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Robotech and HG License Debates


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Please don't tell me that they didn't snag Cam Clarke to do the voice of Maximilliam Sterling in "The Shadow Chronocles".

I can see why he used a pseudonym when he did the original Macross Saga of Robotech.

Max didn't make an appearance but his daughter Maia did. Only an older Rick was the only Macross saga character to appear. Though Vince Grant could be considered a Macross era person because of his appearances in the 1st two Wildstorm mini-series.

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If Big West ever does license the intellectual property of the original series to Harmony Gold, it'll be because Harmony Gold agrees to be contractually sodomized in hopes that the Macross designs will liven up the dreck that is Shadow Chronicles.

I don't know about that. When you're the company that helped pioneer the storytelling style what would eventually be known as Streamlined, Macekre, and Americanitis and still rely on them, you really think foreign companies would want to work for you?

They might leave HG with their foot in their mouths with this revival if they somehow get involved.

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I don't think it's as big legal thing that has WB standing-fast on RT-LAM. The plot of RT alone is more than enough to get by. "Alien ship crashes on Earth. Earth gains a whole bunch of new technology from it just in time to enter into a war with some aliens." That alone is fairly generic to avoid licensing issues. After that, you can redesign a lot of things which is most likely to happen. Riding the wave of Transformers can be a good thing, but at the same time, it can be seen as WB's attempt to grab some of the transforming toy market. So we look at the larger market. Is there a market for this movie? I have to compare with what's out there. Speed Racer, visual very close to the anime, but with Americanized feel. That didn't work. DB: Evolution, visual similar with a altered story. That didn't work either. SF: Legend of Chun Li. That just didn't work. Transformers, not very visually similar to the original, lot of "in spirit" designs and story, but it's a hit. G.I. Joe: The Rise of Cobra, some visuals are close, most are not and the story is a bit different. We're waiting for the jury to get back to us on that. If G.I. Joe doesn't do well, it may make WB more reluctant to jump on this bandwagon. I'm sure there's more but those are the ones that come to mind.

If RT wants to continue, it would be best to redesign. Star Trek did it and it seemed to have worked out fairly well for them. Now there's good example of taking old characters and designs and doing something fresh with it. It's within HG's scope to create "new" RT-stuff.

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I don't think it's as big legal thing that has WB standing-fast on RT-LAM. The plot of RT alone is more than enough to get by. "Alien ship crashes on Earth. Earth gains a whole bunch of new technology from it just in time to enter into a war with some aliens." That alone is fairly generic to avoid licensing issues. After that, you can redesign a lot of things which is most likely to happen. Riding the wave of Transformers can be a good thing, but at the same time, it can be seen as WB's attempt to grab some of the transforming toy market. So we look at the larger market. Is there a market for this movie? I have to compare with what's out there. Speed Racer, visual very close to the anime, but with Americanized feel. That didn't work. DB: Evolution, visual similar with a altered story. That didn't work either. SF: Legend of Chun Li. That just didn't work. Transformers, not very visually similar to the original, lot of "in spirit" designs and story, but it's a hit. G.I. Joe: The Rise of Cobra, some visuals are close, most are not and the story is a bit different. We're waiting for the jury to get back to us on that. If G.I. Joe doesn't do well, it may make WB more reluctant to jump on this bandwagon. I'm sure there's more but those are the ones that come to mind.

If RT wants to continue, it would be best to redesign. Star Trek did it and it seemed to have worked out fairly well for them. Now there's good example of taking old characters and designs and doing something fresh with it. It's within HG's scope to create "new" RT-stuff.

I think there's also the question of the nature of the "improvements" when things are made, or remade in live-action movie format. Sure, capturing the energy of the original is important, but what's most important is a good story, good characters, and especially some challenging probing of the issues behind whatever it is.

I'd like to give Terminator 2 as a good example, but as it's comics are based off of it, and not vice-versus... so, that leaves me with "Hulk".* What I like most about that movie is the probing into the characters, the circumstances of their being. The action, of course, was what originally attracted me to that movie. But looking back at it, it's the characters and the probing of things in The Hulk mythos in general, which makes me want to see that movie again.

