HG and Robotech Debates

[Dynaman]

no matter how much you hate it, it still made $836 million international box office gross.

And we complain about the robotech wallet being a ripoff...

[terry the lone wolf]

Granted, they would have a hard time marketing it as a Robotech movie if they changed the name to something else... but as we've all seen, the only people you market Robotech stuff to and expect them to care is Robotech fans. It's supposed to be a reimagining anyway, so giving it a less corny title would probably do a lot for those whose unenviable job is to promote that turd... especially by separating it from Robotech's dire reputation.

Oh, it's pretty much a given that EDF isn't Robotech in disguise... it's just that EDF's plot appears to have some superficial similarities to Robotech's teaspoon-shallow overarching story. Coincidence... not proof of a link. It's probably safer to assume they'd think of the pool cleaning apparatus before the TV series if you asked if they'd heard of Robotech[

Oh good grief... do you EVER read other people's posts before you reply to them?

It should be fairly clear from my post that I'm saying there's no chance in hell that Earth Defense Force "might be" Robotech in disguise... seeing as I said pretty much exactly that in the very first sentence of the post you quoted.

You did say that Warner Bros. would have to part company with name that represents 25 years of incompetence. Isn't that what EDF is all about?

Edited January 18, 2011 by terry the lone wolf

[HappyPenguins]

And we complain about the robotech wallet being a ripoff...

The general audience are morons, that says it all

[Jasonc]

You did say that Warner Bros. would have to part company with name that represents 25 years of incompetence. Isn't that what EDF is all about?

No, it's not. The EDF movie is no indication that it's Robotech. Here's why I believe EDF isn't Robotech, and why they'd use the Robotech name and not some alternate (if the movie was gonna be made).

For one, EDF, while similar in that it deals with alien invasion on earth and humans fight back, if WB wanted to make Robotech into EDF, why would they spend money on the rights to Robotech? Why waste money on licensing a name that they aren't going to use? They certainly didn't need to buy the rights of Robotech to make this EDF. It'd be like buying a vintage toy, then throwing it out because you wanted to make a toy that has some similarities, but is nothing like the original. Just doesn't make too much sense.

Secondly, why would WB buy the name? Yeah, perhaps they want to keep the franchise from anyone else getting their hands on it, but then, that would mean that Roboteh movie will sit on the shelf for a looooonnnnngggg time. If they're going to make Robotech, they might as well use it, especially since various websites have mentioned that WB acquired the rights to the Robotech name.

I just don't see EDF as being Robotech. Now, I know Robotech fans wanna make the connection, but seriously, that would be more of a detriment to the Robotech franchise, to have it remarketed as a different title, and a full reboot with little connection to the original. I assume that any type of sci-fi movie with aliens is gonna be linked to Robotech by the fans. They have no news of anything from WB (face it, HG just isn't involved in the LAM) and they should expect that. However, this, trying to connect the dots, is going to go on and on until the news comes out on the actual title being made or not.

[anime52k8]

Guys, really. The reason we know EDF has nothing to do with robotech is that EDF actually stands a chance of getting made.

[Seto Kaiba]

You did say that Warner Bros. would have to part company with name that represents 25 years of incompetence. Isn't that what EDF is all about?

I didn't say they would have to... I said if they would probably do it if they wanted the target audience (i.e. people who aren't Robotech fans) to take the movie seriously.

Anyone with an internet connection could look Robotech up on Wikipedia and easily learn about the legacy of failure and incompetence it drags around in its wake like a bit of bog roll stuck to its shoe. If your target audience decides to skip the flick because it's based on a downright camp-tastic series that spent the last 25 years on a sequence of attempts to make itself popular and/or relevant that all ended in embarrassing failures, then you're not doing a very good job marketing it, are you?

Earth Defense Force seems to be nothing more than an "original" movie with a thoroughly unoriginal premise. Aliens attack Earth, they ruin our sh*t, and then humanity builds up a force to fight back the next time they show up. If it were the Robotech live action movie in disguise, you can bet Harmony Gold wouldn't be keeping quiet about it. They'd be tossing each other off with glee and touting the chance that someone with actual talent (however minimal) is involved with the project as proof that Warner is actually taking Robotech to be some kind of potential blockbuster.

