this day, because it still requires different design and manufacturing specialties for different components.

As an example... Despite Apple desigining the iPhone 4's core system-on-a-chip(albeit using subsystems licensed from other companies, including a CPU architecture from ARM), most chips in an iPhone 4 are manufactured by Samsung(for the time being), and the devices are assembled by Foxconn, using LCDs from Toshiba and Sharp.

[taksraven]

Not EVERYTHING.

There's always the MAD CAT!

But seriously, I played the crap out of the SNES Mechwarrior back in the day. Not Mechwarrior 3050, the OTHER one, the one that tried to be like the PC Mechwarrior games despite only having 12 buttons.

There were some pretty slick-looking vehicles in it, though certainly not very anime-looking vehicles.

...

And I am greatly saddened. Wikipedia says most of the SNES mechs were created for, and only used in, SNES Mechwarrior.

And that's pretty much my only exposure to the franchise, aside from the above MAD CAT! picture.

Mad cat???

[Zor Primus]

Speaking of "new products," is the new Zentradei Light Artillery Battlepod toy by Toynami really something to brag about?

That depends on the current dow jones industrial rate. Keep in mind this battlepod like most unemployed Americans has been affected by the global economic crisis.

[Einherjar]

I actually had to explain to my younger brother that Robotech wasn't American Macross at all. So there are some people that really don't know the difference.

That's a very important point, because HG has really been taking advantage of this and people generally don't care about the differences.

That depends on the current dow jones industrial rate. Keep in mind this battlepod like most unemployed Americans has been affected by the global economic crisis.

I thought because the Battlepod was made overseas that it cost American jobs.

But come on HG and Toynami, take some risks. It hasn't stopped them before.

It's vulnerable to snipers, but still!

Edited November 5, 2011 by Einherjar

[Seto Kaiba]

I actually had to explain to my younger brother that Robotech wasn't American Macross at all. So there are some people that really don't know the difference.

That's a very important point, because HG has really been taking advantage of this and people generally don't care about the differences.

Yeah, that's an ongoing problem with Robotech... and it's a misconception that Harmony Gold has put a fair amount of time and effort into cultivating, partly because it gets them kudos they don't deserve and partly because it discourages the people who're unaware of the truth from exploring real Macross. It just goes to show that ignorance is about the only thing that kept Robotech limping along since 1987 or so...

[Sdf Prime]

In Shadow Chronicles were there many original characters and ships or were most of them existing somewhere else? Like the ships where they mostly Mospeda designs?

And that treatment said that Shadow Chronicles is supposed to be like four parts and they haven't put out part two yet, so does anyone think the sequels will see the light of day?