Macross Frontier Episode 17 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[dreamweaver13]

Finally got to watch the subs!

By now, most of you have already pointed these out, but nevertheless:

1. my, my, Ranka sure does have a naughty mind. haha.

2. I'd shout BOMBA!, but about ten thousand of you have already done it! haha! It was great to hear these oldies again. and no mere car radio cameo this time.

3. Already pointed out, but it is still foreboding. Ai-kun tearing of alto's paper plane. But only after the plane attacked him, mind you.

4. In Ranka's apartment, when Alto was giving that speech about competition ("we or they will survive"), there was a clear shot of a poster of Sheryl Nome. Awww. can't ranka get popular without stepping on Sheryl's fame (as it looks like from the preview).

5. LOVE that punishment scene, with Cathy acting the "oni". also LOVE the face of Klan klan when Michael was pushing her down to hide. "watashi wa..."

6. Luca's walking the path to the dark side!

7. Ok final confirmation that Grace and the male agent are one and the same.

8. and let's get to the key moment of the episode for us Macross fans... haha, what a gag that bastard kawamori pulled on us. But rather than focus on the food and other circumstances that kept Ozma alive (man, it's a COMPLEX science, i tell you), it was amusing how the differenct characters spoke and reacted in the hospital. and they seem to represent everyone that has anything to do with Macross.

Michael said "wouldn't it be emotional if he died?". hehe. that's Shoji Kawamori right there, talking to "new" macross fans.

Ozma said "i told you i wouldn't die" while looking at the 4th wall. That's SK again, talking to us "old" macross fans. that's him saying PSYCH!

Cathy/Ranka saying "baka" and ranka exclaiming that she was so worried: that's basically all of us, who were pretty SURE ozma was gonna die, and were already tearing up when we saw the technician looking at Ozma's cockpit.

Alto giving a smiling "hmp" as if he's saying, "damn, he got me this time". yeah, that us again, after realizing that the joke's on us!

And finally Kanalia and Luca with their blank faces are the "new" macross fans who haven't seen SDFM. "ok, so he didn't die. what's the big fuzz all about?"

Edited August 3, 2008 by dreamweaver13

[NoNameSt11]

i don't know whats worse, the sheer arrogance of who ever at gg Fansubs made the "sex with ranka" comment or the fact that they can't even manage to get the subtitles to stop overlapping.

Or you can stop using a fail media player.

[Sulendil Ang]

8. and let's get to the key moment of the episode for us Macross fans... haha, what a gag that bastard kawamori pulled on us. But rather than focus on the food and other circumstances that kept Ozma alive (man, it's a COMPLEX science, i tell you), it was amusing how the differenct characters spoke and reacted in the hospital. and they seem to represent everyone that has anything to do with Macross.

Michael said "wouldn't it be emotional if he died?". hehe. that's Shoji Kawamori right there, talking to "new" macross fans.

Ozma said "i told you i wouldn't die" while looking at the 4th wall. That's SK again, talking to us "old" macross fans. that's him saying PSYCH!

Cathy/Ranka saying "baka" and ranka exclaiming that she was so worried: that's basically all of us, who were pretty SURE ozma was gonna die, and were already tearing up when we saw the technician looking at Ozma's cockpit.

Alto giving a smiling "hmp" as if he's saying, "damn, he got me this time". yeah, that us again, after realizing that the joke's on us!

And finally Kanalia and Luca with their blank faces are the "new" macross fans who haven't seen SDFM. "ok, so he didn't die. what's the big fuzz all about?"

Nice interpretation of that scene! Kudos for dreamweaver13 for making it looked 100x more awesome than I thought.

[azrael]

I don't think it's so much that people are dismissing Fire Bomber as nothing more than an old and forgotten band, but more like that they're simply... old. We have to consider that by the time of macross F, Fire Bomber is already around 19 years old. That's an eternity in music years. Granted, they're already legend status, but they still haven't been active in the music biz for a long time (i presume, unless Basara and Mylene came back for a reunion thing).Compare it to our timeline, where Britney Spears (sheryl) and Myley Cyrus (Ranka) rules the airwaves, once upon a time, Bon Jovi (Fire Bomber) was king. Look further, and you still have the Beatles or Elvis (Minmei). Old-school, but definitely legends in their own right. but you can't blame someone for saying "Yech, Bon Jovi? isn't that a bit too old?" (like a bridge bunny told Bobby).

It's generational, in other words. Ozma and Bobby probably part of that generation that grew up listening to Fire Bomber. It's like that 1 person who listens to '60s, '70s, or '80s music. It's what people listen to. Kids these days think it's old, but you know, people still listen to it because that's the music people grew up listening to or grew to like. People still listen to old-school stuff from Bon Jovi, The Beatles, etc. because that's what they like. Because that music makes sense to them. And there's nothing wrong with that.

