Official Transformers Super Thread 3

[Dobber]

Personally, I like it.

I didn't mind it the other way either, but I do get a kick out of people saying he was too fat before and now he's too girly! Too hard to please some people!

Chris

[David Hingtgen]

. Also I think I need to specify its not the rudders hanging off that bother me, its the two very long peices of plastic at the waist (David what is the techincal aeronautical term for these parts?) which at the end of happen to be rudders that bother me.

Buried in my first reply is that they are the "booms". Specifically, tailbooms. Same concept as a crane's boom. Cranes have the hook at the end of their boom, with the other end connected to the main cab. F-15s have tailfins (all of them) at the end of their booms, which are connected to the main (center) fuselage. The booms run alongside the engines on an F-15, and most planes don't have enough structure there to really have booms. I wouldn't consider a Flanker to have tailbooms, some people might.

Edited June 24, 2006 by David Hingtgen

[Eazy D]

Myriad, that's the funniest pic I've ever seen. SS looks very believable feminine

[Fit For Natalie]

Oh will people stop banging on about cartoon accuracy and using the cartoon as an example of not being accurate to the original toy?

Its the basic design thematics of that have been changed with the addition of the things on the sides of his hips. Not that its inaccurate to this particular form of media or to the original toy.

Its inaccurate to ALL of established universal Earth G1 Starscream (that isn't set in an alternate universe like Infiltration). All of it.

if folks here can sit around and blast people they've never met (K-san) then they open themselves up to being blasted themselves. Turn around is fair play.

if you look at the animated/drawn starscream, his tail fins and rudders disappear when in bot mode.. so the orginal design is wrong. If you look at the original toy, his rudders became big flippers that stuck off the sides of his feet, so the original MPC is still wrong? What is so bad about moving them to the waist when you gain better articulation and posability?

410625[/snapback]

I'm not talking about the fins magically dissapearing in the cartoon. I'm talking about the addition of two large...... things on the side of his hips. That is a much bigger change to the established BASIC G1 Starscream design than the G1 cartoona Marvel comic's removal of the fins in robot mode.

[eugimon]

Oh will people stop banging on about cartoon accuracy and using the cartoon as an example of not being accurate to the original toy?

Its the basic design thematics of that have been changed with the addition of the things on the sides of his hips. Not that its inaccurate to this particular form of media or to the original toy.

Its inaccurate to ALL of established universal Earth G1 Starscream (that isn't set in an alternate universe like Infiltration). All of it.

if folks here can sit around and blast people they've never met (K-san) then they open themselves up to being blasted themselves. Turn around is fair play.

if you look at the animated/drawn starscream, his tail fins and rudders disappear when in bot mode.. so the orginal design is wrong. If you look at the original toy, his rudders became big flippers that stuck off the sides of his feet, so the original MPC is still wrong? What is so bad about moving them to the waist when you gain better articulation and posability?

410625[/snapback]

I'm not talking about the fins magically dissapearing in the cartoon. I'm talking about the addition of two large...... things on the side of his hips. That is a much bigger change to the established BASIC G1 Starscream design than the G1 cartoona Marvel comic's removal of the fins in robot mode.

410843[/snapback]

fine, the original toy has the wings at the hips and the he stands on his rudders. the first draft of the MPC and every drawn version of him are incorrect because the original toy had the wings coming off his hips and were much much lower than where they are now, coming off his torso.

[Chindenathus]

I prefer the previous designs lower legs, and I hope the extra forearm

plates can be popped off or rotated to the underside of the forearm.

The "battle tuxedo tails" along witthe new feet really do strike me as

"His Froatiness" monkeying with the design just like he did with

Hybrid Convoy, only not as cool looking.

Isn't Starscream supposed to be sticking a dagger in Meggie's back?

410661[/snapback]

That happens "later in private".

My thoughts on Eugimon's trolling of this thread is pretty simple:

"Quit feeding the Troll!"

Edited June 24, 2006 by Chindenathus

[LORD KUNGFU]

The funniest thing is how everyone gets worked up over a piece of plastic that will be removable.

410700[/snapback]

you know what else is funny? ---------------Farting

[ComicKaze]

fine, the original toy has the wings at the hips and the he stands on his rudders. the first draft of the MPC and every drawn version of him are incorrect because the original toy had the wings coming off his hips and were much much lower than where they are now, coming off his torso.

