Valkyrie addict Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 so...I was wondering, the Zentradis are supposed to be a race that can't fix their technology, so, then, who built all their ships?? and if they can't fix things, it means they can't upgrade their technology either, so then, will they use their same ships and weapons forever?? we did see a different zentraedi suit on Macross plus, so then, what's the deal??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briscojr84 Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 so...I was wondering, the Zentradis are supposed to be a race that can't fix their technology, so, then, who built all their ships?? and if they can't fix things, it means they can't upgrade their technology either, so then, will they use their same ships and weapons forever?? we did see a different zentraedi suit on Macross plus, so then, what's the deal??? Being unable to repair their own technology was more of a Robotech thing, otherwise Kamjin would never have gotten that gunship off of the ground, they probably didn't know all the intricacy of repair and retrofit but could still do some stuff but for the major stuff relied heavily on the factory satellites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Focker Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 so...I was wondering, the Zentradis are supposed to be a race that can't fix their technology, so, then, who built all their ships?? and if they can't fix things, it means they can't upgrade their technology either, so then, will they use their same ships and weapons forever?? we did see a different zentraedi suit on Macross plus, so then, what's the deal??? In the series towards the end the seem capable of getting Kamjin ship in ship space. By Macross Plus one of them is an engineer who designs VF for General Galaxy. Even before the their full contact with human they showed signs of patching up. Prior to contact they did the best they could and used the factorys for the rest of their needs. Being technological retard as a generic trait was something of Robotech and the Robotech RPG. The origin of the Zentradi like battle suit in Macross Plus was never revealed. There is a likely hood that the design was just as old as all the other Zentradi mecha but it just wasn't encounter by the UNS during the SW1. With 1000 Zentradi fleets flying around there is a chance that some will have different variants of mecha, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st Border Red Devil Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Being technological retard as a generic trait was something of Robotech and the Robotech RPG. Not quite true. The Tv series shows them (naturally) able to repair and maintain their equipment (from rifles all the way up to cruisers) and the old Malcontent Uprisings comics also had the Zentraedi being very technically capable as they built the Stinger Battlesuits. The RPG, however, does carry it a bit far by making them morons when it comes to technology, which is ridiculous as they wouldn't even be able to maintain their small arms and/or mecha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight26 Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 The whole not being able to maintain their gear thing is just stupid. Even if the their ships are in some way biological you still need at least technicians to do the day to day maintenance. Now maybe the frontline Zent grunt was not built to be too technically compitent, but then there are mutliple zent classes so their had to be technicians and engineers just to keep the ships and equipment running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nied Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 To answer some of your questions: All of the Zentradi equipment (the plural for Zentradi is Zentradi) was originally designed and built by the Protoculture. The Protoculture never taught the Zentradi how to repair their equipment as a fail safe against rebellion (they also apparently kept strict control on the supply of reaction weapons for the same reason). I never really got the impression that the Zentradi were able to repair their ships until after the conclusion of SW1. Britai's bridge stayed wrecked until after the end of SW1. I always thought that most of the forces fighting in Kamjin's insurgency defected back to him after living amongst humans. It's not hard to imagine that quite a few of them received technical training that allowed them to get that Gunboat running again. The battle suits in M+ are of unknown providence (my theory is that they're Supervision Army), but there are several new Zentradi designs that show up in the VF-X games. The compendium lists several incidents where Zentradi living on Earth defect or go rouge, it's not hard to imagine some of them making it to one of the 1,000s of fleets out in space and teaching their compatriots technical skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nied Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 The whole not being able to maintain their gear thing is just stupid. Even if the their ships are in some way biological you still need at least technicians to do the day to day maintenance. Now maybe the frontline Zent grunt was not built to be too technically compitent, but then there are mutliple zent classes so their had to be technicians and engineers just to keep the ships and equipment running. I'm willing to bet that as originally designed the Zentradi would return to a Protoculture base for regular maintenance. After the Protoculture went extinct I could see the Zentradi simply ditching old ships after they'd need too much maintenance and replacing it with a brand new one from a factory satellite. That would mean most of the Zentradi ships that we see aren't operating at full capacity, but then we see Britai's impeccably maintained starship totally pwn the flotilla guarding the factory satellite so that seems to