[mode=olde foggy]Kids these days. They don't know what music is.[/mode]

[magnuskn]

If you have some particular criticism of our work on Frontier, I honestly hope you'll state it. Considering that Chihiro/Kei is a rough speedsub translated from Chinese subs, I would find it a bit boggling if you actually prefer them for, say, translation quality or editing.

While I prefer your fansubs over all other groups, I am a bit flabbergasted with the line from Michael at 03:41 "On top of that, you completely spewed what I taught you about bringing a woman in..."

Um, "spewed"? Was that to be "screwed up", or what exactly?

I was deciding between "enka" and "folk oldie" for this line. I went with "folk oldie" because it comes close to being a cultural analog of enka, and as far as I could tell, the reason Alto said "enka" was that Ozma's heroic lines were in that vein (proclaiming that he wouldn't be a man if he couldn't protect his women), and that would also be something you'd expect in a folk oldie (possibly). You think I should've said "folk western" or "country", or just gone with enka?

Wikipedia says about Enka that it refers to folk music and to speeches set to music which were sung and spread by political activists during the Meiji period (1868–1912) and the Taisho period (1912–1926) as a means to avoid crackdowns by the government on speeches of political dissent. I am guessing Alto may even be referring to that second possibility, because otherwise it would make him incredibly bad at recognizing music styles. Well, and because it was a passionate speech by Ozma to the tune of Fire Bomber music.

Keep on the good work, I´m always happy when your releases come out. Can´t wait on Code Geass this week.

Oh, and not to forget:

BOMBAAA!!!

Edited August 3, 2008 by magnuskn

[Chief Guld Goa Bowman]

Are the subs out yet?

[Sulendil Ang]

Are the subs out yet?

Yup. gg subs has been up for days.

[sketchley]

Wikipedia says about Enka that it refers to folk music and to speeches set to music which were sung and spread by political activists during the Meiji period (1868–1912) and the Taisho period (1912–1926) as a means to avoid crackdowns by the government on speeches of political dissent. I am guessing Alto may even be referring to that second possibility, because otherwise it would make him incredibly bad at recognizing music styles. Well, and because it was a passionate speech by Ozma to the tune of Fire Bomber music.

Woah. I doubt it's the second (I'd go so far and say that it's overanalyzing.)* Aruto was making a joke, pure and simple.

... just like I was, pages ago when I mentioned Jero. Hip hop enka singer, anyone?

Also, Enka isn't what I'd describe as folk music (or at least by my image of it.) If anything, I'd consider it analogious to Big Band music, or stuff akin to Frank Sinatra (in terms of what the music is like, it's popularity (past and present), how it manifests itself in culture (on TV, etc.) and the type of people who listen to it.)

*2nd by your word order, 1st by the Wikipedia article's ordering.

[Morpheus]

Alto Saotome, pilot wannabe Kabuki player which loves Enka........and folding paper planes.

[magnuskn]

Woah. I doubt it's the second (I'd go so far and say that it's overanalyzing.)* Aruto was making a joke, pure and simple.

*2nd by your word order, 1st by the Wikipedia article's ordering.

Dude, I just wondered what the hell Enka is from before the subs came out and used Wikipedia. Then I copy and pasted what they wrote about that first style of Enka in my post.

Every moron can do that, no deep analysis involved.

And what is that "Aruto" thing that sometimes crops up? It´s "Alto", no sub uses "Aruto".

Edited August 3, 2008 by magnuskn

[sketchley]

Oops. Forgot to modify that line after checking the article.

Basically, I read your post as Aruto's comment = political messaging, then reread your post and the article and changed that to Aruto's comment = joke.

Apologies, and I'm off to get more coffee. Apparently I don't have enough in my system just yet.

[Gubaba]

I was deciding between "enka" and "folk oldie" for this line. I went with "folk oldie" because it comes close to being a cultural analog of enka, and as far as I could tell, the reason Alto said "enka" was that Ozma's heroic lines were in that vein (proclaiming that he wouldn't be a man if he couldn't protect his women), and that would also be something you'd expect in a folk oldie (possibly). You think I should've said "folk western" or "country", or just gone with enka?

Considering that Alto is Japanese, and that there was an enka singer earlier in the series, I probably would've just gone with "enka." Given the context, "oldie" probably would've been fine, too.

Usually, I think of enka as being analogous to country, but there really aren't any "It's hard to be a man" songs that are popular in Western culture in ANY genre.

And, on reflection, I think it's just a personal bias on my part...I like a lot of folk music (Dylan, Baez, Ochs...all the usual suspects) and I think of it as more politcally charged than Ozma's comment. But that's probably just me.

