d3v Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Okay, episode 15 seriously got me doubting which is cooler, Ozma's Valkyrie or his car That thing is awesome Definitely his Lancia, I'd do almost anything to drive one of those IRL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChronoReverse Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 (edited) The F-22 Raptor does have delta wings. Well, not the traditional Delta configuration (see Eurofighter Typhoon). A Delta Wing is characterized by a triangular wing that eschews the tail control surfaces. The F-22's wings don't form a single triangle plus it has tail control surfaces and shouldn't be considered a normal delta wing. After looking it up, the shape of the F-22 wing is diamond Edited July 18, 2008 by ChronoReverse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Guld Goa Bowman Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Well, not the traditional Delta configuration (see Eurofighter Typhoon). A Delta Wing is characterized by a triangular wing that eschews the tail control surfaces. The F-22's wings don't form a single triangle plus it has tail control surfaces and shouldn't be considered a normal delta wing. After looking it up, the shape of the F-22 wing is diamond The F-22 doesn't have diamond wings, the vertical tails are diamond. These are diamond wings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChronoReverse Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 (edited) Let's be pedantic then. The F-22 has a modified diamond wing bordering on trapezoidal. http://www.codeonemagazine.com/archives/19...8/oct2a_98.html http://www.alaska.edu/uaf/cem/cee/esm/inde...-22_project.pdf Incidentally, this is what a delta wing looks like: Contrasting with your image of the F-22: And compare to the YF-23: A delta wing emphasizes the forward edge while the diamond wing combines both swept-forward and swept-back characteristics. Edited July 18, 2008 by ChronoReverse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Guld Goa Bowman Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Let's be pedantic then. The F-22 has a modified diamond wing bordering on trapezoidal. http://www.codeonemagazine.com/archives/19...8/oct2a_98.html http://www.alaska.edu/uaf/cem/cee/esm/inde...-22_project.pdf Incidentally, this is what a delta wing looks like: The Raptors wings are shaped like that because of its stealth characteristics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChronoReverse Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Does it matter _why_ the shape is like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Guld Goa Bowman Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Yes it does matter if your designing a stealth fighter, shape is one of the factors that gives the Raptor its ability to avoid enemy radar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChronoReverse Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 That's changing the topic. My original assertion was that the F-22 didn't have a delta wing. It doesn't matter why it doesn't, just that it doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Guld Goa Bowman Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 It does!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChronoReverse Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 It does!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can't tell if you're just being silly now... The letter Delta (which the wing is named after): Eurofighter with a delta wing: VS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Guld Goa Bowman Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 I can't tell if you're just being silly now... The letter Delta (which the wing is named after): Eurofighter with a delta wing: VS There is no law saying that you can only have on type of delta wing, there can be different versions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChronoReverse Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 (edited) But it matches the diamond configuration. The links I posted earlier says that the design teams decided on a diamond wing. http://www.codeonemagazine.com/archives/19...8/oct2a_98.html http://www.alaska.edu/uaf/cem/cee/esm/inde...-22_project.pdf You can't just take an apple and call it an orange by saying it's a different version of an orange. Edited July 18, 2008 by ChronoReverse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garou Kuroryuu Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 But it matches the diamond configuration. The links I posted earlier says that the design teams decided on a diamond wing. http://www.codeonemagazine.com/archives/19...8/oct2a_98.html http://www.alaska.edu/uaf/cem/cee/esm/inde...-22_project.pdf You can't just take an apple and call it an orange by saying it's a different version of an orange. ALL HAIL TO THE MOST BEAUTIFUL FIGHTER PLANE DESIGN AS OF TODAY! (just in case you've lived under a rock all of yer life, I'm talking about the YF-23) Regarding the delta/diamond/trapezoidal wing thing, I'll stick to whatever final word David has on this issue, and until he does, could you please stay on topic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChronoReverse Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 (edited) Who, what, huh? I'm completely confused now. David? In any case, the YF-24's wings is almost completely delta while the VF-25 has the uber-cool swing-wings. It's neat how the YF-24 side-profile is nearly identical to the VF-25. Incidentally, they were considering a variant of the F-22 that would've been a (modified) delta: Personally I'm a fan of the X-36 design... http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/gallery/Photo/X-36/Small/index.html Edited July 18, 2008 by ChronoReverse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Guld Goa Bowman Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 