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45 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

It's also bad luck to rename a ship.

In all fairness, that's never stopped them before.

The USS Defiant we saw in the fleet museum was originally the USS Sao Paulo.  Several different explanations of the Enterprise-A's origin indicate she was also a recently built but rechristened ship and cite her original name as USS Ti-Ho or USS Atlantis.  There have been a few mentions of the various Enterprises being slated to take other names before the previous one bit the dust and being formally commissioned under a different name than intended.

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3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

In all fairness, that's never stopped them before.

The USS Defiant we saw in the fleet museum was originally the USS Sao Paulo.  Several different explanations of the Enterprise-A's origin indicate she was also a recently built but rechristened ship and cite her original name as USS Ti-Ho or USS Atlantis.  There have been a few mentions of the various Enterprises being slated to take other names before the previous one bit the dust and being formally commissioned under a different name than intended.

I thought the original name of the Enterprise A was the Yorktown? 

 

The finale was okay, but overall was very disappointed that the Enterprise-F didn't get much of any screen time for those of us who were fans of the Odyssey class. I also feel that the rename to such a ship design was sorta a big step down. 

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3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

That doesn't track with what's in the previous seasons of this very show... if such convenient drones existed, Starfleet would not be staffing its shipyards with massive numbers of Soong-type androids from Maddox's lab.

Right, and what did they replace them with? The simple answer is we don't know. I'm speculating/assuming that they have moved on to 'dumb' drones that follow simple construction procedures with extremely limited AI. I have seen nothing to prove that, but I have seen nothing to counter that either. Until shown differently, IMO, the repair yard inside the Star Fleet  Museum uses a majority of dumb drones with sentient being oversight that do most of the work. They work 24/7, 365 a year and rebuilt the Big D as parts became available and were approved by Star Fleet command for their use on the rebuilt ship.

 

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20 minutes ago, Hikuro said:

I thought the original name of the Enterprise A was the Yorktown? 

Yorktown was the first/original name proposed for what eventually became TOS's USS Enterprise.

Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise lists the Enterprise-A's original name as USS Ti-Ho (NCC-1798), a newly-built Constitution-class ship constructed for the transwarp program that didn't pan out and renamed before ever formally being launched.  The FASA RPG lists it as USS Atlantis (NCC-1786).

I did a bit of research, and found that AMT/Ertl's model kit did claim the Enterprise-A was the USS Yorktown (NCC-1717), but that wouldn't tally with it being a new-built ship since the Yorktown was one of the original twelve.

 

20 minutes ago, Hikuro said:

The finale was okay, but overall was very disappointed that the Enterprise-F didn't get much of any screen time for those of us who were fans of the Odyssey class. I also feel that the rename to such a ship design was sorta a big step down. 

Kind of a dick move to introduce a new Enterprise and then

Spoiler

almost immediately destroy it like that.

 

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17 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Kind of a dick move to introduce a new Enterprise and then

Eh, it's not the first time.

Spoiler

Enterprise-C 

But speaking of Enterprises with no history, I think after Strange New Worlds they should do a show about the Enterprise-B, in the same style.

Oldschool swashbuckling and exploration, without much risk of "violating canon", since that era's largely a blank slate. As long as they don't lay into the Borg yet again, it'll be hard to do wrong by the canon. And making Actual Star Trek, starring an Excelsior? Yes, please!

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18 minutes ago, JB0 said:

Eh, it's not the first time.

That one was already a posthumous ship before it ever appeared though.

 

18 minutes ago, JB0 said:

But speaking of Enterprises with no history, I think after Strange New Worlds they should do a show about the Enterprise-B, in the same style.

Oldschool swashbuckling and exploration, without much risk of "violating canon", since that era's largely a blank slate. As long as they don't lay into the Borg yet again, it'll be hard to do wrong by the canon. And making Actual Star Trek, starring an Excelsior? Yes, please!

Only if it comes out on Tuesdays.

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I saw the entire episode this morning and there are more than one occasions that let my head scratching which leads me still baffled. 