[RedWolf]

In light of what Luca said about the origins of SMS being a transport sevice, the episode "Fastest Delivery" and the SMS theme.

SMS Song

Does anybody else think that SMS originally stood for Speed Miracle Spacy then Richard Bilrer changed it to Strategic Military Services for it formally becoming a PMC.

As I said before based on the theme SMS was originally a Zentran or all male outfit.

I guess equal opportunity laws forced them to accept women in their ranks. Womens groups and Meltrans filed protests of sexism.:heh:

[tankf77]

Are the subs out yet?

The latest from shinsen is out!

[broody]

anybody got any subtitle (.ass) files?

[nome]

there really aren't any "It's hard to be a man" songs that are popular in Western culture in ANY genre.

Not to contradict you or be rude, but there IS a nice song by Kate Bush called "This Woman's Work", where she says: "It's hard on a man, now his part is over, now starts the craft of the father..." and the song is/was quite popular for some time. It's been covered by a few artists that I know of, including Maxwell and the experimental Japanese artist Aco.

Also, "Everybody Hurts" by R.E.M. is a song about human pain being sung by a man. "Hurt" by Nine Inch Nails is a man going on about personal pain. Not the pain of being a man, per se, but still a man struggling with his own problems. So many of Nirvana's songs as well talk about things men go through. Especially "All Apologies"... even the first two lines indicate that: "What else should I be? All apologies."

This has absolutely nothing to do with anything Macross related I guess. I had to do it though. Forgive me.

Mods can delete this if it's an unnecessary post.

[Sulendil Ang]

The latest from shinsen is out!

Nay, that one is a RAW, not a sub. In fact their main site mentions nothing about Macross F.

[Gubaba]

Not to contradict you or be rude, but there IS a nice song by Kate Bush called "This Woman's Work", where she says: "It's hard on a man, now his part is over, now starts the craft of the father..." and the song is/was quite popular for some time. It's been covered by a few artists that I know of, including Maxwell and the experimental Japanese artist Aco.

Also, "Everybody Hurts" by R.E.M. is a song about human pain being sung by a man. "Hurt" by Nine Inch Nails is a man going on about personal pain. Not the pain of being a man, per se, but still a man struggling with his own problems. So many of Nirvana's songs as well talk about things men go through. Especially "All Apologies"... even the first two lines indicate that: "What else should I be? All apologies."

This has absolutely nothing to do with anything Macross related I guess. I had to do it though. Forgive me.

Mods can delete this if it's an unnecessary post.

Good songs all, but nothing like enka. As far as I can tell, all enka songs sung by men are about how difficult it is to be a real man, and all the ones sung by women are about how their lover has left and all they feel is burning...

[Final Vegeta]

when ranka and alto are in her room, Ranka mentions that there is no one around, she than backtracks because what she said may have sounded wrong

the subtitles come out like this"I trust you Alto(who would **** this alien abortion green haired ugly peice of **** anyway)(twi: this must be a suzu comment ;3 )"

There must be a sherylfag on the team Even in Wikipedia somebody alters summaries of next episodes to include Ranka's death Young kids, these days...

FV

[creamyhorror]

While I prefer your fansubs over all other groups, I am a bit flabbergasted with the line from Michael at 03:41 "On top of that, you completely spewed what I taught you about bringing a woman in..."

Um, "spewed"? Was that to be "screwed up", or what exactly?

I checked with Suzuran, and it apparently literally means "spewed [out]", as in said out loud. Deserving of a rephrase, I do agree (and I'm not quite sure why Alto would spill it all out anyway, though I might've missed something).

Wikipedia says about Enka that it refers to folk music and to speeches set to music which were sung and spread by political activists during the Meiji period (1868–1912) and the Taisho period (1912–1926) as a means to avoid crackdowns by the government on speeches of political dissent. I am guessing Alto may even be referring to that second possibility, because otherwise it would make him incredibly bad at recognizing music styles. Well, and because it was a passionate speech by Ozma to the tune of Fire Bomber music.

I don't think the political speeches meaning of enka is much used outside of academic contexts; people seem to use it to refer only to the folksy oldies of decades ago.

Keep on the good work, I´m always happy when your releases come out. Can´t wait on Code Geass this week.

Thanks, we appreciate knowing this.

Considering that Alto is Japanese, and that there was an enka singer earlier in the series, I probably would've just gone with "enka." Given the context, "oldie" probably would've been fine, too.

Usually, I think of enka as being analogous to country, but there really aren't any "It's hard to be a man" songs that are popular in Western culture in ANY genre.

Mm, true enough. "Oldie" would've been more correct, I guess, but it's still a little vague since it could refer to a few different genres. I guess "enka" with a translator's note would have been the best option.

