Macross Frontier Episode 16 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[RedWolf]

I felt really bad by the end of this episode, not in the "this is a bad episode" way, far from it, but well...that fight at the end felt more genocide in action than a battle. I'm starting to wonder if it's not pure xenophobia that is driving those who are pushing this war. Maybe a bit of so-called "manifest destiny" in conquering all of space under the banner of Protoculture derived species, while wiping out the Vajra for being "too alien" to coexist with?

Of course, SDF2501 has a point. Maybe that's the idea behind the war, make the Vajra into the mindless killing machines they need to be, at least as far as popular opinion goes. Manufactured xenophobia. If people see them as an alien race, yet one which humanity can co-exist with, perhaps even communicate with, then you can't just use them as a resource. That would, afterall, be inhumane. Of course, if the Vajra are perceived as vicious killers, with no capabilities of higher thought and reasoning, then you can slaughter them as needed, and use them to your own ends, while being hailed as heroes and protectors.

However things unfold, I'm eager to see where all this is going.

Copy pasta from the Plot thread.

I'll have to wait for the translation but I'm beginning to see the motivations behind Grace et al and Bilrer.

Bilrer said his dream is to make the galaxy a smaller place using Fold Quartz. Like the new LAI booster and instant communication.

Bringing the children of the Protoculture together.

Now what did the Protoculture could not achive in their 500,000 years of history?

Unity and Peace.

In Macross Plus and VFX-2 there are still colony disputes, rogue Zentradi, worst a coup attempt.

Humanity is mearely taking the same footsteps as the failed Stellar Republic.

As Linderman in the show Heroes said to Nathan. People need hope but it is fear they trust. This tragedy will rally the people in a united sense of hope under united sense of fear.

Macross Galaxy is using the Vajra to create fear and establish themselves to guide civilization.

[grss1982]

did someone else seen them, canon-fodder VF-25

Yeah. Noticed it too.

Now that you mention it this is actually the first beut of a FLYING CF-25 a.k.a. Cannon Fodder VF-25.

klan can't die, Micheal has to get macronized and fight alongside her in his blue q-rau!!

Agreed. I want my DYRL Homage!!!

There's one thing that bugged me about this episode. We see the scene at the beginning with Alto fighting the Vajra accompanied by the VF-25 extra (I'm reluctant to call it cannon-fodder, since it IS a VF-25 after all...). But there's no sense of when he's fighting in relation to anything else that happens in the episode. The scene just kind of seems to be "there" without really fitting in well with the continuity of the rest of the episode.

If its colored brown then it must be a Cannon Fodder. AND thus must be designated as the CF-25.

[vanpang]

I would hope Ozma doesn't die in the next week, I feel they have not devloped him much yet and he has much to go and I feel he should go back after Cathy

[Kelsain]

I felt really bad by the end of this episode, not in the "this is a bad episode" way, far from it, but well...that fight at the end felt more genocide in action than a battle. I'm starting to wonder if it's not pure xenophobia that is driving those who are pushing this war. Maybe a bit of so-called "manifest destiny" in conquering all of space under the banner of Protoculture derived species, while wiping out the Vajra for being "too alien" to coexist with?

Of course, SDF2501 has a point. Maybe that's the idea behind the war, make the Vajra into the mindless killing machines they need to be, at least as far as popular opinion goes. Manufactured xenophobia. If people see them as an alien race, yet one which humanity can co-exist with, perhaps even communicate with, then you can't just use them as a resource. That would, afterall, be inhumane. Of course, if the Vajra are perceived as vicious killers, with no capabilities of higher thought and reasoning, then you can slaughter them as needed, and use them to your own ends, while being hailed as heroes and protectors.

Ooh, that is a neat insight. It really does work the the themes we've seen from Kawamori and also the capitalist overtones that have been established in Frontier. They really have worked to make the Vajra more sympathetic in the last few episodes, shifting the "bad guy" mantle to Galaxy. That's quite an interesting idea that Bilrer has his own greedy angle. Actually, it just adds ANOTHER triangle to MF; the poor Vajra are caught in the middle between Galaxy & SMS. Damn, I've lost count of just how many triangles this show has! The theme song really works well, in that regard.

Green VF-27's look incredible! I wonder if they have the same head-unit as Brera? Mr March, I think you may need to tone down the green on the M3, it looks too bright compared to this ep. As far as their presence at Frontier, I got the impression that everyone (besides Grace, Leon and SMS) assumed that the Antares squadron arrived with the Vajra fleet.