ALL HAIL TO THE MOST BEAUTIFUL FIGHTER PLANE DESIGN AS OF TODAY! (just in case you've lived under a rock all of yer life, I'm talking about the YF-23) Regarding the delta/diamond/trapezoidal wing thing, I'll stick to whatever final word David has on this issue, and until he does, could you please stay on topic? Agreed, the YF-23 is the most beautiful jet every built, should have won the ATF project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Dex Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 The F-22 was better in a number of aspects to the YF-23 which is why it was chosen but I agree, the 23 is really pretty. Speaking as an engineering student, I've met people who were on that design project, cool stuff. Also the wing configuration on the F-22 for stealth ability is called Plan-form Alignment. It uses the angle of the wings to deflect radar better than the materials they used of the F-117 (which I don't like much). Also, again speaking as an engineering student, the F-22 is considered to have delta wings because they are swept back. Even the B-2 Spirit and the F-14 are considered delta wing configuration. It just has to look a little like a triangle. The YF-23 is definitely a diamond shape though, much more than the F-22. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hingtgen Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 The YF-22 had diamond wings, though sorta delta-ish. But it was changed so much when it became the F-22, that it has at best "clipped semi-delta diamond" wings or something. It is by definition still a diamond, but barely---it's really close to a delta wing in function/aspect, and the h.stabs were "un-diamonded". The YF-23 (and F-104) are much more clearly diamond-winged and diamond-tailed. Diamond(my own guess at the definition): Trailing edge sweeps foward, leading edge sweeps back. While a delta has an unswept trailing edge, and a swept-back leading edge. Note the YF-23's trailing edge sweeps sharply forward, while the -22's is only slightly swept. (still waiting for my Ep 15 subs before I watch the ep--I expected them by this morning) So for the F-22--if it looks like a delta, and aerodynamically performs like a delta---but is technically a diamond... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Dex Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 The YF-22 had diamond wings (close enough). But it was changed so much when it became the F-22, that it has at best "clipped delta" wings or something. I don't think anyone considers the F-22 to be diamond-winged. Really technically, I think the production F-22 is a "tailed semi-delta" design---exact same as the F-15. (The F-22 is much more F-15ish than the YF-22 in many ways) Very true, in fact the F-22 is the primary replacement for the F-15. It just does so much more than the 15's original role though. The 22 really is an all around fighter that we will be seeing for at least the next 20 years as our front line fighter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azrael Posted July 18, 2008 Author Share Posted July 18, 2008 Okay kids, get back to Macross stuff. We have an Aircraft thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badboy00z Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 The top view of the YF-24 reminds me of the Super Sylph from Yukikaze. I actually prefer the wings of the SS over the 25. Not sure how it would look in battroid mode though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d3v Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 The top view of the YF-24 reminds me of the Super Sylph from Yukikaze. I actually prefer the wings of the SS over the 25. Not sure how it would look in battroid mode though. Probably close to how the VF-27 looks like in that mode, with the wings folded inwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWolf Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 Mecha rant ON It's been bugging me since Ep 6. Has anybody identified the model of this VF? Please don't tell me it'll be like the VF-4. You'll see the plane mode but not the battroid mode or gerwalk mode on screen. YF-24 to VF-25 YF-24 VF-25 Is it possible that the VF-27 is also derived from the YF-24? Macross Galaxy Still can't make head or tails where the NMC is. I'm starting to think this is the biggest Macross there is. If the people behind Galaxy are from the Global they may also have adopted the whole SDF Macross concept on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobbes221 Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 Hey RedWolf I don't think that bird is a VF, could be just a plain fighter. Although it kinda looks like the VF-2SS from Macross II to me. I would like to see more of it however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azrael Posted July 20, 2008 Author Share Posted July 20, 2008 It's been bugging me since Ep 6. Has anybody identified the model of this VF? Please don't tell me it'll be like the VF-4. You'll see the plane mode but not the battroid mode or gerwalk mode on screen. Probably just be a plane and nothing more. YF-24 to VF-25 Is it possible that the VF-27 is also derived from the YF-24? Possible. Macross Galaxy Still can't make head or tails where the NMC is. I'm starting to think this is the biggest Macross there is. If the people behind Galaxy are from the Global they may also have adopted the whole SDF Macross concept on it. Might not even have a New Macross-class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Final Vegeta Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 It's been bugging me since Ep 6. Has anybody identified the model of this VF? Please don't tell me it'll be like the VF-4. You'll see the plane mode but not the battroid mode or gerwalk mode on screen. Probably it's only a plane. Even Aquarion got a plane similar to the VF-4 (a shame that it was unnamed). Is it possible that the VF-27 is