Macross Frontier Mecha/Technology Thread II *Read 1st Post*

[azrael]

Welcome to the Macross Frontier Mecha/Technology Thread

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Last post:

ANN says Junya Ishigaki (Macross Zero) and Takeshi Takakura (Aquarion).

FV

[Mr March]

Oh, I see. I wonder if those two designers are specifically responsible for the new ships. It can be difficult sometimes to know which designers worked on which mechanical designs.

[Morpheus]

Oh, I see. I wonder if those two designers are specifically responsible for the new ships. It can be difficult sometimes to know which designers worked on which mechanical designs.

All I know that Junya Ishigaki once work with Kawamori in Escaflowne designing the airships, so he could be the one who design the new ships seen in Galaxy Fleet.

[Kronnang Dunn]

All I know that Junya Ishigaki once work with Kawamori in Escaflowne designing the airships, so he could be the one who design the new ships seen in Galaxy Fleet.

Junya Ishigaki designed the VAJRA. He has worked in games too. Some of his designs are: Exkaiser, Gundam Wing, GPX Cyber Formula, Gundam F91, Gundam 0083, V Gundam, Gundam X, 08th MS Team, Iron League, Ryu Knight, Escaflowne, Outlaw Star, DT Eitoron, Eatman 98, Turn ? Gundam, King of Braves Gaogaigar Final, Angelic Layer, Zone of the Enders Dolores, Heat Guy J, Macross Zero, Xenogears (game), Xenosaga Episode 1 (game), SD Gundam G-Generation 0 (game), SD Gundam G-Generation F (game), Surveillance (game), G-Breaker (game), Gundam Wing Episode Zero (manga), Gundam Wing Battlefield of Pacifist (manga)...

[Kronnang Dunn]

Oh, I see. I wonder if those two designers are specifically responsible for the new ships. It can be difficult sometimes to know which designers worked on which mechanical designs.

Kazutaka Miyatake also worked in Space Battleship Yamato during 1974. He was 28 years old at the time. That's why his ships in Macross (1982) look inspired by Yamato's. He was also responsible for the creation of the Destroids, the Quaedlunn-Rau (my favorite mecha ever) & the Nousjaedul-Ger Meltrandi/Zentradi Power Armors in Macross & DYRL (the Nousja was heavily modified for DYRL by another designer... can't remember his name).

I believe Junya Ishikagi also did the re-design of Miyatake's original Quaedlunn-Rau for Frontier...

Edited May 11, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[Alastar]

Anyone wanna take a guess about the Firepower of the new Macross Quarter class?

[wolfx]

Probably around the same as a the old Macross if not more So far it doesn't look like it has a macross cannon though.

So i wonder why do people need two fold boosters? Greater distances?

And i think i should've mentioned this before, but space folds have never loooked better. It used to be "appear" with green effects with weird sci-fi SFX. Now its a whole big wormhole.

Nice touch that they explained a little about Fold Dislocation at the start of the episode, though I don't really get it. Further distances cause for more inaccurate space folds?

[Mark Nguyen]

Finally watched Episode 6...

-About the twinned fold booster on the VF-171: from at least one translation, they seem to be forced to make short hops to get from Frontier to Galaxy due to interference. This implies that fold boosters are re-useable, since with at least one stopover on a four leg trip you'd be short a couple one-shot boosters. Some have suggested that two boosters would essentially halve the recharge time, or allow for a quick getaway if they folded into a firefight. As these guys were a recon/scouting force, the latter would be useful. Don't think it was for the unfortunate pilots, though... Alternately, since the boosters were smaller than the versions seen in Macross Plus and 7, perhaps these ones are needed in pairs like Trekkish warp nacelles.

-So Macross Galaxy is not a typical dome ship at all, if the hulk we see in the one shot is Galaxy itself. There were two kinds of ships seen in that clip, the big orange bruiser later seen folding in, and a smaller green ship that looks a little like the Musai class from Gundam. No sign of an actual "Macross" style ship, as the name has always implied...

-Who's in actual charge of this rescue force? We only see several Gunatanamo-class carriers fold out with Macross Quarter. Is there a NUNS commander? Is Wilding in charge? I get the feeling that the NUNS forces will only be so much cannon fodder while SMS looks better - we'll only hear the screams of hapless 171 crew as they get shot to pieces.

-However, at least the SMS crew seemed to be loading ammo and warheads that would hopefully be more effective against the Vajra than in previous encounters. One would hope that NUNS have done the same.

-Is there a reason Macross Quarter is launching with a bunch of VF-25s strapped to the flight deck? It DOES look really, really cool, but we usually see fighters safely tucked INSIDE the folding ship, only launching into combat after it arrives. Are these fighters ready to launch? If so, why aren't they ON the catapults? I suppose an exception can be made to newer fighters, which probably must be hardened against the rigors of fold space and therefore CAN stay outside a ship in a fold if need be. But if they're folding into a combat zone, why isn't everyone on deck or hanging on to the hull, ready to launch at a moment's notice?

