eugimon Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 "do you remember your mother. Your REAL mother?" She knows. easily explained: blah, blah, vision through the Force, blah, blah, blah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 easily explained: blah, blah, vision through the Force, blah, blah, blah. FANWANK: It's good for what ails you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugimon Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 FANWANK: It's good for what ails you... FANWANK is how I personally justify the prequels, really-really elaborate fanwank... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 FANWANK is how I personally justify the prequels, really-really elaborate fanwank... I wish I could do the same... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uxi Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Agreed. And it doesn't fit at all with Leia's dialogue in Jedi. Actually it does, doesn't it? IIRC, Luke is crying the whole time while infant Leia clearly has her eyes open and is looking at her mother.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Show me canonical proof, and I'll believe it. Already did, she hadn't yet come to the revelation that she was Luke's sister, so the mother she had to be speaking of was Bail's wifu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynaman Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 This whole thing reminds me of a Benny Hill skit. Benny is playing an independent film maker being interviewed by Patrick Mcgeee... Mcgee - "You switch from color to black and white when she realizes her world is crashing down, brilliant" Hill- "No, No, No, we run out of color film..." Mcgee - "The leading lady was perfect, except for her lisp, what made you decide to give here a lisp?" Hill - "I did not give her a lisp, she had a lisp" Mcgee - "You searched all England for a girl with a Lisp" Hill - "no, she was the producer's girlfriend..." Sounds incredibly the same as the justifactions being used to cover up the plot holes of the Star Wars prequals... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Already did, she hadn't yet come to the revelation that she was Luke's sister, so the mother she had to be speaking of was Bail's wifu. Is that canonical? Or is it your inference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Togo Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Is that canonical? Or is it your inference? Ithink it's a pretty safe assumption to make. Out of all the continuity problems that arose from the prequels, this isn't one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Ithink it's a pretty safe assumption to make. Out of all the continuity problems that arose from the prequels, this isn't one of them. Huh...for you, maybe. For me, it stuck out like a sore thumb... Which ones would you say were worse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynaman Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Which ones would you say were worse? Not worse, and I think the line got snipped from later copies of the movie, but Obi Wan says he never owned droids before, especially not new ones like these - the new ones bit was snipped from later releases of Star Wars (or I am remembering something that never happened, really hard to tell these days). Vader Not remembering 3PO or R2 is pretty bad too. The worst is how they worked around the "Vader murdered your father line", I'd have to say that counts as the worst continuity problem. (Common George, fess up and admit that Vader was not originally Luke's father, that you came up with it between Star Wars and Empire, and I'll gladly forgive all) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Togo Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Obi-Wan never says anything about the droids being new. And I still don't understand the issue with Leia remembering her mother. We see her adoptive mother in III. Leia says her mother died when she was young, and her father is the only family member mentioned when Alderaan is destroyed. She didn't know she was adopted, there isn't a continuity problem. Obi-Wan not remembering the droids, the whole issue about who instructed who (Yoda teaching all younglings doesn't fix it), Anakin's age, the Clone Trooper/Storm Trooper issue... Jesus, I could sit here and list problems all day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanzilla Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I agree with Keith on this one. She is talking about Mrs. Organa. They even made her dark haired like Leia mentioned in ROTJ. As for being sad, I think it is the Republic and the freedoms her husband fought for were gone. Surely that effected her greatly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Okay...thanks, guys. One of my favorite scenes in Jedi is now ruined... Luke asks about HIS mother, hears about someone COMPLETELY UNRELATED to him....and thinks he's hearing about his mother. That scene is now officially pointless and misleading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanzilla Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Okay...thanks, guys. One of my favorite scenes in Jedi is now ruined... Luke asks about HIS mother, hears about someone COMPLETELY UNRELATED to him....and thinks he's hearing about his mother. That scene is now officially pointless and misleading. Since you put it that way.... it does kind of ruin the moment. Oh well, Luke will never know the difference, but it will definitely make Leia stop and think about it once in a while. "Wait, was that really my mom?" Next time I watch Jedi, I am going to think about this converation now. Thinking poor Luke, isn't even being told about his actual mother... poor Leia, doesn't know her either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF5SS Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Boba Fett, do you remember your real father? Cloning Tube #1138. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronocidal Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Ok, if you want to get really picky, I think the lines went like this... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Obi-wan: What brings you out this far? Luke: This little droid. Seems to be searching for his former master, but I've never seen such devotion in a droid before. He claims to be the property of an Obi-wan Kenobi. Is he a relative of yours, do you know what he's talking about? Obi-wan: Obi-wan Kenobi.. now that's a name I have not heard in a long time.. a long time. Luke: I think my uncle knows him. He said he was dead. Obi-wan: Oh he's not dead... not yet. Luke: Then you know him? Obi-wan: Well of course I know him, he's me. (Artoo seems surprised for some reason, that is a problem.) Obi-wan: I haven't gone by the name of Obi-wan since, oh, before you were born. Luke: Well, then the droid does belong to you. Obi-wan: I don't seem to remember ever owning a droid.. very interesting. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yeah, I scare myself with how much of the movies I can recite. I don't see an issue with Obi-wan's lines, because technically, he never did own a droid, not these two at least. Threepio was built and owned by Anakin, then by the Lars family when his mother was freed, then back to Anakin in EpII, then Captain Antilles in EpIII, then back to the Lars family again in EpIV. Artoo was property of the Naboo government, and became attached to Padme and Anakin in EpI. I don't recall whether he was with Padme or Anakin at the beginning of EpII, but he was with them the entire movie. By EpIII, he was attached to Anakin as his copilot, and stayed with Padme when Anakin went all evil. At that point, he wasn't really owned by anyone, but Obi-wan turned him over to Captain Antilles when Padme died. After that, he went along with Threepio to the Lars family. It's probably splitting hairs, but if you consider them owned by Anakin and Padme at the end of EpIII, they'd be passed down to Luke and Leia, and in the interim, Bail Organa was the one who turned them over to Captain Antilles. There's just huge glaring problem with all of this though. Artoo didn't have his memory erased.. not right away at least. He must have at some point though for anything to work, or he would have known everything. Leia obviously didn't know much about who Obi-Wan was, but there's no excuse for Artoo not to. Maybe they just relied on the fact that he couldn't actually talk? See.. I get the feeling that GL wanted to paint this picture of a huge grand epic plan to save the galaxy, all hinging on Anakin and Padme's kids. But the evidence of that just isn't there in the OT, because it obviously hadn't been planned that way originally. For instance.. Obi-wan and Bail Organa specifically split up Luke and Leia to protect them. Were they going to be reunited to fix things? Or did they plan on just hiding forever? Also, there is no way in hell Obi-wan was unaware of who Leia was in EpIV, and he saw her reunited with Luke right before he died... yet when talking with Yoda, he's all "That boy was our last hope," and Yoda has to remind him about Leia... whom he helped rescue. WTF? The comment Leia made about her mother always made perfect sense to me, but I admit I had really had expected Padme to survive EpIII due to that line. It still works when you consider she would only remember her adopted mother anyway though. Leia was raised as though she were their own child, while Luke was just raised all along as if his parents had both died. What I found funny about that situation was that for a while I think the EU considered Owen and Beru Lars to be friends of Obi-wan that he turned Luke over to. For better or for worse, GL connected the dots to make them his actual aunt and uncle. The only thing I think actually did work out well with the whole grand scheme bit though.. Anakin was the one who brought balance to the force. He just took the longest possible route to get there. ....and after re-reading what I just wrote, I realized something. Good grief do I ever need to get a life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anime52k8 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 That scene is now officially pointless and misleading. I think that sums up the entirety of the Star Wars franchise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uxi Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I've seen the argument about Lucas not having the sister/father planned out before and I even buy most of it since it seems to fit better than Lucas having every i dotted and t crossed, which clearly wasn't so given how much remained in flux up to the pre-production of TESB. Ben is definitely being evasive when Luke asks about his father. He looks VERY uncomfortable with the subject. Maybe Lucas was originally going to have Obi-wan kill Anakin like some have said, but he is taken aback and then changes the subject to talk about Luke's piloting. There's something there. It may well be hindsight and nostalgia, but his expression when he sees Luke and then looks back at Vader before letting Vader have at him has something there, too. WRT the droids, they see them like people see cars. Some people take great affection and name/nickname their cars and know all sorts of things about them. Other people don't give a crap about them and consider them mere utilities. Would you recognize your best friend's car from 20 years ago? Maybe. More likely you would think it was one in the same paint scheme and config and if you had a really sharp memory (and cared about such things), you might perceive details to know if it definitely was or wasn't your buddies car. If you were the utilitarian and non-sentimental type, you might forget about it entirely. Later on going through pictures, you'd go "oh yeah, that's why that seemed familiar" or could remain entirely oblivious. That is entirely subjective to the individual. See.. I get the feeling that GL wanted to