Macross Frontier Episode 17 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[sucker4meltrans]

I like Fire Bomber music its just Basara and Mylene when they aren't performing that bugs me.

[grss1982]

- they should make longer swords for vf-25 instead of just the daggers

Uhmmm, why not use BEAM SABERS?

**** Runs Away from the Angry MW Mob ****

[Gubaba]

I don't really care for Basara's music...

BOMBAA!

[BlueMax]

one question, what did Alto and (of all other ppl in SMS) Micheal did to piss off Cathy so bad that she got them to go around the hanger in unpowered X-Gears?

I'm sure you remember Sheryl making her way to the bridge.....

[DeeBot]

Watching the gg sub, noticed another SDF:M homage that slipped past me the first time... when Ranka goes off to get Alto his drink, Alto starts poking around her stuff (her photographs in particular), just like Hikaru did to Misa way back when.

Watching the scene with Leon and Grace again, I'm almost sure she's using and modifying the same body, not switching between two separate bodies (although that was also a pretty good idea!). Her voice changes in mid-scene, she puts on a pair of glasses, and her clothes are still MiB-style. Leon doesn't seem too startled, though, just impressed; he seems to understand pretty well what Grace is.

Wonder if she can grow her hair on demand, if it's holographics, or if she just puts on a wig. Considering her whole body is artificial, I suppose any of these could be true...

(Sidenote: I've been re-watching some of the earlier episodes... in episode 2, Grace asks Cathy if she can hook into the Frontier computers to track down Sheryl. Wonder if this is when she first got access to start hacking their systems.)

This episode was even better on a second viewing, with the subs. The light fourth wall breaking at the end, in particular.

What's Luca up to: Single-framing this, I'm pretty sure nobody is in the back seat of the limo with him. However, the fact that he's bringing fold quartz to Leon... also, Bilra doesn't seem to be the altruistic figure we'd speculated after the last episode after all (though with the caveat that we're getting the explanation from not the most trustworthy sources). I'm particularly interested in how Grace's plan (or at least, what Leon thinks is Grace's plan) would take place after the establishment of a galactic transportation network.

Still wondering what Luca gets out of all this, but he seems to believe whatever line Leon and Grace are feeding him. As does Nanase... perhaps those two are made for each other after all. *ducks* Anyway, I'm speculating Luca's shady dealings are making himself feel important, so it's probably a self-esteem thing, or maybe an appeal to his patriotism or whatever.

Ai-kun: I wonder if it's significant that Ai-kun doesn't attack the paper airplane until after Alto knocks him/her off Ranka's head with it. Shame on you, Alto. You're going to get all the Vajra madder at us. I don't think he/she grew more new legs, though, think those were there all along, just didn't need to extend all of them all the time.

Reflecting on all the recent discussions about Ranka's apparent age, I think part of the problem is that she just dresses in a very juvenile fashion. When she's up jumping on her bed, her clothes look much too small for her. I wonder if people's opinions on her age will change once she gets some new outfits; judging from her concert attire, though, not sure if it makes such a difference after all.

Ranka apparently learned how to cook from Ozma, if her cookies are anything to judge by.

Preview speculation: Grace whispers something into Sheryl's ear, which I expect to be something like she's a total washout, and should go crawl into a corner and put herself out of everyone's misery. Whatever happens between those two, I suspect Grace gets the initial upper hand.

The next episode also seems to be about a large-scale test of the fold crystals, to try and make an extreme jump of the entire colony fleet. That sounds like a rather spectacular undertaking, hope it lives up to the advanced billing. (Of course, it'll probably end up being something completely different, right? )

Also...

BOMBAA!

(Seriously, if you try to judge M7 by the first few episodes, heck almost the first half of the series, you'll definitely get the wrong impression. While I don't think M7 is the greatest show ever made, its detractors definitely overstate their case.)

Edited August 2, 2008 by DeeBot

[Gubaba]

Preview speculation: Grace whispers something into Sheryl's ear, which I expect to be something like she's a total washout, and should go crawl into a corner and put herself out of everyone's misery. Whatever happens between those two, I suspect Grace gets the initial upper hand.

You're probably right, but I think it would be more Grace-like to be whispering the secret password that would initiate Sheryl's self-destruct, and make her intestines turn into runny orange mush.

[ComicKaze]

for all of those people that like to nitpick Macross Frontier's animation quality go watch an orginal episode of Transformers.

[Suzuran]

because in macross the dialog and story is much more intricate and needs time to translate correctly.

be a little more patient and imagine how long fansubs took back in the day.

We (gg) wait for the show to air on TBS for closed captions to ensure that the translation is accurate (which is especially important for a show like Macross which has a lot of technobabble and weird terms), which is on Fridays. We have the raw at around 20:15 (GMT+1) and released it at 01:21. I think taking 6-8 hours isn't really slow.

