Maximiria Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 (edited) Actually no, Drifand was one of the first here that mentioned how the 1/48 could be improved. Since he presented it in a constructive manner, no one gave him flack. Yamato does deserve criticism with regards to quality control, but I don't think they should be deemed lazy with regards to the skinny legs on the YF-21. Also, they could have been working on that toy for years, and if thats the case, thats anything but lazy. Any transforming toy will have some sort of compromise. The toy vs model debate could go on for years, and it has gone on that long since some toy companies started to cater towards adults. For those who want a huge leg battroid, the best bet is either a Hasegawa, a scratch build, or a resin kit. None would survive the stresses associated with a transforming toy. A huge leg for now may not be possible with a sleeker underside on the fuselage, and a sleek fuselage/side profile is integral to the aesthetic of the YF-21. The D'stance is far superior and it's only 1:72. Obviously it should be possible at 1:60. Why accept imperfection when perfection has been achieved years ago in a smaller size? I'm sorry, but there really is no excuse for those skinny legs. edit: thanks sumdumgai I'll do that Edited December 28, 2007 by Maximiria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignacio Ocamica Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 (edited) When the 1/48 vf1 came out I'm sure alot of poeple thought it couldn't be improved upon, that the skinny arms and long nosecone were unavoidable. Well they were obviously wrong. It was improved, in a smaller scale! I'm going to disagree like you are disagreeing regarding the YF-21. The new VF-1 improved only in the battroid departament. The new 1/60 VF-1 is an atrocity in fighter mode. The nosecone is too short and fat, and the canopy is still wide and bulbous like the 1/48!! I can show you extensive lineart where the sleek "mosquito" nose and canopy of the old 1/60 VF-1 (as we named it years ago here in MW) is a better rendition than the new VF-1. From my perspective I've lost more with the compromises of the VF-1 than the YF-21. The new YF-21 is almost pure perfection in fighter mode (look at the lineart). If it were a real plane it would transform into the battroid we are seeing. Both of us equally love the YF-21 and the VF-1, you've lost with the former I've lost with the latter I feel obliged to say that the YF-21 matches the lineart better than the VF-1. The image of the VF-22 battroid you posted is tweaked and disproportionate. Take a look at the image ruskiiVFaussie posted and you can't deny that the Yamato incarnation is not that far off. The Yamato YF-21 is a beauty and I'd also say it's better than the D'stance. Just my 0.02 cents EDIT: pic courtesy of Mr March's excellent website!!!! Edited December 28, 2007 by Ignacio Ocamica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 The D'stance is far superior and it's only 1:72. Obviously it should be possible at 1:60. Why accept imperfection when perfection has been achieved years ago in a smaller size? I'm sorry, but there really is no excuse for those skinny legs. edit: thanks sumdumgai I'll do that The Dstance is a model, and if I'm not mistaken a garage kit at that, not meant to withstand handling, merely made for display and occasional posing. A toy and model are completely different animals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximiria Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 I'm going to disagree like you are disagreeing regarding the YF-21. The new VF-1 improved only in the battroid departament. The new 1/60 VF-1 is an atrocity in fighter mode. The nosecone is too short and fat, and the canopy is still wide and bulbous like the 1/48!! I can show you extensive lineart where the sleek "mosquito" nose and canopy of the old 1/60 VF-1 (as we named it years ago here in MW) is a better rendition than the new VF-1. From my perspective I've lost more with the compromises of the VF-1 than the YF-21. The new YF-21 is almost pure perfection in fighter mode (look at the lineart). If it were a real plane it would transform into the battroid we are seeing. Both of us equally love the YF-21 and the VF-1, you've lost with the former I've lost with the latter I feel obliged to say that the YF-21 matches the lineart better than the VF-1. The image of the VF-22 battroid you posted is tweaked and disproportionate. Take a look at the image ruskiiVFaussie posted and you can't deny that the Yamato incarnation is not that far off. The Yamato YF-21 is a beauty and I'd also say it's better than the D'stance. Just my 0.02 cents EDIT: pic courtesy of Mr March's excellent website!!!! Valid points but in both cases you must consider the drop in scale. I give the dstance extra points for having the muscular legs that bell-out noticeably at the calves and thighs - even with the limitations of such a small size. The yamato legs are anorexic and not muscular in the least. I'm sure the fighter mode on the new 1/60 would have looked better if the vf-1 was not so small. If it was the same size as the rest of the mecha like the 1/48 who knows how good it could have been? Can you point out ONE area where the yamato is superior to the d-stance proportion-wise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugimon Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 You mean I don't have to buy all of them? Not you man, that rule only applies to mere mortals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignacio Ocamica Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 While I like the D'stance, the neck is too long (it really spoils fighter for me). That would be the ONE area where the Yamato is superior (although I believe there are more, but that's my opinion) You are right that the legs are more muscular on the D'stance Overall I still like Yamato's interpretation better. It's a shame that you are still looking for the perfect YF-21 (which I found with the 1/60 YF-21) as I'm still looking for the perfect VF-1!