I doubt that any of those movies that Azrael mentioned do the same thing. Therefore, they have all the appearances of being another in the long line of drole films for the Friday night crowd. Will WB do the same for the LAM? If they're basing the choice of doing it on the success or failure of other "remakes", then we can pretty much assume what type of movie it's going to be - one that's not going to come of much, and if lucky, break even.

*No, haven't seen Transformers. Will only watch it if it shows up on TV.

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Who knows? Maybe come Comic Con 2009, Harmony Gold/WB will announce that Big West decided to surrender all their rights to Macross after two years of intense negotiations and everyone can finally get on with their lives. happy.gif

No, WB will announce that they created 4 million 1:1 scale prop Zentradi warships that are now in orbit for the movie and that Steven Colbert will be the one firing the Death.. no Grand Cannon. :lol:

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-r...e-a-death-star-

I don't think it's as big legal thing that has WB standing-fast on RT-LAM. The plot of RT alone is more than enough to get by. "Alien ship crashes on Earth. Earth gains a whole bunch of new technology from it just in time to enter into a war with some aliens." That alone is fairly generic to avoid licensing issues. After that, you can redesign a lot of things which is most likely to happen. Riding the wave of Transformers can be a good thing, but at the same time, it can be seen as WB's attempt to grab some of the transforming toy market.

Good point. I would also like to point out that for Transformers all the action was filmed before the Transformers themselves were even modeled in their final design. WB is likely still in predevelopment planing as they sort through the hundreds of pages of script drafts debating what to use for the movie.

So we look at the larger market. Is there a market for this movie?

Is there a market for this movie? There very well could be. I think that will always be a big demand for watching epic space battles, breakneck aerial maneuvers performed by mecha to avoid missile swarms, jet pilots acting like "Mavericks" at times, and watching believable characters in interesting and extraordinary circumstances. I think something a lot of us Macross fans are forgetting is that Robotech can and should be filmed and marketed first and foremost as an enjoyable summer blockbuster movie rather then just an 1980s cartoon brought to life in a new medium for Robotech/Macross fans. Star Trek was a hit because it was a fun action packed movie that even non-Trekkie/Trekkers could get into, not cause the redesigns looked so new and refreshing. Lets be honest here over 99% of American movie goers are not going to give a dam about how the appearance of a Live Action CG SDF-1 compares to some Shinji Kawamori guy's design used in some 1980's cartoon, but would be more then happy to see it punch into a giant spaceship and blow-up it up from the inside with nukes in a scene with pretty special effects and explosions.

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Until some concrete news comes around they'll have to wait for the next anime/comic book convention to hear anything.

"They're working out the details for the LAMR. Well, there's always Anime Expo 2008. At least we met the staff."

"Still working out the details, huh? Darn, maybe at Comic-Con 2008, that's when big news in the industry always comes out. Thanks for the shout outs and free stuff."

"They have nothing to show, but they promise they're working on it. Okay, certainly they'll have something up for Mecha Con IV. Nice costumes this year btw."

"I met some of the staff. But dammit, definitely next year for the 25th Anniversary of Robotech."

"They're still working out the details from Anime Expo 2009. Good to hear it come straight from the staff, it's enough for me. Hope something happens at Comic-Con 2009. It's the 25th Anniversary of Robotech for crying out loud."

Notice a pattern?

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Was there anyone who was present at this year's A-kon (May 29-31, 2009)?

Excerpts from Kevin McKeever's recap of the event at RT.com:

ROBOTECH: PAST, PRESENT, AND FUTURE

8:30 P.M. — A standing room only crowd packed into the State Ballroom in the Sheraton Dallas Convention Center for the Robotech Past Present and Future panel. This panel, hosted by Harmony Gold’s Kevin McKeever, covered the history of the Robotech franchise followed by the latest information on merchandise and the live action movie from Warner Brothers.

See?? Robotech, despite everything you guys have been saying in this thread, can still garner a standing room.

So again, was anyone present at the con? What was the... "lastest information" that Kevin McKeever slipped to fans?