paint this picture of a huge grand epic plan to save the galaxy, all hinging on Anakin and Padme's kids. But the evidence of that just isn't there in the OT, because it obviously hadn't been planned that way originally. For instance.. Obi-wan and Bail Organa specifically split up Luke and Leia to protect them. Were they going to be reunited to fix things? Or did they plan on just hiding forever? were Hiding until the "time is right," no? How would they determine that? It seems Leia was told by her father to go to Obi-wan as the ultimate last resort, so with Vader on her ass she does. That set the time as right as the convergence of "fate" bringing everyone (Anakin/Vader, Luke, Leia, and Obi-wan - and the droids) together at the same time in the same place. Remember, from Obi-wan's experience "there's no such thing as luck." Presumably good and bad. Also, there is no way in hell Obi-wan was unaware of who Leia was in EpIV, and he saw her reunited with Luke right before he died... yet when talking with Yoda, he's all "That boy was our last hope," and Yoda has to remind him about Leia... whom he helped rescue. WTF? That doesn't fit as an inconsistency at least WRT the trilogy much less saga. Even if Lucas didn't have Leia planned as the sister in 1977, it's in the exact same movie she's revealed as the sister. Obi-wan is "in the moment" and not thinking long term/big picture. He's watching the half trained boy impulsively fly off into a trap. Leia doesn't even have the benefit of being half trained at that point and would be 'starting over' with Yoda nearing death's door and Obi-wan already a ghost. We still don't know if Leia would even be able to perceive Obi-wan's ghost or not. The comment Leia made about her mother always made perfect sense to me, but I admit I had really had expected Padme to survive EpIII due to that line. It still works when you consider she would only remember her adopted mother anyway though. Leia was raised as though she were their own child, while Luke was just raised all along as if his parents had both died. What I found funny about that situation was that for a while I think the EU considered Owen and Beru Lars to be friends of Obi-wan that he turned Luke over to. For better or for worse, GL connected the dots to make them his actual aunt and uncle. In the ROTJ novelization, Owen is Obi-wan's brother. The hints of the mother have Leia remembering hiding in a trunk and people yelling or something like that, hinting the twins were split up and her mother survived at least to Leia being a toddler, presumably on Alderaan. I remember some discussion at the time of ROTS wondering if perhaps Padme would survive and even be on Alderaan when the Death Star was blown up, which could have been an interesting twist but also contradicts Leia's statement about her mother. I still don't really see it as a very big nit to pick. Look at the babies eyes in ROTS. One of them has it's eyes open and is attentive and it's not Luke, who's either screaming or sleeping. ....and after re-reading what I just wrote, I realized something. Good grief do I ever need to get a life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 (edited) Robot Chicken explains everything that GL left out, end of story. I love how Vader deals with the Jar-Jar issue....at least he recognized him. Edited September 22, 2011 by peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Not worse, and I think the line got snipped from later copies of the movie, but Obi Wan says he never owned droids before, especially not new ones like these - the new ones bit was snipped from later releases of Star Wars (or I am remembering something that never happened, really hard to tell these days). I don't think that line was ever there. Especially since it doesn't make sense even if the original movie is standalone. The droids are established as old and beat-up. Heck, Luke's uncle bought them from a rolling salvage yard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynaman Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I don't think that line was ever there. Especially since it doesn't make sense even if the original movie is standalone. The droids are established as old and beat-up. Heck, Luke's uncle bought them from a rolling salvage yard. You must be right, I looked around the web and no one else ever mentions the line being changed. Could swear I remember that line though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynaman Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 It may well be hindsight and nostalgia, but his expression when he sees Luke and then looks back at Vader before letting Vader have at him has something there, too. The only thing there at the time Star Wars was being filmed was Ben thinking "I can help this boy more in Death then I can while alive - and Vader does not know it" Vader should also have been easily able to sense Luke while he was on the Death Star (heck, only a few yards away at one point, his force sense ability comes and goes it seems) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Togo Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 "My mother?" "Yeah" "Let me tell you about my mother..