jibe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr March Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 I agree with Nied's evaluation. It seems to make the most sense given the context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zinjo Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 There is also the aspect that the Zents were bred for war and fighting. Why waste the material on maintenance staff where repair facilities (possibly like Bodolza'a base) were available. As already stated, they probably just scuttled a broken ship and the crew were re-deployed among other ships to continue the fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight26 Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 (edited) But there is still daily maintenance that needs to be done on any large ship and or weapon system. Let's face it a ship needs an engineering crew to keep the engines running if nothign else. Maybe it's just a lack of technician class zentraedi that kept things from getting repaired quickly on zentraedi ships. i.e. there were so few technician class that they were always down in engineering just keeping the ship flying and couldn't be bothered to make minor repairs, like those needed on Breetai's bridge. Which also jibes with Nied's theory, as the SA would have been the ones to make major repairs, i.e. downtime in the shipyards. Edited November 9, 2006 by Knight26 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nied Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 If there is any routine maintenence I'd imagine it would be done with LRUs and a really good diagnostic computer, something similar to how the Saab Grippen handles things. The computer tells some Zentradi grunt, "box X needs to be replaced" and he goes down to the sotrage deck and gets the required box and puts it where the computer tells him to. He'd never need to know how the system worked or why it worked just that the computer told him to put a new box in the hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 Not quite true. The Tv series shows them (naturally) able to repair and maintain their equipment (from rifles all the way up to cruisers) and the old Malcontent Uprisings comics also had the Zentraedi being very technically capable as they built the Stinger Battlesuits. The post-war portion of the series also shows Zentradi employed in the manufacture of technology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retracting Head Ter Ter Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 The best clue to them not being able to fix things is still Britai's broken bridge glass panel. If they can't replace a damn glass panel.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sketchley Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 Maybe they just didn't have any spare glass panel remaining? It could also be that the designers didn't expect an enemy to penetrate right into the command bubble of the command center (and still have the ship, well, operate. Command center attacks usually mean the end of a ship.) I like the arguement of 'place box A into slot 1'. It makes a lot of sense, explains a lot of things (the general state of disrepair evident in the ships - leaky water pipes being harder to replace, etc..) We must keep in mind, above all else, that the Zentraedi are warriors above everything else. I bet they have extensive training in building things like foxholes and ground fortifications, and setting up radios, etc., too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugimon Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 this aspect of the show always struck me as silly... people in the military spend a great deal of time doing upkeep and maintanence. a military force that has to carry extra weapons or leave the front line to restock instead of maintaining what they have is just inefficient and vulnerable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st Border Red Devil Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 The best clue to them not being able to fix things is still Britai's broken bridge glass panel. If they can't replace a damn glass panel.... But we have visual and audio cues, at least in Robotech, that say otherwise. Also just because they can fix a fusion reactor does not mean they could design a whole new system that wasn't based on their own nor could they necessarily refine whatever fuels were necessary (deuterium perhaps?) if they ran out of stocks. The reactor officers on a nuke sub may know a great deal about their systems, but that does not translate into them being nuclear physicists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nied Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 But we have visual and audio cues, at least in Robotech, that say otherwise. Also just because they can fix a fusion reactor does not mean they could design a whole new system that wasn't based on their own nor could they necessarily refine whatever fuels were necessary (deuterium perhaps?) if they ran out of stocks. The reactor officers on a nuke sub may know a great deal about their systems, but that does not translate into them being nuclear physicists. All of those examples are from after SW1 and all of them are likely examples of Zentradi trained in repair by humanity before joining Kamjin's insurgency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mephistopheles Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 All of those examples are from after SW1 and all of them are likely examples of Zentradi trained in repair by humanity before joining Kamjin's insurgency. I was going to mention that. All the repairs took place a while after the integration of Zentradi. Regardless, you see strong evidence before episode 27 that the Zentradi did not repair their equipment. Breetai's bridge remains damaged throughout most of the series. I don't think that the Zentradi were not capable of knowing how to repair things it was just that they never trained anyone to be a dedicated engineer or mechanic. That lack of training would ultimately be their downfall. I would imagine that the Zentradi were using some beat up equipment and were almost on their last leg when they fought Earth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-ZeroOne Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 That lack of training would ultimately be their downfall. I would imagine that the Zentradi were using some beat up equipment and were almost on their last leg when they fought Earth. So what you're saying is, it should be Mr. Fixit we should all be buying 1/6 scale china dress models of...