Spoiler

Was there a real reason why Jack was asked to be the ship’s councillor by Seven??  There’s got to be a reason and not just crappy writing and hope it work’s after all. 

I sort of guessed that this will wrap up as it’s a TNG based series. 

Edited by borgified
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gawd, if Beverly Crusher wasn't so ancient and let's face it, used, she might be waifu material.  Well, at least Picard is going to be too busy with Laris

Spoiler

Let's see, she is all of a sudden a badass tactical officer, a science officer, a genius with transporters (shove off Colm Meaney, nobody gave a crap about you when you were chief), and managed to develop a method of screening out changelings as head of Starfleet Medical (did I hear that right?)...   Yes Sir, Admiral Crusher, there is nothing on this earth (or anywhere else) sexier, believe me, gentlemen, than a woman you have to salute in the morning.  Promote 'em all, I say, 'cause this is true: if you haven't gotten... well, you know how that goes, you're just letting the best in life pass you by.  

By the way, Beverly, how are you with a chainsaw?  Just in case there is a zombie apocalypse. 

As for why Jack ended up where he did at the end of the show... see above, let's just call him Colonel Jack.

Edited by kalvasflam
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18 hours ago, borgified said:
Spoiler

Was there a real reason why Jack was asked to be the ship’s councillor by Seven??

 There’s got to be a reason and not just crappy writing and hope it work’s after all. 

If you're looking for a deeper reason than "crappy writing" you are looking in vain.

 

14 hours ago, kalvasflam said:

gawd, if Beverly Crusher wasn't so ancient and let's face it, used, she might be waifu material.

... that is quite astonishingly sexist.  Shame on you.

 

14 hours ago, kalvasflam said:
Spoiler

Let's see, she is all of a sudden a badass tactical officer, a science officer, a genius with transporters (shove off Colm Meaney, nobody gave a crap about you when you were chief), and managed to develop a method of screening out changelings as head of Starfleet Medical (did I hear that right?)... 

Well she has spent the last twenty years living rough on a beat-up, secondhand, junker of a starship she got under the table from Starfleet Medical on the edges of Federation space and occasionally having to content with Federation and non-Federation law enforcement trying to arrest her criminal son.  It's not surprising she'd have become quite practiced with starship-based and man-portable weapons.  (It does raise some awkward questions about her adherence to the Hippocratic Oath though... something something do no harm.)

(And last we saw our boy Miles O'Brien he was headed to take up a teaching job at Starfleet Academy in San Francisco... odds are he's the one she called to straighten out Starfleet's transporter mess.  It'd certainly explain why he's celebrated as the greatest Starfleet hero of all time in the far future.)

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Alright, that was pretty good. I liked it for the most part, despite it's flaws. I think the finale could have been about 10 or 15 min longer, to give some more time to the battle and to lengthen out the resolution, as it did feel a little quick to me. It wasn't as good as Episodes 6-8, but it was a nice finish.

Spoiler

Some things it didn't need was Jack being in full Borg-costume. Their tech was supposed to have evolved, so he should have looked just like the others, though maybe with completely black eyes the whole time.

The Borg Queen looked good though, for the most part. Sometimes when she moved you could the prosthetic lower half being more defined, but she looked creepy. Like some undead reverent, which I guess is a good description. Way to go Admiral Janeway! They did the voice pretty good to and it was nice getting Alice Krieg back for that.

Nice seeing the Titan finally letting loose with all her guns too. And they said she didn't have it in her! Would have liked to have seen more though. And have a better way of escaping the Formation protocol. Line of sight? They are an advanced race with access to subspace technology, and they relied on LOS?! Personally, I would have just said that something with the cloaking device was interfering with the protocol and left it at that. No other Star Fleet ship had cloak so that could explain why she was the only one to break loose.

Cool seeing the Big D in action one last time before being parked at the Museum! Very Star Wars-esq turning and burning through the Death S-  Borg Cube... Not bad though. In the end, I don't mind it. I SQUEEED!

