Ghost Train Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 With all due respect, I'd rather not see "Transformers 2" in the Macross universe... Lol, could you be a bit more specific? I do know people who did not like it because it stands as a radical departure from the whimsical "power of song" formula, and that's fine. But the darker, more mature Plus was a selling point for me. No ridiculous musical weapon (not in the traditional sense anyways), somewhat realistic characters with actual issues as opposed to the messianic super-aces, while maintaining a killer soundtrack. Now, if this is about my post on the transformers thread, I will admit I was drunk when I typed that , but the movie was truly bad. Despite differences in opinion, I can never see Macross Plus being at the same level as that CG Turd movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeyondTheGrave Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 With all due respect, I'd rather not see "Transformers 2" in the Macross universe... You Mean you don't want to see a Michael "EXPLOSION, have to mobilize the military every 5 sec" Bay macross themed series. It could always be a Dragon wars themed macross. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Train Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 You Mean you don't want to see a Michael "EXPLOSION, have to mobilize the military every 5 sec" Bay macross themed series. It could always be a Dragon wars themed macross. Which Macross Plus is not. There is no "AHMOGAWD GET TO TEH CHOPPA" until the last quarter . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiriyu Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 I dunno. I think I need to compile all the awesome ideas into one post. I think it goes something like this... Focus Group Guy: [after showing the fans some Macross cartoons] Okay, how many of you fans would like Macross to deal with real life problems like the ones you face every day? [the fans cheer] Focus Group Guy: And who would like to see the show do just the opposite, getting into far-out situations involving robots and magic powers? [the fans cheer again] Focus Group Guy: So, you want a realistic down-to-earth show that's completely off the wall, and swarming with magic robots? [the fans all chat at once about it being a great idea] Milhouse Van Houten: And, also, you should win things by watching. Focus Group Guy: [sighs] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taksraven Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 I think it goes something like this... Focus Group Guy: [after showing the fans some Macross cartoons] Okay, how many of you fans would like Macross to deal with real life problems like the ones you face every day? [the fans cheer] Focus Group Guy: And who would like to see the show do just the opposite, getting into far-out situations involving robots and magic powers? [the fans cheer again] Focus Group Guy: So, you want a realistic down-to-earth show that's completely off the wall, and swarming with magic robots? [the fans all chat at once about it being a great idea] Milhouse Van Houten: And, also, you should win things by watching. Focus Group Guy: [sighs] You missed the bit where the mirror sneezes. Very funny. Taksraven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zinjo Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Trans 2 is generally a rehash of 1. The characters barely grew, the robots got bigger and more ridiculous as did the situations. Bay is totally out of touch with the world outside his front door. How else could he think that the US military conducting ANY operation on Chinese soil is a reasonable or remotely realistic plot point.... We've seen the competing fighter jock story and it was great. What's left? Same story, different fighters? Far too myopic a view of the vast universe that Studio Nue created for Macross. We've identified through various media at least 12 colony worlds as of 2040 and there were more being colonized every year. Then there's the inter-world conflicts that are bound to spring up, PC legacy stories, untold stories from previous eras, etc... Let's not limit ourselves to rehashing an already great show. Let's move on. Kawamori probably won't be able to sell a non-music Macross series, but he seems to be moving away from that in the OVAs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Train Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Trans 2 is generally a rehash of 1. The characters barely grew, the robots got bigger and more ridiculous as did the situations. Bay is totally out of touch with the world outside his front door. How else could he think that the US military conducting ANY operation on Chinese soil is a reasonable or remotely realistic plot point.... We've seen the competing fighter jock story and it was great. What's left? Same story, different fighters? Far too myopic a view of the vast universe that Studio Nue created for Macross. We've identified through various media at least 12 colony worlds as of 2040 and there were more being colonized every year. Then there's the inter-world conflicts that are bound to spring up, PC legacy stories, untold stories from previous eras, etc... Let's not limit ourselves to rehashing an already great show. Let's move on. Kawamori probably won't be able to sell a non-music Macross series, but he seems to be moving away from that in the OVAs. Although I agree with you 100% on the the huge lore that has been built over the years, I feel that there is still the potential to pen a "jock story" as you so eloquently put it in a rather creative manner without it being a 100% identical rehash of Macross Plus. Will explain this later. In many ways, why I think so highly of Plus is particularly because it was Macross but with many elements turned on its head - like music not necessarily being the weapon used against the invader, but the antagonist using it against UN Spacy (if you can overlook Macross II as being the first one to do that of course ). Also, if you think about it, isn't every Macross series pretty much a rehash of the original? Now before you all start the flamethrower, I don't think that this was a bad thing. Sure, I'm generally opposed to