District 9

[Ghost Train]

highlight them.

[Funkenstein]

District 9, to me , was a breath of fresh air. Between idiot GI Joes, Terminators and Bayformers, we get Star Trek and District 9 . And frankly, I just love how the movie mashes together different thematic concepts, in a gloriously violent spray of giblets.

[mantisfists]

highlight them.

Ah......so simple. Thanks, my man.

[EXO]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Custom-District-9-praw...id=p3286.c0.m14

[Mr March]

District 9 is still going strong at the Box Office.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/news/?id=2611&p=.htm

Last weekend's top-grossing movie, District 9, collected an estimated $18.9 million in second place, lifting its total to a strong $73.5 million in ten days. Showing traction, the picture was down 49 percent, which was a small decline for a genre that typically sees second weekend falls in the 50-70 percent range. Cloverfield and The Day the Earth Stood Still (2008), for instance, each crumbled 68 percent and had significantly lower totals at the same point.

[Mr March]

Again, Vic's done a bang-up job of stating his case.

You and I may not agree with his position, but you gotta respect that he argues his point well.

As far as I can tell, any criticism of merit has been overshadowed by grandstanding. For example:

much like how District 9 ended up being little more than a platform to wow audiences by blowing people up in super cool ways with super cool alien weapons

That isn't a "bang-up job stating one's case". That is hyperbole.

Billing District 9 as little more than a hollow SFX show is not only total fabrication, it also displays a complete absence of any "logical" opinion. Vic stretches his dislike so far as to paint District 9 a black when it's actually white. How is that any different from anime52k stretching his disagreement so far as to question Vic's enjoyment of life for disliking the movie? The answer is it's no different.

Like or dislike District 9, side with Vic or anime52k, but I'm not buying this spin on the debate.

[yellowlightman]

That isn't a "bang-up job stating one's case". That is hyperbole.

And this is the internet, who would have guessed there'd be hyperbole in arguments here?

[Vic Mancini]

As far as I can tell, any criticism of merit has been overshadowed by grandstanding. For example:

That's not hyperbole. I was being quite serious.

Also, that quote you pulled was not the only thing I said about the movie you know. I listed quite a few logical point about how ordinary I thought D-9 was without using what you are interpreting as hyperbole.

Edit/add:

hy⋅per⋅bo⋅le

  /haɪˈpɜrbəli/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [hahy-pur-buh-lee] Show IPA

Use hyperbole in a Sentence

–noun Rhetoric.

1. obvious and intentional exaggeration.

2. an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as “to wait an eternity.”

Edited August 25, 2009 by Vic Mancini

[Mog]

I was focusing primarily on Vic's 8/21 and 8/22 posts.

Instead of re-hashing a "This movie is utter shite" post, he at least elaborated a bit on why he disliked the film.

Attack the arguments, not the person. That's all.

In any case, I'm glad to see District 9's got some legs to her. As I've said a number of times in other posts, we really need more films that entertain our brains and aren't just simple eye-candy; a film where we can walk out of the theater, and it gets us going into in-depth discussions, topics, and conversations.

District 9 thankfully delivered on that front.

[HappyPenguins]

I am seeing it sometime this week, and I've heard there are shaky camera scenes

but on a scale of 1 to 10, how bad are those scenes? Are they cloverfield bad or not.

just wondering

[sucker4meltrans]

district 9 was brilliant.

so was the new star trek movie.

i can't even stand most new movies made in america.

[kaiotheforsaken]

I am seeing it sometime this week, and I've heard there are shaky camera scenes

but on a scale of 1 to 10, how bad are those scenes? Are they cloverfield bad or not.

just wondering

To be honest, the first time I saw it, I didn't even notice I was so engrossed in what was going on. Second time I paid attention and it's there, but I don't really find it bad at all. It really adds to the feeling of being right there in the action.

[EXO]

it's not as shakey as cloverfield. Its closer to "The Office" type of camera handheld.

Doesn't the main guy remind anyone of Murray from Flight Of the Conchords?

[Mr March]

Also, that quote you pulled was not the only thing I said about the movie you know. I listed quite a few logical point about how ordinary I thought D-9 was without using what you are interpreting as hyperbole.

Your later points are all irrelevant because you're affirming your original fallacy. In either case, I don't buy it.

I was focusing primarily on Vic's 8/21 and 8/22 posts.

Instead of re-hashing a "This movie is utter shite" post, he at least elaborated a bit on why he disliked the film.

Attack the arguments, not the person. That's all.

In any case, I'm glad to see District 9's got some legs to her. As I've said a number of times in other posts, we really need more films that entertain our brains and aren't just simple eye-candy; a film where we can walk out of the theater, and it gets us going into in-depth discussions, topics, and conversations.