I thought this was a great episode for Ranka's character. Her reluctance is played really well, and only her brother's encouraging words convince her to try the Ranka Attack. Even then, she hardly looks out the window at all while singing; and when she does, she sees the Vajra being killed because of her actions. Deep, dark stuff!

I had said back during the Zentran uprising that the show had lost it's serious and dark overtones that were established in the Deculture Ed. I take it back! This is MACROSS!!1!

Edited July 26, 2008 by Kelsain

[Radd]

I had said back during the Zentran uprising that the show had lost it's serious and dark overtones that were established in the Deculture Ed. I take it back! This is MACROSS!!1!

I'm thinking the tone of the zentradi uprising, and many of the pacing issues I've complained about since the beginning of the series, are a side effect more of time constraint than simply poor writing. I'm already thinking this series could have benefitted from a longer run, the overarching plot seems more ambitious the more they reveal.

Too late for that, unfortunately. I just hope the end run doesn't fall flat due to poor pacing and a shortage of episodes.

That's not to say that I'm not enjoying every single episode. Loading up Animesuki and seeing the latest Macross Frontier episode is the highlight of my week right now, end every new episode leaves me all the more eager for the next.

Edited July 26, 2008 by Radd

[eugimon]

Yeah. Noticed it too.

Now that you mention it this is actually the first beut of a FLYING CF-25 a.k.a. Cannon Fodder VF-25.

Agreed. I want my DYRL Homage!!!

If its colored brown then it must be a Cannon Fodder. AND thus must be designated as the CF-25.

Nah, alto watched CF-25's taking off right before he met sheryl and she offered to take him to gallia to go flying.

[Final Vegeta]

I'm thinking the tone of the zentradi uprising, and many of the pacing issues I've complained about since the beginning of the series, are a side effect more of time constraint than simply poor writing.

I think that in episode 12 too much gore would have made Ranka's singing grottesque. 12 was a kind of slapstick episode, that used sheer over-the-top-ness to achieve awesome. It is not a problem it wasn't in the same tone of the first episodes, since the whole conflict was basically a side story.

Too late for that, unfortunately. I just hope the end run doesn't fall flat due to poor pacing and a shortage of episodes.

I am worried that the real problem could be too much predictability. I have faith in Kawamori for a good climax, though.

That's not to say that I'm not enjoying every single episode. Loading up Animesuki and seeing the latest Macross Frontier episode is the highlight of my week right now, end every new episode leaves me all the more eager for the next.

The problem of Frontier is that secondary characters are too much secondary, this despite a keen eye on little details from one episode to another (ie: the director from ep. 10 appearing in ep. 9). Despite this, is one of the best series of the '00ies, and by the end maybe it will become one of the best series ever.

FV

[Valkyrie addict]

so...did Luca ever told Nanase that thing??

and how come Ozma can't recognize Brera as Ranka's sister, they were all on the 117th fleet??

[Tsuchiro]

gg subs out!

[TehPW]

Ooh, that is a neat insight. It really does work the the themes we've seen from Kawamori and also the capitalist overtones that have been established in Frontier. They really have worked to make the Vajra more sympathetic in the last few episodes, shifting the "bad guy" mantle to Galaxy. That's quite an interesting idea that Bilrer has his own greedy angle. Actually, it just adds ANOTHER triangle to MF; the poor Vajra are caught in the middle between Galaxy & SMS. Damn, I've lost count of just how many triangles this show has! The theme song really works well, in that regard.

Green VF-27's look incredible! I wonder if they have the same head-unit as Brera? Mr March, I think you may need to tone down the green on the M3, it looks too bright compared to this ep. As far as their presence at Frontier, I got the impression that everyone (besides Grace, Leon and SMS) assumed that the Antares squadron arrived with the Vajra fleet.

I thought this was a great episode for Ranka's character. Her reluctance is played really well, and only her brother's encouraging words convince her to try the Ranka Attack. Even then, she hardly looks out the window at all while singing; and when she does, she sees the Vajra being killed because of her actions. Deep, dark stuff!

I had said back during the Zentran uprising that the show had lost it's serious and dark overtones that were established in the Deculture Ed. I take it back! This is MACROSS!!1!