BANQUET WITH THE STARS

11:00 A.M. — To start Sunday morning off right A-Kon hosted its annual Banquet With The Stars in the main ballroom. This banquet allowed lucky fans to meet and mingle with their favorite guests in a more intimate atmosphere. At the Robotech table fans were able to ask questions and get autographs from Kevin while enjoying a good hearty breakfast.

As an aside, did any fan present at the event get Kevin McKeever to sign their DVD? Perhaps, a dedication to their kids?

Read more exciting anecdotes about washing the Jackass crew at:

Kevin McKeever's Fluff at Robotech.com

Notice a pattern?

Well... this year's Wondercons, Anime Expos and Comic-cons seem to be yielding "funny", brand new stories about Kevin McKeever's life... If that's your sort of thing.

...It's within HG's scope to create "new" RT-stuff.

I wonder if the eventual "Robotech History" documentary that will accompany the Robotech LAM DVD will even talk about the original Macross. Kevin McKeever has mentioned several times that they own the Macross IP, or something to that effect. I could see an interview with a Harmony Gold staffer glossing over the little detail, probably giving Kawamori a nod, and then go on by saying Robotech is 100% original.

Robotech fanbase is SO gullible that they'll buy ANYTHING, no matter how poor the quality, just so long as there's somebody named Rick Hunter in it, and that continuing to recycle old characters, plot devices, mecha designs, etc. is more profitable than making original content.

Seto, you still pissed at buying the Love & War comic?

Edited by chrisk
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I've been to those RT panels and it's the same thing everytime... the history of Robotech... the tired old story about how and why 3 cartoons had to be joined into one. The upcoming products and shows. But then when you ask them questions... they have no answers what so ever. If you ask them about toys, they have no idea... ask Toynami. What about the cartoons... no idea, we have to ask the animators. What about the movie, we can't talk about that but we'll tell you as soon as we find out. And everyone claps at the end! Weeeee!!!

It's as if they're all waiting for the moment something will happen and they'll show the world it's worth waiting for.

But there goes the MPCs veritechs...

that's not it, keep waiting, just watch...

there goes the Alphas...

thats not it... keep watching...

there goes Shadow Chronicles....

ummmm... close but no that's not it either...

Hey those Cyclones are cool...

YES!!! Right??? I told you so!...

but Beagle made those for Mopeada fans...

that's because that's not it... let's keep watching...

Are we waiting for the movie???...

YES! Unless it sucks then that's not it, keep watching...

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I think there's also the question of the nature of the "improvements" when things are made, or remade in live-action movie format. Sure, capturing the energy of the original is important, but what's most important is a good story, good characters, and especially some challenging probing of the issues behind whatever it is.

Yeah, but this glosses over the real problem with the live-action Robotech movie. The fans want (and are, by in large, expecting) a faithful adaptation of the "Macross Saga" with all the familiar mechanical designs. Once you take those out of the picture, and modify the story to avoid a copyright infringement lawsuit, what you're left with is a project that many fans have avidly pointed out that they DO NOT WANT.

Seto, you still pissed at buying the Love & War comic?

Don't tell me you actually thought I paid money for that crap.

But then when you ask them questions... they have no answers what so ever. If you ask them about toys, they have no idea... ask Toynami. What about the cartoons... no idea, we have to ask the animators. What about the movie, we can't talk about that but we'll tell you as soon as we find out. And everyone claps at the end! Weeeee!!!

An admirable summary.

Unfortunately, they repeat the same bullshit behaviors on their message boards too.

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I've been to those RT panels and it's the same thing everytime... the history of Robotech... the tired old story about how and why 3 cartoons had to be joined into one. The upcoming products and shows. But then when you ask them questions... they have no answers what so ever. If you ask them about toys, they have no idea... ask Toynami. What about the cartoons... no idea, we have to ask the animators. What about the movie, we can't talk about that but we'll tell you as soon as we find out. And everyone claps at the end! Weeeee!!!

rick_cosplay_1.jpg

Well, it's pretty apparent that a lot of people from the States do like listening to the same drivel by the same three people, year after year, con after con. What's disturbing is that they're willing to pay a lot of money to do it too.