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugimon Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Wow. Let me bring this full circle guys. Maximiria is battying, Eugimon is battying about the battying, and now I'm gonna batty about the battying about the battying. Maximiria has a legitimate complaint: the leg's don't match the lineart. Yeah, I know, it's impossible to make the legs like the lineart, because the lineart is meant to look "cool," instead of having proportions that are actually possible. I personally prefer a sleek fighter mode to a lineart-accurate battroid, so this problem doesn't bug me so much. But I'm not gonna flame Maximiria just because he's found a reason to dislike the 1/60 YF-21. Not only should Maximiria be entitled to his opinion, he should be entitled to voice his complaints without getting flamed. When you accuse someone of battying for voicing their opinion, that's just rude. Maximiria, you're not alone. Every time a new Yamato toy comes out, there are a few people that voice legitimate concerns, and they are always lynched. I think I've figured out this phenomenon: People who spend thousands of dollars on toys, who's very happiness relies on buying toys, get extremely emotional when you challenge the greatness of a toy they plan on buying. I know it's stupid, but it happens EVERY TIME. Please, I didn't start out "lynching" (and I'm offended to the core you would even use that word in this context) anyone. I merely pointed out that allowances had to be made in translating anime into a toy and why some people may not place the same level importance on the thickness of the legs. It's called a DISCUSSION. He then continued to escalate the discussion with snide and condescending remarks. He also completely ignores anything that might contradict his views or any reasoning why maybe someone doesn't share his opinion. I'm sorry, but he's the only one flaming people for having a differing opinion. In the past, I have bitched about people who look at a blurry snapshot of a partial CAD and start moaning about the end of the world, but once you've seen the thing and don't like it, that's fine. Drifand doesn't like the 1/48 and he has legitimate reasons why, yet he doesn't need to spam every other post with increasing hostile rhetoric on why he doesn't like it. I also notice he doesn't resort to insulting people who disagree with him in order to get his view across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badboy00z Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 I propose two sets of swap-able legs then. One skinny set and one fat set. Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
physioguy Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 The funny thing here is: a) Kawamori created these wonderous things, b) he drew them up (ie: wrote them down on paper), c) us fanatics follow the line art and anime, some want the fighter mode line art followed more closely, others the battroid mode, d) then we all fight about who is more right and what part is more important kinda like a religion; a) (someone - or some divine being - creates it), b) someone writes it down on paper c) fanatics follow the written word, some want this chapter or book followed, others want something else d) then we all fight about who's got it more right, and in the meantime, the world goes on and Kawamori is probably busy making new armored core leg parts (or whatever) Disclaimer: I don't mean to offend, just to make a stupid analogy. For those non-religious people, we can all believe a person wrote the story of many religions, and to all the religious people out there, we can view Kawamori as a divine being.... I'm happy either way. I'm stoked for all these new 1/60s! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante74 Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Umm, can we go back to posting pics of Zardoz and calling each other mentally deficient? (Dante74, stop. It was a JOKE. Leave the Zardoz pic back on your hard drive. ) Hu? What? We need a pic of Zardoz? Can I post it again? Can I, can I?! Please?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumdumgai Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Quick somebody get a tranquilizer and put Dante74 under for a bit! We'll wake him back up when the YF-21 comes out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugimon Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Quick somebody get a tranquilizer and put Dante74 under for a bit! We'll wake him back up when the YF-21 comes out! me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperHobo Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 me too. Shots fired man down man DOWN!! Dante is down over over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hingtgen Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Part of the reason the D'stance looks the way it does, it that it doesn't have retractable gear. If you want "gear up" you completely remove them and close the doors. There are no gear bays. And that's a big "no-no" for a Yamato valk--people expect working landing gear. There's a lot more room to work with inside a valk if you don't have landing gear to deal with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drifand Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 I know I've been riding Yamato hard over the 1/48's overall proportions but in this case (and that of of the '19), I really have to say they have done a more than admirable job. The M+ designs are a whole lot more complex than the VF-1 and it's simply impossible to match the line art totally in every mode. Plus, compared to the original series, I'd say M+ places an even greater emphasis on the FLYING. Who knows? It may just come full circle a few years later. Everyone sated on 1/60 toys... then BOOM! 1/48 YF-19 and 21 for the Macross fan who *thought* he already had everything. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kensei Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Hu? What? We need a pic of Zardoz? Can I post it again? Can I, can I?! Please?! If you want the wrath of all four corners of the world upon you, go ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Mancini Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 The D'stance is far superior and it's only 1:72. Obviously it should be possible at 1:60. Why accept imperfection when perfection has been achieved years ago in a smaller size? I'm sorry, but there really is no excuse for those skinny legs. edit: thanks sumdumgai I'll do that I'm sorry, but I strongly disagree with the D'Stance looking superior to the Yamato. Aside from the forward fuselage of the D'Stance being just plain wrong, the Yammie kills the D' in just about every way IMO. You be the judge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumdumgai Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Oh wow, I didn't remember that piece between the cockpit and the headlaser on the D-stance! Yeah, I agree that the Yamato pretty much blows the D-stance out of the water. Thanks for putting up the comparison pics vic mancini! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximiria Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 (edited) While I like the D'stance, the neck is too long (it really spoils fighter for me). That would be the ONE area where the Yamato is superior (although I believe there are more, but that's my opinion) You are right that the legs are more muscular on the D'stance Overall I still like Yamato's interpretation better. It's a shame that you are still looking for the perfect YF-21 (which I found with the 1/60 YF-21) as I'm still looking for the perfect VF-1!!! Yeah ok the neck IS too long, I take back what I said abotu the D'stance being yf-21 perfection I can't beleive I didn't notice how long the neck, now I wonder WHY. The rest of it seems to be as perfect as a 1:72 could hope to be. Why all the zardoz hate? That movie kicks ass! edit: Long neck aside, the D'stance is proof that it's not impossible to have more anime-accurate legs AND a sleek fighter! Edited December 28, 2007 by Maximiria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronocidal Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Ughh, personally I wouldn't call that fighter sleek.. maybe slim, but that thing is fugly. Looks like a goose with that neck. Is that neck extension even necessary? I don't even see it in battroid. Engine humps look like they got sat on, to boot. Anyway, I haven't seen the D-Stance underside (under the folding panels that is), so I can't say whether this is the case, but we haven't seen the Yamato underside either. Does the D-Stance have a detailed interior for when the legs fold out (inside vents and all that) or is it a hollow shell underneath? If it's hollow, I would guess that's where they made room for the bigger legs, in which case, the Yamato probably has a fully fleshed out interior (which might be the case, judging by the amount of stuff visible in the interior of the transparent version shown in the recent 1/60 VF-1 ad). That means, there's less room, and they might have sacrificed thicker legs for a detailed underside (and maybe a delimiter mode). Again, I don't know the D-Stance, so it may have the same thing, and still have thicker legs. Really though, I have a dumb question... does it matter? Nothing anyone says here is going to change the way it's been built. Yeah, it might be possible for them to make the legs thicker. It's also possible that Ford could start manufacturing engines with carburetors that get 100 miles per gallon for every car they sell. But they're not going to. So if you want it, you'll have to do it yourself. Or, if you're that upset, just don't buy it, and build your own better version that caters to exactly what you want. You'll be happy, I'll be happy with a sweet looking fighter mode to display, and best of all, we can stop arguing over an issue that we can't change. Yamato picked the current design for a reason. If you want to know why, take it up with them. Sheesh. The amount of calories burnt on this thread could probably have fed a small third world country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scream Man Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 im not a fan of the dstance at all. Its al to long for my tastes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximiria Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 (edited) underside of 1:72 d'stance underside of 1:60 yamato Edited December 28, 2007 by Maximiria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfx Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Skinny legs or not...the Yamato wins for me. The only plus the D-stance has for me is that the head rotates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugimon Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 im not a fan of the dstance at all. Its al to long for my tastes. yeah, I agree. I liked it better than the 1/72, but now it looks overly stretched out and battroid just doesn't compare to the 1/60, fat legs or not. The torso is too long, the cowl looks more like a pointy hat, and the feet are too long. And seeing how oversized the back is, I can understand why the wings on the 1/60 are the size they are (I had wished they were larger) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximiria Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Skinny legs or not...the Yamato wins for me. The only plus the D-stance has for me is that the head rotates. A rotating head is more important than anime accurate legs? Clearly it _was_ possible for yamato to do both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 A rotating head is more important than anime accurate legs? Clearly it _was_ possible for yamato to do both. On a parts swapping resin kit, not a toy. Obviously, you love the D stance kit, skip the Yamato 1/60 YF-21, and buy yourself the D stance. Then you'll have nothing to complain about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximiria Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 On a parts swapping resin kit, not a toy. Obviously, you love the D stance kit, skip the Yamato 1/60 YF-21, and buy yourself the D stance. Then you'll have nothing to complain about. I'll tell you what, if you find a D'stance for sale (good luck with that) I'll buy it just for the killer battroid mode. I only brought it up because people claimed it was -impossible- to fit decent legs into a sleek fighter. It was done on a 1:72. It should have been easier to do the same on the 1:60 but it seems yamato couldn't even include a rotating head! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugimon Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 On a parts swapping resin kit, not a toy. Obviously, you love the D stance kit, skip the Yamato 1/60 YF-21, and buy yourself the D stance. Then you'll have nothing to complain about. the D-Stance is thicker in fighter mode that the 1/60 as well. The yamato's belly slopes pretty smoothly into the wing while the d-stance has a definite "step" from the wing to the body. Plus the D-stance has those oversized bubble intakes and the shoulder assembly is hidden on the yamato while the d-stance just leaves it all there in the under-carriage. but hey, the d-stance still has thicker legs. Even though they got the cowl wrong, the feet wrong, elongated the fuselage, relied on swappable parts, and over-sized the nacelles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximiria Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 the D-Stance is thicker in fighter mode that the 1/60 as well. Of course you have pictures that make this comparison possible, and you're going to share them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowman Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 (edited) the D-Stance is thicker in fighter mode that the 1/60 as well. The yamato's belly slopes pretty smoothly into the wing while the d-stance has a definite "step" from the wing to the body. Plus the D-stance has those oversized bubble intakes and the shoulder assembly is hidden on the yamato while the d-stance just leaves it all there in the under-carriage. but hey, the d-stance still has thicker legs. Even though they got the cowl wrong, the feet wrong, elongated the fuselage, relied on swappable parts, and over-sized the nacelles. And that is why maximiria thinks the D-Stance is superior to the Yamato design. Maximiria, look i totally agree that the legs are less thick (i wouldn't call it muscular) compared to the anime/lineart and that is a bit dissapointing but if you compare these two designs, the Yamato one is the clear winner. Since you like to talk about perfection of the older models, i can tell you this there can never be a perfect transforming toy for the YF-21. Look at the lineart of the battroid mode, the length of the fuselage is quite short compared with the length of the legs while if you look at the toys it's almost the same length as the legs. This is not a design flaw at all, because in fighter mode (lineart and toys) the fuselage is almost identical (Yamato design ofcourse, the D-Stance looks like crap to me) It's obvious that you can draw a sleek fighter/battroid for the lineart and anime but when it comes to making a toy it's a totally different story. The only solution is to create a seperate toy for each mode (not transformable) if you want pure perfection for each mode. I hope you have talent enough to make them yourself Edited December 28, 2007 by bowman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyp Durron Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 That Dstance looks like poo, I'll take the Yamato 1/60 all day long. To me, the Dstance is much less accurate overall than the Yamato (Especially with that ridiculously long fuselage.) and the 1/60 is looking like one of the very best Yamato offerings to date. If you don't like it, fine, don't buy it...more for us! -Kyp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugimon Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 (edited) there you go. You can see where the yamato blends the undercarriage into the wings and the dstance has a big step. You can see the oversized nacelles and how that makes the tailfins look small on the dstance. You can see the elongated neck and the over sized bubble intakes. Also apparant is the relatively clumsy way the shoulder/arm assembly is hidden in the d stance compared to the yamato 1/60. And no, the two pics are not a true side by side and the d stance is 1/72 scale compared to the 1/60 scale of the yamato but I don't feel like doing the math to do the appropriate scale change on the picture of the d stance to give a true comparison. But the fact that the LARGER yamato 1/60 is the almost the same thickness as the smaller 1/72 d stance... And, yamato got its slim profile even WITH fully retractable landing gears. Edited December 28, 2007 by eugimon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charger69 Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Yamato YF-21!! What a sleek profile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante74 Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Can I post a Zardoz pic yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mog Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 (edited) Let me preface this by saying that I still love those pics of the D'Stance YF-21 (Hell, I still have the website bookmarked). BUT I do see an issue with the D'Stance's "beefy" legs: there's some rather unsightly gaps around the joints, especially at the knees. As for Yamato's offerring, my only concerns with the feet and legs are that they be poseable as heck but sturdy enough to easily hold the battroid upright. Honestly, the "look" of the legs never really bothered me all that much. Edit: Geeze Dante74!! Are you mentally deficient or something?!!! Edited December 28, 2007 by Mog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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