District 9 thankfully delivered on that front.

All I'm saying is the arguments I see from both Vic and anime52k stem from erroneous assumptions on their face. Allow me to explain.

Vic's basic assumptions of District 9 are fallacious. The subsequent explanation he's given has followed from his fundamental misrepresentation of the film. In other words, the later points are all window dressing from a critic demanding we accept the "fact" there is no difference between District 9 and the most hollow SFX-driven action film. Just because there wasn't a personal attack, doesn't mean there isn't a fallacy. Don't let the appearance of "reasonableness" or board politics disguise what is actually being argued.

To address your other concern, why doesn't one argue Vic's later points, ignoring what he said earlier? I'm glad you asked Because the "later points" all come from one basic fallacy: that District 9 is supposedly a shallow SFX display. By Vic's own admission, he meant what he said and what's worse, he's ardently affirming his own fallacy. Thus, he wants to debate his later points even though his entire argument stems from the fundamental fabrication that District 9 is a hollow SFX show. But if one disagrees with the basic fallacy Vic has made, how can there be any fair debate if he won't even acknowledge he's committed a fallacy? The answer is there cannot be fair debate under those circumstance. Hence, there is no debate.

So what's the point of all this? Why, to point out why this whole charade is not a "reasonable, logical argument" as you posted and to point out why it's as much a fallacy as any other. Fallacies come in all shapes an sizes, not just personal attacks. Naturally, we're having a good discussion so I'd be thankful if you recognized that fallacy (or at least where I'm coming from), but we're all entitled to disagree.

Regardless, I too am very pleased District 9 is doing well, especially since it's a film that justly deserves it. When my friends and I walked out of the theatre, we couldn't stop talking about all the issues explored in the film.

Edited August 25, 2009 by Mr March

[kaiotheforsaken]

Not that I that I don't agree with Mr. March but reading that post I can't help but think of this

[Ghost Train]

Not that I that I don't agree with Mr. March but reading that post I can't help but think of this

"I am the architect. I created Kentucky Fried Chicken."

[EXO]

But is it really chicken? Or is the Matrix just telling you? This is what chicken tastes like...

[kaiotheforsaken]

What if what I think tasty wheat tasted like actually tasted like oatmeal or or tuna fish?

[EXO]

District 9 is still going strong at the Box Office.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/news/?id=2611&p=.htm

I'm definitely going to see it again...

[anime52k8]

You know, I know this steak doesn't exist. I know that when I put it in my mouth, the Matrix is telling my brain that it is juicy and delicious. After nine years, you know what I realize?

Ignorance is bliss.

[sharky]

That's what it started out as, but the last 2/3rds were pretty much constant shooting and violence. That was "shoot em up" formula.

This movie went south for me as soon as

the good guys went and got a bunch of huge guns and embarked on a suicide mission to get back the canister of fluid from the secret underground heavily fortified government testing facility. <(Cliche) That's very standard action/adventure fare and has nothing to do with apartheid or social awareness.

Can you imagine if in Children of Men, the terrorists succeed in capturing the last baby on earth and they bring it to their ultra secret terrorist compound? And then Clive Owen decides that the only thing to do is go get a bunch of guns and take part in a suicide mission to extract the baby from captivity in a huge bloody action-packed blaze of glory? How lame would that be?

But, I think that's why people liked it. I think they attempted to communicate a message in an entertaining way, and they succeeded IMO judging by the generally favorable response. I only saw it the one time, but I felt it was about 50/50 with the first half being the setup for the exciting climax and conclusion.

It was interesting to see the lead character's transformation and become the object of discrimination.

Maybe, when I see it again, I will find that I am wrong on the 50/50 thing, but that's my take on it having seen it once.

[EXO]

I'm glad it ended up with the gun battle. I was afraid that the thing was gonna be a social statement for aliens, guess what? There's no such things... if the aliens were bad guys and they shot them all up, I would have been happy too. The fact that they injected a story into it made it better than the standard over budgeted blockbuster but I definitely wanted an action film not a mock plea for the humane treatment of prawns. I actually don't think it's the greatest thing since "sliced bread" the movie, I think it suffers from a lot of plot holes but its definitely a good watch.

[sharky]

At the very least it's not your run of the mill action movie.

[Vic Mancini]

In other words, the later points are all window dressing from a critic demanding we accept the "fact" there is no difference between District 9 and the most hollow SFX-driven action film.

That's not what I said.

I said it was little more than a standard/formulaic action/shoot em up....not "no different" from one.

It was different... the "little more" being it's interesting premise.

[Syngyne]

The Onion AV club has a really good interview with the director where he answers a lot of questions people are bringing up.