One thing I would change would be to not have Jack joining Star Fleet. For one thing, as noted before, there are a lot criminal records there to get through. Though I guess Star Fleet could have ignored that in order to get another recruit to fill the ranks. And I think it would have been more original to have him not don the uniform. He didn't seem too enamored with it to start with.

As to his placing as 'counselor to the captain,' Seven is the Captain and it's her decision. Also, very cool that seven is the Captain and of the Enterprise-G!

That I liked!* When they were coming upon the Titan, I was half fearing she was going to be renamed USS Picard! (Don't worry, I'm sure there will be a new Titan. Maybe a Luna class...?)

Also a good scene with Tuvok.

*That does raise the question, just how long are starships supposed to last? The Enterprise-F couldn't have been twenty years old and they were already decommissioning her? Unless there was something very wrong with the ship itself, that is a short life-span! For that reason, I prefer to think that Enterprise-J just didn't survive the fight. She got blowed up while trying to take out Spacedock. Problem solved!

And I had been considering buying another Horner Shipyards Neo-Constitution class, and seeing her wearing the name Enterprise cinched it! A gallant name for a gallant ship! Ordered!

enterpriseg3-900x381.jpg

 

 

 

Edited by Thom
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As I predicted Star Fleet does have a major staffing issue. Crusher gets 2 step promotion despite not being in Star Fleet for over 20 years and I assume has been practicing outlaw medicine without a license. She's a brilliant doctor but pretty sure she would have been disqualified for her less the legal activities during the past 20 years if staffing wasn't an issue.

There's 7 of 9. She was a former Borg/civilian helping out on Voyager. Next some kind of 3rd party Texas Ranger. She joins Star Fleet bypassing the academy system and assigned as a 1st Officer.

Raffi I assume attended the academy and spent years in Starfleet. Earning her whatever former position, she had before leaving to become a trailer trash meth head. Star Fleet lets her back in with a position of authority.

Rios likewise had a Star Fleet career and left to be a freelance ship captain and I assume wasn't running a 100% legal operation.

Star Fleet of this timeline must have been in really bad shape even before this series took place.

During the extended endings. They didn't feature a funeral scene for Shaw or Ro (who also was forgiven by Star Fleet and allowed back in).

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36 minutes ago, Thom said:

Alright, that was pretty good. I liked it for the most part, despite it's flaws. I think the finale could have been about 10 or 15 min longer, to give some more time to the battle and to lengthen out the resolution, as it did feel a little quick to me. It wasn't as good as Episodes 6-8, but it was a nice finish.

  Hide contents

Some things it didn't need was Jack being in full Borg-costume. Their tech was supposed to have evolved, so he should have looked just like the others, though maybe with completely black eyes the whole time.

The Borg Queen looked good though, for the most part. Sometimes when she moved you could the prosthetic lower half being more defined, but she looked creepy. Like some undead reverent, which I guess is a good description. Way to go Admiral Janeway! They did the voice pretty good to and it was nice getting Alice Krieg back for that.

Nice seeing the Titan finally letting loose with all her guns too. And they said she didn't have it in her! Would have liked to have seen more though. And have a better way of escaping the Formation protocol. Line of sight? They are an advanced race with access to subspace technology, and they relied on LOS?! Personally, I would have just said that something with the cloaking device was interfering with the protocol and left it at that. No other Star Fleet ship had cloak so that could explain why she was the only one to break loose.

Cool seeing the Big D in action one last time before being parked at the Museum! Very Star Wars-esq turning and burning through the Death S-  Borg Cube... Not bad though. In the end, I don't mind it. I SQUEEED!

One thing I would change would be to not have Jack joining Star Fleet. For one thing, as noted before, there are a lot criminal records there to get through. Though I guess Star Fleet could have ignored that in order to get another recruit to fill the ranks. And I think it would have been more original to have him not don the uniform. He didn't seem too enamored with it to start with.

As to his placing as 'counselor to the captain,' Seven is the Captain and it's her decision. Also, very cool that seven is the Captain and of the Enterprise-G!

That I liked!* When they were coming upon the Titan, I was half fearing she was going to be renamed USS Picard! (Don't worry, I'm sure there will be a new Titan. Maybe a Luna class...?)

