chyll2 Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 the CF is a special variant made after the alto, in order to be 100% Anime accurate, it needs to explode as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanner Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 the CF is a special variant made after the alto, in order to be 100% Anime accurate, it needs to explode as well hahaha!! well that certainly explains a lot then eh! That's it then.. im definitely NOT touching mine ever again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neoexcaliber Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Exploding shoulder or not, it's still my favourite 171. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickyg Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Seconded. She's a purdy valk. Mine had a shoulder 'splosion but only after I disassembled it to get a better look at all the cracks in the part. I'm sure it would have cracked sooner or later but there's no doubt I accelerated it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanner Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 After Luca's 171 i'd say the CF is the next nicest variant! Im still umming and ahhing buying the RVF.. I might have a bit of spare cash left over our electricity bill which might have to be spent on one! maybe.. My son's Alto 171 is still a bit of a mess.. its literally crumbling away the more he touches it! We did replace the shoulder triangles on it too if you recall mickyg! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abbadon Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 I'm getting tempted to get a VF-171... For the EX It looks great with the armor parts in Battroid mode. The CF, I would probably keep in fighter mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickyg Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 And the rest is failing? That is a real shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sildani Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 I wonder if they used a different factory, for its first and only time, to make the CF 171. That might explain why only the CF's show the bad plastic and crap assembly, and why it was reported that they ignored all the tolerance requirements. It might have been Bandai chose one factory for Alto's EX, and it cost more to make. So they contracted with factory B who made the CF for less, but it was garbage. Back to factory A for the RVF-171 and Maruyama. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanner Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 I wonder if they used a different factory, for its first and only time, to make the CF 171. That might explain why only the CF's show the bad plastic and crap assembly, and why it was reported that they ignored all the tolerance requirements. It might have been Bandai chose one factory for Alto's EX, and it cost more to make. So they contracted with factory B who made the CF for less, but it was garbage. Back to factory A for the RVF-171 and Maruyama. it may have been but I can't see why Bandai would choose do that as any other factory would have to tool up with new molds etc which only would have cost Bandai more money than an already established factory. Unless the different factory was able to access the existing molds. Who knows.. Well anyways I was just comparing my CF to my son's Alto and apart from the color scheme and other minor detail differences, they appear to be pretty much identical. Maybe in an effort to reduce costs a cheaper material was used in the castings for the CF which was more brittle and prone to breakage perhaps? These are only guesses of course.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrie Driver Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 My Alto version is holding up very well, aside from some joints getting loose. I passed on the CF when I heard about the breakage issues. I do have one complaint about the design, and that is how floppy it is. It seems to me that they could have done the wings better, and made the toy lock together more effectively. When I handle mine in battroid it likes to come untabbed and then the whole torso just sinks. The VF-25 comes together much better, and despite the floppy shoulders and excessive wing kibble, I like how that one just locks up. The VF-19Advance has more transformation gimmicks and still locks together better than the VF-171. I'm just saying, a tightened up re-release would be in Bandai's favor... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anubis20 Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 (edited) Well my main CF 171 had the shoulders crumble as well as the chest hinge so its now in forever fighter mode. I have a second CF 171 that has cracked shoulders but they still manage to stay together and hold the shoulders up, dont think i'll ever transform it again since now im afraid of the chest hinges also exploding on it. I have a third that is MISB that i will never open! I dont want it to crush my dreams of at least *believing* I have an intact CF 171. Edited August 18, 2015 by anubis20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkymonkeyjavajunky Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 (edited) I purchased two of these mother fodders and have only had one knee joint shatter. I consider myself lucky considering the plethora of other issues. Edited August 18, 2015 by funkymonkeyjavajunky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchieNov Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 I have a third that is MISB that i will never open! I dont want it to crush my dreams of at least *believing* I have an intact CF 171. Just like Schrodinger's Cat! It's broken and not broken at the same time. Hehe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrie Driver Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Just like Schrodinger's Cat! It's broken and not broken at the same time. Hehe. Schrodinger's Valk? (I'm not proud) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickyg Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 (edited) FYI on the shoulders: the triangles hold the pauldrons to