In short, even putting aside things like common sense and the news articles about Raimi's project that make it painfully obvious Earth Defense Force isn't Robotech, the simple lack of "See, we're actually getting something done for once!" from Harmony Gold is ironclad proof that Earth Defense Force has nothing whatsoever to do with Robotech.

[Beltane70]

Wasn't there an XBox game called Earth Defense Force?

[Jasonc]

Wasn't there an XBox game called Earth Defense Force?

You are correct, there was a game called EDF. Even though they are denying that this EDF movie is based off the game, I think it is, and is probably more of what it's going to be about than Robotech.

[taksraven]

If EDF was called UNIT I would go to see it..... ;)

[Zor Primus]

Feel pity my friends that all that they have going for them right now is the rumor/belief/hope/conspiracy that EDF is a RTLAM. Since nothing else is going on what else could there be. I had my share of hope when rt.com first came online that it was the beginning of something great for fans after so many years outside of the picture. That fire died to an ember around 2004'ish...then when Shadow Chronicles was announced and later released my disappointed only increased and faith in the future of my favorite show as a kid was dashed away.

I saw on FB that Tommy and Kevin were going to have some announcement at a show in San Fran...wonder what that could have been. Probably more of the same "stringing the audience along" speak.

[Shaorin]

i can most deeply emphasize with what RT fandom must surely be going through right now...

still, as a modern, sophisticated MACROSS fan with full access to the net and all of the advantages therein,

i for one, am sure mighty thankful to be largely free of HG and their ROBOTECH oriented incompetence.

i mean, in my dark ages of early MACROSS fandom, (1990's) i would have died of pleasure convulsions

to have something like the TOYNAMI MPC VF-1 series. hell, i was highly keen about them when they first came to market

in the early 2000s. i had no net connection back then, aside from getting to infrequently stay at my grandma's

and use her connection. even then, i found the BANDAI VF HCMs to be the pinnacle of VF scale model design,

the TOYNAMI MPCs, being somewhat loosely based upon them, the only thing that really came close at the time.

despite the early enthusiasm, i had somehow ended up at the time with a YAMATO 1/60 VF-1A DYRL Hik. instead

of any of the VF-1 MPCs despite the fact that i was MOST unhappy with it's PARTS-FORMING design.

what can i say? i was a fan of VERY LITTLE means at the time, rather used to the suffering

of an SDF MACROSS fan throughout the GUNDAM-centric nineties, and therefore quite willing

to gratefully and enthusiastically take what i could get...

fortunately, that travesty of design was soon to be replaced with a Yammie 1/48 VF-1S Focker a couple years later.

the 1/48 became my VF standard bearer until 2008ish...

today, after "Making Do" for so very long, i am most happy to finally have the means (no thanks to HG and RT)

to get EXACTLY the MACROSS items i have wanted for a VERY LONG TIME now,

and, by FEB. of this year, i plan to have my personal VF-1 collection completed,

encompassing what i feel to be the best of the 20th century, as well as the 21st to date;

* the YAMATO 1/60v.II VF-1J Hik. T.V. which i have had for a couple years now.

* the 1986 BANDAI HCM of the same, which i'll be buying this week.

* the 1983 IMAI 1/72 variable model kit of the same, which i plan to obtain in FEBRUARY.

with this foundation complete, i intend to start making up for lost time as a MACROSS fan

by pursuing some of the artbooks and technical materials, hopefully completing a tidy little

overall collection within a couple years or so.

while i'm starting to feel a little spoiled and reckless, i know that i'll be deeply appreciating for life

any and all of the MACROSS collectables i have yet gotten, and others that i might have the opportunity of owning

in the future, as i have NEVER ONCE forgotten the deep starving desire i was forced to endure during the lion's share of my time as a MACROSS fan...

Edited January 19, 2011 by Shaorin

[TehPW]

Next time you direct me to that shithole of a website to listen to some really insane nerd ramblings, you can come here and clean up the vomit yerself. :P

TU for linkie. Now i will see if i can cause another train wreck elsewhere...

http://flare.solareclipse.net/cgi2/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/8/1448.html?

[BeyondTheGrave]

Since there are no new info on the RTLAM, for RT fans anything that has nothing to do with Robotech can be a source of speculation.

