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Robotech and HG License Debates


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Robotech aired on two different channels in the NY/NJ area where I grew up. It first aired on Saturday and Sunday on the local NBC station (channel 4). followed by Monday through Friday on what would eventually be the local WB network (channel 11.

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Unfortunatly even if the RLAM gets made and is succesfull there is no guarantee HG will release it's stranglehold on Macross.

Unfortunately there is no guarantee of a release on Macross no matter what happens to the RLAM considering that "One of Harmony Gold's flagship titles is Robotech" according to http://www.harmonygold.com/about.htm. Short of extreme measures such as finding a way to buy 51% of Harmony Gold's private stock or burning their company to the ground there is nothing we can do, but watch and see what happens. :(

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Unfortunately there is no guarantee of a release on Macross no matter what happens to the RLAM considering that "One of Harmony Gold's flagship titles is Robotech" according to http://www.harmonygold.com/about.htm. Short of extreme measures such as finding a way to buy 51% of Harmony Gold's private stock or burning their company to the ground there is nothing we can do, but watch and see what happens. :(

one of? haha.

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Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwww!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Check THIS out from that website Exo refered to:

One of Harmony Gold's flagship titles is Robotech, the Japanese anime franchise that includes a groundbreaking TV series originated in 1985; two feature films, novels, comic books and toys. The Robotech.com website generated record-breaking traffic in its debut, strictly on the word-of-mouth of its fan-base, without the benefit of web marketing. This successful franchise also includes video games, wireless entertainment, and the highly anticipated new sequel Robotech: The Shadow Chronicles, which has recently completed production for worldwide release in high-definition.

Record breaking web trafic! Video Games! Toys! And a highly anticipated sequal!!

WOWIE WOWIE WOW!!

WORLD WIDE RELEASE!?

wwwwwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwww!!!!!!!!!

That is so ultra cool! I wanna be a part of this world wide historical record breaking golden series!

I don't wanna be left out!

I'm going to robotech.com RIGHT NOW based on word of mouth to sign up!

I'm SHOCKED that this sequal with WORLD WIDE distribuction never showed up at a theatre near me! How could I have missed it!?

So - when does the third movie come out?

Pete

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WORLD WIDE RELEASE!?

To be fair, I did see the bootleg copy...

Also, I'm willing to bet that the whole idea that Robotech was a hit because of "WOM" is McKeever's idea. A ton of people bugged him why the web marketing was so weak/incompetent. (no interactive flash games/movies tie-ins, barely-there web banners, etc.) What I can't believe is why McKeever would put that pseudo-rant there...

Edited by chrisk
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Also, I'm willing to bet that the whole idea that Robotech was a hit because of "WOM" is McKeever's idea. A ton of people bugged him why the web marketing was so weak/incompetent. (no interactive flash games/movies tie-ins, barely-there web banners, etc.) What I can't believe is why McKeever would put that pseudo-rant there...

I love reading that stuff for comedy sake. WOM??? The only people that really bought into their crap is their fanbase. The WOM didn't do a damn thing, nor is the website record breaking. At this point, it's more of a "whatever you say, Bill!" If there's a good group of fans that want to believe the hype, ignorance is bliss for them. I'm in bliss over knowing truth.

As for the action in that rt.com thread, there is action going on w/ the LAM, they're waiting. Waiting is action in and of itself. The movie is on hiatus (I know Kevin hates his own words, but he needs a dictionary).

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I love reading that stuff for comedy sake. WOM??? The only people that really bought into their crap is their fanbase. The WOM didn't do a damn thing, nor is the website record breaking. At this point, it's more of a "whatever you say, Bill!" If there's a good group of fans that want to believe the hype, ignorance is bliss for them. I'm in bliss over knowing truth.

As for the action in that rt.com thread, there is action going on w/ the LAM, they're waiting. Waiting is action in and of itself. The movie is on hiatus (I know Kevin hates his own words, but he needs a dictionary).

I am sure WOM worked wonders on Robotech's popularity... back in 85.

