Aircraft Super Thread Mk.VII

[wsna]

10 hours ago, Thom said:

And does dogfighting count anymore when targeting and missiles can hit before you even reach visual range? I'm a bit of a Romantic, in that I like the thought of a 'fighter' being able to fight, but more of the tech is geared to avoid that.

It seems a bit funny...a lot of war/conflict sequences (extremely over-simplified) seems to be this hybrid idea on how waring parties fight, say in WW1 or earlier...(and I'm sure Tora! Tora! Tora! or something even older) drives some of our narrative on how we thinks a Fighter plane/foot soldier, ship or whatever would fight in the here and now. I remember seeing the promo or propaganda on how the RAH-66 Comanche would redefine the battlespace of the future...except for what has been happening in the Russo-Ukraine war (I'm sure if you are a gunship pilot, you might have already have done a serious re-think about your job).

I don't have the knowledge base to clearly articulate what I am trying to get at here...if you watch enough documentaries or see enough stories on how fighter planes (such as the F-4) did not need guns be/c AAMs and radar will solve all....

...until it didn't.  And then we come to 4th gen fighters - which had guns. The tech of radar and AAMs got better...well, most of the time anyways.

So is the idea of getting into a furball past its expiration date?

[Graham]

I think that no matter how good BRV AAM missiles get, there will still always be a need for dogfighting capability, due to rules of engagement limitations.

Just because you have the capability to shoot someting down at BRV range, doesn't necessarily mean the politicians in charge are always going to allow it and there may be cases where visual ID is required, so a robust WVR / dogfighting capability may still be needed. 

Even if it's only maybe needed 1 time out of 100, I feel it's still better to keep guns and the capability to dogfight.

[Thom]

I can see the situation where (hopefully never) WWIII breaks out and after the first several battles most of the 6th/5th generation fighters have been blown to crap and, if it never goes nuclear, the war ends with air battles being waged with 80s/90s' era airframes because they are more numerous and easier/cheaper to repair and keep fighting.

[Sildani]

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."