410845[/snapback]

Once more, the original toy has no bearing on the masterpiece line. Was Masterpiece Optimus prime designed with a gaping hole in the back? The MP line takes most of it's inspiration from the animated versions as designed by Floro Dery. The wings are that way (including the panels/flaps that flip backward to emulate the stylized raked angle of the animated robot) because it's that way in the cartoon. The intakes can be rotated forward because in the cartoon, the leading edge of the intakes was a right angle in the cartoon's robot mode while the back curved forward. Oh yeah, Starscream doesn't have a giant cone sticking out the back of his head because it wasn't in the cartoon!

Edited June 24, 2006 by ComicKaze

[Fit For Natalie]

Why is eugimon going around in circles?

What I base my argument on is the fact the addition of the hip-things clashes with the rest of Starscream, and as well as every established G1 SS design.

[eriku]

And I say Han Solo was wearing a blue coat on Hoth, BLUE I TELL YOU!!!!

[HoveringCheesecake]

And I say Han Solo was wearing a blue coat on Hoth, BLUE I TELL YOU!!!!

410977[/snapback]

I'd say samurai hip kibble/pylons is a little different.

[Twoducks]

More Starscream

http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/showpost.php...5&postcount=252

I can't wait to get mine!!

*I feel sorry for you kibble haters ... look at the intakes, they now sport "kibble".

Edited June 24, 2006 by Twoducks

[HoveringCheesecake]

I'm also not digging the high heels. Or the ostrich stance he always has. That really ruins it for me. I'll have to display him on his stand instead.

If the hip kibble can be moved, I will be VERY happy. I will buy it regardless, but I still don't like that the froating head did that.

[Metal_Massacre_79]

I don't know what you're complaining about, it looks fine to me. I'd buy one of these without a problem.

[HoveringCheesecake]

I don't know what you're complaining about, it looks fine to me. I'd buy one of these without a problem.

410997[/snapback]

I'm obviously complaining about the kibble on the hips, the knees bent backwards (while he is standing), and the awkward feet. The feet were goofy in the first version, so that isn't my major complaint.

[Metal_Massacre_79]

I guess I should have said I don't know WHY you're complaining. It doesn't look all that bad, especially compared to the Trannies that are being released these days.

[JB0]

I don't know what you're complaining about, it looks fine to me. I'd buy one of these without a problem.

410997[/snapback]

I'm obviously complaining about the kibble on the hips, the knees bent backwards (while he is standing), and the awkward feet. The feet were goofy in the first version, so that isn't my major complaint.

411001[/snapback]

The knees are just a matter of bad posing, for what it's worth.

[HoveringCheesecake]

I don't know what you're complaining about, it looks fine to me. I'd buy one of these without a problem.

410997[/snapback]

I'm obviously complaining about the kibble on the hips, the knees bent backwards (while he is standing), and the awkward feet. The feet were goofy in the first version, so that isn't my major complaint.

411001[/snapback]

The knees are just a matter of bad posing, for what it's worth.

411015[/snapback]

I hope so, but are you certain that it isn't because he is too top heavy? His wings are larger, he has added bulk on his arms, and the tail pylons (or whatever they are called) are mounted further up as well.

[Limbo]

I'm more concerned with the way the chest area is locking together... Is that me or there is a lot of GAP around the cockpit? Take a look on this picture, it looks like that tab is not even snapping together. I hope everything gets fixed and lock solid.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

quoted from that link:

Well, I've had some more time to think about this, and while I still stand by most of my original criticisms and I completely understand why others are very upset about the changes, I've had a change of heart.

I came in here with some pretty strong and lengthly opinions on why this sucked, but honestly, I just can't hate this figure anymore. MP Starscream is one of the best TF's ever. Yeah, the design does deviate quite heavily from the original, but once I saw those digipaints of Skywarp and Thundercracker...it was all over....it's very menacing looking.

What if MP Screamer came with all of his "King" Movie gear? That would rock.

And we have the Classics line coming, and that Starscream has been pretty much left alone as far as any renovations to his original G1 design - aside from a slightly different transformation scheme and plenty o' articulation.

See I told ya. Looks like it won't be such an issue with the TF fans after all.