I feel tempted to point out to Kevin that Big West guys actually get their work on sequels done rather then placing them on "hiatus" as they waste times pandering to fanboys with no life on an "awesome" website. :lol:

Edited by Freiflug88
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I looked at HG's corporate website and realized, by today's standards, that they butchered almost every animated work they listed on their catalog at one time (poor Windaria). Also, I'm kind of interested in this Seven Seas show. Did they release this anywhere before?

But kudos to them, it looks like they actually updated the site since the last time I checked it.

©2008 Harmony Gold USA, Inc. All rights reserved.

It must mean they had work, or invested in something, last year.

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Very true, perhaps instead of spending time to cover up their lack of progress, and making general blanket statements full of holes, they should use that time to actually do something worth talking about. It has become apparent that their so used to trying to put out fires, that they have sacrificed actual building. It could be that Tommy and co. have grown a sense of fear that what they are trying to do will be ever so harshly criticized as Shadow Chronicles, thus the reason why they have absolutely nothing for Shadow Rising. Could also be that they're just trying so hard to "wow" everyone, that they stuck themselves in a writer's block. Could be that WB really doesn't want a possible LAM tainted by more crap, who knows. What is certain, is that as people on the "outside" of this matter, can only go by what is in front of us. In my profession, I have to deal with what is given to me, and call it as it is shown, not just by what is said. From that, I process that info and need to make quick, sound judgements on how to interpret it. The final outcome needs to reflect what is given, what is processed, and what is going to ensure that all parties involved are safe (that no harm is done to anyone, or lives lost). While it's a far stretch to some, the "No information" on behalf of HG and it's ever so wannabe wise staff think this means a lot to people, that somehow we are to interpret that as them working hard.... um no. I see it as they have no information because nothing has transpired since the last tidbit that occurred maybe a year or so ago. The facts they bring are that they divert the attention of Shadow rising and the LAM to other things, and their statement of we're doing a lot and hard at work but we don't have anything to tell is B.S. Excuse the language, but you can't bullshit the bullshitter (for those that don't know, a term meaning you can't fool someone who knows your game).

I'm sure if they all-of-a sudden had some new info, they'd try to point the finger at us "naysayers" as they call us, but it has nothing to do with that. I like to deal in facts, and right now, I can't take anything they say as such. Show me something, and I'll believe you're still alive over there. Sad thing is, that won't mean that still won't mean they have a good product. That's an entirely different mess I don't think the current staff has the skills to overcome and make.

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Would it still be considered good timing if HG decided to reveal anything significant for the LAMR or Shadow Rising this year, preferably this summer? With MacF and other mecha shows already done save for movie versions and the comic/anime adaptation craze dying down a bit, if they were waiting to wow anyone with either project they may have missed their chance. Not only will their animated content be compared to stuff like the latest Gundam and Macross series, but their live movie content will also be judged by both similar successes and flops already seen in the movie industry. Even worse for the LAMR because of the stigma against live action adaptions thanks to Dragonball Evolution and others. If they have something up their sleeves regarding the future, it's not doing them any good to keep it to themselves for much longer.

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Would it still be considered good timing if HG decided to reveal anything significant for the LAMR or Shadow Rising this year, preferably this summer? With MacF and other mecha shows already done save for movie versions and the comic/anime adaptation craze dying down a bit, if they were waiting to wow anyone with either project they may have missed their chance. Not only will their animated content be compared to stuff like the latest Gundam and Macross series, but their live movie content will also be judged by both similar successes and flops already seen in the movie industry. Even worse for the LAMR because of the stigma against live action adaptions thanks to Dragonball Evolution and others. If they have something up their sleeves regarding the future, it's not doing them any good to keep it to themselves for much longer.

