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Robotech and HG License Debates


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Legally, yes. Easily.

That would be nice...but, well, we'll see, I guess. If this movie gets some serious traction, that is.

I always assume that any huge conglomerate could crush anything like a small anime production studio, but I could be wrong.

The Robotech LAM plagiarizing SDF: Macross and/or DYRL won't be anything like Disney plagarizing the 1960s Kimba the White Lion. Big West has its eyes on HG and is interested in protected its Macross franchise.

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The Robotech LAM plagiarizing SDF: Macross and/or DYRL won't be anything like Disney plagarizing the 1960s Kimba the White Lion. Big West has its eyes on HG and is interested in protected its Macross franchise.

Yes, Big West protected it so well that they let HG get the trademark on the name. <_<

All of this is a huge game of "telephone." I don't think we have any official statement from Big West at all regarding Macross around the world.

I'd love to be wrong about that, though, so if someone has a link, please post it.

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Even though they cannot legally do so?

That's why it's billed as a "reimagining", and not a straight-up adaptation of the Macross Saga. It'll bear as much resemblance to Macross/"The Macross Saga as Michael Bay's Transformers did to the G1 Transformers series.

I always assume that any huge conglomerate could crush anything like a small anime production studio, but I could be wrong.

Not if they have a decent copyright lawyer they can't...

Gubaba, I do consulting work in the auto industry... I've seen tiny research groups crush huge multinational corporations in court over patent infringement cases. I have no doubt that if Warner and/or Harmony Gold started abusing Big West's intellectual property, they'd take 'em to the cleaners and win.

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Gubaba, I do consulting work in the auto industry... I've seen tiny research groups crush huge multinational corporations in court over patent infringement cases. I have no doubt that if Warner and/or Harmony Gold started abusing Big West's intellectual property, they'd take 'em to the cleaners and win.

From your lips (er, fingers) to God's ears, man...

I so want to see that happen... ^_^

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Not sure if this counts as news or anything

Sgt. frog

Does Hg actually get profits from that or no? If so does mean Hg can say we did something with the franchise so we still keep the rights.

Keroro Gunso's parodies would pertain more toward the original Japanese property holders, if anything. So that really isn't in HG's territory. HG has a what would be a 3rd-party license, not a copyright.

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Technological patents is not the same thing as copyrights on an anime though and involves far larger sums of money. As said earlier in the thread we don't know much about BW's stance on all of this and if they are even interested in opposing the movie should it contain Macross story elements. Other then stating that they own the rights to the mecha designs and characters have they ever made any statement at all concerning HG and distribution?

Also wouldn't the WB legal department check on this anyway before they even start working seriously on the project?

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Also wouldn't the WB legal department check on this anyway before they even start working seriously on the project?

Of course they probably already have, but then again when Fox Studios followed through with a lawsuit over the rights for Watchmen Zach Synder just rushed the production so that the movie would be filmed before Fox Studios could bring WB to Court and have a judge order WB to stop producing Watchmen. Interestingly enough I found an article from variety magazine posted on Zach Snyder's blog that stated that "Fox said it would rather see the film killed instead of collecting a percentage of the box office" back in August of 2008. Turns out WB had issues over the Dukes of Hazard as well and (agreed in 2005 to pay producer Robert B. Clark at least $17.5 million for infringing on the copyright to his 1974 United Artists film “Moonrunners,” which became the basis of the Warners TV skein “The Dukes of Hazzard.”) ~http://www.zack-snyder.com/news/watchmen-news/foxs-watchmen-lawsuit-heats-up.

With that in mind I think that if any movie studio has a chance of pulling off a Robotech Macross Saga movie WB has to be it. Even if Big West denies the Macross rights for the movie, WB would probably be willing to just pay them off in millions for infringing and just write it off as being a cost of producing the movie.

Edited by Freiflug88
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With that in mind I think that if any movie studio has a chance of pulling off a Robotech Macross Saga movie WB has to be it. Even if Big West denies the Macross rights for the movie, WB would probably be willing to just pay them off in millions for infringing and just write it off as being a cost of producing the movie.