Some changes might actually be worth it if people can get used to it over time. Like when the X-men got a costume change and updated look (no more mohawk for you storm), the hulk turned grey for a while, the ninja turtles shed thier stupid "archie" comic look from the ole 80s cartoon, batman getting slight mod from when an artist wants to put thier own spin on the character etc (not to mention batmobile changing)

Nostalgia can sometimes get in the way of toy coolness.

Edited June 25, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Knight26]

Where did you see those digi-paints, links man links.

[HoveringCheesecake]

quoted from that link:

Well, I've had some more time to think about this, and while I still stand by most of my original criticisms and I completely understand why others are very upset about the changes, I've had a change of heart.

I came in here with some pretty strong and lengthly opinions on why this sucked, but honestly, I just can't hate this figure anymore. MP Starscream is one of the best TF's ever. Yeah, the design does deviate quite heavily from the original, but once I saw those digipaints of Skywarp and Thundercracker...it was all over....it's very menacing looking.

What if MP Screamer came with all of his "King" Movie gear? That would rock.

And we have the Classics line coming, and that Starscream has been pretty much left alone as far as any renovations to his original G1 design - aside from a slightly different transformation scheme and plenty o' articulation.

See I told ya. Looks like it won't be such an issue with the TF fans after all.

Some changes might actually be worth it if people can get used to it over time. Like when the X-men got a costume change and updated look (no more mohawk for you storm), the hulk turned grey for a while, the ninja turtles shed thier stupid "archie" comic look from the ole 80s cartoon, batman getting slight mod from when an artist wants to put thier own spin on the character etc (ie batmobile for example)

Nostalgia can sometimes get in the way of toy coolness.

411045[/snapback]

Hah. Have you bothered to read allspark.com and tfw2005.com??? The majority of the fans *aren't* happy. I'm not happy either, but I will still buy it. Here's hoping the crap on his hips can be moved.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Yeah I know, but still..over time they will accept the change I bet.

^

Starscream boxart from botchthecrab.com. See all that crap on the bottom of the leg? I think it would be impractical for a robot to actually move around with it there. Unlike the cartoon a toy can't have that stuff disapear. Personally a little change is not such a big deal for me since I am more "it has to be cool as a toy" person. Much cleaner to have hip armor on him imo.

Like you I do hope they make stuff optional though. Would probably increase the value of the toy that way. But I still am just turned off by robots having too many bits sticking off thier body.

more nostalgiac 80s boxart here:

http://botchthecrab.com/archive/teletran.a...ticon&year=1984

again:

too much crap at the feet. If the robot falls over it during a fight, it would snap that part off. Very awkward imo.

Not all robots had bad messy robot modes with bits hanging off them though:

^

perfect. Clean humanoid shape, no need for stuff to disapear etc

Edited June 25, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[eriku]

That's one of the reasons Soundwave has been my favorite TF next to Prime, everything just works so well with the design, which is mostly because it's easier to turn a box into a robot than a sleek fighter jet. I'm crapping myself with anticipation waiting to see the Classics Soundwave. Hopefully it won't be a big letdown like Galaxy Force Soundwave.

Edited June 25, 2006 by eriku

[eugimon]

Why is eugimon going around in circles?

What I base my argument on is the fact the addition of the hip-things clashes with the rest of Starscream, and as well as every established G1 SS design.

410941[/snapback]

Not going around in circles, I've been pretty clear.. people here are whinning, saying kawamori deviated from G1 starscream, when there are already at least two versions of what G1 starscream should look like. The actual toy, and the cartoon. The cartoon is full of anime magic, with disapear parts and the toy was a kibble filled mess with giant blue boxing gloves.

the MPC starscream, in his current form, looks highly posable with feet that can actually hold and accpet poses because it doesn't have a giant fin hanging off the back.

Meanwhile, you have people ranting that the MPC isn't faithful to the cartoon.. yup, thats true, but the original MPC design wasn't either, as the cartoon doesn't have fins and bits hanging off his legs. Then you have others ranting that it's not true to the original toy.. well, that's true too, since the original design had the wings hanging off his hips and giant duck feet.

Obviously, this design is one that cannot work in real life because the cartoon designers pretty much ignored everything but the most basic transformation concept of the toy.

If you want something that is 100% cartoon accurate, you have to have either removable parts or severly compromise the posability and the dies profile of the toy because of the tail and rudder... the booms hanging off the hips lets starscream have proper legs of a decent length. Is it a change? sure. But really, all this talk to running kawamori up the flag pole, or saying he's turning starscream into a valkyrie is just absurd.