They would be riding on Transformers 2: RotF's coattails for the LAM. But yes, movies based on old franchises or adapted from cartoons isn't holding much water right now. Cartoon-wise, they would be on their own. Both Macross and Gundam shows ended a while ago. But Gundam 00's second season will start airing on Sci-Fi on June 29th. Even with that, you can't be sure. Normally, a cartoon would follow a live action flick if it wants some good recognition. But a cartoon eventually will have to stand on its own once a live-action goes away. Transfromers: Animated held its ground fairly well after the live-action movie faded to DVD. So would it be good timing? Dunno. A cartoon may not have as much recognition on its own without a live-action movie. For a live-action movie? There might be a market saturation if they do and will ultimately be decided by the market as to how well it might do.

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Would it still be considered good timing if HG decided to reveal anything significant for the LAMR or Shadow Rising this year, preferably this summer? With MacF and other mecha shows already done save for movie versions and the comic/anime adaptation craze dying down a bit, if they were waiting to wow anyone with either project they may have missed their chance. Not only will their animated content be compared to stuff like the latest Gundam and Macross series, but their live movie content will also be judged by both similar successes and flops already seen in the movie industry. Even worse for the LAMR because of the stigma against live action adaptions thanks to Dragonball Evolution and others. If they have something up their sleeves regarding the future, it's not doing them any good to keep it to themselves for much longer.

From what they've shown from their previous track record(s), they seem to have a tendency to either be a day late, a buck short, or simply way behind on getting the 8-ball. With Robotech 3000, they tried to release it and appeal to the fans when that ultra cheesy CG rendering was on its way out, and was already old and over-done. When it comes to releasing things at wrong times, they missed the boat on selling their Shadow Chronicles for the Christmas season simply to get it in a store that probably didn't change too much. The LAM seems to be trying to ride off of the 80s cartoon craze of TF, but with TF coming this Wednesday, and absolutely no news of Robotech on the silver screen, it's all sketchy projections right now.

And it's very much agreed that the no news is good news doesn't work. There's also the saying, out of sight, out of mind. We talk about it here, but with such a small group, and not necessarily a positive outlook on it, it looks like the only "buzz" is rt.com, and they're losing steam, plain and simple.

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Would it still be considered good timing if HG decided to reveal anything significant for the LAMR or Shadow Rising this year, preferably this summer? With MacF and other mecha shows already done save for movie versions and the comic/anime adaptation craze dying down a bit, if they were waiting to wow anyone with either project they may have missed their chance. Not only will their animated content be compared to stuff like the latest Gundam and Macross series, but their live movie content will also be judged by both similar successes and flops already seen in the movie industry. Even worse for the LAMR because of the stigma against live action adaptions thanks to Dragonball Evolution and others. If they have something up their sleeves regarding the future, it's not doing them any good to keep it to themselves for much longer.

I think that HG doesn't really have anything significant to reveal about either projects though. Shadow Risining seems to be on indefinite hiatus after they must have realized that the Shadow movies aren't going to revitalize the franchise with newer fans as they hoped. On the other hand the LAMR is probably still in the middle of scripting with no actual news to reveal.

Though their is a stigma againist live action adaptions because of horrible movies like DB Evolution, their have also been very successful adaptions such as Batman, No country for Oldmen, and V for Vendetta. I think the problem with many adaptions is that they come off as too "cartoony" to be taken seriously like Speed Racer. Five mins into the film there is a driver floating away in a force fields that is made of soap bubbles before their cars explodes, yet we are supposed to accept the dangers of racing. The LAMR should easily avoid being seen as cartoonish since WB would most likely treat Robotech as a mature and serious adaption like Dark Knight over a campy adaption like Batman and Robin.

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I will never understand why HG hasn't bent over backwards to work with the Japanese companies involved with all subsequent Macross projects to bring stuff stateside jointly. They have essentially been vampires living off of the creativity of others for a couple decades now, why not just embrace it and help milk the luctrative US market instead of slugging along geting table-scraps and harming the brand. They have essentially thrown away profits and cost themselves millions and millions of dollars in the process. It's a crime that Zero and now Fronteir have not made it over because they would have re-vitalized the Macross name significantly and generated a lot of extra income for all companies involved.