As to why the aliens just sit for almost thirty years, and don't organize, rebel, or whatnot:

The aliens are all drones. Something happened aboard their mothership that killed the queen and the elite caste, and without anyone giving them orders they just don't have any motivation to do anything constructive, and aren't particularly smart. If you noticed at the beginning of the film, the one foraging with Christopher couldn't even tell the difference between its own tech and human tech. Christopher is more intelligent than the other prawns because after thirty years the hive structure is trying to restart itself, and his brain structure had changed to be more in line with one of the elite class.

[Kanedas Bike]

The Onion AV club has a really good interview with the director where he answers a lot of questions people are bringing up.

As to why the aliens just sit for almost thirty years, and don't organize, rebel, or whatnot:

The aliens are all drones. Something happened aboard their mothership that killed the queen and the elite caste, and without anyone giving them orders they just don't have any motivation to do anything constructive, and aren't particularly smart. If you noticed at the beginning of the film, the one foraging with Christopher couldn't even tell the difference between its own tech and human tech. Christopher is more intelligent than the other prawns because after thirty years the hive structure is trying to restart itself, and his brain structure had changed to be more in line with one of the elite class.

As someone that enjoyed the movie that was a great read - thanks for posting the link.

I'm also glad Neill didn't "spoon-feed" the audience, there was enough explained that you didn't have to suspend your disbelief to normal Hollywood levels. What was left vague in the story didn't feel like they just left it that way because there was no explanation, but rather it assumes the audience can make some well informed inferences/assumptions from what was presented in the story.

-b.

[Mog]

The Onion AV club has a really good interview with the director where he answers a lot of questions people are bringing up.

As to why the aliens just sit for almost thirty years, and don't organize, rebel, or whatnot:

The aliens are all drones. Something happened aboard their mothership that killed the queen and the elite caste, and without anyone giving them orders they just don't have any motivation to do anything constructive, and aren't particularly smart. If you noticed at the beginning of the film, the one foraging with Christopher couldn't even tell the difference between its own tech and human tech. Christopher is more intelligent than the other prawns because after thirty years the hive structure is trying to restart itself, and his brain structure had changed to be more in line with one of the elite class.

Very interesting tid-bits there!

It actually adds fuel to a point I brought up earlier:

I know Christopher showed shock and concern over the human's experiments on the Prawns.

But is it possible he thought, "Screw it! I saved my son, and we're back on the mothership. Let's just leave now."

Maybe he feels some pity for the Prawns left on the ground. But then again, why didn't he use the mothership to rescue a few of the Prawns? Why not get the mothership's weapons up and running or command all the Prawn mechs on the ground to set up a defensive position for a landing zone?

I'm curious if Christopher just finally decided, "Me and my son are safe. The Prawns below are just drones and not worth the trouble."

I mean, if you were able to save your family from an imminent attack or invasion, would you be willing to go back and risk saving a few other people too, especially if those people aren't exactly the best and brightest of your society? Say some low-level gang members or some vapid reality show contestants?

[sharky]

Very interesting tid-bits there!

It actually adds fuel to a point I brought up earlier:

I know Christopher showed shock and concern over the human's experiments on the Prawns.

But is it possible he thought, "Screw it! I saved my son, and we're back on the mothership. Let's just leave now."

Maybe he feels some pity for the Prawns left on the ground. But then again, why didn't he use the mothership to rescue a few of the Prawns? Why not get the mothership's weapons up and running or command all the Prawn mechs on the ground to set up a defensive position for a landing zone?

I'm curious if Christopher just finally decided, "Me and my son are safe. The Prawns below are just drones and not worth the trouble."

I mean, if you were able to save your family from an imminent attack or invasion, would you be willing to go back and risk saving a few other people too, especially if those people aren't exactly the best and brightest of your society? Say some low-level gang members or some vapid reality show contestants?

I think it has to do with

limited resources and experience. He needs more leader type prawns with more actual leadership experience to assist. I suppose one leader prawn wouldn't be enough to organize all the drones to fight effectively. From the interview it is now clear to me that Christopher is a newly evolved leader type who has no real experience leading a large group. And he certainly doesn't have experience leading a large group in a military campaign to gain their freedom back. The other thing that might be is that a large majority of their weapons may have been confiscated for the most part. If humans brought on the full force of the military on the prawns they would probably loose due to simple numbers even though their weaponry is more advanced. That is, they have better weapons, but no enough on hand to put up a real fight.

The ending is open ended though, so it's fun to wonder what he will actually do.

I like to think he will come back to help.

[shiroikaze]

I finally saw the movie last night. My brother and I thought it was great.

One thing bugged me though:

How Wikus can kill anyone so easily (and gruesomely) towards the end of the movie, I know he was desparate but I think the change was a bit too sudden.

