ff95gj Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Come on Yamato! Just charge higher like the VF 11B. I think the VF11B is an all-new mold too. I thought the 1/60 new production line is all about "every single unit". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radd Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Compared to Valkyries? Three guesses. What does that have to do with the price of eggs? Unless you're suggesting that Yamato's Valkyries aren't selling well? A Tomahawk, a Defender and a Phalanx shares roughly the same legs, so development costs are reduced; a Spartan would need to be developed separately, and has very few similar parts to the "Big Three", Er, yes, we know this. so it's not surprising that it's unlikely to be produced even if the other Destroids are selling like hot cakes. Sorry, but if that logic held water Yamato would still be trying to peddle repaints of whatever the first 1/72 Macross Plus toys was, and nothing else. If the other destroids are selling well, Yamato stands to profit from the Spartan, even if development and production costs would cut into that. So, it's pretty clear that if the destroids were selling like hot cakes, they'd be eager to release the Spartan despite this. And if the Spartan's not likely, to say less of a Monster... The Monster would be unlikely in any case. It's size would raise production costs, the cost of the end product. Most people would be put off by the price, and most of the rest would be put off by how much space it would take up. It's amazing that Yamato is releasing an SDF-1 Macross in the scale they've chosen, though that would be a much better bet than a Monster. No, the sad truth of of the matter is that the Destroids probably aren't selling well enough for Yamato to push ahead with the Spartan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynx7725 Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Sorry, but if that logic held water Yamato would still be trying to peddle repaints of whatever the first 1/72 Macross Plus toys was, and nothing else. If the other destroids are selling well, Yamato stands to profit from the Spartan, even if development and production costs would cut into that. So, it's pretty clear that if the destroids were selling like hot cakes, they'd be eager to release the Spartan despite this. (...) No, the sad truth of of the matter is that the Destroids probably aren't selling well enough for Yamato to push ahead with the Spartan. I suspect it's probably somewhere there. The Destroids are selling, just not that well to justify the expense of developing a whole new Spartan. To be honest, filling the Destroid line is probably second fiddle -- I suspect we'll see 1/60 enemy mecha soon enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radd Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 That could be the case, yes. They have at least sold well enough for Yamato to push the Tamohawk, Defender, and the Phalanx. I know that early on, I believe it was shortly after the Destroids were first announced, Graham mentioned that the Spartan was unlikely. I was curious as to whether his most recent post on the matter was repeating that, which was likely based on Yamato's sales expectations before the toys hit the market, or if he had heard anything recently, which would be based on how well they've actually sold so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ff95gj Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 I just checked Yahoo JP auction, and I don't see many destroids lying around or at a cheap price. I guess it isn't doing bad? In Hong Kong, I still see some on the shelves, but the price stands, so I think it's doing okay too. (it's obvious here that if something is overstocked, the shops will chop the price real soon ) Anyone in Japan who can share some observations on the Yamato Destroids sales? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Trooper Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Well, lets keep this much in mind... A few years ago, I seem to remember hearing that Yamato had absolutely no plans to make the SDF-1 either...but lo' and behold, we're getting one. What Yamato plans to do today may not reflect what it decides to do tomorrow. The Spartan may see a release with the reissues of the Destroids a few years from now to add some incentive to "collect all of them" if you never had a chance to get any of the first generation versions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miriya Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 I have the Defender and I want a spartan to keep her company. Too bad it is not on the table already. I may have to just get the phlanx. They MUST be making a phlanx since it shares so much with the tomahawk and defender. But yeah, Graham's inside 411 is a bit of a bummer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwin3060 Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Well, lets keep this much in mind... A few years ago, I seem to remember hearing that Yamato had absolutely no plans to make the SDF-1 either...but lo' and behold, we're getting one. What Yamato plans to do today may not reflect what it decides to do tomorrow. The Spartan may see a release with the reissues of the Destroids a few years from now to add some incentive to "collect all of them" if you never had a chance to get any of the first generation versions. Well I hope their decision to make the SDF-1 doesn't blow up in their face, what with the economy and all. Then we can get to see a Spartan! I'm holding off getting any Destroids until I know I can get a full set, completist that I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarrinG Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 What's all this silly talk of no Spartan? Of COURSE they're coming out with the Spartan! And with the success of the giant SDF-1 they'll also release a limited TV version 1/60 Monster in just 3 short years or less. (I now have my fingers firmly in my ears refusing to hear any opinions to the contrary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueMax Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Not likely to have the Spartan?! Awww....... com'on Yamato... [Rob Schneider] YOU CAN DO IT! [/Rob Schneider] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logos Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 (edited) Well I hope their decision to make the SDF-1 doesn't blow up in their face, what with the economy and all. Then we can get to see a Spartan! I'm holding off getting any Destroids until I know I can get a full set, completist that I am. I think it will be fine. Remember that I think they listed the SDF-1 as coming out sometime next year. I would hope that by the end of 2010 the economy has recovered somewhat. If it hasn't the SDF-1 is going to be the least of ours and Yamato's problems. Edit: Oh and I think we will get the Spartan. It's just going to cost more. I would bet $10-$30 more. Edited April 20, 2009 by logos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonely Soldier Boy Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Not that I can't wait for it to come out (very little money these days), but is there any word on the release date of the OD Defender yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceCowboy Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 I suspect we'll see 1/60 enemy mecha soon enough. Oh, i really hope that is true - want Glaug, Regult please! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UN Spacy Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 I thought Yamato liked monies? The Spartan is more popular AND Hikaru piloted one. That's win win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ff95gj Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Just for an update; Yamato offical site says April 29 for Defender OD. P.S. It's actually Khaki Green, not OD! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chet Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 No SPARTAN? Why....that would be.....MADNESS..... (Come on. I know at least one of you won't be able to resist!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red2alpha Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 My Defender came with a missing muzzle brake on one of it's barrels. Damn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacrossJunkie Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 No SPARTAN? Why....that would be.....MADNESS..... (Come on. I know at least one of you won't be able to resist!) Ok, I'll bite. Madness? THIS...IS...A SPARTAN!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted April 22, 2009 Author Share Posted April 22, 2009 Spartan would require all new toooling. No tooling from the Tomahawk/Defender/Phalanx can be reused. Tooling is very expensive. Yamato is not sure the Spartan would actually make a profit. Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ff95gj Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Spartan would require all new toooling. No tooling from the Tomahawk/Defender/Phalanx can be reused. Tooling is very expensive. Yamato is not sure the Spartan would actually make a profit. Graham Yikes! I need the Spartan! It's unfair that I've gotten 3 Destroids units already (with the knowledge that Phalanx is on the way), and then Spartan won't be out. Don't be that cheap, Yamato! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
505thAirborne Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 I would agree that retooling and building a toy from the ground up is costly, but kinda creepy to think the Spartan would not be a money maker for Yamato. Probably the best of the destroid designs (Next to the Tomahawk) and the only one Hikaru ever piloted!! (An kicked some A$$ with!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacrossJunkie Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 (edited) I have to agree that the market may not be there to release a spartan and Yamato still be able to recoup the costs, much less make a profit out of it. Some people say to price it higher to make up the difference, but there's already a lot of people who feel that destroids are too expensive as it is and more who think that how much they are right now pretty much the max they would pay or at least are willing to pay but still feel they overpaid for what they're getting. Bumping the price up by another $10 or more would likely cause the number of spartans sold to drop drastically. Far more would be lost in lowered sales than the amount gained per unit. An interesting interview with Brad Wardell of Stardock came up recently and some of the talking points regarding game sales actually seems to pertain quite well here. Full interview here. A couple relevant snippets here: At DICE, Gabe Newell gave a presentation on how price fluctuations spur game sales. Do you agree with his findings? ...Your best bet is to mark it off barely at all (so if it's a $40 title, mark it down to $35 to get a bump), or mark it off massively. But going from $40 and marking a title down to $30, you won't get appreciably more sales than you would have got at $35--not enough to justify the revenue loss. Similarly, if you mark it down to $25, it's not worth it. But mark it down to 10 bucks, it suddenly sells so many copies that it generates more revenue than it would have otherwise. So are games, in general, priced too high? ...Customers determine the value based on what they are willing to part with to get it. In my opinion, a lot of games would be way better off selling at $4.99. Personally, and I know statistically we know this to be the case, what happens is indie developers want to sell their games at $19.99. They eat it in sales because a lot of people just aren't going to pay that. But you make it $5, and you'll sell bazillions of copies of it. The relevant idea here is that if you charge too much, you won't get very much in units sold. What is different with the Spartan and macross toys in general from the video game market is that Yamato can't really charge much lower because unlike video games, the market for macross toys and especially something like the Spartan is much much smaller, so they probably wouldn't be able to make back the cost if they sold it for very low and every person with even a remote interest in the spartan or completionists bought one (maybe more than one for some people, but still). Edited April 22, 2009 by MacrossJunkie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logos Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Yeah if the numbers aren't really there someone at Yamato would have to have a "big pair" to take the risk. It's sad that we probably won't see a Spartan but at least we will have the other 3. Now I just have to figure out how to get the scratch together to afford all this stuff coming out this summer! Argh! Why does summer always = death to me and my credit card! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kremmen Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Yeah if the numbers aren't really there someone at Yamato would have to have a "big pair" to take the risk. Does the Phalanx share the legs of the Tomahawk or Defender? If it does, then it would be quite possible we wouldn't be getting it at all *but for that*. That's half the tooling cost already paid for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kremmen Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 (edited) What does that have to do with the price of eggs? Unless you're suggesting that Yamato's Valkyries aren't selling well? How on Earth did you arrive at that? No, the question was 'aren't the Destroids selling well', so my response was 'compared to the Valkyries?', i.e. "no, at least not by comparison to the Valkyries'. Sorry, but if that logic held water Yamato would still be trying to peddle repaints of whatever the first 1/72 Macross Plus toys was, and nothing else. If the other destroids are selling well, Yamato stands to profit from the Spartan, even if development and production costs would cut into that. So, it's pretty clear that if the destroids were selling like hot cakes, they'd be eager to release the Spartan despite this. Not necessarily, it depends on how much of the tooling might be shared between the Phalanx, Tomahawk and Defender. If the answer to that is "none", then your argument holds up. But anyway, the Spartan is most people's least favourite Destroid, isn't it? The Monster would be unlikely in any case. It's size would raise production costs, the cost of the end product. Most people would be put off by the price, and most of the rest would be put off by how much space it would take up. It's amazing that Yamato is releasing an SDF-1 Macross in the scale they've chosen, though that would be a much better bet than a Monster. Agreed. Edited April 22, 2009 by Kremmen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarrinG Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Dear Yamato, PLEASE release the Spartan. And please release the 1/60 TV VERSION Monster after you reap the awesome sales from the upcoming SDF-1. I will find the money and space somehow. PS - If you have a lapse of judgement and make it the K Monster Go-bot 'shuttle' version, I will cry real man tears. Sincerely, Faithful Customer whose Spent lots of Money on Your Products Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynx7725 Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Yamato is not sure the Spartan would actually make a profit. So let's talk numbers. How many does Yamato thinks it needs to sell to break even? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangard Ace Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 If Yamato is unwilling to make a 1/60 Spartan....anyone know how to design a papercraft version? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenius Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Maybe they could just make the Spartan a lot simpler than their other destroid toys so it's not such a huge pain to get the money back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightmareB4macross Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Maybe they could just make the Spartan a lot simpler than their other destroid toys so it's not such a huge pain to get the money back. I think if Yamato were to do this, then this measure would undoubtedly produce more reasons for people not to buy the Spartan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miriya Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Maybe we could ask Moscato to make a 1/60 Spartan? However 1/72 is his scale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightmareB4macross Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Maybe we could ask Moscato to make a 1/60 Spartan? However 1/72 is his scale. Would be nice, but he has sworn off doing anymore toys. All due to a previous bad experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radd Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 How on Earth did you arrive at that? No, the question was 'aren't the Destroids selling well', so my response was 'compared to the Valkyries?', i.e. "no, at least not by comparison to the Valkyries'. It's fairly obvious that the Destroids wouldn't sell as well as the Valks, which have always been the stars of the show. The question, in its full context, was "Are the Destroids not selling well enough to make it worthwhile for Yamato to sell the Spartan", to which your response reads that if they were not selling as well as the Valkyries, it would not be worth it to go ahead with the Spartan, or that the Valkyries were selling at minimum acceptable profit to push ahead, so the Destroids would need to meet that to make rounding out the line acceptable. Not necessarily, it depends on how much of the tooling might be shared between the Phalanx, Tomahawk and Defender. If the answer to that is "none", then your argument holds up. But anyway, the Spartan is most people's least favourite Destroid, isn't it? The post I was replying to was saying that the Spartan was unlikely no matter how well the Destroid line was doing. If Yamato stands to profit well enough from the Spartan, and they would if the current Destroids were "selling like hotcakes" as the post had put it, then it should be worth it to them to sell the Spartan. If creating an entirely new mold was reason enough to put Yamato off from selling a toy despite profit far outweighing tooling costs, which was the entire argument, then we'd still be getting repaints of the 1/72 YF-19. If the line is doing "well enough" but still not so hot, it is not unreasonable then that the additional production costs of the Spartan might move their profit margin into an unacceptable range. This appears to be the case based on the latest statements. There's also cost to effort. They wouldn't go through all the effort of producing a Spartan toy that was going to only "break even", or simply make a minimal profit. They're still a business, not a charity. How popular is the Spartan? Good question. It's my least favourite, but it seems to be popular with some people, and as others have pointed out it's the only destroid to be piloted by the show's central character. That usually influences popularity, but I'm not convinced it has in this case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ff95gj Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Defender Khaki Green is due next week. I used to plan to collect the original and alternative colors of the Destroids; but now knowing that the Spartan may not be coming out, I am thinking about cutting the alternative colors. Also while I think the Tomahawk OD is good, the Defender KG looks too similar in the painting scheme. Previously I plan to get it just because it means something to get all 4 destroids. Now I wonder if I should get it... Argh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonely Soldier Boy Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 About Hikaru piloting the Spartan in the TV series, Yamato could just pack the toy with a Hikaru pilot figure and label the box as "Destroid Spartan Hikaru Type" or something like that to spark more interest in potential buyers. I know squat about marketing, so if anyone feels like bashing my idea with smart marketing theories, save it: I'm merely wishful thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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