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mephistopheles Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 I don't understand your reference. Are you referring to the Minmay dolls in the series or that resin china dress Minmay doll somebody made on the forums? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st Border Red Devil Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 All of those examples are from after SW1 and all of them are likely examples of Zentradi trained in repair by humanity before joining Kamjin's insurgency. Then what about the Zentraedi-sized mecha repair toolkits we see? I doubt very highly that the UN Spacy (or UEF in Robotech) would teach the Zentraedi to repair weapon systems if they had no native talent beforehand. Thats simply asking to get screwed by your erstwhile allies later on down the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 Then what about the Zentraedi-sized mecha repair toolkits we see? I doubt very highly that the UN Spacy (or UEF in Robotech) would teach the Zentraedi to repair weapon systems if they had no native talent beforehand. Thats simply asking to get screwed by your erstwhile allies later on down the line. They had them employed in the manufacturing sector. You kinda NEED tools to do manufacturing work. Besides, they wanted to teach them to be people, not to make them slave warriors for a neo-protoculture empire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nied Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 They had them employed in the manufacturing sector. You kinda NEED tools to do manufacturing work. Besides, they wanted to teach them to be people, not to make them slave warriors for a neo-protoculture empire. Not only that but most of Earth's defense fleet was made up of Zentradi vessels. While it's likely that a lot of equipment was made to be serviced by micron (or micronian in Robotech) personnel, humans weren't in good supply after the war and it's likely Zentradi personnel in the UN Spacy were issued repair kits. Those same kits could have easily made it into Kamjin's possession either through theft or defection of personnel (likely both). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sketchley Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 Enemies using UN Spacy equipment appears to be de rigeur in Macross. Macross 7 has the Varuta, VF-X and VF-X2 have enemies using UNS ships and VFs, Macross Plus has the stolen Ghost X-9 and SDF-1... I guess this is one thing that makes Macross II not Macross - enemies that do not using stolen UN Spacy equipment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrie addict Posted November 12, 2006 Author Share Posted November 12, 2006 ok...so basicly, what's the most logical solution is 1. Pre-SW1, The Zentradi just went back to their base and swith into new equipment (built by who?) 2. Post-SW1, Zentradi learned to built and repair stuff and could reuse and repair their old equipment 3. Post-SW1, new mecha for the Zentradi were probably upgraded by human cultured Zentradi ok, I got a new question about the Zentradi according to the TV show, if Zentrans and Meltrans were not to correlate between each other, how did Lord Bodolza gave orders to the Meltrans and how could they report back to him??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 ok...so basicly, what's the most logical solution is 1. Pre-SW1, The Zentradi just went back to their base and swith into new equipment (built by who?) Built by automated factories. Of course, the factories were in pretty bad shape as well, but... ok, I got a new question about the Zentradi according to the TV show, if Zentrans and Meltrans were not to correlate between each other, how did Lord Bodolza gave orders to the Meltrans and how could they report back to him??? Britai did too. Also note that Millia was well-known among the males of the fleet. What's ALSO notable is that all the illustrated cross-gender communication was via radio or TV. It's possible that the restrictions only covered direct face-to-face communication, or that they were relaxed for higher-ranking zentradi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zinjo Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 ok, I got a new question about the Zentradi according to the TV show, if Zentrans and Meltrans were not to correlate between each other, how did Lord Bodolza gave orders to the Meltrans and how could they report back to him??? They didn't. Prior to the destruction of Bodolza, the Meltrans and Zentran Zentreadi had separate fleets and did not serve aboard the same ships. They worked together but never spent any recreation time together, lived with each other or even touched one another. As far the the Zentrans were concerned the Meltrandi were nothing more than males with fat chests and to the Meltrani the Zentrans were nothing more than annoying flat chested females... Essentially both sides were as innocent as children with respect to sexuality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali Sama Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Being unable to repair their own technology was more of a Robotech thing, otherwise Kamjin would never have gotten that gunship off of the ground, they probably didn't know all the intricacy of repair and retrofit but could still do some stuff but for the major stuff relied heavily on the factory satellites. they had deserters who had learned things from the human population. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DestroidDefender Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 Zentradi living on Earth defect or go rouge... How exactly did they go rouge? Did they start putting it on your checks or paint themselves red all over? Seriously, this is the most annoying spelling error. It's Rogue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 How exactly did they go rouge? Did they start putting it on your checks or paint themselves red all over? That WOULD explain some of the odd skin colorations... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 sigh No offense but topics like this really bug me. They just show how much misinformation is out there. Yes Zentraedi had technicians. No army or navy is without them. Who do you think shrunk the spies? A Technician. Who operates the sensors and communications equipment. Who sees that rutine maintenace is done. Technicians. Your typical Battle Pod Pilot is not going to be trained in how to do those things. They may make up the majority of the Zentraedi forces but they're not trained in every single possible thing. So why wasn't the command bubble replaced? Gee maybe it wasn't in stock? And the leaky pipes? Not on the priority list. Probably not in stock either. So why not make new ones? That's not there job. They put the parts in but they don't make them. That's what the factory satellites were for. Think about it. Have any of you tuned up your car or changed the oil? I have. And while I can change the spark plugs and replace the oil and filter, I don't know how to make a sparke plug or manfacture oil. I just go buy new ones. I can also change windows but I'm not going to try to make the window from scratch. The same goes for plumbing. I buy the parts I need. I don't make them myself. The same goes for the Zentraedi techs. Besides even if all the technician is trained to do is look at a computer and replace indicated parts. It still takes training to do that. It does not meen they need to know how to manufacure the parts. Just what they do, where they go, and how to install them. As for the different sexes knowing and working together, of course they did. Watch the series. The spies knew of Millia's reputation. And they were transported back to earth on a purple "female" ship crewed by men that was under whatshername's command. So yes they knew of each other and fought along side together. They just weren't on the same ships together. And they didn't have any reason to talk to each other other than to give and receive orders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berttt Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 (edited) sigh No offense but topics like this really bug me. They just show how much misinformation is out there. Yes Zentraedi had technicians. No army or navy is without them. Who do you think shrunk the spies? A Technician. Who operates the sensors and communications equipment. Who sees that rutine maintenace is done. Technicians. Your typical Battle Pod Pilot is not going to be trained in how to do those things. They may make up the majority of the Zentraedi forces but they're not trained in every single possible thing. So why wasn't the command bubble replaced? Gee maybe it wasn't in stock? And the leaky pipes? Not on the priority list. Probably not in stock either. So why not make new ones? That's not there job. They put the parts in but they don't make them. That's what the factory satellites were for. Think about it. Have any of you tuned up your car or changed the oil? I have. And while I can change the spark plugs and replace the oil and filter, I don't know how to make a sparke plug or manfacture oil. I just go buy new ones. I can also change windows but I'm not going to try to make the window from scratch. The same goes for plumbing. I buy the parts I need. I don't make them myself. The same goes for the Zentraedi techs. Besides even if all the technician is trained to do is look at a computer and replace indicated parts. It still takes training to do that. It does not meen they need to know how to manufacure the parts. Just what they do, where they go, and how to install them. As for the different sexes knowing and working together, of course they did. Watch the series. The spies knew of Millia's reputation. And they were transported back to earth on a purple "female" ship crewed by men that was under whatshername's command. So yes they knew of each other and fought along side together. They just weren't on the same ships together. And they didn't have any reason to talk to each other other than to give and receive orders. I can't tell you how glad I am to see this post. Thankyou, now I know there is at least one other rational MW fan out there. Cheers and Beers Berttt Edited November 21, 2006 by Berttt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grebo guru Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 There's also the fact that the automated Factory Satellites which circuit the galaxy tend to the manufacture, upkeep, repair, and replacement of Zentradi equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sketchley Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Psst Grebo, that's what Nathan said - though not upkeep. That'd require constant attention, and is the role of the heretofore unseen 'technician class'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 (edited) I can't tell you how glad I am to see this post. Thankyou, now I know there is at least one other rational MW fan out there. Cheers and Beers Berttt You're very welcome and thanks. You just made my day. It is nice knowing there's other rational fans out there. Thanks All. Edited November 22, 2006 by nathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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