extensive recycling of ideas, but each new series added just a bit of its own "magic" to make it worthwhile. Frontier is probably the most guilty of this, as pretty much every single character is a semi-rehashed version of an earlier character from a previous series. Frontier offered nothing new and revolutionary in its story or its characters, yet most people (myself included) still found it enjoyable because of its polish and attention to detail. So yea, I'm not for remaking Plus with different characters and different valkyries, but more for a story that deviates a bit from the traditional formula... but jock valkyrie duel would be nice of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr March Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Depends upon your definition of "rehash", which is often the victim of a notoriously redefined context each time it's mentioned. By default, any sequel is a "rehash" (to work up (old material) in a new form). This includes good sequels and even sequels better than the original. As good as sequels may be, from Macross DYRL?, to The Empire Strikes Back, to Terminator 2, to The Dark Knight, they are all derivative variations on a theme. There also comes a point in any franchise where you are watching the franchise because it's entertainment first. By far one of the biggest problems most people have stem from their inability to accept that the once mold-breaking, zeitgeist-capturing original production will never be so again (and CAN never be so again). This doesn't mean further Macross can't be good, just that it's original combination can never be new once released. I've always admired how Macross re-forms itself from the basic themes over and over. In fact, it could be argued each Macross production after SDF Macross is equal parts sequel and reboot. The commonalities and reinventions are certainly right there to be seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiriyu Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 You missed the bit where the mirror sneezes. Very funny. Taksraven I didn't want to make Ralphie cry. I think that was Kawamori behind the mirror, yeah? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taksraven Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Depends upon your definition of "rehash", which is often the victim of a notoriously redefined context each time it's mentioned. By default, any sequel is a "rehash" (to work up (old material) in a new form). This includes good sequels and even sequels better than the original. As good as sequels may be, from Macross DYRL?, to The Empire Strikes Back, to Terminator 2, to The Dark Knight, they are all derivative variations on a theme. You could argue that about most popular entertainment. I was watching Eragon on TV the other night, and I was able to guess most of the major plot points and developments just by putting the film together from bits of Star Wars and Lord of the Rings. There also comes a point in any franchise where you are watching the franchise because it's entertainment first. By far one of the biggest problems most people have stem from their inability to accept that the once mold-breaking, zeitgeist-capturing original production will never be so again (and CAN never be so again). This doesn't mean further Macross can't be good, just that it's original combination can never be new once released. You are right. Macross Frontier was not really groundbreaking but it did manage to turn a few conventions on their head, which is always a good thing. I've always admired how Macross re-forms itself from the basic themes over and over. In fact, it could be argued each Macross production after SDF Macross is equal parts sequel and reboot. The commonalities and reinventions are certainly right there to be seen. To me, Macross Frontier was good, and it was meant to be fun. It was a nice contrast after Macross Zero which was also good, but very dark. And I think that Frontier climaxed well in the last episode, throwing in as many old references as they could and creating what seemed to me to almost be a party atmosphere. Which was fair as the whole thing was meant to be a celebration of Macross. Taksraven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.D. Ivanov Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 I'm one for the western idea. And besides, Millard Johnson said something about "colony disputes" when describing Project Super Nova. I wanna see one of those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anime52k8 Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 You could argue that about most popular entertainment. I was watching Eragon on TV the other night, and I was able to guess most of the major plot points and developments just by putting the film together from bits of Star Wars and Lord of the Rings. Star Wars one of the most generic fantasy stories ever told. Lucas took every fantasy cliche and trope and threw them together under a sci-fi deco. If you had read ANY fantasy stories before watching star wars for the first time, you could see everything in it coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Effect Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 I'd love to see a significant look at the rebuilding of Earth and the integration of the Zents. I know the final episodes of SDF Macross covered this to a degree but that was very limited. There is a nice bit of time they can cover from when the cloning of humans and the sending of the fleets out started up till the the events of Macross Frontier or beyond. Did any remnants of the Anti-UN try to make a come back, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funkenstein Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Id imagine a Macross movie would be something similar to Battlestar Galactica, with more fighters and same amount of drama. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Next Macross series? OVA: Macross VFX the Animation Movie:Macross Frontier, Do You Remember Kabuki Series: Macross 50 (with new VF-50 and Macross 50 and a 50 year old idol singer......yuck) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFTF1 Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 I think no new Macross series for ten years would be good. The stuff that is available now is very very high quality. I would be more fearful that they ruin the quality of the series by trying to come up with something new so fast than that there would be no "new" Macross for ten more years. Maybe an OVA could come somewhere in there. But certainly no completely new characters or mecha for a while. UNLESS of course they want to do "Macross: The Basara chronicles - A Singing Tribute to Galactic Whales part 1 of a 12 part, 48 hour documentary with special apperances by Spinal Tap, and surviving cast members of the Brady Bunch" - and it would have to have that title. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arrow Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Even a macross with no sweeping epic story would be good. Something along the lines of mac + and zero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDClip Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Not sure if i agree with 'darker and gritty' in Macross. Why does everything have to be gritty and depressing nowadays? Anyway, i'd like to see some of these in Macross: Maybe a female pilot main character Some big insight into protoculture What the hell happened to Sara Nome And finally, can we get a love triangle that actually has a resolution at the end of the series? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 I've got a GREAT idea...how about a Macross series with no variable fighters (or action) whatsoever...just music and a love triangle. And kids. Lot of cute li'l kids. It could be like The Goonies, but in space! What could be more Macross-y than that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueMax Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Well, Macross without VFs and action? Hm... forget it, just gimme more Full Metal Panic :Fumoffu instead in this case. That one was pure classic japanese comedy with little/ no action. Macross without VFs/ action is like ordering fish and chips without the fish! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Robot Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 I got started on Macross with Plus and don't mind the idea of some shorter and more personal stories like it, but only if there's another TV series in the works within a couple years after. If I'm going to have to wait another five years before and after the next Macross series I still want something bigger and meatier. Even Frontier was a few episodes shorter than it should have been, I think, and despite having some comic relief and fanservice I got as much seriousness and mecha action as I really could have expected from it, and a whole lot more sense of setting and scope than something like Plus could really deliver. It got grim enough at points that being much more so would be less Macross and more BSG with Valkyries...not to say that BSG with Valkyries would be all bad, but still. Frontier wasn't perfect(story pacing issues come to mind), but it hit enough range of what I want as a Macross fan that I can't really say a mood I want that would be far from it. On the other hand, if it's too much like Frontier it could get the series stuck in a rut too. I'll just have to hope Kawamori comes up with something good. As for what RDClip said, it would be nice to see a human female fighter pilot the next time around. Even if she's not the main character, a woman getting in a fighter cockpit without it being explained by her Zentradi heritage seems rarer than a VF-11 squadron coming home intact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vifam7 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 (edited) Next Macross series? OVA: Macross VFX the Animation Movie:Macross Frontier, Do You Remember Kabuki Series: Macross 50 (with new VF-50 and Macross 50 and a 50 year old idol singer......yuck) Um.... they already did the 50 year old idol singer! Guess who this is! Edited August 31, 2009 by Vifam7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDClip Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Um.... they already did the 50 year old idol singer! Guess who this is! You DARE question the MILFness of Millia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Mancini Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Not sure if i agree with 'darker and gritty' in Macross. Why does everything have to be gritty and depressing nowadays? Anyway, i'd like to see some of these in Macross: Maybe a female pilot main character Some big insight into protoculture What the hell happened to Sara Nome And finally, can we get a love triangle that actually has a resolution at the end of the series? A gritty series doesn't necessarily have to be "depressing". The reason why so many fans are asking for this is because as fans of the original SDFM in the 80s, we're all grown up now in the year 2009. We're in our 30s now and a lot of us aren't entertained/stimulated by naive sexual innocence jokes, panty-chasing, bubblegum popstars, and kawaii Zentradi pilots. Also, a big reason a lot of us were attracted to Macross in the first place was because the mature undertones appealed to us even as youngsters....mature undertones that we weren't getting from shows like Transformers or GI Joe. It's only natural that this fan base that originally sought out Macross in the first place for it's maturity, want to see that same maturity pushed further to match our own evolving maturity/sophistication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDClip Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 A gritty series doesn't necessarily have to be "depressing". The reason why so many fans are asking for this is because as fans of the original SDFM in the 80s, we're all grown up now in the year 2009. We're in our 30s now and a lot of us aren't entertained/stimulated by naive sexual innocence jokes, panty-chasing, bubblegum popstars, and kawaii Zentradi pilots. Also, a big reason a lot of us were attracted to Macross in the first place was because the mature undertones appealed to us even as youngsters....mature undertones that we weren't getting from shows like Transformers or GI Joe. It's only natural that this fan base that originally sought out Macross in the first