Apparently Argentina is doing something. What I don't know i don't speak Spanish.

Link

[azrael]

Apparently Argentina is doing something. What I don't know i don't speak Spanish.

Link

According the comments, apparently someone in Argentina is doing a fan-film, with HG's blessing...Good for them...if you can call a fan-film good for RT fandom. Guess this is all they have to show for themselves, a poorly-made, decent-selling DVD which produced nothing afterwards and a fan-film.

[BeyondTheGrave]

The only problem question I have is will hg decide to take credit for it.

Edited January 19, 2011 by BeyondTheGrave

[Keith]

Secondly, why would WB buy the name?

Business is a funny thing. What may seem like a good idea with Voltron/Akira/Thundercats projects on the horizon, quickly becomes a detriment when everyone else starts bailing out. No doubt they'd purchase the license with a full intent to use it. But as common sense sets in, distancing yourself from an almost sure fire bomb is well worth the initial money lost. It comes down to a matter of cutting an initial loss, or following it through to a full blown loss. G.I. Joe was enough to make any studio think twice about the marketability of 80's cartoon franchises.

[HappyPenguins]

The only problem question I have is will hg decide to take credit for it.

lol well naturally, asking them not to take credit for the work of someone else? Pfftt, might as well ask them not to breathe.

[terry the lone wolf]

I didn't say they would have to... I said if they would probably do it if they wanted the target audience (i.e. people who aren't Robotech fans) to take the movie seriously.

Anyone with an internet connection could look Robotech up on Wikipedia and easily learn about the legacy of failure and incompetence it drags around in its wake like a bit of bog roll stuck to its shoe. If your target audience decides to skip the flick because it's based on a downright camp-tastic series that spent the last 25 years on a sequence of attempts to make itself popular and/or relevant that all ended in embarrassing failures, then you're not doing a very good job marketing it, are you?

Earth Defense Force seems to be nothing more than an "original" movie with a thoroughly unoriginal premise. Aliens attack Earth, they ruin our sh*t, and then humanity builds up a force to fight back the next time they show up. If it were the Robotech live action movie in disguise, you can bet Harmony Gold wouldn't be keeping quiet about it. They'd be tossing each other off with glee and touting the chance that someone with actual talent (however minimal) is involved with the project as proof that Warner is actually taking Robotech to be some kind of potential blockbuster.

In short, even putting aside things like common sense and the news articles about Raimi's project that make it painfully obvious Earth Defense Force isn't Robotech, the simple lack of "See, we're actually getting something done for once!" from Harmony Gold is ironclad proof that Earth Defense Force has nothing whatsoever to do with Robotech.

On the flip side, they're not denying it either. McKeever & the Yune bros. post on RT.com and could've shot down the rumor. There was a thread started about MAXIM model Sarah Mulch being in the RTLA but that was locked. I don't think EDF is RT but the HG guys should've cleared this up long ago.

[Gubaba]

In other news, Doug Bendo has finally removed the illegally-uploaded Macross Frontier songs from his podcast.

And while it's sad to note that it took a certain amount of pressure to get him to act ethically and renounce theft, it's also heartening that he finally did the right thing.

[Jasonc]

On the flip side, they're not denying it either. McKeever & the Yune bros. post on RT.com and could've shot down the rumor. There was a thread started about MAXIM model Sarah Mulch being in the RTLA but that was locked. I don't think EDF is RT but the HG guys should've cleared this up long ago.

But that's their M.O. They can't clear their own bowels, how do you expect to have them clear rumors one way or another? It's like at a panel last year, when they did their "convention tour". They listed all the people "working" on the LAM. They still had Lawrence Kasdan working on the product, as well as every other writer. Even after it's been noted and on record that he wrote for the picture, and no longer is. They like to confuse the not-so informed, to get all the accolades and praise they can, while at the same time, destroying their credibility to tell the truth. I guess their goal is, the more confused one is about the projects they're doing, the better they can look and the more fascinated you'll become when and if they actually do something. In my opinion, omitting the truth is just as much a lie as telling one. Then again, they may just not know, since HG has nothing to do with what WB is doing. In that case, they'd have to fess up that they really have no part in the LAM, another thing they've been real key at trying to promote that isn't true.