-About M1/4's firepower - it DOES seem to have a big gun, which composes the entire right arm. This of course renews the issue of WHY we need the ship to transform in the first place. If then cannon works fine in cruiser mode, you should simply be able to reorient the ship to point it in the direction you want to fire. The original Macross had to transform to made their cannon's three-prong fit into the wall socket; the New Macross and M1/4 ships shouldn't have this issue.

-And further distances equalling inaccurate folds makes sense to me. I get the impression you can't navigate while in a fold - there are no signposts along the way. As fold space is inherently turbulent, you could be knocked off course the further you go along. We have some examples of incredible control over short range folding (most notably when Geper-whatever folded a reaction warhead from IN HIS FACE to just off the side of Stargazer) but it figures that longer distances would require a level of power and control not capable in Macross physics. On the flipside, a beacon or something could make precise, longer-range folding possible, if Bodolza's fleet had something for Britai's ship to home in on, or if Earth's exact coordinates were known so the factory satellite could get there with limited trouble.

Mark

Edited May 12, 2008 by Mark Nguyen

[Zinjo]

Probably around the same as a the old Macross if not more So far it doesn't look like it has a macross cannon though.

Actually the Attacker mode appears to have a classic cannon on the right arm. How powerful it is will have to be seen. IIRC the NMC's cannon is not as powerful as the SDF-1's.

Nice touch that they explained a little about Fold Dislocation at the start of the episode, though I don't really get it. Further distances cause for more inaccurate space folds?

The way I understand it, the Fold "disclocation"(?) requires more energy to push through. No doubt the classic Zentreadi fold generators could do it, but it appears to be an unecessary power cost for human fold generators, not so much any sort of barrier.

Likely these areas are gravity wells created by things like stars and black holes. Since the ship travels in Super Dimension space, it is possible that such objects would create a ripple affect or create additional density in that space... Just a theory mind you.

[vanpang]

[

So i wonder why do people need two fold boosters? Greater distances?

Maybe or probably for safety reasons, if one fold booster is busted, you still can rely on the second to get you back ! You do not want to be stuck alone on the other side of the galaxy when your one and only one fold booster is busted !

[azrael]

Actually the Attacker mode appears to have a classic cannon on the right arm. How powerful it is will have to be seen. IIRC the NMC's cannon is not as powerful as the SDF-1's.

While perhaps not as powerful (although I'm sure it could be), New-Macross class gunship units are probably more efficient and have more options than the original.

The way I understand it, the Fold "disclocation"(?) requires more energy to push through. No doubt the classic Zentreadi fold generators could do it, but it appears to be an unecessary power cost for human fold generators, not so much any sort of barrier.

Any large-scale ship (Larger Zentradi and even the New Macross-class) should have enough energy to overcome more serious issues of folding, so this issue doesn't appear to be limited to just human or Zendradi ships. I would wager that in this case, size matters. The more energy from the powerplant, the less issues there are in folding. Hence, another reason the need for 2 fold boosters on those VF-171s. Ships like the Uraga carriers, frigates, or Macross Quarter may have less issues than VFs using a fold-booster but a few more than the New Macross-class.

The specs for the 2040-era VF fold booster seem to indicate issues beyond the 20-light year mark for 1-way trips.

[Zinjo]

-So Macross Galaxy is not a typical dome ship at all, if the hulk we see in the one shot is Galaxy itself. There were two kinds of ships seen in that clip, the big orange bruiser later seen folding in, and a smaller green ship that looks a little like the Musai class from Gundam. No sign of an actual "Macross" style ship, as the name has always implied...

That appears to be one of the larger battle ships of the Galaxy fleet. We have yet to see what the Galaxy looks like. It's not a dome ship, so there is a possibility it "may" look like the Varuata base ship from 7, but so far it's a mystery. We do know that the Vajra breached the hull and were inside.

-Who's in actual charge of this rescue force? We only see several Gunatanamo-class carriers fold out with Macross Quarter. Is there a NUNS commander? Is Wilding in charge? I get the feeling that the NUNS forces will only be so much cannon fodder while SMS looks better - we'll only hear the screams of hapless 171 crew as they get shot to pieces.

In a state of war, the SMS are considered an arm of the military and fall under its jurisdiction. Ultimately the President is in charge, but I'm sure there is a NUNS commander in charge of the SAR operation as a whole.

-However, at least the SMS crew seemed to be loading ammo and warheads that would hopefully be more effective against the Vajra than in previous encounters. One would hope that NUNS have done the same.