Has anyone asked what Macross Zero or Frontier are and if they're the next installment of Robotech?

The fans want (and are, by in large, expecting) a faithful adaptation of the "Macross Saga" with all the familiar mechanical designs.

Maybe fans don't know what they want. Look at Michael Bay's Transformers... that looked... visually interesting on-screen. What about GI Joe's skin-tight "Accelerator" suits? That might start a fad among the die-hards.

Don't tell me you actually thought I paid money for that crap.

Hey, not all Robotech fans began cynical/frustrated with the franchise. ^_^

Edited by chrisk
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Well, it's pretty apparent that a lot of people from around the States do like listening to the same drivel by the same three people, year after year, con after con. What's disturbing is that they're willing to pay a lot of money to do it too.

I think it was Phineas Taylor Barnum who once said "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public". It doesn't surprise me that the die-hards are paying good money to hear the same old half-answers, half-truths, and weak excuses... after all, those exceptionally gullible people are the ones who've bought Robotech on DVD three or four times for each incremental improvement in video and audio quality and a few minor special features. They're the ones who've kept Robotech alive all these years.

Has anyone asked what Macross Zero or Frontier are and if they're the next installment of Robotech?

The answer is a resounding "no".

Edited by Seto Kaiba
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Well, it's pretty apparent that a lot of people from around the States do like listening to the same drivel by the same three people, year after year, con after con. What's disturbing is that they're willing to pay a lot of money to do it too.

I dunno...there are a lot of empty seats after the first few rows.

Besides, how many are hardcore fans and how many are just kinda curious?

I went to the Anime Expo RT thing in 2004. Does that make me a rabid, slavering RT lover?

'Course, that was the year they said that had a MAJOR announcement, which a lot of us thought would be about DYRL. Turned out it was that Invasion video game. And DYRL toys were merely a postscript. <_<

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"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public". It doesn't surprise me that the die-hards are paying good money to hear the same old half-answers, half-truths, and weak excuses...

Dude, are you sure P.T. Barnum and Kevin McKeever aren't related? :rolleyes:

I dunno...there are a lot of empty seats after the first few rows.

Besides, how many are hardcore fans and how many are just kinda curious?

I went to the Anime Expo RT thing in 2004. Does that make me a rabid, slavering RT lover?

Empty seats, huh? Check this awesome article out:

SDCC Robotech Panel - FULL HOUSE

You're right though. As I mentioned earlier, probably half of the audience are expecting news from the Live Action Movie... which will probably be announced by Warner Brothers themselves anyway. Why would they give this McKeever guy the authority to do that?

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Empty seats, huh? Check this awesome article out:

SDCC Robotech Panel - FULL HOUSE

You're right though. As I mentioned earlier, probably half of the audience are expecting news from the Live Action Movie... which will probably be announced by Warner Brothers themselves anyway. Why would they give this McKeever guy the authority to do that?

I especially like the small print at each picture that identifies the pics as being from '02 to '06. What happened to '07 and '08?

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We're talking about panels at anime and comic cons. It's really not difficult to fill a panel at those cons. Not everyone goes just because they're a huge fan of whatever the panel is about. Certainly not everyone goes to the convention just because of one panel. I had a full room once for a panel I was giving a presentation for. Sure, the room was a quarter the size of the one from the above photo, but I'm also a nobody illustrator who's never been on the tv, and never produced a franchise that's known nationwide. I was just showing some people tricks on using Photoshop to colour drawings.

I think it's fair to point out that nobody is saying that Robotech is a complete flop that no one's ever heard of, or no one has any interest in anymore. It's just not the huge deal HG makes it out to be. At least not anymore. There's a lot of old fans that are eager to hear something new. Probably not a lot of new fans. Robotech doesn't have nearly the popularity of Transformers or Evangelion or anything like that.

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Besides, how many are hardcore fans and how many are just kinda curious?

I went to the Anime Expo RT thing in 2004. Does that make me a rabid, slavering RT lover?

Good point, the cost to enter a convention are pretty high sometimes. If you wanted to stretch the money you spent just to get in the thing you might as well see as much as you can, even a low priority Robotech panel. I'd be curious to see if it really is the same thing every Robotech panel.