I VOTED 3, even though i only seen just clips atm. Yes, the Varja seem more or less the threat and far more the oppressed beings. but the sh... crappy part of the episode, even just from Youtube clips? the blatant reuse of stock photage? this is already as bad as Macross-7, as far as this type of laziness goes by production. i mean, 2 iconic varja missled deaths within a minute of each other?

i'm still interested in the direction of the series, but visually? they are lossing me FAST....

[RedWolf]

so...did Luca ever told Nanase that thing??

and how come Ozma can't recognize Brera as Ranka's sister, they were all on the 117th fleet??

Sister? Last time I checked Brera is guy.

Then again with these cyborg bodies you never know.

Brera was supposedly went kabloowee in his excape pod.

Oh yeah, Ranka and Brera may not be their real names.

Remember mom's name is Ranshe Mei and grandma could be Mao Nome.

[IAD]

Am I the only one who doesn't feel any sympathy for the Vajra? I mean, comm. jamming/psy-ops is fair game in war, and even if they are being 'manipulated'... Let's face it, I don't think the kill ratio is in human favor yet. (What was the crew count on the frigate that ate it in Ep. 1? Plus the Galaxy escort that got hit by the Vajra mothership... And the hull breach on Island 1... Ahhh, even the 117th... An entire fleet wiped out. Few million casualties?)

So, SMS et al. figured out a method to reduce Vajra combat effectiveness... Why is that a reason to feel sorry for the V.? (Alternatively, why does it suddenly make "the heroes into bad guys"? Would the heroes still be heroes, if they were needlessly sacrificing their own people, just to keep the fight "fair"/not-shooting-fish-in-a-barrel?)

~Luke

[Duke Togo]

the blatant reuse of stock photage? this is already as bad as Macross-7, as far as this type of laziness goes by production.

Well, atleast the reused footage looks good, the stuff they used in 7 was flat out Animefriend bad.

[Duke Togo]

Am I the only one who doesn't feel any sympathy for the Vajra?

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the Vajra are not the bad guys of Macross F. The big fight coming isn't going to be between the Frontier and the Vajra, it'll be between the Galaxy and the Frontier. The Vajra are being used.

[Kelsain]

Am I the only one who doesn't feel any sympathy for the Vajra? I mean, comm. jamming/psy-ops is fair game in war, and even if they are being 'manipulated'... Let's face it, I don't think the kill ratio is in human favor yet. (What was the crew count on the frigate that ate it in Ep. 1? Plus the Galaxy escort that got hit by the Vajra mothership... And the hull breach on Island 1... Ahhh, even the 117th... An entire fleet wiped out. Few million casualties?)

So, SMS et al. figured out a method to reduce Vajra combat effectiveness... Why is that a reason to feel sorry for the V.? (Alternatively, why does it suddenly make "the heroes into bad guys"? Would the heroes still be heroes, if they were needlessly sacrificing their own people, just to keep the fight "fair"/not-shooting-fish-in-a-barrel?)

~Luke

I'm not saying that what NUNS is doing and taking advantage of new tactics is evil. It makes sense really, and it is a tactic that the (N)UNS has held on to over the years.

Narratively, though, there is a shift in direction here. For example, WAS it the queen Vajra that showed Ranka the importance of the song? "Galaxy Anonymous" stated that they led the Vajra to Frontier for their own reasons, regardless of how many casualties there would be. In fact, were it not for the effectiveness of SMS, there would be a whole lot more. Your first paragraph sounds exactly like what GA wants you to think! (Or so it seems, at least) It's entirely possible at this point that the Vajra were dragged in to this conflict.

That the Vajra are now getting killed as a result of the ONE person who may be able to connect to them elicits my sympathy. My opinion might be different if Ranka herself seemed enthusiastic about it, but that might actually be more disturbing, and I would think less of her. After all, the power of music in Macross is about bringing people (as well as aliens) together. That's what Minmei, Myung, Basara and Sara all wanted; and in all cases the military has tried to exploit that.

[Isamu Starkiller]

That sounds like some kind of gay battle cry

"FIGHT THE VAGGIES!"

*Falls out of seat laughing*

[Radd]

I think that in episode 12 too much gore would have made Ranka's singing grottesque. 12 was a kind of slapstick episode, that used sheer over-the-top-ness to achieve awesome. It is not a problem it wasn't in the same tone of the first episodes, since the whole conflict was basically a side story.