I find this unlikely. You make it sound like Robotech is some Transformers or GI Joe sized property. A vast majority of Americans have no idea what Robotech is.

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I find this unlikely. You make it sound like Robotech is some Transformers or GI Joe sized property. A vast majority of Americans have no idea what Robotech is.

You make it sound like the decision to make the Robotech movie is like American Idol or something.

To vote first dial: (1-325-427-4653) 1-Fck-Har-Gold

then:

For Robotech reimagined dial: ILUVLISA*

For Robotech Macross Saga: ILUVMISA*

For Robotech porn movie: FOCKLISAISAMILF*

For no Robotech movie dial: IAMGAY4BRIGHT*

Seriously the decision to spend money on pursuing or settling rights for the Robotech LAM rests in the hands of the WB execs writing fat checks and not with some popularity polls on cartoon properties. In the scheme of movie budgets $10-15 million to sort out the legal issues and get the Macross designs would be a bargain considering that A-list celebrity names cost a minimal of $20 million a piece. Just hiring Will Smith to act as Gloval would cost at least $80 million.

Edit: Replaced #(pounds) with *(star)

Edited by Freiflug88
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Even if Big West denies the Macross rights for the movie, WB would probably be willing to just pay them off in millions for infringing and just write it off as being a cost of producing the movie.

It's not as simple as that. US courts would not allow Warner Bros. to pay compulsory royalties in order to get around copyright infringment, doing so would deprive Big West of the power to control their intellectual property. The court would allow Big West to file an injunction, effectively forcing production to halt (see A&M Records Inc v Napster Inc).

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In the scheme of movie budgets $10-15 million to sort out the legal issues and get the Macross designs would be a bargain considering that A-list celebrity names cost a minimal of $20 million a piece. Just hiring Will Smith to act as Gloval would cost at least $80 million.

Who said anything about hiring actors. :blink: We don't even have a script yet. You're throwing out names and words like "Chris Nolan", "A-List celebrities" or "IMAX". We're not even at that point.

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Even though they cannot legally do so?

How is that vouching working out for you?

For question one, yes, even though...that's where the whole reimagining comes from. Do you honestly think they'd just redo everything exactly as it was back in the early 80s?

Question 2, it's working out great. Haha, maybe oneday, I'll vouch for you too. :lol:

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The Robotech LAM plagiarizing SDF: Macross and/or DYRL won't be anything like Disney plagarizing the 1960s Kimba the White Lion. Big West has its eyes on HG and is interested in protected its Macross franchise.

Is that a Wasp you're talking about? :p

I can't resist a Battletech referance.

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Who said anything about hiring actors. :blink: We don't even have a script yet. You're throwing out names and words like "Chris Nolan", "A-List celebrities" or "IMAX". We're not even at that point.

But...but...how can we hate on it if there's no THERE there yet...?

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Who said anything about hiring actors. blink.gif We don't even have a script yet. You're throwing out names and words like "Chris Nolan", "A-List celebrities" or "IMAX". We're not even at that point.

1. In the Chuck Roven Robotech Clip, he speciffically stated that "Chris Nolan" wants to film Robotech in "IMAX."

2. I was trying to say that even if WB has to pay something like $20 mill to BW for the Macross designs it would be cheaper then casting overpriced "A-list Celebrities"

3. WTF do you mean by "We don't even have a script yet?" They never make scripts public. Don't tell me your waiting for another Robotech script leak or that your with WB.

Is that a Wasp you're talking about? tongue.gif

I can't resist a Battletech referance.

Good one :lol:

I was talking more about plagiarizing the story, not the designs, but that reminds me. FASA's claim for the use of the Macross designs should be legimate now after the recent ruling considering that they got the licenses from Big West and Studio Nue. I am a thinking WB should go and have a chat with them.

Edited by Freiflug88
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FASA didn't get their licenses from Studio Nue or Big West. This is from here.