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I especially like the small print at each picture that identifies the pics as being from '02 to '06. What happened to '07 and '08?

Why would they post pictures that would show them in an unfavorable light?

Robotech.com isn't exactly an objective source of information... if there's news that shows Harmony Gold or Robotech in an unfavorable light, or portrays Robotech as something less than wildly popular and successful, you won't see it there. If someone posts that unflattering news on the boards, you bet they'll get their thread locked and they'll be told off by the mods.

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Sadly, I admit that I acually paid for my copies of Robotech Love and War #1 and #2.

Those were the comics that actually killed the franchise for me.

Biggest mistake Jim Lee ever made, in my humble opinion, was selling his Wildstorm Comics company to Warner Bros. (if you don't know DC Comics is a Time-Warner company).

Edited by Wanzerfan
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Not everyone who is a Robotech fan, old or new, posts on the official site or the other related sites. They might talk about it once in a while on blogs and stuff, but not as regularly like other people. You know, bigger priorities, hobbies or other things. Conventions are probably the most people get to see how far along the franchise is going, but they're not as obsessed about it or anything. They could be just reminiscing about the good times by going to these panels regardless of their opinions about the current stuff (they do talk about the history of Robotech often enough). They could have a more realistic idea of what's really happening with the franchise too. However, attendance numbers are very important for HG to keep this going.

It kind of reminds me of something like a very restricted Star Trek/Star Wars convention tacked on to an anime convention. They do the same road show every year but are not as productive as both Stars overall , not even charity work sometimes. They do call it The Robotech Convention Tour 200X after all.

And I paid a dollar each for the Robotech From the Stars single issue comic books, some variant covers, and an Antarctic comic. It felt like a low-risk version of Macross Zero that didn't try to go anywhere.

Edited by Einherjar
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Yeah, but this glosses over the real problem with the live-action Robotech movie. The fans want (and are, by in large, expecting) a faithful adaptation of the "Macross Saga" with all the familiar mechanical designs. Once you take those out of the picture, and modify the story to avoid a copyright infringement lawsuit, what you're left with is a project that many fans have avidly pointed out that they DO NOT WANT.

That is an issue with almost every movie based on a popular franchise, its always the hardcore fans that are the most vocal in wanting a faithful adaption and are the hardest to satisfy. In the grand scheme of things they form a percentage of the moviegoers a Live-action Robotech moive would market to. Watchmen showed that a blockbuster movie cannot even break even if it appeals only to fans of the franchise. Making a movie that is "faithful" to the original source material is one thing, making a movie that is actually enjoyable to watch is another, and they are not mutually inclusive.

I could argue as an example that Macross DRYL wasn't exactly "faithful" to the original SDF Macross designs while Robotech: Shadow Chronicles was as faithful to the New Generation/Mosepedia designs as possible. We all know the movie that was more enjoyable, better paced, and better put together though.

Edited by Freiflug88
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Maybe fans don't know what they want. Look at Michael Bay's Transformers... that looked... visually interesting on-screen. What about GI Joe's skin-tight "Accelerator" suits? That might start a fad among the die-hards.

A LOT of fandoms seem to not really know what they want.

I can't count how many things I've seen ruined by doing EXACTLY what the fans asked for. Heck, several times I've seen the fans flip around and ask WTF was wrong with the creators.

Though I think Transformers: Animated is a better example than the Bayformers.

Given there was probably MORE initial outrage over the Animated designs, and it's become a VERY fan-popular installment...

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Though I think Transformers: Animated is a better example than the Bayformers.

Given there was probably MORE initial outrage over the Animated designs, and it's become a VERY fan-popular installment...

I didn't see that coming. Guess it's like the Trukk not munky controversy that came with Beast Wars.

Anyway, in the wake of Shadow Chronicles and Rising fiasco, what other things can happen to cause further outrage from the live movie with the current trend of remakes?

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Anyway, in the wake of Shadow Chronicles and Rising fiasco, what other things can happen to cause further outrage from the live movie with the current trend of remakes?