Also a good scene with Tuvok.

*That does raise the question, just how long are starships supposed to last? The Enterprise-F couldn't have been twenty years old and they were already decommissioning her? Unless there was something very wrong with the ship itself, that is a short life-span! For that reason, I prefer to think that Enterprise-J just didn't survive the fight. She got blowed up while trying to take out Spacedock. Problem solved!

And I had been considering buying another Horner Shipyards Neo-Constitution class, and seeing her wearing the name Enterprise cinched it! A gallant name for a gallant ship! Ordered!

enterpriseg3-900x381.jpg

 

 

 

On that note:

Spoiler

has anyone noticed that the captain of the E-G is Seven of Nine, and the G is the Seventh successor to the Enterprise name?

 

Edited by pengbuzz
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Overall I really liked it. I personally didn’t care for watching the D zip through the Cubes interior. That is ALOT of empty space in there then.🤷🏻‍♂️
 

As for the ships, naming, decommissioning, etc. well it’s not unheard of for relatively new/newer ships to be decommissioned and mothballed early. Happens pretty often actually. Perhaps the Odyssey class had issues or Star Fleet decided that the flexibility of smaller ships like the Connie III class would be able to be manufactured faster to fill in the gaps in the fleet. Now I would’ve preferred the Titan remaining the Titan and the Enterprise G just being another Connie III being commissioned, as the fleet obviously has suffered both in ships and personnel. Not only older officers being executed by the assimilated youngsters but I wouldn’t be surprised if many of those youngsters resigned due to trauma. So 7 getting command makes enough sense to me as does Jack being accelerated through his training.

Chris

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36 minutes ago, Thom said:

Alright, that was pretty good. I liked it for the most part, despite it's flaws. I think the finale could have been about 10 or 15 min longer, to give some more time to the battle and to lengthen out the resolution, as it did feel a little quick to me. It wasn't as good as Episodes 6-8, but it was a nice finish.

  Hide contents

Some things it didn't need was Jack being in full Borg-costume. Their tech was supposed to have evolved, so he should have looked just like the others, though maybe with completely black eyes the whole time.

The Borg Queen looked good though, for the most part. Sometimes when she moved you could the prosthetic lower half being more defined, but she looked creepy. Like some undead reverent, which I guess is a good description. Way to go Admiral Janeway! They did the voice pretty good to and it was nice getting Alice Krieg back for that.

Nice seeing the Titan finally letting loose with all her guns too. And they said she didn't have it in her! Would have liked to have seen more though. And have a better way of escaping the Formation protocol. Line of sight? They are an advanced race with access to subspace technology, and they relied on LOS?! Personally, I would have just said that something with the cloaking device was interfering with the protocol and left it at that. No other Star Fleet ship had cloak so that could explain why she was the only one to break loose.

Cool seeing the Big D in action one last time before being parked at the Museum! Very Star Wars-esq turning and burning through the Death S-  Borg Cube... Not bad though. In the end, I don't mind it. I SQUEEED!

One thing I would change would be to not have Jack joining Star Fleet. For one thing, as noted before, there are a lot criminal records there to get through. Though I guess Star Fleet could have ignored that in order to get another recruit to fill the ranks. And I think it would have been more original to have him not don the uniform. He didn't seem too enamored with it to start with.

As to his placing as 'counselor to the captain,' Seven is the Captain and it's her decision. Also, very cool that seven is the Captain and of the Enterprise-G!

That I liked!* When they were coming upon the Titan, I was half fearing she was going to be renamed USS Picard! (Don't worry, I'm sure there will be a new Titan. Maybe a Luna class...?)

Also a good scene with Tuvok.

*That does raise the question, just how long are starships supposed to last? The Enterprise-F couldn't have been twenty years old and they were already decommissioning her? Unless there was something very wrong with the ship itself, that is a short life-span! For that reason, I prefer to think that Enterprise-J just didn't survive the fight. She got blowed up while trying to take out Spacedock. Problem solved!