the shoulders. That's the only structural thing they do. They aren't responsible for holding the arms or shoulders to the valk. It ain't pretty but if one completely crumbles the arm doesn't fall off, you just have nothing to hold the pauldron on. Edited August 18, 2015 by mickyg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loop Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 All 3 of mine were transformed in to Battroid mode right away because there were reports of missing parts. They all "Appear" to be OK at this point in time, knock on wood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anubis20 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) FYI on the shoulders: the triangles hold the pauldrons to the shoulders. That's the only structural thing they do. They aren't responsible for holding the arms or shoulders to the valk. It ain't pretty but if one completely crumbles the arm doesn't fall off, you just have nothing to hold the pauldron on. Thats what i meant when i said hold the "shoulders" up Edited August 19, 2015 by anubis20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 For those of you with experience, if one of these NEVER gets transformed, will it stay intact? I went hog wild and bought 3 of them, but never had the guts to take one out to inspect it after hearing about the triangle issues... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanner Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 All 3 of mine were transformed in to Battroid mode right away because there were reports of missing parts. They all "Appear" to be OK at this point in time, knock on wood. hehe! just don't let them hear you talking about them or they'll break on you! For those of you with experience, if one of these NEVER gets transformed, will it stay intact? I went hog wild and bought 3 of them, but never had the guts to take one out to inspect it after hearing about the triangle issues... that is a very good question but yeah some of the guys here with more experience will be able to answer that for you! Personally I don't play around with my Valk's enough or been back in the game long enough to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenius Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 I think the black triangles may still break on you but I think if you never move the knees you won't have to worry about the knee joint breaking. Can't swear to any of that though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrie Driver Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Spontaneously exploding valks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duymon Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 I checked my CF-171 fleet after a year. Most are still intact but a select few developed cracks on their shoulder triangles. I checked a lil further and it all comes down to retarded tolerances with the black shoulder piece and the metal shoulder joint it covers. All the ones that had cracks had metal shoulder pieces that for some reason weren't 100% flush so they had a .3-.5 mm seam between the metal halves. Combine this slight gradation with the cheap, brittle plastic used on the Shoulders and over time they will crack and shatter without fail. Using some super glue and accelerator I repaired all of my triangles then had to sand and refinish them with a coat of gloss black. I then sanded down the metal shoulders a lil bit to reduce the amount of outward force they exert onto the plastic shoulders due to the shoddy joint work by the factor workers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchieNov Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 I wonder if weather/temperature has anything to do with the plastic degrading over time. I've had my single CF since release and those triangles at the shoulders haven't shown any issues with durability yet. The lower triangle though (the one that folds underneath) had cracked. Bur I think that was because I accidentally placed too much pressure on it during my first transformation when I forgot to move it out of the way. A crack appeared around the metal pin at the center. I live in a tropical environment where we only have 2 seasons in a year, summer and rainy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandman Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 I live in a tropical environment where we only have 2 seasons in a year, summer and rainy. Sounds like Vancouver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrie Driver Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 I live in a tropical environment where we only have 2 seasons in a year, summer and rainy. So basically wet and wetter. Where, if you don't mind me asking? It seems that the CF valks had some shoddy QC going on. Apparently the shoulder triangles were an issue with the alto release as well, but I've had no issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no3Ljm Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 So basically wet and wetter. Where, if you don't mind me asking? It seems that the CF valks had some shoddy QC going on. Apparently the shoulder triangles were an issue with the alto release as well, but I've had no issues. Wait... Alto also? Oh man, I have to check mine later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchieNov Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 So basically wet and wetter. Where, if you don't mind me asking? It seems that the CF valks had some shoddy QC going on. Apparently the shoulder triangles were an issue with the alto release as well, but I've had no issues. I live in the Philippines, located in Southeast Asia. I'm just thinking that maybe extended periods in cold weather made the plastic more brittle over time, as opposed to a more tropical/humid climate. I dunno if mine will also crumble eventually, but so far it's holding up fine without any shoulder cracks forming. I have all the versions of the 171 but no breakage issues on them yet aside from the one I mentioned earlier (which was probably mainly my fault). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronocidal Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) The shoulder triangles seemed like mostly a tolerancing and assembly issue (I even had issues on one of my Luca RVF-171s with the shoulders not being assembled correctly). They might explode just from existing. The leg issue though is a seriously complex thing. It's a combination of effects from bad structural design, bad transformation instructions, and bad materials. On the structural design part, the entire thigh swivel is based on a metal spring pin inserted into a hollow plastic shaft that bears the brunt of the stress in moving the legs. On its own, that might fail over time from wear and tear. The transformation instructions are a problem because they don't tell you the correct sequence of lowering the legs, and the mechanism is sloppy enough to let you do it the wrong way. In fact, the legs should be dropped at the hip first, and not at the knee joint, like almost literally every other valk in existence. The reason is that the leg rotation only works correctly with the knee joint entirely straight. Note, the lower leg can rotate into gerwalk position while the knee is dropped one notch, but it isn't meant to. The only reason the leg rotates at that point is because the interlock in the rotation joint is sloppy, and lets it slip going toward gerwalk mode. The reverse is NOT true. Turning the leg back sideways to put it into fighter mode is the point where my leg exploded, because I had the knee bent. The mechanism is locked until the knee is straight, and since the directions don't give you a reverse transformation, there was really no way to tell that. Trying to twist the legs back into fighter mode without the internal lock disengaging means all the stress from that twisting was applied to the thigh rotation joint at a skewed angle. The off-center force destroyed the entire knee joint. I've got diagrams posted earlier in this (or another thread) showing exactly how it broke. The best thing I can do for that leg now would be to shapeways myself a solid replacement for the knee, and leave it in fighter forever. As far as materials go, I'm highly suspicious of the metallic plastic they used in the CF-171s. When my knee shattered, I mean it literally shattered into shards. The plastic broke along defined flow lines, leaving sharp edges like glass. Something about that batch did not work correctly. I can't say anything for the design improving on later releases, since I don't think Bandai would even bother, but I can say that I still suspect the plastic. One of my Luca RVF-171s has a hairline fracture in back surface of the knee joint, right along a flow line in the plastic. Consequently, I've stopped transforming any of them, because I don't trust them to survive. TLDR: Don't bend down the legs at the knee joints and expect the rotation to work. This is my favorite example of why I hate Bandai's engineering practices, because there is no reason that stupid leg twist interlock should exist. They could have saved themselves money on manufacturing, and saved buyers a lot of frustration with broken legs if they had just made it a simple twist joint. It even would have added to the articulation by letting you point the toes out further for battroid. Edited August 19, 2015 by Chronocidal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanner Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 considering the issues with the CF version, has there been any similar problems with Luca's RVF-171? Im still considering picking one up but not sure.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no3Ljm Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 And also... no exploding triangles yet on the Maruyama one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronocidal Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 I haven't seen any breakages reported, but I'm still very wary. I should say, the RVF-171 I opened has a malformed shoulder pauldron that would not rotate correctly without some work being done on it, and actually comes apart rather easily because the screw is stripped out. I don't think the lower triangles were a problem, but I haven't looked at it in a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scyla Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 I like the transformation on the VF-171 but I agree that the leg rotation is scary and dumb! The issues with aligning the arms usually goes away once the joints in the arms are less stiff after a few transformation circles. Than you can move the joints without dislodging the arms on the back and line them up so that the shoulder armor sits flush. On Yamatos VF-17 this is less of an issue because the shoulder armor is not as slim as the one on Frontier Valkyrie so you have much more room for the upper arms. If I understand Chronocidal correctly you should bend the legs straight before twisting the lower legs right? I'm scared handling my VF-171CF because the last time I handled it (while putting the armor on) the legs wouldn't rotate easily. Now it stays in Fighter-Mode because I'm afraid the plastic will shatter if I handle it again. It's GPS all over again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronocidal Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Pretty much, yes. There's enough slippage to let you rotate the legs going away from fighter while the knees are bent, but it won't work the other way around. Only way I've gotten mine to rotate reliably in both directions was to make sure the knees are entirely straight. To do that, you have to drop the legs at the gerwalk thigh joint, instead of at the knee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanner Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 So should i or shouldn't i buy a Luca 171!?!? I have my mouse pointer poised over the "add to cart" button as i write this! Just need that little shove in either direction to decide.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanner Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 (edited) never mind.. I caved and just bought it anyways! Edited August 21, 2015 by spanner76 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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