also derived from the YF-24? It does have almost identical transformation, so yes. Considering real life circumstances, designing a transforming mecha takes more time than a simple mecha, so having basically the same VF with cosmetic changes to make it look a bit different saves time. Internal justifications start from here. Still can't make head or tails where the NMC is. I'm starting to think this is the biggest Macross there is. If the people behind Galaxy are from the Global they may also have adopted the whole SDF Macross concept on it. I must say that Galaxy's design slightly reminds me of preproduction SDF-1's sketches. This is probably intentional, since after all even the Macross Quarter was a mixture of Macross 7 and SDF-1 (having unjustified shoulder towers in Storm Attacker mode). The SDF-1 was always designed as a transformable ship even in preproduction designs, so maybe even the Galaxy can transform. Here's a pic to explain my points. To the sides of the bridge of the Megaroad there are box-like things that becomes arms. Galaxy has similar things attached to the sides. Galaxy also appears to have something which looks like a leg below, pointing forward, twisted so that the point of the foot points downward. There seems to be another leg pointing backward, if those yellow flattened spheres are indeed some kind of joint. Galaxy doesn't have the splitting Macross Cannon designs, which belongs to first generation Macross only, but there seems to be a joint below so that perhaps it folds and come out on the back. We'll wait and see. FV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sketchley Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 Is it possible that the VF-27 is also derived from the YF-24? Most likely. Check out the central torso in battroid mode (compared with the VF-25.) Though, in the VF flow chart in Great Mechanics DX4, there was a question mark after the SV-51. So, me be thinking that in universe it will be based off the Sv-51, but in reality, the transformation is based off the VF-25 (this is presuming that the VF-25 was designed first.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWolf Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 Mahq.net VF-25F VF-25S VF-27 Looking at it closely it seems the VF-25 and VF-27 are sister designs. Using the same internal parts. Which reminds me how the VF-14 Nightmare design was converted into the Fz-109A Elgerzorene by the Protodevlin. Making the VF-27 sort of a true enemy Valkyrie for the VF-25. Since Grace had a LAI dimension eater I'm presuming that LAI has divisions on both Frontier and Galaxy. Both divisions took the YF-24's design aspects and made them into their own fighter designs. LAI Frontier made the VF-25 as a simple all around operations fighter with several variants. With compatible super packs and armor packs. LAI Galaxy on the otherhand made the VF-27 a special stealth operations fighter along the lines of the VF-22. Galaxy Anonymous initially rated the VF-25 as merely a grunt VF using regular Ex-gear interface while the VF-27 they have is aces caliber using direct brain control with implants and cybernetics. They forgot that it isn't the machine that makes the difference but the pilot. SMS has elite level pilots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumdumgai Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 I thought it was stated somewhere in an earlier episode or in a Kawamori interview that all designs after the YF-24 adapted its transformation process for use since it was so efficient, or something to that effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azrael Posted July 20, 2008 Author Share Posted July 20, 2008 I thought it was stated somewhere in an earlier episode or in a Kawamori interview that all designs after the YF-24 adapted its transformation process for use since it was so efficient, or something to that effect. I don't recall that. It's been said that the VF-25 features a efficient transforming design, but that was mentioned back in the VF-25 Naming Contest. I'm not sure how canon you want to take that since I have yet to see that mentioned outside the Naming Contest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumdumgai Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 Guess I might be remembering wrong again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Which reminds me how the VF-14 Nightmare design was converted into the Fz-109A Elgerzorene by the Protodevlin. The VF-17 is called Nightmare, not the VF-14. The VF-14 is called Vampire, at least the version in the Dreamcast M3 game (which is canon). The version shown in M7 is different. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWolf Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 The VF-17 is called Nightmare, not the VF-14. The VF-14 is called Vampire, at least the version in the Dreamcast M3 game (which is canon). The version shown in M7 is different. Graham Gets hit by a paper fan. Opps Forgot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfx Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Do not speak lies of Graham's fave mecha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronnang Dunn Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 (edited) The VF-14 is called Vampire, at least the version in the Dreamcast M3 game (which is canon). The version shown in M7 is different. Graham I never get tired of posting images of this VF... I like its design a lot, hehe... Edited July 22, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Dex Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 I never get tired of posting images of this VF... I like its design a lot, hehe... Must be a personal taste. It isn't bad but it doesn't get me like some other designs. It also has very small hands.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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