And I had been considering buying another Horner Shipyards Neo-Constitution class, and seeing her wearing the name Enterprise cinched it! A gallant name for a gallant ship! Ordered!

enterpriseg3-900x381.jpg

 

 

 

I am going to do the same with Horner’s, but don’t see the option for the E-G yet. Yesterdays update said it will be an option in a few days.

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52 minutes ago, Thom said:

That does raise the question, just how long are starships supposed to last? The Enterprise-F couldn't have been twenty years old and they were already decommissioning her?

Wouldn't be the shortest. Enterprise-A was ten years, though she WAS established as a mechanically-troubled ship.

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All in all, I think the thing I'm enjoying most from the finale is all the people dragging it on Facebook, Reddit, Discord, etc. for being so very Star Wars between the...

Spoiler

"Somehow, the Borg Queen returned" schtick complete with the same "decaying old enemy on life support" thing played exactly the same way, Jean-Luc going into the cube to find the good in Darth Jack, and the Enterprise-D flying inside the cube to blow up the glowing shoot-here target at its creamy center like in Return of the Jedi.

Picard may be a mediocre series that will probably be quickly forgotten, but hot damn if season three hasn't become a fountain of memes.

 

1 hour ago, Roy Focker said:

As I predicted Star Fleet does have a major staffing issue. Crusher gets 2 step promotion despite not being in Star Fleet for over 20 years and I assume has been practicing outlaw medicine without a license. She's a brilliant doctor but pretty sure she would have been disqualified for her less the legal activities during the past 20 years if staffing wasn't an issue.

She did get a pardon... but Star Trek does have a tendency to give various characters multi-rank promotions without a clear justification:

  • James. T. Kirk received a two-rank promotion from Captain to Rear Admiral after concluding his five-year mission aboard the Enterprise.
  • Jean-Luc Picard received a four-rank promotion from Captain directly to full Admiral after assuming command of the Romulan relief effort.
  • Kelvin timeline James T. Kirk received a SIX rank promotion from Cadet directly to Captain after Star Trek (2009), though he was demoted shortly thereafter.

Beckett Mariner would qualify for that list too, if you consider there was no merited justification for her promotion to Lieutenant... that it was a purely malicious move on the part of her captain to torture her into transferring.  (The promotions granted to the ex-Maquis on Voyager don't count, since there WAS a clear rationale for those.)

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4 hours ago, JB0 said:

Wouldn't be the shortest. Enterprise-A was ten years, though she WAS established as a mechanically-troubled ship.

I was under the impression the actual ship that was renamed as the Enterprise-A was actually nearly as old as the original, and had just been through the Constitution class update/refit more recently.

She also got a pretty good shellacking from Kang's prototype, so it probably made sense to just restore her to display status, and be done with the hull, since it was already being succeeded by much more advanced designs at that point.  By that point they probably didn't even make the parts to repair her. :p 

Edited by Chronocidal
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1 hour ago, Chronocidal said:

I was under the impression the actual ship that was renamed as the Enterprise-A was actually nearly as old as the original, and had just been through the Constitution class update/refit more recently.

She also got a pretty good shellacking from Kang's prototype, so it probably made sense to just restore her to display status, and be done with the hull, since it was already being succeeded by much more advanced designs at that point.  By that point they probably didn't even make the parts to repair her. :p 

They have replicators and blueprints.

*munches replicated cheeseburger*

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5 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

I was under the impression the actual ship that was renamed as the Enterprise-A was actually nearly as old as the original, and had just been through the Constitution class update/refit more recently.

I thought she was a newly laid-down Constitution hull. It would be weird to take a ship with a service history and just go "We're renaming her to Enterprise." Disrespectful to the heritage of both. Even the renaming of the Sao Paulo to Defiant(no -A, though it is there in my heart) was a fresh from the yards ship.

 

5 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

She also got a pretty good shellacking from Kang's prototype, so it probably made sense to just restore her to display status, and be done with the hull, since it was already being succeeded by much more advanced designs at that point.  By that point they probably didn't even make the parts to repair her. :p 

New systems were part of the problem, if I recall. The -A was built to the refit spec, and the 1701 refit had stripped her to the bulkheads(LEWD!) and replaced virtually everything inside.