That appears to be anti-ECA munitions since they discovered that the Vajra have superior ECA compared to them.

-Is there a reason Macross Quarter is launching with a bunch of VF-25s strapped to the flight deck? It DOES look really, really cool, but we usually see fighters safely tucked INSIDE the folding ship, only launching into combat after it arrives. Are these fighters ready to launch? If so, why aren't they ON the catapults? I suppose an exception can be made to newer fighters, which probably must be hardened against the rigors of fold space and therefore CAN stay outside a ship in a fold if need be. But if they're folding into a combat zone, why isn't everyone on deck or hanging on to the hull, ready to launch at a moment's notice?

Mark

Well most US Aircraft carriers carry some of their fighters on deck and since the Quarter is not much larger than a Nimitz class carrier, it would make sense that some of the fighters remain on deck.

Edited May 12, 2008 by Zinjo

[Zinjo]

While perhaps not as powerful (although I'm sure it could be), New-Macross class gunship units are probably more efficient and have more options than the original.

That is debatable, since the Macross had a sort of energy discharge type of blast resulting from an energy build up between the two arms, whereas the NMC's gunship is more internalized. If the Vajra are any indicator, the energy build up is important for full potency and that tends to arc a lot...

[Morpheus]

That is debatable, since the Macross had a sort of energy discharge type of blast resulting from an energy build up between the two arms, whereas the NMC's gunship is more internalized. If the Vajra are any indicator, the energy build up is important for full potency and that tends to arc a lot...

If the original series homage continues, we may see modified Daedalus maneuver here. The right arm are used to grapple enemy ships and fired it at point blank range.

[Duke Togo]

Maybe I am wrong here, but it sure looks like both arms of the Quarter split open (to fire?).

[Morpheus]

Maybe I am wrong here, but it sure looks like both arms of the Quarter split open (to fire?).

The right arm can be seen split up in the OP, so this arm is probably the weapons module. The left arm is the carrier module, this configuration resemble SDF-1 Macross (right arm Daedalus, left arm Promotheus). I don't think the carrier module can split up or have any heavier armaments.

Need official confirmation here....

[Graham]

I'm just wondering if the attacker mode shown in the opening animation is actually the Macross Quarter, or if it is the full size Macross 25/Battle 25 (whatever it is called)?

Graham

[Mr March]

I think it's the Macross Quarter graham. The "attack mode" ship at the end of the Frontier OP has the same bridge and arms as the Macross Quarter (especially telling is the right arm) and the colors match the Macross Quarter. Also, you'll note the Macross/Battle 25 looks very much like the New Macross Class. Watch the beginning of Macross Frontier episode 1 during the inital Frontier flyby and you can clearly see the distinct features of the NMC vessel, just with a lot more detail

[Duke Togo]

The right arm can be seen split up in the OP, so this arm is probably the weapons module. The left arm is the carrier module, this configuration resemble SDF-1 Macross (right arm Daedalus, left arm Promotheus). I don't think the carrier module can split up or have any heavier armaments.

Need official confirmation here....

I dunno, it sure does look split to me in the opening. I could totally be wrong, of course.

[taksraven]

Kazutaka Miyatake also worked in Space Battleship Yamato during 1974. He was 28 years old at the time. That's why his ships in Macross (1982) look inspired by Yamato's. He was also responsible for the creation of the Destroids, the Quaedlunn-Rau (my favorite mecha ever) & the Nousjaedul-Ger Meltrandi/Zentradi Power Armors in Macross & DYRL (the Nousja was heavily modified for DYRL by another designer... can't remember his name).

Thats a pretty cool resume.

Taksraven

[taksraven]

Nice touch that they explained a little about Fold Dislocation at the start of the episode, though I don't really get it. Further distances cause for more inaccurate space folds?

I think that it meant the more distance you travelled the dislocation caused you to expend increasing amounts of energy to compensate. I think that it was an attempt to limit the range of spacefolds.

Taksraven

[taksraven]

The right arm can be seen split up in the OP, so this arm is probably the weapons module. The left arm is the carrier module, this configuration resemble SDF-1 Macross (right arm Daedalus, left arm Promotheus). I don't think the carrier module can split up or have any heavier armaments.

Need official confirmation here....

The right arm splits open into a giant tuning fork so the Sound Force can tune their instruments. :lol:

Sorry 'bout that.

I think that it is more likely to resemble the classic configuration. Maybe the SMS have some Destroid cannon fodder sitting in that arm that we haven't seen yet. Does the transformable Monster classify as a destroid or an aircraft??