Stephen Bierce posted this on the Mekton Zeta ML and I thought it would be interesting to some of the people here. I've gotten his permission to post it:

I'm only stepping in here because I'm hearing half-truths and want to set

some records straight.

Part of the blame goes to the fact that when a property went big time in

Japan back in the early Eighties, no one company could handle the task of

producing all the merchandising--there was biz enough to go around. When Sunrise made the Dougram TV series at the end of 1981, Bandai was too busy with the model kits for Gundam and Space Cruiser Yamato to produce the models, so Sunrise licensed Takara and Nitto to do the work instead. Nitto would also produce the model kits for Crusher Joe.

Macross was pretty much the same story in '82. The model kit licenses were divided between ARII, IMAI and Nichimo (and Bandai would come along later and make new pressings from IMAI's molds).

There was already a trade in American companies reboxing more traditional model kits from foreign companies. Some companies had pre-existing contracts or partnerships. Testors had one with Nichimo. Revell had one with Doyusha, which was affiliated with Takara. By 1984, both companies were bringing over Macross model kits as "R.O.B.O.T." and "Robotech" respectively.

Takara also produced a miniature wargame based on Dougram. There were two sets: The Battle of Stanrey and The Battle of Kalnock. These, other Japanese wargames, and a sizable number of mecha model kits were handled by a company called Twentieth Century Imports. This company worked with the FASA game company, which had already made another, forgotten miniature robot game called COMBOTS. It's likely that Takara's Dougram games inspired much of what was first called "Battledroids", and then renamed Battletech. FASA repackaged a number of Dougram (ex-Nitto), Crusher Joe (ditto) and Macross (ex-Nichimo) model kits as game pieces, but unlike Testors and Revell (who was also repackaging Takara-made Dougram models for "Robotech") neither FASA nor TCI cited the original Japanese sources for

their mecha designs on the initial Battletech products. (I'm not going to

posit whether this was done from ignorance or in the belief that they could

do whatever they wanted to with the designs.) The Battletech game came out around 1985, as I remember.

As this was going on, Carl Macek is trying to get Macross onto US TV and

finding that the show is too short for syndication as is. We know the

answer to the problem...find two more "compatible" programs to pad out the length, somehow tie the narratives together, and give them a common title. Whether Macek found Revell or the other way around?--who knows...but at the time Revell was based in California. It was easy for the two of them to make a deal. Revell would continue to sell model kits and license the title (while keeping the legal trademark) to Harmony Gold, and Harmony Gold could also license other merchandising...Matchbox for toys, Comico for comic books (after Revell themselves had DC make a miniseries based on the Dougram mecha), etc.

Palladium's licensed Robotech RPG appeared just after the first American

run of the TV series in 1986. (I don't think FASA or Macek were all that

aware of each other's doings. I doubt Macek ever approached FASA for any licensing deals.)

Harmony Gold made enough money from the syndication of the TV series and other projects to buy the Robotech trademark from Revell in the early

Nineties, long after Revell had finished importing Japanese robot model

kits. Harmony Gold would suffer troubles, detailed in Robotech Art 3, on

the attempt to produce a Robotech feature film and a follow-up TV series.

But with the novels and the comic books, Robotech fandom persisted.

Meanwhile, Battletech would also progress, into video games and a TV series of its own in the middle Nineties--that would also demand further

merchandising. So they licensed Tyco to make toys of Battletech 'mechs--

Which would end up in stores side-by-side with re-issued Matchbox Robotech toys marketed as part of the Playmates company Exo-Squad TV series product line. FASA cried foul, took Playmates to court, and Playmates won in early 1996.

http://www.allbusiness.com/legal/trial- ... 230-1.html

A direct consequence of FASA's loss was the end of FASA's use of what is

now called the Unseen...the original Japanese mecha designs from Macross, Dougram and Crusher Joe.

http://brianscache.com/unseen/

An indirect consquence is that Harmony Gold and many other companies

related to anime and gaming have become much more aware about use and abuse of intellectual properties. Rumor also has it that HG didn't like it when Palladium and Dream Pod 9 went behind HG's back to adapt the Robotech RPG for Macross II. HG and Palladium had a falling-out for a while. This eased when HG licensed Shadow Chronicles to Palladium, but I'm not sure all the hard feelings have gone away.

do you really want the return of this?

post-1819-1243995169_thumb.jpg

Edited by VF5SS
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do you really want the return of this?