Just curious, I was wondering if this is the reason the .ass file hasn't been uploaded yet? I like your translations and they're usually uploaded by now so I figured I'd ask.

It's not the reason, but I'll try to get a slightly corrected script up in a few hours' time. Thanks for asking.

Edited August 3, 2008 by creamyhorror

[aerocombatpilot]

Somebody explain something to me, please. If the VF-25's have barriers that can shield them, then why doesn't the Macross Quarter and other ships in the fleet have them?

[Final Vegeta]

Somebody explain something to me, please. If the VF-25's have barriers that can shield them, then why doesn't the Macross Quarter and other ships in the fleet have them?

The Macross Quarter seems to have it. Check ep. 07 after the Vajra battleship destroyed the asteroid, the Macross Quarter glowed.

FV

[vanpang]

Somebody explain something to me, please. If the VF-25's have barriers that can shield them, then why doesn't the Macross Quarter and other ships in the fleet have them?

All fleet ships of Macross Frontier have it, it is called "repulsive field". It is shown in ep. 14 at 14.21 minutes into the episode.

[sdf2501]

Somebody explain something to me, please. If the VF-25's have barriers that can shield them, then why doesn't the Macross Quarter and other ships in the fleet have them?

This is probably why Captain Wilder wasn't that concerned (unless, of course, the Bridge Bunnies weren't keeping their eyes on their monitors and therefore, wouldn't have thought of turning on the barrier).

Ozma just wanted to be GAR in front of his girlfriend and boyfriend.

[s-girl]

Ahhh. Aside from the Macross references, there's a funny reference to Gundam SEED season 1. When Ozma intercepts the attack on the Quarter by placing himself in between...

I was pretty sure that they were referencing the part where Mwu protects the ship Capt. Murrue was commanding and then bites it. At least until... he comes back in season 2 on "the other side" as someone else with a bad case of amnesia.

Needless to say, i was amused. It was a clever poke at Gundam SEED and their inability to keep characters dead.

[creamyhorror]

It's not the reason, but I'll try to get a slightly corrected script up in a few hours' time. Thanks for asking.

Well, turns out I don't have the time after all. Maybe in a few days' time, sorry folks.

[travis2008]

fire bomber rox!!!!

hope they can put few more of their songs.. BOMBAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!

[MisaForever]

Is it time to start a thread just for Fire Bomber? Ok guys, seriously, enough with the Bomber stuff.

[Gubaba]

Ok guys, seriously, enough with the Bomber stuff.

BOMBAA!!

[Gubaba]

Ahhh. Aside from the Macross references, there's a funny reference to Gundam SEED season 1. When Ozma intercepts the attack on the Quarter by placing himself in between...

I was pretty sure that they were referencing the part where Mwu protects the ship Capt. Murrue was commanding and then bites it. At least until... he comes back in season 2 on "the other side" as someone else with a bad case of amnesia.

Needless to say, i was amused. It was a clever poke at Gundam SEED and their inability to keep characters dead.

Actually...I think it was a DYRL reference...

[Sumdumgai]

Actually...I think it was a DYRL reference...

As in Hikaru taking out a zentraedi that was heading towards the bridge of the Macross, and comes out of the explosion in battroid mode, facing the bridge.

[Final Vegeta]

Actually...I think it was a DYRL reference...

Ozma was doing things that usually get you killed in anime. In this sense there was probably also a reference to SEED.

FV

[Tom and Jerry]

I checked with Suzuran, and it apparently literally means "spewed [out]", as in said out loud. Deserving of a rephrase, I do agree (and I'm not quite sure why Alto would spill it all out anyway, though I might've missed something).

I believe that this is the line you were talking about.

「お前がシェリルを連れ込んだりするからだろうが！おまけに俺が教えた女連れ込む裏ワザまで披露しやがって！！」

Omae ga Sheriru wo tsurekondari suru kara darouga! omake ni ore ga oshieta onna tsurekomu urawaza made hirou shiyagatte!

It's all because of you bringing Sheryl onboard! To crown it all, you have even exposed our secret trick I taught you how to bring a woman onbraod!

The word is hirou 披露, meaning to annouce, to announce to the public, the world, to declare, to present.

Edited August 3, 2008 by Tom and Jerry

[Master Dex]

Is it time to start a thread just for Fire Bomber? Ok guys, seriously, enough with the Bomber stuff.

BOMBAA!!

You know, I saw that coming a mile away.

Oh and yeah, BOMBAA!!

[Gubaba]

As in Hikaru taking out a zentraedi that was heading towards the bridge of the Macross, and comes out of the explosion in battroid mode, facing the bridge.

Exactly.