Who said anything at all about gore? I just think it could have used more buildup, and maintained a little more SDF seriousness before Ranka swooped in, would have made the over-the-topness hit with just the right amount of punch. As it is, like several other aspects of the series it seemed kinda rushed, and Ranka's appearance seemed kinda forced as a result. I enjoyed the episode, just think it could have been done a bit better had it been two episodes rather than just one.

Also, it seems that the conflict was not all that secondary, as it was something that seems to have been engineered by Galaxy, and fairly integral to their original plans.

[junior]

No matter why the Vajra are coming into contact with Frontier, the fact still remains that they're dangerous creatures that are hostile to everyone (except apparently Ranka) and attack on sight. The only fully-grown non-combat Vajra that we've seen so far is the queen. We don't have all of the answers yet, but the Vajra don't appear to have shown much interest in interacting peacefully with any member of the NUNS other than Ranka.

If a peaceful co-existance with the Vajra is achieved (which, given Alto's constant "there can be only one race" comments, will probably happen), then the only way that it's going to come about is if Frontier successfully initiates communication. The Vajra haven't shown any interest in talking so far. For instance, when they were led to Frontier in episode 14, the first thing that they did was drop out of Fold Space and launch an attack on the fleet.

[Radd]

Am I the only one who doesn't feel any sympathy for the Vajra? I mean, comm. jamming/psy-ops is fair game in war, and even if they are being 'manipulated'... Let's face it, I don't think the kill ratio is in human favor yet. (What was the crew count on the frigate that ate it in Ep. 1? Plus the Galaxy escort that got hit by the Vajra mothership... And the hull breach on Island 1... Ahhh, even the 117th... An entire fleet wiped out. Few million casualties?)

So, SMS et al. figured out a method to reduce Vajra combat effectiveness... Why is that a reason to feel sorry for the V.? (Alternatively, why does it suddenly make "the heroes into bad guys"? Would the heroes still be heroes, if they were needlessly sacrificing their own people, just to keep the fight "fair"/not-shooting-fish-in-a-barrel?)

~Luke

You're a "black and white" kinda guy, I'm guessing?

Now, of course, the people of Frontier are convinced that there is no way to communicate or reason with the Vajra. They're alien enough that it's pretty easy to convince them, in very reasonable terms, that the Vajra are just mindless killing machines. The SMS and NUNS are just protecting a colony full of civilians from a vicious, mostly unknown enemy. The thing is, the people of Frontier are victims, too. As you've pointed out, they've lost quite a bit to these Vajra attacks, and they have no idea that strings are being pulled. No one has suggested that the heroes of the show have become villains, just that all is not as it seems and that the Vajra may not actually be villains either.

Is it so hard to believe good people might kill good people because they're convinced they need to, to protect those they love?

So now you have these two groups, both are being victimized and mislead by this third group, and one side is provided the means to just slaughter the other. You honestly can't see the tragedy here?

[junior]

So now you have these two groups, both are being victimized and mislead by this third group, and one side is provided the means to just slaughter the other. You honestly can't see the tragedy here?

Except that, as mentioned, the Vajra have made no attempt to communicate so far as we can tell. Even when they had Ranka in their grasp, there was nothing to indicate that the Vajra wanted to use her to initiate peaceful communications with the Frontier fleet. That was the most telling thing, imo. Ranka could have been used to talk to Frontier. Instead, it appears that they used her to home in on Frontier's location, and then attacked it with the clear intent to wipe it out.

As I stated earlier, I suspect that communications will be established with the Vajra before the end of the show. But the effort will *entirely* be on Frontier's side.

On an unrelated matter...

Episode 16 has some interesting dialogue from Sheryl. She indicates that she really doesn't like to be confined to a small area. Someone else has said more or less the same thing, though the scale was a few magnitudes larger...

During the scene in Alto's cabin on the Quarter, I got the impression that Alto and Sheryl are, at some unconscious level, engaged in a proud contest of wills. Each is trying to get the other to admit that they love them. It looked like Sheryl was making progress in dragging some sort of confession out of Alto before the earring interrupted things... and Michael... and Cathy...

Edited July 26, 2008 by junior

[Radd]

By that very same logic, it's no tragedy at all if the Vajra wipe out Frontier. After all, Frontier has had Ranka far longer than the Vajra and have made no attempts to communicate.

[junior]

By that very same logic, it's no tragedy at all if the Vajra wipe out Frontier. After all, Frontier has had Ranka far longer than the Vajra and have made no attempts to communicate.