Reduced 82%

Attached Image

412 x 536 (41.58K)

Never was a battletech fan so this it the first time I have seen it. It looks like a VF-1J from Mars to me! Do I want the return of this? Hell yeah! If I had one I would put it next to my Roswell UFO model.

lin91005.jpg

Edited by Freiflug88
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3. WTF do you mean by "We don't even have a script yet?" They never make scripts public. Don't tell me your waiting for another Robotech script leak or that your with WB.

Years ago it was the only way people knew whether or not work was actually going on with Robotech. The rest of the time it was the regular "We own everything in Robotech," hubbub on rt.com and convention panels that revealed nothing. People are always excited about waiting for it though.

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This thread is boring and contains no useful information. I guess this is just where we are trying to pen up our resident techies?

Someone poke me when something actually happens.

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This thread is boring and contains no useful information. I guess this is just where we are trying to pen up our resident techies?

Someone poke me when something actually happens.

Your wish is my command...

FINALLY! After MONTHS and MONTHS of waiting, a friend of a friend of a friend said that this leaked footage is an ACTUAL SCENE from the RT LAM! Enjoy!

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1. In the Chuck Roven Robotech Clip, he speciffically stated that "Chris Nolan" wants to film Robotech in "IMAX."

2. I was trying to say that even if WB has to pay something like $20 mill to BW for the Macross designs it would be cheaper then casting overpriced "A-list Celebrities"

3. WTF do you mean by "We don't even have a script yet?" They never make scripts public. Don't tell me your waiting for another Robotech script leak or that your with WB.

1) Doesn't mean Chris Nolan will actually do a RT film. He wanted to film The Dark Knight in IMAX cuz he was working on it the actual production. There's no director attached to this production so it's hard to gauge what someone wants when we don't even know if they will actually work on it. And as of Feb. 2009, Chuck Roven is no longer involved in this project. (Linky)

2) Normally they don't disclose the amount for things like this, unless it goes to open court.

3) If they hire a director or start casting then we have a script/screenplay. Lawrence Kasdan wrote something up. Then Alfred Gough and Miles Millar came on board. Normally, we hear of script reviews as the studio either leaks it or starts fishing for a production staff. As Einherjar said, that's the one of the few ways we know if anything is being done on movies.

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Guess that's why recently they've settled with using a lot of distractions during convention panels to keep fans interested; free stuff/prizes, PowerPoint presentations, voice actor and HG crew guest appearances, a guy with a huge tuna head hat, etc. I admit that kind of stuff is fun to see the first couple of times, but with anything, eventually I'd like to see some concrete evidence that progress going on if they say they're doing something. At least two years of doing this is a bit much.

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This thread is boring and contains no useful information. I guess this is just where we are trying to pen up our resident techies?

Someone poke me when something actually happens.

AGREED. I've checked this thread 20x and without posting, nothing to say right now I guess.

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Your wish is my command...

FINALLY! After MONTHS and MONTHS of waiting, a friend of a friend of a friend said that this leaked footage is an ACTUAL SCENE from the RT LAM! Enjoy!

LOL!

The clip only serves to remind me of one thing - how mismatched the music is.

Hey... what happened to the sparks coming off of the knives part of the scene???

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Your wish is my command...

FINALLY! After MONTHS and MONTHS of waiting, a friend of a friend of a friend said that this leaked footage is an ACTUAL SCENE from the RT LAM! Enjoy!