[Einherjar]

According the comments, apparently someone in Argentina is doing a fan-film, with HG's blessing...Good for them...if you can call a fan-film good for RT fandom. Guess this is all they have to show for themselves, a poorly-made, decent-selling DVD which produced nothing afterwards and a fan-film.

Like other fan works before it, I think HG can still shut this down if they want to a couple of months down the line if something about it doesn't appeal to them or their legal team.

Edited January 19, 2011 by Einherjar

[taksraven]

In other news, Doug Bendo has finally removed the illegally-uploaded Macross Frontier songs from his podcast.

And while it's sad to note that it took a certain amount of pressure to get him to act ethically and renounce theft, it's also heartening that he finally did the right thing.

He's still an Allan Funt though, isn't he??

[Wanzerfan]

That picture says more than words ever could about why I don't like Spider-Man. He's not a detective. He's not a guardian of the Earth. He's not even king of the oceans. He's just Captain Emo. As a kid, I liked X-Men and I didn't see what was so special about him.

Spider-Man was the first in the line of Marvel's "Flawed Heroes". He actually tried to join the Fantasic Four in order to help pay the rent, but sadly, the FF was a non-profit organization.

No worries, though. He joined a version that had Wolverine, Ghost Rider, and I think what was either the adult version of The Incredible Hulk or the Mr. Fixit version (it's been so long ago I can't remember which one).

I see Doug Bend-over was wise enough to avoid a lawsuit; probably the first good thing he did that I know of. The son of a bitch even tried flaming one of my threads over at Robotech.com (I think it was the civil debate over which military had the better mecha evolution, Macross or RDF/REF).

[Gubaba]

He's still an Allan Funt though, isn't he??

In that he tries to embarrass people by talking about them? Yeah, I'm sure he is.

But he can't "fix" his download numbers anymore (at least, not by coasting by on Frontier songs), and it's pretty clear that his ACTUAL popularity is much, much lower than he's claiming. It's turned into quite a little argument on RobotechX, with only Memo and Mav defending Doug. Mav has been coming up with some pretty loopy theories to account for the high download count for the Frontier songs, the current one being I organized a group of Macross fans to download all the Frontier songs again and again in order to raise their popularity.

And when I denied it, Mav said I was "admitting guilt."

So yeah...Mav makes no sense.

I just can't figure out why he's so hell-bent on defending Doug. Less than a year ago, he was saying that Doug wasn't even a Robotech fan, and was just in it for himself. I wonder what changed?

In related news, my petition to get me on Dougbendo's show has increased by one. Four votes for...only 96 to go. Out of 6000 lessoners, that's just a drop in the bucket, right?

http://www.robotechx.com/forums/51-cannon-fodder/14331-bendo-vs-gubaba-the-petition-.html

[Beltane70]

Think I'll get any hate mail from Mav for commenting on this?

http://www.screenjunkies.com/movies/movie-lists/10-best-japanese-animated-movies/

Really? Shadow Chronicle is one of the 10 best Japanese animated movies? Too bad it fails on so many accounts, especially the fact that it's not even animated in Japan.

[anime52k8]

Really? Shadow Chronicle is one of the 10 best Japanese animated movies? Too bad it fails on so many accounts, especially the fact that it's not even animated in Japan.

Whoever wrote that knows jack shit about Japanese animated movies.

Edited January 22, 2011 by anime52k8

[TehPW]

it's not even worth creating an account for commenting, its so innane. Ninja Scroll was into very cool, but it was a One-shot OVA format, not a movie... somebody just told a tool, write up something & post... idiot probably saw the TV interview that was aired metioning Robotech, why it was even mentioned...

[Einherjar]

Think I'll get any hate mail from Mav for commenting on this?

http://www.screenjunkies.com/movies/movie-lists/10-best-japanese-animated-movies/

Really? Shadow Chronicle is one of the 10 best Japanese animated movies? Too bad it fails on so many accounts, especially the fact that it's not even animated in Japan.

It's an incomplete movie/story left hanging like the original too.

[Jasonc]

It seems like it was written by someone who just did an internet search for some random "anime" and just put some sort of wikipedia definition of the titles up in some ill-conceived list. Oh well, not like it's really gonna boost anything robotech related.