SDF-1 could have its main cannons replaced by the vacuum cleaner from its father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roomate the Space Ball 1 :lol:

.

EDIT:

Beam me up Scotty, there is no sign of Protoculture around here.

glovalshatner.th.jpg

Edited by Freiflug88
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Sadly, I admit that I acually paid for my copies of Robotech Love and War #1 and #2.

Those were the comics that actually killed the franchise for me.

Yeah, Wildstorm's "From the Stars" and "Love and War" convinced a fair few fans that Robotech's creators had long since abandoned any pretense of originality or creativity, and were just coasting on the popularity of the Macross Saga, or rather, Macross. Perversely, some fans hold those two miniseries up as examples of the best Robotech comics ever made!

Anyway, in the wake of Shadow Chronicles and Rising fiasco, what other things can happen to cause further outrage from the live movie with the current trend of remakes?

Considering that the live-action movie doesn't even have a script yet, the mind boggles.

No matter what Warner does, the mecha designs are a guaranteed lose-lose situation. Either they try to come up with something new, risking the almost certain outcome of the fans turning up their noses at it, or they try to come up with something close to Studio Nue's designs and risk getting slapped with a lawsuit.

For all practical purposes, the script is a lose-lose situation too. If they do manage to accurately replicate the Macross Saga's themes and tone, the casual audience won't take to it because the terminology and modified story are hopelessly dated, and if they don't, the casual audience might take to it okay, but the fans will crucify them for turning the story into another "Michael Bay presents... Loud Noises".

Between the fact that there's no way they're working with an old, anachronistic property that nobody gives a damn about anymore, and the fact that it's the legal equivalent of a minefield, the movie doesn't appear to have very good prospects.

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Out of all the Robotech comics, the Wildstorm ones are probably the most vibrant of the bunch, if only because they were one of the few made when digital techniques came around. It still doesn't help the parts that mattered besides the plot, the mecha and character designs, which look like a cross between quasi anime and Western animation. I'm not bothered that I spent money on the comics though, a dollar is a dollar, they were supposed to be E-Bay fodder anyway.

But by the end of the Robotech comic run, how many reiterations of the original designs by Mikimoto and others from all three series go through by other people? I'm assuming not everyone they hired just traced over the originals and at least tried to innovate.

Edited by Einherjar
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It kind of reminds me of something like a very restricted Star Trek/Star Wars convention tacked on to an anime convention. They do the same road show every year but are not as productive as both Stars overall, not even charity work sometimes. They do call it The Robotech Convention Tour 200X after all.

Sure, sure. No problem with trying to reminisce about the good ol' days.

Check out this video on "Animation on Display", held Feb. 2009 (The convention where McKeever proudly retold his Jackass experience)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vorGR6IOFY

Skip to 50 seconds to see McKeever swing into action.

And then skip to 2:40...

I can't say I like how this McKeever guy is luring fans into thinking he has something new to say about the Robotech Live Action Movie. Is McKeever and company still trying to "educate" fans that the Live Action Movie exists, that Tobey Maguire's going to star in it, blah de blah blah? :huh:

A LOT of fandoms seem to not really know what they want.

I can't count how many things I've seen ruined by doing EXACTLY what the fans asked for.

90% of Robotech fans loved the Macross Saga, and they absolutely adored Rick Hunter. The majority of longtime fans could not accept the fact that towards the finale of "New Generation", the now-Admiral Hunter orders *ahem* Neutron S Missiles (doomsday devices) to blow the Earth.

Tommy Yune, being a self-confessed "New Generation" fan, really believed this is what fans wanted. So he crafted the first third of Shadow Chronicles to be some twisted "ret-con" episode of The New Generation where he "tries" to make Hunter into some kind of victim of circumstance. (Avoid the Prelude comics because it makes Hunter look even more foolish)

It seems fans don't know what they want, and fans who run media ventures don't know either... :wacko:

It still doesn't help the parts that mattered besides the plot, the mecha and character designs, which look like a cross between quasi anime and Western animation.