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I will never understand why HG hasn't bent over backwards to work with the Japanese companies involved with all subsequent Macross projects to bring stuff stateside jointly. They have essentially been vampires living off of the creativity of others for a couple decades now, why not just embrace it and help milk the luctrative US market instead of slugging along geting table-scraps and harming the brand. They have essentially thrown away profits and cost themselves millions and millions of dollars in the process. It's a crime that Zero and now Fronteir have not made it over because they would have re-vitalized the Macross name significantly and generated a lot of extra income for all companies involved.

I consider it a problem with capitalism and greed. It might have something to do with the trade secrets of releasing anime abroad (how much it takes to put a series on the selves these days). Similar companies don't talk about it openly but they also made important connections with Japanese companies to help release stuff. HG can't follow the same route, unless Tatsunoko and DR Movie (Shadow Chronicles) still care for their business. The revenue they generate might be a drop in the bucket compared to other works these days. Whatever the value, HG doesn't have the capital or facilities to do it themselves and since they claim to have the licenses and stuff as a advantage they probably want to make a deal that is unusually beneficial to them. I'm guessing the money they're demanding is for general revenue for the company and to cover the expenses they would pay to bring it to the states. This could mean farming work in the U.S. and etc at prices they couldn't pay without help.

If no one wants to work with them they can stick to the same PR game that the other parties refuse to bring these series abroad under their terms. The goal is to create the fan and public perception that they are the victim and everyone else involved are the problem. I hope somewhere in this mess preserving Carl Macek's and other crew's ego is not part of the plan. At least HG doesn't have a say on how the Macross sequels should be.

Edited by Einherjar
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I will never understand why HG hasn't bent over backwards to work with the Japanese companies involved with all subsequent Macross projects to bring stuff stateside jointly. They have essentially been vampires living off of the creativity of others for a couple decades now, why not just embrace it and help milk the luctrative US market instead of slugging along geting table-scraps and harming the brand. They have essentially thrown away profits and cost themselves millions and millions of dollars in the process. It's a crime that Zero and now Fronteir have not made it over because they would have re-vitalized the Macross name significantly and generated a lot of extra income for all companies involved.

Its easy, HG has always had the attitude that it knows better than everybody else. Working with the Japanese now would be conceding that they are a bunch of morons.

Taksraven

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Its easy, HG has always had the attitude that it knows better than everybody else. Working with the Japanese now would be conceding that they are a bunch of morons.

Exactly. Its more then just a simple money issue its also a matter of pride. While HG doen't want to admit that Robotech blows, Big West doen't want to swallow their pride and work with the very people that stole their creation Macross.

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I don't think it's pride over admitting Macross is better than Robotech or anything like that, I think it's pride over their past statements. They have claimed loudly, and frequently, that they own Macross. That they own the story rights, the designs, everything. It was the entire basis for preventing Yamato's Macross Plus toys from appearing in the States. They've since changed their claims to rest primarily on the trademark they somehow got, but they've never admitted that their ownership claims were completely bunk. Working with Big West would require such an admission.

On top of it, there's probably so much bad blood between Big West and Harmony Gold that it would not be surprising if Big West refused any sort of cooperation even if HG started bending over backwards at this point. If HG's ownership claims have been complete nonsense all this time (as seems to be the case), then HG's actions have been nothing short of criminal. Extortion via the threat of lengthy and costly legal battles making the American market just not cost effective for BW to pursue.

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Exactly. Its more then just a simple money issue its also a matter of pride. While HG doen't want to admit that Robotech blows, Big West doen't want to swallow their pride and work with the very people that stole their creation Macross.

More importantly, why would Big West even have to consider working with HG? I still think Honneamise should have taken a stab at releasing the DYRL HD remaster before they went under, just to see what happened. We know HG is full of bark, but they've yet to actually make a case against anyone with a legit Macross license. Not teh Yamato issue was George Sohn sabotaging Yamato before he left to start up Toynami, there was no actual case brought against them.