And Gubaba, I find it funny that they'd start throwing out way off-based theories. Usually the simplest, most logical reason is the best, and trying to come up with theories to validate a lost argument just looks bad on their part.

[Seto Kaiba]

Business is a funny thing. [...] No doubt they'd purchase the license with a full intent to use it. But as common sense sets in, distancing yourself from an almost sure fire bomb is well worth the initial money lost. It comes down to a matter of cutting an initial loss, or following it through to a full blown loss.[...]

Oh, naturally... but I like to think of it as the good people at Warner Bros doing us all a solid by indirectly calling a halt to Harmony Gold's plans for another pathetic direct-to-video Robotech movie. By purchasing the rights for a live action Robotech movie, no doubt for a pittance, they've prevented Tommy Yune from perpetrating another two hours of his revolting Robotech II: the Sentinels fan-fiction on the world. Hell, in this scenario the only ones who don't come out ahead are the Robotech fans who've got their heads stuck up their asses... also known as Tommy's suck-up brigade. Aside from those nuts, everybody wins... Robotech fans don't have to suffer through it, and Macross fans don't have to suffer the humiliation of being associated with it, however distantly.

On the flip side, they're not denying it either.

Oh yes, because a failure to explicitly deny an obviously ridiculous conspiracy theory validates it... right?

To be honest, some days I'm not sure if you're honest when you say things like this or if you're trying to troll us and just not doing a very good job.

McKeever & the Yune bros. post on RT.com and could've shot down the rumor. There was a thread started about MAXIM model Sarah Mulch being in the RTLA but that was locked.

Now, I'm going to do something unforgivable here... I'm going to bust out the most powerful weapon anyone can bring to bear against a statement like this: context.

Yes, the idiot moderators at Robotech.com did lock the thread about MAXIM model Sarah Mulch being in the RT live action movie... but did you bother to note WHY they locked it? I'll give you a hint, it wasn't because it was some crazy fanboy theory. It was locked because it was a redundant thread. They already have a dedicated thread for casting speculation. They've let crazy fan theory threads run for ages without locking them, and this Earth Defense Force rubbish is no different. It's not a redundant thread, and it's HG volunteer mods stirring up hype with lies to keep the fans from slipping into a "bugger-all's happening" coma.

The son of a bitch even tried flaming one of my threads over at Robotech.com (I think it was the civil debate over which military had the better mecha evolution, Macross or RDF/REF).

Wanz, calling that thread a debate of any kind is giving it far more credit than it deserves. Hell, that happened long before Tommy noticed that Robotech's technological continuity is completely broken and that the mecha get progressively less capable with each passing generation. Prior to the "retcons" he imposed to try and impose a sense of technological advancement (rather than deterioration) on the timeline, I probably wouldn't have been at all surprised if, two or three more alien invasions down the road, the Earth forces were left to fight off a new alien invasion with the REF's new state-of-the-art weapons... heavy rocks and harsh language.

[Jasonc]

Wanz, calling that thread a debate of any kind is giving it far more credit than it deserves. Hell, that happened long before Tommy noticed that Robotech's technological continuity is completely broken and that the mecha get progressively less capable with each passing generation. Prior to the "retcons" he imposed to try and impose a sense of technological advancement (rather than deterioration) on the timeline, I probably wouldn't have been at all surprised if, two or three more alien invasions down the road, the Earth forces were left to fight off a new alien invasion with the REF's new state-of-the-art weapons... heavy rocks and harsh language.

You forgot the secret chunky butts and big boob enhanced weapon. It runs off of protoculture and can be used to shield the Haydonite attacks.

[Seto Kaiba]

You forgot the secret chunky butts and big boob enhanced weapon. It runs off of protoculture and can be used to shield the Haydonite attacks.

But... but... that's not Tommy's doing! You heard what he said, it's those horny Korean animators who made it that way!

Now, the subject of Robotech's technological progression and the steadily deteriorating capabilities of the Earth forces mecha is something I've been badgered about a lot lately. The way so many Robotech fans out there will never take a straight answer when there's a baseless theory to be had never ceases to amaze and disappoint me. It's oddly impressive the way veteran Robotech fans have come up with so many ways to justify selectively throwing out any canon source that's inconvenient to whatever theory they've come up with. Really, I've half a mind to say the majority of Robotech fans aren't really Robotech fans at all... but rather, are Robotech fan fiction fans.