I know a lot of people praise the old Wildstorm Robo-Comics for looking "like the TV show", but to me the artist who made it has some of the wonkiest anatomy/proportion ever. Characters often looked goofy and lifeless, and some sport disturbing muscle proportions. In the end, the only saving grace was the vibrant coloring.

I learned later that the same artist was involved in designing the super-masculine Shadow Chronicles characters...

I'm not bothered that I spent money on the comics though, a dollar is a dollar, they were supposed to be E-Bay fodder anyway.

Hehe, nearly all the Robotech comics I bought were from the bargain bin. Except for the Prelude thing, which "they" say became a much-sought after commodity a few years ago...

Edited by chrisk
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One thing I never understood about Robotech's "Netron S" thing is that in Mospeada those missiles are called "Electrically Charged Particle Missile" which is totally not what a neutron is. They had a two out of three shot of getting it right going on basic atomic structure. Also the way Robotech fans adore Rick Hunter is downright fetishistic. Then again its understandable when the show's narrative dangles him like a carrot in front of the fans all the time. The way they made him the MacGuffin in Shadow Chronicles is absolutely hilarious.

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Although they never went into depth about its importance in Shadow Chronicles, I thought Protoculture was supposed to be the MacGuffin if they cared enough about what they were doing. There's now a shortage with ramifications for their universe and they've shown that everyone is completely useless without it. Instead, the focus was beating another alien threat and finding Rick Hunter. Granted, the MacGuffin producer needed to make the MacGuffin was with Mr. MacGuffin, the stakes were too high to end on another cliffhanger with very little new getting accomplished. It can't get any bigger than all the important stuff in the universe drifting towards a Black Hole and the writers stuck in a corner.

Can they really make Rick Hunter important enough to keep alive anymore? We've seen him change from a youthful teen pilot to emo Admiral and now a barely recognizable old man, and most of it off screen even. While other things have been happening on another side of the galaxy, he's somehow still relevant with everything going on. Forever losing contact with him somewhere in the galaxy seems more preferable. I doubt Rick and everyone else still alive from the Macross Saga will make it to the end of a sequel. They'll probably also replace everything with another MacGuffin if they ever address it. I would say something more efficient, but then that would make everything factions have fought for meaningless.

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Haha. That's Rick Hunter's new name, Mr. MacGuffin. I guess he's more relevant if you've read the novels or the Sentinels comics right? I mean he gets to be a main character and not perpetually off screen like in the show itself.

I would say something more efficient, but then that would make everything factions have fought for meaningless.

Isn't it all pretty meaningless anyways? Resources are totally irrelevant to Macross's plot so there's not much setup to be had there. In Southern Cross the Protozor is what makes the Zor's society work even though it has little to do with the spiffy robots and pew pew lasers. For Mospeada the HBT is mostly a plot device for why the crew isn't flying their surprisingly well maintained airplanes everywhere. Where's the fuss coming from?

Edited by VF5SS
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That would make the Haydonites the worst of the bunch, starting wars with people over a vaguely defined negative relationship with Protoculture, which everyone else has to use. They're like the Yuuzhan Vong from Star Wars. Guess it would be too cerebral for Robotech if conflicts did not revolve around some limited resource.

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I would say something more efficient, but then that would make everything factions have fought for meaningless.

That would make the Haydonites the worst of the bunch, starting wars with people over a vaguely defined negative relationship with Protoculture, which everyone else has to use. They're like the Yuuzhan Vong from Star Wars. Guess it would be too cerebral for Robotech if conflicts did not revolve around some limited resource.

That "something more efficient" I imagine would likely be the Haydonite's energy source, unless the Haydonites turnout to be rival siblings of the Invid. Rather then evolving into supernatural the Haydonite's became cybernetic beings with their own variation of Protoculture and a robotic Overlord over a Regiss.

One thing I never understood about Robotech's "Netron S" thing is that in Mospeada those missiles are called "Electrically Charged Particle Missile" which is totally not what a neutron is. They had a two out of three shot of getting it right going on basic atomic structure.

Neutrons have no net electrical charge hence they are neutral, but that doesn't change the fact that Neutrons are electrically charged like Electons and Protons. I think they went with "Neutron S" because the name Proton Torpedos were already taken though.

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