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More importantly, why would Big West even have to consider working with HG? I still think Honneamise should have taken a stab at releasing the DYRL HD remaster before they went under, just to see what happened. We know HG is full of bark, but they've yet to actually make a case against anyone with a legit Macross license. Not teh Yamato issue was George Sohn sabotaging Yamato before he left to start up Toynami, there was no actual case brought against them.

What was the George Sohn case? I'm familiar with both companies and have products from both, but unfamiliar with what you're referring to.

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More importantly, why would Big West even have to consider working with HG? I still think Honneamise should have taken a stab at releasing the DYRL HD remaster before they went under, just to see what happened. We know HG is full of bark, but they've yet to actually make a case against anyone with a legit Macross license. Not teh Yamato issue was George Sohn sabotaging Yamato before he left to start up Toynami, there was no actual case brought against them.

Due to Harmony Gold's Macross trademark anything bearing the name Macross has to have HG's seal of approval in order to be sold in the states. So if Big West desparatly wanted to release Macross stateside they would have to either play by HG's rules or rename their merchandise into Norcross or something. If Honneamise released DYRL stateside without HG's approval it wouldn't change anything. With the trademark HG can literally notify US customs to seize any DVDs marked "Macross" off of shipping containers and retail shelves with just a phone call and proof of trademark, no need for a legal case.

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This might be the big news for Robotech for 2009 so far.

Exclusive: ROBOTECH Movie Gets New Writer

Yeah, 4th time is a charm. I am curious what is his "very clear vision for the material that seemed to fit the collective group's vision for the property" is though. Has anyone here read his book Child 44 by chance?

What's the big deal with ROBOTECHFANPLUS ? After being banned from robotech.com, he admitted Macross was better than robotech at every level. smile.gif

He wrote that one month ago in his profile channel comments section :

"Ok i admit, Macross is indeed superior, that's why i stole their videos... But i'm a biased robotech fan, so in my heart ROBOTECH IS BETTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

"This ROBOTECH thing is just so EXCITING [he] just couldnt give it up, it just gets in your blood or something..." ~ Roy Fokker... NOT Focker

Edited by Freiflug88
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Yeah, 4th time is a charm. I am curious what is his "very clear vision for the material that seemed to fit the collective group's vision for the property" is though. Has anyone here read his book Child 44 by chance?

From hints from the article and the wikis, it looks like Tom Rob Smith is an author of suspense thriller books. Child 44 is like a Soviet Russia version of Jack the Ripper. He hasn't touched anything remotely sci-fi in his career so far. My guess is that they want to turn the LAMR a mind screw film because of the Protoculture.

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Yeah, 4th time is a charm. I am curious what is his "very clear vision for the material that seemed to fit the collective group's vision for the property" is though. Has anyone here read his book Child 44 by chance?

No time like the present to start reading his book.

No screenplay/script, no movie. So we're still where we were last week. And the world just keeps turning.

From hints from the article and the wikis, it looks like Tom Rob Smith is an author of suspense thriller books. Child 44 is like a Soviet Russia version of Jack the Ripper. He hasn't touched anything remotely sci-fi in his career so far. My guess is that they want to turn the LAMR a mind screw film because of the Protoculture.

In that case, we have a reason to call Protoculture "some wacky flower", "weed", or "Whatever you're smokin, <insert witty remark here>".

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Whatever reaction this has for the LAMR, HG and co. now have something new to talk about when the summer convention season starts next month (scripted exclusive report I believe). With little credentials under his belt, I hope he knows what he's putting himself into.

Honestly, where do they find these people to work on the LAMR?

Edited by Einherjar
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This might be the big news for Robotech for 2009 so far.

Exclusive: ROBOTECH Movie Gets New Writer

I think that writing this film would be the WORST possible job. Especially if HG has much input into what goes into the film. Then it has to get past the lawyers, etc. Do we know how much, if any input HG is going to have into this? I still wonder if the studio is aware of the complex legal situation surrounding this franchise. Probably not.