But NOTHING on the -A worked out of spacedock when she was launched, and she had to turn right back around and head home for repairs on her first flight(this more than anything else is probably why people hate Star Trek V). I think she was just a lemon of a starship.

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11 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

On that note:

  Hide contents

has anyone noticed that the captain of the E-G is Seven of Nine, and the G is the Seventh successor to the Enterprise name?

 

Hadn't noticed that! Intentionally or not, that's pretty nice.

11 hours ago, Dobber said:

I am going to do the same with Horner’s, but don’t see the option for the E-G yet. Yesterdays update said it will be an option in a few days.

When I ordered the second, I assumed he might, but I also sent a separate email to request it just in case. 

12 hours ago, Roy Focker said:

....

During the extended endings. They didn't feature a funeral scene for Shaw or Ro (who also was forgiven by Star Fleet and allowed back in).

One of the reasons I wish it had been just slightly longer, to give some time to show the broader after-effects of what happened.

11 hours ago, JB0 said:

Wouldn't be the shortest. Enterprise-A was ten years, though she WAS established as a mechanically-troubled ship.

 

2 hours ago, JB0 said:

I thought she was a newly laid-down Constitution hull. It would be weird to take a ship with a service history and just go "We're renaming her to Enterprise." Disrespectful to the heritage of both. Even the renaming of the Sao Paulo to Defiant(no -A, though it is there in my heart) was a fresh from the yards ship.

...

Which is why I prefer to think of her as the re-christened Yorktown. Another Connie being retired, but just renamed and kept in service to honor and reward the crew of the 1701. I imagine her as being finally retired after Kirk and crew did.

10 hours ago, sh9000 said:

...

74E62E4E-21A0-4C2C-8CF6-ADAE1BE2EB01.jpeg.b0c807c801ac6395e2e447233d7dc74e.jpeg

Shaw on the bridge.

He's not dead, he's battling evil in another dimension!

9 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

Let's face it: Shaw got screwed.

Let's face it, Shaw came across as an adversarial captain. Despite his personal recommendation seen at the end, he was allowing his past trauma to color his working relationship with Seven. He was having a 'redemption' arc though that was sadly cut short, cause I was really starting to like him.

7 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

I was under the impression the actual ship that was renamed as the Enterprise-A was actually nearly as old as the original, and had just been through the Constitution class update/refit more recently.

She also got a pretty good shellacking from Kang's prototype, so it probably made sense to just restore her to display status, and be done with the hull, since it was already being succeeded by much more advanced designs at that point.  By that point they probably didn't even make the parts to repair her. :p 

Makes more sense than a new build of a forty year old design.

 

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4 hours ago, JB0 said:

I thought she was a newly laid-down Constitution hull. It would be weird to take a ship with a service history and just go "We're renaming her to Enterprise." Disrespectful to the heritage of both. Even the renaming of the Sao Paulo to Defiant(no -A, though it is there in my heart) was a fresh from the yards ship.

The closest we have to an official statement is that she was a new build for the transwarp program that was cancelled and subsequently foisted on Kirk.  An engine test article the yards threw together to test a transwarp engine, then subsequently gutted and fitted with a conventional warp drive system to "reward" Kirk for being such a pain in the fundiment.

That the USS Titan-A got renamed Enterprise is probably one of the things about the finale I like the least.  The Titan was instrumental in saving the day, renaming her feels pretty disrespectful to her legacy (esp. considering she was named in honor of another very influential ship).

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2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

That the USS Titan-A got renamed Enterprise is probably one of the things about the finale I like the least.  The Titan was instrumental in saving the day, renaming her feels pretty disrespectful to her legacy (esp. considering she was named in honor of another very influential ship).

Agreed, like I posted earlier….I wish it was just another Connie III coming on line instead.

Chris

Edited by Dobber
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45 minutes ago, Thom said:

Anyone else notice the Big-D still had the scarring on the front arc of the saucer? 

Yeah, she's got dirt stains on the underside too.

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