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uxi Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 The only thing there at the time Star Wars was being filmed was Ben thinking "I can help this boy more in Death then I can while alive - and Vader does not know it" That's one way to look at it. I just see it differently but probably can't divorce what I really know follows. Vader should also have been easily able to sense Luke while he was on the Death Star (heck, only a few yards away at one point, his force sense ability comes and goes it seems) Why? It's not Highlander. Remember, Vader is only meters away from Obi-wan, who he spent over a decade with as a student and 'brother' in arms and he only feels a strange tremor in the Force. He doesn't even know Luke at that point. Qui-gon didn't sense Anakin. He did a blood test on him and all but echoes Obi-wan's "WTF" when they get the results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynaman Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 That's one way to look at it. I just see it differently but probably can't divorce what I really know follows. It's not a case of looking at it, it's a case of George adding in the bit about Luke being Vader's son later. Why? It's not Highlander. Remember, Vader is only meters away from Obi-wan, who he spent over a decade with as a student and 'brother' in arms and he only feels a strange tremor in the Force. He doesn't even know Luke at that point. Qui-gon didn't sense Anakin. He did a blood test on him and all but echoes Obi-wan's "WTF" when they get the results. Ditto my answer above. Luke is Strong with the force, more so then Kenobi, even untrained - supposedly that is part of the reason they sent him out to the boonies to keep him from being sensed by Vader, yet when Vader is a few yards away he still doesn't sense him. Some people try to come up with Arcane reasons for that kind of thing, I call it a continuity error and leave it at that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeyondTheGrave Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 (edited) That scene is now officially pointless and misleading. I think that sums up the entirety of the Star Wars franchise. QFT Along with overrated. Edited September 23, 2011 by BeyondTheGrave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Togo Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 QFT Along with overrated. I'm not quite sure how it is overrated. The prequels are universally maligned, Jedi's gotten it's share of flack over the past 25 years, and the "expanded universe" productions are generally mediocre and not well reviewed. With the exception of a small selection of games, books, and the original Clone Wars shorts, what exactly has there been positive to say about SW in 30 years? You can't deny the original film is a classic and one of the most important films ever made, and Empire surpasses it in quality on almost every level. The rest Is a mixed bag, at best. I wouldn't call that overrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF5SS Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Hey don't you make fun of Wraith Squadron yub yub commander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeyondTheGrave Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 I'm not quite sure how it is overrated. The prequels are universally maligned, Jedi's gotten it's share of flack over the past 25 years, and the "expanded universe" productions are generally mediocre and not well reviewed. With the exception of a small selection of games, books, and the original Clone Wars shorts, what exactly has there been positive to say about SW in 30 years? You can't deny the original film is a classic and one of the most important films ever made, and Empire surpasses it in quality on almost every level. The rest Is a mixed bag, at best. I wouldn't call that overrated. Let me re-phrase.. over hyped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uxi Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 I just went through the deleted scenes on my prequel DVDs. I think I want most/all of them included in Extended Special Editions along with the scenes from the Blu-ray. I think Padme's Senate scene in AOTC as well as the family scenes in AOTC and Birth of the Rebellion scenes are absolutely necessary. The only ones I think I DON'T want are the Greedo scene or the Plot to destroy the Jedi in Ep 3 (redundant to the scene when they hear Grevious has been destroyed). I'd probably most like them to digitally substitute some other CGI Jedi for Shaak-Ti on the Invisible Hand (or in the Jedi Temple, either way) but would like both scenes to be included to show more of Anakin's descent. Going back to the Sith Eyes, I think Anakin should have them from the moment he is 'dedicated' as Darth Vader by Darth Sidious for the rest of the movie, perhaps having them fade to normal when he sees Padme land, but resuming just before he yells "Liar!" and chokes her and remaining that way through the rest of the duel and movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Focker Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Slightly Off Topic Black Star Warrior Trailer Full Movie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myk Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Forget George Lucas, the Black Star Warrior is the one who truly raped our childhood... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ae_productions Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 It's a damn shame that the extended versions of the film were NOT included in this set. I know, I know, that way they can release 10 more versions on Blu-Ray. And most fans will still buy them. But honestly, I'd rather see the deleted scenes in context edited back into the films. So, how many different versions of Star Wars will Lucas release on Blu-ray? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Regarding Luke on the Death Star. Vader "did" know Obi-Wan was there, he wanted him to disable the tractor beam, he wanted his cohorts to excape with Leia (and lead them to the rebel base), and he was right there at the right place to meet up with Obi-Wan for a showdown. What we don't know is if Vader had a DBZ power level sensor in his mask, as he obviously did "sense" a Jedi presence. Luke at the time was barely trained, and aside from a bit of blind saber training, the first time he "really" used the force was to take down the death star. At that time, Vader did sense how strong the force was with him. So it could be said unless somoene is actively trained/using the force, they don't show up on the force radar. For instance, Leia didn't register at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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