[-Snowblind-]

...

One thing bugged me though:

How Wikus can kill anyone so easily (and gruesomely) towards the end of the movie, I know he was desparate but I think the change was a bit too sudden.

I agree that it was a pretty quick change of heart, but...

Wikus' actions can be taken as self-defense. His initial orders when breaking into the MNU research facility were to not hurt anyone, and he doesn't actually start shooting at people until he was shot at. Aside from that the only people killed were MNU private security forces (well, the mercenaries in white, anyway. I don't if they're actually MNU) who had already been established as ruthless, amoral bast... er, yeah. In typical Hollywood action movies this is usually enough to make killing them all 'bad guys' and killing them is 'okay'... realistically, of course, this doesn't fly... but it's a sci-fi action movie first and foremost.

[wolfx]

Its funny how he comments on how he doesn't want to spoon feed the audience too much. Revealing details (especially in a sci-fi) is just ....well......being detailed. Not quite spoon-feeding.

Though i did feel District 9's level of non-explanation was bearable to me, though i wonder if Blonkamp's current interpretation of the hive structure was adhoc-ly thought up for the interview.

He mentioned that Christopher was part of a new evolving "smart prawn" caste which took 20 years to restart its society. Like everyone here i felt like he was originally part of the original leadership on the ship or at least an engineer to some capacity. The reason for this reasoning is due to the command module. It dropped and the MNU was looking for it for 20 years but failed. That would mean Christopher or some prawn with some intelligence was actively trying to hide it, knowing its importance. If Christopher was originally a destitute prawn with no idea on what to do, that command module would've been found by the MNU the moment it fell and would be just lying there somewhere on top of District 9.

The other reason would be the nano fluid. Christopher had to actively look for enough fluid to restart the command module , and it took him 20 years to do so. There is no way for him to start collecting it 20 years ago if he was still a drone prawn then.

That said , i wonder if Blonkamp will pull a Kawamori on us.

[anime52k8]

Its funny how he comments on how he doesn't want to spoon feed the audience too much. Revealing details (especially in a sci-fi) is just ....well......being detailed. Not quite spoon-feeding.

Though i did feel District 9's level of non-explanation was bearable to me, though i wonder if Blonkamp's current interpretation of the hive structure was adhoc-ly thought up for the interview.

He mentioned that Christopher was part of a new evolving "smart prawn" caste which took 20 years to restart its society. Like everyone here i felt like he was originally part of the original leadership on the ship or at least an engineer to some capacity. The reason for this reasoning is due to the command module. It dropped and the MNU was looking for it for 20 years but failed. That would mean Christopher or some prawn with some intelligence was actively trying to hide it, knowing its importance. If Christopher was originally a destitute prawn with no idea on what to do, that command module would've been found by the MNU the moment it fell and would be just lying there somewhere on top of District 9.

The other reason would be the nano fluid. Christopher had to actively look for enough fluid to restart the command module , and it took him 20 years to do so. There is no way for him to start collecting it 20 years ago if he was still a drone prawn then.

That said , i wonder if Blonkamp will pull a Kawamori on us.

hmm, honestly I walked out of the theater thinking the explanation was exactly what he said in the interview

Christopher was a regular prawn that just developed intelligence over time

.

I finally saw the movie last night. My brother and I thought it was great.

One thing bugged me though:

How Wikus can kill anyone so easily (and gruesomely) towards the end of the movie, I know he was desparate but I think the change was a bit too sudden.

I didn't find it all that odd.

At the start it was basically Just self defense (either he kills them or they kill him) not to mention he didn't start killing people till after they had tortured him and tried to dissect him. Also I kind of got the feeling that as the movie progressed the transformation into an alien wasn't Just effecting him physically but mentally as well, becoming less empathetic towards humans and more so towards the prawns.

[Mog]

In addition:

Wikus' sole purpose after he started becoming Prawn-ish was to become human again and reunite with his wife. This is made fairly clear during the ending scenes with the scrap-metal flowers.

Many a man has killed for something far less than being reunited with his wife.

Edited August 27, 2009 by Mog

[EXO]

In addition:

Wikus' sole purpose after he started becoming Prawn-ish was to become human again and reunite with his wife. This is made fairly clear during the ending scenes with the scrap-metal flowers.

Many a man has killed for something far less than being reunited with his wife.

Actually that was made clear when he told his wife that he'll reunite with her. I mean... I think that was clearer...

[wolfx]

hmm, honestly I walked out of the theater thinking the explanation was exactly what he said in the interview

Christopher was a regular prawn that just developed intelligence over time

.

How did you explain the on-screen evidence that seems to say otherwise?