Taksraven

[Master Dex]

By looking at what we've seen of the Macross Quarter in ep.6 and the attacker mode ship in the opening, I am 99% certain that that is indeed the Macross Quarter, the head resembles the 'bridge' section, the arms look right (the right arm obviously being the one split open) and the legs can easily be folded back to match the Quarter's engines. Also of note is the two 'shoulder' pieces that are reminiscent of the SDF Macross match pieces on the upper back the Quarter in ship mode.

I agree that Fold Dislocation represents a limitation in space fold technology, much like how in Star Trek, the faster you go in warp the higher the power requirements (on the TNG scale anyway) to a point where your requiring large amounts of power just to move even a little faster (of course that is when getting closer to warp 10, which is an impossible infinite speed requiring infinite power). However I think fold dislocation is something that can be overcome with more advancement in technology, but there will always be a limit to how far you can go in a certain time frame I believe.

[Alastar]

I think that it is more likely to resemble the classic configuration. Maybe the SMS have some Destroid cannon fodder sitting in that arm that we haven't seen yet. Does the transformable Monster classify as a destroid or an aircraft??

Taksraven

I think it counts as a aircraft. It goes from Shuttle mode to GerWalk ( The Monster config we all cant wait to see) and a soldier mode...dont kno what its capabilities are in this mode. dont even know why they want a Soldier mode for this mecha but o well. We will see.

[Morpheus]

Have anyone translate the Ghost fighter explanation from the Newtype page? All I can get is that some of the Ghost can be controlled by Luca. Is this the same Ghost as Ghost X-9 from Plus or a different model.

Also if the Vajra could jammed the Ghost AI/sensory equipment, how can Luca controlled his pet Ghost later?

I already checked with the compendium, however it seems like the article on the Ghost (both from Frontier and Plus) is not finished yet.

[grss1982]

Just wandered around yahoo and came to this interesting link: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080514/ap_on_...7Lmlk9eLsT9xg8F

Looks like X-Gears will be upon us soon. Hope it comes with a VF-25 is also in the works.

BUT seriously. whatever inspired SK to feature X-Gears in Macross Frontier? Those Ride Armors from that other 80's mecha show, perhaps?.

Edited May 15, 2008 by grss1982

[taksraven]

Real life Ex-Gear on the way??

Check it out.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/technology/is-i...0764985698.html

Taksraven

Edited May 15, 2008 by taksraven

[grss1982]

^^ Check the post before yours.

Beat you to it.

Even had it posted in MW's "Science and Technology MEGA THREAD" (http://macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showforum=26)

Edited May 15, 2008 by grss1982

[Duke Togo]

That's GI Joe, dude!

[Mark Nguyen]

Have anyone translate the Ghost fighter explanation from the Newtype page? All I can get is that some of the Ghost can be controlled by Luca. Is this the same Ghost as Ghost X-9 from Plus or a different model.

Also if the Vajra could jammed the Ghost AI/sensory equipment, how can Luca controlled his pet Ghost later?

No information as yet. However, we'll have our answers within hours! Note that in episode 6:

-Luca's (or a green) RVF-25 was seen in battroid mode against a wall, whilst right after we see him in a VF-25 cockpit in fighter mode

-He is earlier seen polishing the sensor blister of a Ghost, calling it "Johann"

Also, lineart of a green Super VF-25 similar to Alto's fighter has been released, suggesting that Luca is either piloting that or his standard RVF-25 this week. I'm thinking he is actually flying the more combat oriented fighter in episode 7, controlling the Ghosts with some specialized equipment and still staying mostly out of the fight.

The Ghosts themselves are very similar to the X-9 design from Macross Plus, down to the FAST packs; it's definitely derived from ol' red. Hopefully we'll see them used more effectively this time out!

Mark

[Kronnang Dunn]

One of Luca's ghosts bought a farm in Ep 7.

Btw...

The VF-27 had some pretty strange symbols on it. Seemed of alien origin, but they weren't

Zentradi. Protoculture perhaps? The escorts were green colored & also had the big beam weapon the red one used to waste the dead small Vajra Alto found inside the Vajra Carrier. This could indicate a third party allegiance for the VF-27s...

Edited May 15, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[IAD]

Nobody's mentioned that the VF-27 is apparently fold capable, without an external fold booster?

And that cockpit must really improve situational awareness.

~Luke

[Morpheus]

Nobody's mentioned that the VF-27 is apparently fold capable, without an external fold booster?

And that cockpit must really improve situational awareness.

~Luke

Looks like VF-27 is a result from reverse engineering the Vajra.

[Duke Togo]

Looks like VF-27 is a result from reverse engineering the Vajra.

Not saying you are right or wrong, just curious about what prompts you to say that?

[Kurisama]

This new VF just SCREAMS SV-51 lineage!!! Could be a evolution of the design? After all, the SV-51 is technically the first VF... Seeing as the UN 'stole' the designs from the Anti-UN....