But hey, if you want to sit around and argue about why one of scratchy's ribs makes two distinct different sounds, by all means continue on fanboys, continue on.

[eriku]

But hey, if you want to sit around and argue about why one of scratchy's ribs makes two distinct different sounds, by all means continue on fanboys, continue on.

411078[/snapback]

Oooh, WAY better than my Han Solo blue coat vs. brown coat reference!

Now, this bit of info may have been pushed out of my brain by all of the recent fuss, but has there been a confirmation on Starscream's scale or size? I seem to remember it being reported that he's not the same height as Masterpiece Prime. Personally, I think it would be cool if he was in scale with the Yammie 1/48 VF-1 and 1/60 VF-0.

[JB0]

That's one of the reasons Soundwave has been my favorite TF next to Prime, everything just works so well with the design, which is mostly because it's easier to turn a box into a robot than a sleek fighter jet.  I'm crapping myself with anticipation waiting to see the Classics Soundwave.  Hopefully it won't be a big letdown like Galaxy Force Soundwave.

411072[/snapback]

Soundwave is indeed a clean transformation. No loose parts aside from the missiles(his gun becomes batteries, how clever is that?!), no goofy lumps, no nothing. His chest is a bit oddly-shaped, but that's the only gripe I have aside from articulation, and that hits almost every pre-BeastWars toy.

I never got him, but he was high on my list of wants.

I was also always a Shockwave fan. He was just so... he was Shockwave, for QBert's sake! How can anyone NOT like him?

Seriously, between the fact that he made an awesome raygun and that he had some articulation(for the era, he was pretty much the pinnacle of good proportions and posabability), I think I was doomed from the moment I opened the box.

Now, this bit of info may have been pushed out of my brain by all of the recent fuss, but has there been a confirmation on Starscream's scale or size?  I seem to remember it being reported that he's not the same height as Masterpiece Prime.  Personally, I think it would be cool if he was in scale with the Yammie 1/48 VF-1 and 1/60 VF-0.

If I recall, his scale is radically diffrent than Prime's precisely SO he can stand close to the same height as Prime. Jets are a lot bigger than semis, so if he was the same scale, he'd be able to stomp Prime .

[HoveringCheesecake]

Soundwave > everyone. I've always wanted a G1 Soundwave and a casette army. Hopefully the classics toy doesn't blow.

[wolfx]

From those new pics, i'm quite curious how the nosecones go all the way to the side of the intakes though.

[Dobber]

I don't think what we see on the side of the intakes is the nose cone, Those are the Fast-pack type things (sorry can't remember the correct term) that are now on the sides of the fuselage, like an F-15E.

I believe the Noce cone is around the groin area, and is probably pointing upwards on his back underneath the large back plate.

Chris

[Fit For Natalie]

In other news, Classics Jetfire has been confirmed to be the Jetfire seen in the upcoming Stormbringer comic book as seen below.

Described by Kickback at TFW2005.com as:

"This figure could be the best figure in the line. If you enjoyed the G1 style for the jet mode, you're in luck - it's pretty much the same, even with the extra red armor/weaponry thingy whatever (I do not own a G1 Jetfire). In robot mode, he resembles mostly the G1 toy, but does have what feels like a G1 cartoon chest. Apparently he has two heads/faces? (like in War Within, a "battle mask" or whatever, so he has both cartoon and G1 toy faces/heads). Not entirely sure, couldn't tell in the picture, was actually told that."

No pics of the toy yet. Will be Voyager class, so will probably be around 20cm tall in robot mode.

[Vermillion One]

The Jetfire art looks pretty good. Anyone have a pic of the plane mode?

As for SS, it still looks good, just not as clean as before in robot mode. I prefer TF's in bot mode and valks in plane mode, so I wish it would have stayed true to the original prototype, but I am still going to buy one.

[wolfx]

Tch.... as long as it doesn't look like the War Within Titanium Jetfire.

[Fit For Natalie]

We haven't seen any pics of its alt mode yet as the comic hasn't been released.

Tch.... as long as it doesn't look like the War Within Titanium Jetfire.

411185[/snapback]

Well, Don Figueroa designed both of them.

[Abnolds]

I'm gonna get both jetfire's because....It's jetfire. The original figure is what got me into Macross, so, the character is special to me.