Not really. When you stop and think about it, Frontier's position is completely different. Frontier doesn't have anyone brought up as a Vajra among its ranks who understands how to speak to the Vajra. Ranka understands how to communicate with humans, but the only Vajra that she's been able to talk directly to so far is the Queen - and the Queen initiated the contact. Ranka and Frontier don't understand why her singing affects the Vajra the way that it does, and the only thing that they've been able to figure out how to do is to temporarily disrupt the ability of the Vajra to fight. It's imperfect at best and only lasts as long as she keeps singing.

Further, the red and yellow Vajra don't appear to be intelligent enough to initiate any sort of real communcation with. The only Vajra that might be is the Queen. And we've only seen one of those.

So no, Frontier can't be blamed for the lack of communication.

[wolfx]

I still find it hard to believe that Brera is not questioned for this actions of destroying evidence and firing on friendlies and not revealing sooner that he was a Galaxy "survivor".

Or did i miss something?

[Gubaba]

Am I the only one who doesn't feel any sympathy for the Vajra? I mean, comm. jamming/psy-ops is fair game in war, and even if they are being 'manipulated'... Let's face it, I don't think the kill ratio is in human favor yet. (What was the crew count on the frigate that ate it in Ep. 1? Plus the Galaxy escort that got hit by the Vajra mothership... And the hull breach on Island 1... Ahhh, even the 117th... An entire fleet wiped out. Few million casualties?)

So, SMS et al. figured out a method to reduce Vajra combat effectiveness... Why is that a reason to feel sorry for the V.? (Alternatively, why does it suddenly make "the heroes into bad guys"? Would the heroes still be heroes, if they were needlessly sacrificing their own people, just to keep the fight "fair"/not-shooting-fish-in-a-barrel?)

~Luke

So the fact that the Vajra are VERY GOOD at blowing sh!t up (or should I say were very good at it...?) makes them unsympathetic? They're being played, most likely. Our heroes are also (again, most likely) being played, and are doing the bad guys' dirty work for them.

Perhaps my earlier words were ill-chosen...SMS are not bad guys, but they are doing what the bad guys want. So yes, they're still heroes, but their current job is...less than heroic, let's say.

And if the thoery that the Vajra are either being provoked or were somehow altered to become aggresssive doesn't lessen the enormity of their actions, but it does absolve them of some of the responsibility. The way it looks (to me) now, the Vajra are a weapon, and Galaxy is the person holding the weapon. If that weapon kills someone, who's at fault?

[Radd]

Not really. When you stop and think about it, Frontier's position is completely different. Frontier doesn't have anyone brought up as a Vajra among its ranks who understands how to speak to the Vajra. Ranka understands how to communicate with humans, but the only Vajra that she's been able to talk directly to so far is the Queen - and the Queen initiated the contact. Ranka and Frontier don't understand why her singing affects the Vajra the way that it does, and the only thing that they've been able to figure out how to do is to temporarily disrupt the ability of the Vajra to fight. It's imperfect at best and only lasts as long as she keeps singing.

Further, the red and yellow Vajra don't appear to be intelligent enough to initiate any sort of real communcation with. The only Vajra that might be is the Queen. And we've only seen one of those.

So no, Frontier can't be blamed for the lack of communication.

You are making a lot of assumptions that do not appear to have any foundation. I cannot recall anything that would indicate that the Vajra know anything more, or can any more easily use Ranka to communicate. There has been nothing in the show to indicate that Ranka understands how to bridge communication between the Vajra and the humans. You also speak of Ranka communicating with the Vajra queen, as if there was a scene showing the Queen clearly and easily communicating with Ranka. I cannot recall this scene occuring within the show, are you referring to some source outside the tv series? In episode 14 it was certainly shown that the Vajra have some interest in Ranka. Wouldn't it be quite the twist there if they were, in fact, attempting to use her to communicate and that attempt did not quite succeed before Alto and Brera arrived?

[Radd]

I still find it hard to believe that Brera is not questioned for this actions of destroying evidence and firing on friendlies and not revealing sooner that he was a Galaxy "survivor".

Or did i miss something?

I'm under the impression, and dialogue between Kathy and Ozma seem to reinforce this, that Leon may be covering Brera's tracks.