[Gubaba]

We (gg) wait for the show to air on TBS for closed captions to ensure that the translation is accurate (which is especially important for a show like Macross which has a lot of technobabble and weird terms), which is on Fridays. We have the raw at around 20:15 (GMT+1) and released it at 01:21. I think taking 6-8 hours isn't really slow.

Haven't you heard? Instant gratification isn't fast enough!

[sushisystems]

Still wondering what Luca gets out of all this, but he seems to believe whatever line Leon and Grace are feeding him. As does Nanase... perhaps those two are made for each other after all. *ducks* Anyway, I'm speculating Luca's shady dealings are making himself feel important, so it's probably a self-esteem thing, or maybe an appeal to his patriotism or whatever.

I think Luca's goal is to keep the balance of power so that Bilra doesn't end up with a fold quartz monopoly... probably bad for LAI business

Ai-kun: I wonder if it's significant that Ai-kun doesn't attack the paper airplane until after Alto knocks him/her off Ranka's head with it. Shame on you, Alto. You're going to get all the Vajra madder at us. I don't think he/she grew more new legs, though, think those were there all along, just didn't need to extend all of them all the time.

IIRC didn't Brera mention something about Vajra learning from other Vajras' experiences and evolving? Maybe Ai-kun finally noticed the paper airplane / VF resemblance

[sucker4meltrans]

where can i go to watch an english sub? nothing on veoh yet.

[Sulendil Ang]

where can i go to watch an english sub? nothing on veoh yet.

gg sub has been out. Check the first post for more details.

[Suzuran]

I think Luca is just happy that he can play on some new technology and doesn't really care how or for which purpose it's created. Your usual (mad) scientist, indeed.

[tankf77]

one question, what did Alto and (of all other ppl in SMS) Micheal did to piss off Cathy so bad that she got them to go around the hanger in unpowered X-Gears?

During Michael's conversation with Alto, it was related to Sheryl.

[sketchley]

Guys!!! Will u cut the "bomba" thing short?

I'm starting to feel compelled to watch M7, but my guts tell me not to.

Cool.

BUT, if you do, watch only ONE (1) episode per day. Any more than that, and you have a chance of developing sick-of-too-much-Planet-Dance-itis, and join the group of Macross fans who overloaded themselves in the first few episodes, never finished watching the series, and state strange things, like "dislike a Macross show"!

Moderation.

Also, it may be best to approach the series as a drama with VFs, rather than a VF mecha show with drama.

[dreamweaver13]

You're probably right, but I think it would be more Grace-like to be whispering the secret password that would initiate Sheryl's self-destruct, and make her intestines turn into runny orange mush.

NNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

On another matter, Leon finds a dual-sex cyborg cute. hehe. well, he has his tastes. Cathy, stay away.

[sketchley]

also, Bilra doesn't seem to be the altruistic figure we'd speculated

What? There are people who think that he got into the business of selling a private army for profit to be altruistic?

If anything, it says reams about him. (Selling a service that results in death and destruction means something's messed up in the morals department. Even just the businessman angle tells us that he's more or less into it only for the money.)

[sketchley]

We (gg) wait for the show to air on TBS for closed captions to ensure that the translation is accurate (which is especially important for a show like Macross which has a lot of technobabble and weird terms), which is on Fridays. We have the raw at around 20:15 (GMT+1) and released it at 01:21. I think taking 6-8 hours isn't really slow.

6-8 hours is damn fast for a half hour (minus CMs) anime.

Though, why wait for TBS? The MBS broadcast also has the option for subtitles/closed captions.

[RedWolf]

It is interesting that Bilrer created SMS as a escort force for interstellar travel and transportation.

Kinda like Angel Links without the "doing it for free" thing.

Given in the Macross universe there are pirates and black market smugglers it is logical that UN Spacy can't cover everybody. Particularly with the priority with rogue Zentradi groups and modern incarnations of the Anti-UN.

I'm beginning to see how Galaxy and SMS got involved in the 117th fleet.

Galaxy are the corporations that sponsored the 117th fleet while SMS was it's hired escort.

It is understandable that Luca who has a corporation of his own does not want a monopoly in fold transportation.

Grace and Galaxy-Anonymous are apparently seeking something more grander ambition than the quick fold travel and communication dream of Bilrer.

Grace saying "We" confirms to me that LAI has a branch in Galaxy.

Which explains the Dimension eater and the VF-27 being similar to the VF-25.

Edited August 2, 2008 by RedWolf

[Final Vegeta]

We (gg) wait for the show to air on TBS for closed captions to ensure that the translation is accurate (which is especially important for a show like Macross which has a lot of technobabble and weird terms), which is on Fridays. We have the raw at around 20:15 (GMT+1) and released it at 01:21. I think taking 6-8 hours isn't really slow.