place for it's maturity, want to see that same maturity pushed further to match our own evolving maturity/sophistication. I can understand that. However, we aren't the demographic that they are trying to sell Macross to. Its directed at teenaged Japanese boys. So fanservice, loli characters and pop music have to be a given. (I figured that out when i found that i related to very few anime characters since i'm not a teenager anymore) I'm just saying it isnt realistic to expect Macross to turn into Ergo Proxy or GitS because Macross has always been in the realm of colorful events and characters, not realism and grittiness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 I can understand that. However, we aren't the demographic that they are trying to sell Macross to. Its directed at teenaged Japanese boys. So fanservice, loli characters and pop music have to be a given. (I figured that out when i found that i related to very few anime characters since i'm not a teenager anymore) I have to admit I don't really "get" this line of thinking...I'm not a teenager anymore, either, and haven't been for some time, but since I used to be one, I find I can still usually relate to teenage characters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamweaver13 Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 I have to admit I don't really "get" this line of thinking...I'm not a teenager anymore, either, and haven't been for some time, but since I used to be one, I find I can still usually relate to teenage characters. Yeah, i agree completely! i'm certainly not a teen anymore, but i used to be one, so I find that i can still be turned on by young teenaged characters and.... wait... um... that's wasn't really what you were saying, was it? ahem. never mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Robot Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 I have to admit I don't really "get" this line of thinking...I'm not a teenager anymore, either, and haven't been for some time, but since I used to be one, I find I can still usually relate to teenage characters. I agree as well. I'm not a teenager any more and I definitely have different tastes than when I was, but I still don't need a series to be about all gritty grown-ups doing gritty-grown up things all the time to get into it. In the case of Macross Frontier, it was in part because they weren't just high school kids, but people mostly living as young adults with careers and facing life and death issues. I can also see a series with one episode of silly high school antics without categorizing the whole series as nothing more. I mean, what otherwise, call SDFM "that trippy show with the magic bicycle?" Macross isn't a franchise about war stories so much as it is about people in a war story, suffering at times but pulling through and finding something past the fighting. That means grim times, that means light moments, and that means lots of space between. And before you ask, that means there will be singing. None of these are incompatible with a story adults can enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Mancini Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 (edited) I can understand that. However, we aren't the demographic that they are trying to sell Macross to. I'm not so sure about that. We are the prime demographic for Yamato, after all. Even if we're not, maybe we should be. Battlestar Galactica grew up. Metal Gear grew up. Why can't Macross? Besides, it already has been gritty. Plus and Zero were fairly gritty...were they on the absolute fringe of the "Macross gritty meter"?...as in - you can't possibly make anything grittier and still call it Macross? I think they can, and I think it would be great, and I don't think the "Teenage boys" demographic would be lost either. This is 2009...our teenage boy counterparts are playing Grand Theft Auto at the same age that we used to play Megaman. I'm sure lots of people scoffed at the idea of permanently killing of Roy as an important part of Hikaru's character arc so that he could slowly grow into that leadership role. They probably said, "It's a kid's show...why are you trying to do something sophistocated? Fans like Roy. Killing him would be stupid." But those very elements were what attracted us to the series in the first place and made us still respect/appreciate it 25 years later. One final point on this... Macross 7 was a bold departure towards the opposite end of the spectrum, so why can't a series that explores the far end of the gritty/mature side of the spectrum be successful? Edited September 1, 2009 by Vic Mancini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Train Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 I had this terrifying thought. Given that historically speaking Macross Launch Day has already passed and that Kawamori is a 10th degree master of Troll-Fu, don't be surprised if the whole Macross genre starts to get retconned soon . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerocombatpilot Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 I know it's only a wish, but I would like to see Macross the First animated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 I know it's only a wish, but I would like to see Macross the First animated. You mean Macross:Reimagined series? The main plot will be Zentraedi invading Earth so they can start making babies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anime52k8 Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 The main plot will be Zentraedi invading Earth so they can start making babies that's what they should make next, a macross porno OVA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugimon Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 that's what they should make next, a macross porno OVA. What do you mean "next"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macrossnake Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 What do you mean "next"? lol Yes. As a fan, I can't believe that I haven't bought/watched this yet! http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/images/...779&sr=8-19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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