(Of course, that's kind of pushing it... since Robotech itself could easily be called Carl Macek's post-facto attempt at pseudo-official Macross fan-fiction)

Edited January 22, 2011 by Seto Kaiba

[Jasonc]

But... but... that's not Tommy's doing! You heard what he said, it's those horny Korean animators who made it that way!

Now, the subject of Robotech's technological progression and the steadily deteriorating capabilities of the Earth forces mecha is something I've been badgered about a lot lately. The way so many Robotech fans out there will never take a straight answer when there's a baseless theory to be had never ceases to amaze and disappoint me. It's oddly impressive the way veteran Robotech fans have come up with so many ways to justify selectively throwing out any canon source that's inconvenient to whatever theory they've come up with. Really, I've half a mind to say the majority of Robotech fans aren't really Robotech fans at all... but rather, are Robotech fan fiction fans.

(Of course, that's kind of pushing it... since Robotech itself could easily be called Carl Macek's post-facto attempt at pseudo-official Macross fan-fiction)

Ahhh, but you know, Tommy does a lot of retcons, so why not retcon the facts? Also, while he'd rather put down a group of people based on their race, those first designs of Ariel are Tommy's, or more specifically, Studio Yune.

Like most series, fans are always gonna have their own ideas of how things work, how the story goes, and whatnot, especially when their isn't a lot of official data given. What's worse, is that Robotech has 3 sources that all conflict, that the fandom goes with. Some use the McKinney books, some the RPGs, some the t.v. series (as vague as that is). Most of the "official" facts from Robotech are usually not written, but spoken by the staff, mainly Tommy, and more times than not, it's a retcon of the official stuff, or still not enough info to hammer anything down. Because of that, what most fans use as proof, is all speculation at best. There is no one fanfic opinion that fits all, and I wouldn't expect there to be. Fandom is a tricky thing sometimes. There's that fine line between fans and the lunatic fringe. I don't need to explain it, cause there's a few in the rt community that give us prime examples of the difference almost everyday.

[Gubaba]

Think I'll get any hate mail from Mav for commenting on this?

http://www.screenjunkies.com/movies/movie-lists/10-best-japanese-animated-movies/

Really? Shadow Chronicle is one of the 10 best Japanese animated movies? Too bad it fails on so many accounts, especially the fact that it's not even animated in Japan.

*snicker*

*snort*

BWAH-HAH-HAH-HAH!!

That list is HYSTERICAL!! You might think that summarizing Akira by saying, "World War 2 transforms Japan with two nuclear explosions. This popular anime classic is set in postwar Japan" is a mere typo for "World War 3" (except there was only ONE explosion in Japan in Akira...and, as it turns out, it wasn't nuclear), but the description of Grave of the Fireflies, immediately following, compunds that error: "Just say no to war. Another postwar animated movie from Japan, "Grave of the Fireflies" comes with an underlying message that war is evil."

Clearly, we're reading the work of someone who never saw either Akira or Grave of the Fireflies.The description of Totoro is equally lame.

And then, there's the description of Shadow Chronicles: "This Japanese animated movie is based on the popular "Robotech" comic book series. An intergalactic war breaks out in 2044 as humans expand their empire beyond Earth and the Milky Way."

Based on the comic book series...? Does this guy have ANY idea what he's talking about?

No need to answer that, I already know the answer.

Edited January 23, 2011 by Gubaba

[Renato]

Sad thing is people get paid for that, right? I mean, that is an actual legit site, isn't it?

I'd like to make easy money like that.

Best films ever list:

2001 A Space Oyssey: Can David defeat the evil spaceship, "HAL 2000"? Find out in this exciting sci-fi adventure!

Back to the Future: Journey to the future as Marty McFry wakes up in the year 3000 and has to stop himself from being born. The timeless 1970s comedy classic, starring that kid from Growing Pains.

The Third Man: Follow Rosebud as he tries to find the whereabouts of the first and second men.

Spider-Man: When Bruce Wayne is bitten by a radioactive mutant, he gains super powers, and decides to live as a crimefighter by night, and a woman by day -- all the while under the watchful eye of the Evil Professor Xavier. Starring William Shatner.

Howzat? Do I got a job or wot?