Thanks for your work, it is very appreciated. I would like to give you a suggestion, though: why not release a further script adjusted to the timing of MBS raws, for those who downloaded the first raws that come out? This is also an issue on the use of h264 encoding, which is tough on some computers. Those who release MBS raws do so in various formats and resolutions. I ask you this thinking you could have some way to do it in very little time.

FV

[VF-25S Full Armour]

Speaking of red Vajra nuke resistance, I'm not surprised in the slightest bit. It's conceptually no different from say overuse of DDT IRL. Apparently, they were NOT immune to extreme thermonuclear heat, but they did become extremely resistant. As for shedding an entire layer of skin, that's the explanation for their extreme durability right in front of us. It's no different from what the Apollo modules did back in the 60s, the concept off ABLATIVE ARMOUR. It's basically allowing a sacrificial layer of extremely heat resistant material to burn away to prevent excessive heat conduction to the vitals underneath it.

As for Grace, it's already firmly established that she (technically THEY) is and android with either downloaded former human minds or AIs or even a combination of both. There is absolutely no original organic material that we could observe on that body, so technically she is NOT a cyborg. By definition, cyborgs are a combination of both living organic matter and artificial parts, and Grace's body is absolutely synthetic.

Edited August 2, 2008 by VF-25S Full Armour

[Final Vegeta]

Speaking of red Vajra nuke resistance, I'm not surprised in the slightest bit. It's conceptually no different from say overuse of DDT IRL. Apparently, they were NOT immune to extreme thermonuclear heat, but they did become extremely resistant.

It could be that they were already resistant to bullets and missiles because of this reason, the clash with the 117 research fleet.

FV

[Shun]

Galaxy are the corporations that sponsored the 117th fleet while SMS was it's hired escort.

Grace and Galaxy-Anonymous are apparently seeking something more grander ambition than the quick fold travel and communication dream of Bilrer.

Grace saying "We" confirms to me that LAI has a branch in Galaxy.

Which explains the Dimension eater and the VF-27 being similar to the VF-25.

- I'm dont think that SMS was involved with the 117th. although we know from Ozma's flashback that he's already in SMS 10 years ago, i have the feeling that he was a NUNS pilot when he "rescued" Ranka. Actually i suspect he despised whatever the NUNS or 117th were doing so he quit NUNS immediately after the 117th vajra incident.

- Grace saying "we" was referring to her accomplices, and nothing she said suggested that LAI has a branch in M-Galaxy. And i don't think there is a LAI in M-Galaxy.

- LAI providing Dimension Eater to Grace was probably because she provided technical blueprints and even the vf-27 itself to LAI. VF-27 being similar to VF-25 could be because both were based on YF-24.

As for Grace, it's already firmly established that she (technically THEY) is and android with either downloaded former human minds or AIs or even a combination of both. There is absolutely no original organic material that we could observe on that body, so technically she is NOT a cyborg. By definition, cyborgs are a combination of both living organic matter and artificial parts, and Grace's body is absolutely synthetic.

is a robot with a real human mind an android? actually i'm not sure what name is technically correct...

[VF-25S Full Armour]

is a robot with a real human mind an android? actually I'm not sure what name is technically correct...

Technically, even if a humanoid robot had a real human mind that once belonged to a completely organic human before, it's STILL an android. For an example of a true cyborg, just take a look at the Borg from star trek. Since both their biological and technological mechanisms are integral to their function and survival, they are true cyborgs. So is Robocop, with major portions of Alex Murphy's brain running what's basically a humanoid tank. Same for Motoko Kusanagi when she is actually inhabiting a body with her original organic brain in it.

Terminators are referred to as Cyborgs("Cybernetic Organisms") too, though in technically the human skinned infiltrators (from the original T-800s to the T-888s) are still androids, if one follows the true meaning of "Cybernetic Organism" i.e. an organism that functions and survives via a synergy of organic and synthetic components.

Hope this clears things up.

Apparently, Grace and Co. are running an android body that is fully capable of physically reformatting itself to whatever shape it desires, within the limits that conservation of mass imposes AFAIK. This is pure speculation on my part for now, but I think she may be a Macross Universe analogue of the T-1000. Only time will tell.

Edited August 2, 2008 by VF-25S Full Armour

[VF-25 Messiah]

- I'm dont think that SMS was involved with the 117th. although we know from Ozma's flashback that he's already in SMS 10 years ago, i have the feeling that he was a NUNS pilot when he "rescued" Ranka. Actually i suspect he despised whatever the NUNS or 117th were doing so he quit NUNS immediately after the 117th vajra incident.

I agree. We know Ozma used to be in the NUNS and I'm thinking his assignment with 117th fleet was probably his last. I think Bilra was probably quick to pick him up after he resigned from the NUNS, he's an ace pilot and has experience facing the Vajra which has to have been rare. The flash back 10 years ago is when they're just moving into their new home, something that was perhaps made possible with a very generous first paycheck from joining the SMS.