It will probably blow up in their faces when the movie is a few months away from being released (remember what happened to Watchmen), if the project gets that far, which I doubt.

Is anybody here familiar with the process that films go through when they are in scripting/development hell stages of production? How many people could have been assigned to this project already or would it just be the writer? When would the design work happen?

Sometimes I think that, as Macross fans, maybe we should be making more internet "noise" in other places such as youtube, to promote Macross and the fact that RT is a fake.

Taksraven

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Sometimes I think that, as Macross fans, maybe we should be making more internet "noise" in other places such as youtube, to promote Macross and the fact that RT is a fake.

I thought the Internet has been a big help to make that already happen. Up to now the derivative works that have come up in Robotech based on the original three series, and Megazone 23, and the deep analysis and information available to everyone online have done most of the work for us.

It also helps that HG can't to a damn thing without someone else doing it first. However, the LAMR might be a first in a whole bunch of embarrassing plans to revive the franchise. They already screwed up in an "anime movie" (The Untold Story), CGI (Robotech 3000), animation (The Sentinels), all three of them combined (Shadow Chronicles), comic books, and tie-in sci-fi novels, why not settle for live action these days?

Edited by Einherjar
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A new writer doesn't mean a thing.

Movie rights are bought and sold all the times. Scripts gets passed around, rewritten etc. Eventually Tobey & Company will have to decide if they want to renew their rights to do a Robotech Movie. As for a new writer? What does he care. A job is job. He'll rewrite a draft, collect his check and another writers gets a turn.

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robotech LAM gets a new writer ? Big deal. Until a definitive version of the script is confirmed, the news means nothing.

Apparently you don't know much about how filmmaking works. There is almost never a "definitive version of the script". There are almost always rewrites going on until principal photography, and even then often until the very end of shooting. Animation is a bit more locked down, but we are talking about a Hollywood movie.

Edited by Ginrai
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This might be the big news for Robotech for 2009 so far.

Exclusive: ROBOTECH Movie Gets New Writer

Wow, this is big. At least, to Robotech fans. I can see it now, in the Harmony Gold banner at Anime Expo/San Diego Comic-Con:

"EXCLUSIVE NEW INFO ON THE ROBOTECH LIVE ACTION MOVIE!!!"

I just can't believe this guy is upstaging the likes of Kasdan and the Smallville writers (and everyone in-between). I just pray this writer didn't set his draft in the year 3000...

"Ok i admit, Macross is indeed superior, that's why i stole their videos... But i'm a biased robotech fan, so in my heart ROBOTECH IS BETTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Um... because deep down, every Robotech fan wants to be a Macross fan?

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I don't think this guy is necessarily upstaging Kasdan and the rest...it seems like the pickings are getting slim more like. While these writers get paid good money to do their job, even for a draft, they probably got this guy cause other bigger names perhaps, don't have the time, or don't feel it's gonna enhance their resume. This news doesn't surprise me in the least. Last year for AX, HG had some stupid saying (when Kasdan was writing at the time), look who we got writing the story!!! He's known for (then they listed on a powerpoint the list of Kasdan's work). The truth was, HG didn't even do that, it was WB. So, now that bottomed out, they got Gough and Miller, and now they are done. Since we just don't know, they either found a writer they really do like, or they may not have great choices of who they want. Either way, this new news means absolutely nothing. Just more delay for them really, cause now they gotta wait and see if this guy can produce, and then, hope that it all pans out to make it.

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Is anybody here familiar with the process that films go through when they are in scripting/development hell stages of production? How many people could have been assigned to this project already or would it just be the writer? When would the design work happen?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_production

If this guy's screenplay/script doesn't work out, they find a new guy to write a new one. They could make dozens of screenplays and not go anywhere. They could commission artists and make thousands of designs and still not go anywhere. It's wash-rinse-repeat until they go with a certain writer's screenplay and then get that green-lighted.

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