[sdf2501]

No matter why the Vajra are coming into contact with Frontier, the fact still remains that they're dangerous creatures that are hostile to everyone (except apparently Ranka) and attack on sight. The only fully-grown non-combat Vajra that we've seen so far is the queen. We don't have all of the answers yet, but the Vajra don't appear to have shown much interest in interacting peacefully with any member of the NUNS other than Ranka.

Well, to be fair, if Ai-kun is indeed a baby Vajra, then there's another example of a non-hostile Vajra.

[Gubaba]

I'm under the impression, and dialogue between Kathy and Ozma seem to reinforce this, that Leon may be covering Brera's tracks.

I believe you're right, so, once again, let me say: "Damn Leon and his foo-foo haircut."

I believe he's too ambitious for his own good, and it will be his undoing...the question is how much more trouble will he be able to stir up before he goes down in Icarus-like flames...?

[Final Vegeta]

I still find it hard to believe that Brera is not questioned for this actions of destroying evidence and firing on friendlies and not revealing sooner that he was a Galaxy "survivor".

Or did i miss something?

All the footage reguarding him seems to be confiscated by Leon.

FV

[Radd]

But Cathy knows about the "Foo fighter", and Ozma probably knows what Cathy knows. Hence their suspicions regarding Leon.

[Final Vegeta]

Who said anything at all about gore?

Words like "Serious" and "deep" are thrown a lot when discussing anime, but their actual meaning is muddled. Usually "seriousness" requires blood.

I just think it could have used more buildup, and maintained a little more SDF seriousness before Ranka swooped in, would have made the over-the-topness hit with just the right amount of punch. As it is, like several other aspects of the series it seemed kinda rushed, and Ranka's appearance seemed kinda forced as a result.

There was seriousness in the episode. Like when Sheryl was frustrated because she couldn't give Alto his present, and Alto's friends were worried about him. Also the situation was nearly escalating to devastating consequences since Temjin had access to nukes and Ogotai was ready to fire his big guns.

So, what is it that was really lacking in that episode that doomed it as "unserious"? Zentradi shoot at each other but noone is dying or even hurt. This is what was pointed out in the thread of the episode. This is what I called "gore" (using the first word that came to my mind). Someone gave a convincing answer to that: they were all warning shots, no side was ready to up the level of fight.

As for characterization, the Zentradi (commanders included) gave a very SDF Macross vibe. For all the seriousness you can claim, Kamjin was a doofus. In his first appearance he bet on how many ships he would have bumped into after defolding. Temjin was more serious than him, he just lost some points because of the seven colored carrot

If this is not what you had in mind, then please be very specific.

I enjoyed the episode, just think it could have been done a bit better had it been two episodes rather than just one.

Two episodes would have been overdoing it. Even the time dedicated to the event is a sign of importance. Too much importance and Ranka's appearance would have been anti-climatic.

Anyway, I like crammed episodes.

Also, it seems that the conflict was not all that secondary, as it was something that seems to have been engineered by Galaxy, and fairly integral to their original plans.

It's secondary for the viewers. The primary conflict officially is between Vajra and Frontier. The Gallia 4 crysis had little relevance to Frontier.

FV

[hobbes221]

After seeing this last episode I am convinced that Brera is a jerk. He and his flight stay out of the fight so Ranka can be tested, then when Rabbit-1 has bandits on her tail and Alto rolls in to clear them out Brera is like 'No you suck, its my job to protect her.' So he seems to care more about Grace's plan until Alto is about to show him up. And I'm with the others who think that Brera and the other VF-27s are just a litte too welcomed by the Frontier. Someone, aka Leon has got to be doing some great work to cover that all up. With just the fight between Alto and Klan vs Brera that should be more than enough to raise a few red flags on these guys, and thats not counting all the other run ins with the 27s but like it has been said - coverup. As for how the Vajra seem to have been turned to cannon fodder I am a strong believer that combat it the fastest form of Darwinism out there and the Frontier fleet has adapted to the new threat. To me the Vajra are bioweapons and as of right now I don't feel bad for them, I haven't seen any attempt by them to stop fighting or break free over who is holding them and until I do they will be labeled as weapon systems in my mind. Maybe in later episodes it will be shown what was done to them and more and then maybe my thoughts will change. (I try to keep an open mind.)

[Sumdumgai]

I hope Leon comes to an unpleasant end.

Seems that Brera has amnesia, but has enough underlying memories that he's unconsciously protective of Ranka, and doesn't approve of Alto-hime (and this is under the belief that Brera was Ranka's brother or a brother-like figure back on the 117th fleet).