[vanpang]

We (gg) wait for the show to air on TBS for closed captions to ensure that the translation is accurate (which is especially important for a show like Macross which has a lot of technobabble and weird terms), which is on Fridays. We have the raw at around 20:15 (GMT+1) and released it at 01:21. I think taking 6-8 hours isn't really slow.

Hi Suzuran, thanks for the all the hard work, GG is doing a great service to all anime fans so keeo up the good work !

[vanpang]

I just rewatched the episode the 3rd time (with gg's sub), I must say I am quite impressed with Capt Wilder, he did not even flinch one bit, when the Vajra's beam was heading towards the bridge. He has nerves of steel !

Edited August 2, 2008 by vanpang

[VF5SS]

Apparently, Grace and Co. are running an android body that is fully capable of physically reformatting itself to whatever shape it desires, within the limits that conservation of mass imposes AFAIK. This is pure speculation on my part for now, but I think she may be a Macross Universe analogue of the T-1000. Only time will tell.

You know she could just be using some shoulder pads and a little tape around the breasts. Sorta like what cosplayers do. Putting on pants and comfortable shoes doesn't make you a shapeshifter. Maybe a lesbian, but not a shapeshifter haha.

[Suzuran]

Thanks for your work, it is very appreciated. I would like to give you a suggestion, though: why not release a further script adjusted to the timing of MBS raws, for those who downloaded the first raws that come out? This is also an issue on the use of h264 encoding, which is tough on some computers. Those who release MBS raws do so in various formats and resolutions. I ask you this thinking you could have some way to do it in very little time.

FV

Well that depends to the raw. Some cappers decide to cut out the sponsor credit after the opening some don't. The one RAW that appeared on tokyotosho yesterday tagged as (Anime) was 1/1.5 sec off from our timed script. Just get aegisub and shift the timing for -1/1.5 sec.

6-8 hours is damn fast for a half hour (minus CMs) anime.

Though, why wait for TBS? The MBS broadcast also has the option for subtitles/closed captions.

Our capper doesn't get MBS.

[info600]

Rewatch that scene again, they tell you themselves.

errr, all the more reason i want to ask...

I'm sure you remember Sheryl making her way to the bridge.....

During Michael's conversation with Alto, it was related to Sheryl.

...as in the fact Cathy punished the 2 guys for sneaking Shreyl on board Quarter? haha

another thing, what did Alto said that made Cathy got them to do more laps? (the fact that Alto got quite a face afterwards says a lot there)

[magnuskn]

Hi Suzuran, thanks for the all the hard work, GG is doing a great service to all anime fans so keeo up the good work !

Aye, I also would like to voice my appreciation. Many, many thanks, guys!

[mike_s_6]

gg sub has been out. Check the first post for more details.

Can someone please help me, I feel so clueless... I looked at gg's website for the script and I can't see a 17 ass file there...

http://ggkthx.org/Scripts/MacF/

[RedWolf]

errr, all the more reason i want to ask...

...as in the fact Cathy punished the 2 guys for sneaking Shreyl on board Quarter? haha

another thing, what did Alto said that made Cathy got them to do more laps? (the fact that Alto got quite a face afterwards says a lot there)

Mikhail called her Oni (demon) while Alto says her being bossy is why guys stay away from her.

Cathy is Misa 2.0 basically. That reminded me back when the deculture version was shown I thought... Here we go again.

Insubordinate pilot and bossy military woman.

Alto doesn't seem to go for older women.

Edited August 2, 2008 by RedWolf

[VF-25S Full Armour]

You know she could just be using some shoulder pads and a little tape around the breasts. Sorta like what cosplayers do. Putting on pants and comfortable shoes doesn't make you a shapeshifter. Maybe a lesbian, but not a shapeshifter haha.

The T-1000 comment was just speculation along the lines that her shapeshifting abilities MIGHT be greater than what we've seen so far.

Of course, as you mentioned, there are lots of simple tricks that will seriously transform one's looks. But that won't explain away how she could morph her hand to such extremes back on Galia IV, or how she could generate tentacles to swap Sheryl's blood sample with an anomaly free substitute. The fact that Episode 17 does not show the complete sequence of her man->woman transformation isn't helping either. The shapeshifting abilities may or may not be limited to just her arms. For now, I'm sticking with the full body shapeshifter theory.

As I said, only time will tell.

Edited August 2, 2008 by VF-25S Full Armour

[vanpang]

Mikhail called her Oni (demon) while Alto says her being bossy is why guys stay away from her.

Cathy is Misa 2.0 basically. That reminded me back when the deculture version was shown I thought... Here we go again.

Insubordinate pilot and bossy military woman.

Alto doesn't seem to go for older women.

Yeah but who cares, Cathy has sexy legs