[Kelsain]

No matter why the Vajra are coming into contact with Frontier, the fact still remains that they're dangerous creatures that are hostile to everyone (except apparently Ranka) and attack on sight. The only fully-grown non-combat Vajra that we've seen so far is the queen. We don't have all of the answers yet, but the Vajra don't appear to have shown much interest in interacting peacefully with any member of the NUNS other than Ranka.

We have seen what the Vajra have done to the Frontier fleet over several months, as well as glimpses and hearsay of what happened to the 117th fleet. As such, the Vajra has earned a reputation as mindless destroyers. (I'm not talking the red & yellows here, those are clearly just following orders and are, well, mindless) We know that Galaxy intended them to attack Frontier, and all of the blood the Vajra have spilled coats the hands of Grace and her cyber-buddies. We also know that the UNG has known about the Vajra since Macross Plus, and that they were experimented on by the 117th fleet. What we do not know yet, is what humanity has done to get the Vajra to be their chess-pieces. Perhaps something so severe that the Vajra either fear or hate humans so much as to attack them whenever possible. If your brother whacks a wasp nest and the wasps attack you, are the wasps to blame?

If a peaceful co-existance with the Vajra is achieved (which, given Alto's constant "there can be only one race" comments, will probably happen), then the only way that it's going to come about is if Frontier successfully initiates communication. The Vajra haven't shown any interest in talking so far. For instance, when they were led to Frontier in episode 14, the first thing that they did was drop out of Fold Space and launch an attack on the fleet.

You never know, the Vajra queens may think it's just as impossible to communicate with us. Ranka is clearly the bridge between the two species. I think the Vajra queen was trying to communicate with her in Ep14, and I bet that she will be the one to reciprocate shortly. SMS, and then Frontier will have to follow suit. I have a suspicion too that Alto will be one of the hardest to convince of such a turn of events.

I am just speculating, of course. But I think that in scifi, a giant fleet of relentless, powerful bad guys killing because they're just bad is meh; but a giant fleet of relentless, powerful bad guys killing with a rational and undestandable set of motives can be awesome. Besides, from the Adoclas fleet to Gigil's sacrifice; Macross has never been black and white, and the enemy has always been reachable. I do not expect Frontier to be any different.

Edited July 26, 2008 by Kelsain

[Chronocidal]

You know, I hate to make a Star Trek reference here, let alone one to Voyager.. but this whole situation is really giving me an "Equinox" vibe.

I really don't like making predictions as to the next episode title; I'd hate to see Ozma get knocked off now... however, seeing Grace's reaction to Ranka's "emotion level" makes me think she's going to pull something underhanded to try and raise that. Setting up Ozma to get killed by the Vajra just to make Ranka want to fight them sounds just like something she'd do. However, even in that scenario, I'd half expect something to not go right, Ozma get saved from Grace by the Vajra, and he comes back to warn SMS about what's really happening.

I still hope it's just something about him acknowledging that she's growing up, and deciding that he can't protect her anymore.

What I do wonder about though is that Grace seems to have shifted her entire plan over to Ranka, leaving Sheryl to fade away. Her original idea was to kill off Sheryl to spread hatred for the Vajra. When that fell through, she switched. I could be completely wrong, but it seems to me like she wouldn't change her plan now.. if she wants to spark a war with the Vajra, killing off their "little queen" would certainly do it, and the more she pushes Ranka into the spotlight, the better, since it'll raise hatred for the Vajra. I'm waiting for her to set up Ranka to die mid-battle. If that is the case, the title may actually be referring to Brera, not Ozma... Brera seems to remember her, and has protected her against Grace's plans before. If Grace tries to kill her, he might defy her outright, and sacrifice himself to save Ranka.

Anyway, loved the ending. I didn't see anything to directly suggest Sheryl joining SMS yet though, aside from the VF-25s and the Isamu hand bit. She does seem to love flying though, so it wouldn't surprise me, and I hope it happens. There's even a paper airplane throw mid-song, which seems to change into a VF-25. But the concept art seen through the ending all looked like outfits we'd seen her wear before in the series. I saw the holosuit from the first episode, and the suit she wore to Gallia 4, but nothing to suggest a combat flight suit.

This particular ending really focused on the AltoxSheryl angle though.. wouldn't surprise me if we see a Ranka version in the same style later on.

Edited July 26, 2008 by Chronocidal