Saw that same clip posted on Topless Robot.com several months ago. For the real Robotech LAM they should cast Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie not only cause the Sterlings are the Smiths of Robotech, but because they will cost so much money to cast WB will have to rush the CG of the knife scene and make it just as crappy as the original to stay in the budget.

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This thread is boring and contains no useful information. I guess this is just where we are trying to pen up our resident techies?

Someone poke me when something actually happens.

Well, I didn't want to do this, but here's Dougbendo in the flesh:

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Does he ever talk about Robotech? It was so boring hearing him talk about how fun it was gonna be. Usually I find that kind of humor funny... the whole over top delusion of grandeur sarcasm (A1 comes to mind), but he was pretty bad at it. I don't really see why you guys keep bringing up people like him. But I guess that's what's left to talk about when it comes to Robotech fandom. It's sad really, I really loved Robotech as a kid, to see the state that it's in now makes me want to collect He-Man... oh wait... I am buying those too... lol. $200 Macross toys, $20 MOTUC figures... WTF???

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Your wish is my command...

FINALLY! After MONTHS and MONTHS of waiting, a friend of a friend of a friend said that this leaked footage is an ACTUAL SCENE from the RT LAM! Enjoy!

At least it's better than Shadow Chronicles.

Pete

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Well, I didn't want to do this, but here's Dougbendo in the flesh:

It's amazing how he makes up all this b******t claims like him coming from the future, and being a cyborg. B)) (Note to self: Dougbendo is the TERMINATOR, must warn the US Government) :lol: If he's just trolling us, then good for him; but it looks like he's taking this way too seriously. :p

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"I plan to take Robotech into a whole new direction"...WTF? You know, I listen to Dougbendo's site from time to time, but only when there's something worth hearing. Watching that takes Robotech further down its slipping slope. If you listen to it at 8:40, you'll see why Robotech's "new fan face" will probably bring its end. To be honest, I'd like to get back into enjoying Robotech. I'd like to see new mecha, an engaging story and what not, but Robotech gives me absolutely no reason to get back into it. At this point, Robotech as a whole has even driven away the people who helped keep it engaging, like Darkwater, and Captain JLS. While I disagreed with much of Captain JLS's comments in regards to the Macross franchise, as a Robotech fan now gone, that's a big blow to their fanbase. It seems like Dougbendo will make the attempt to take over that position. The problem with that is he has most Robotech fans against him, as he's very against the grain with the status quo of the fanbase.

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Well, I didn't want to do this, but here's Dougbendo in the flesh:

If this idiot called Dougbendo is the new face of the robotech fandom (little r on purpose), robotech as a dead franchise is a dream comes true for me. :D At least, Dougbendo makes me appreciate the fact how being a fan of robotech is a waste of time.

Edited by Macross007
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"I plan to take Robotech into a whole new direction"...WTF? You know, I listen to Dougbendo's site from time to time, but only when there's something worth hearing. Watching that takes Robotech further down its slipping slope. If you listen to it at 8:40, you'll see why Robotech's "new fan face" will probably bring its end. To be honest, I'd like to get back into enjoying Robotech. I'd like to see new mecha, an engaging story and what not, but Robotech gives me absolutely no reason to get back into it. At this point, Robotech as a whole has even driven away the people who helped keep it engaging, like Darkwater, and Captain JLS. While I disagreed with much of Captain JLS's comments in regards to the Macross franchise, as a Robotech fan now gone, that's a big blow to their fanbase. It seems like Dougbendo will make the attempt to take over that position. The problem with that is he has most Robotech fans against him, as he's very against the grain with the status quo of the fanbase.

That's a big part of it, but I think he'll fail, not because he's out of step with the other fans, but because he doesn't seem to be trying to serve the fandom in any way, he seems to be trying to dominate it.

Fans will always gravitate toward other fans that give something that they otherwise couldn't get, be it information, products, or even a sense of humor. Here, for example, we've got a lot of people with followings because they either seem to find info before anyone else can (like Kresphy) or build models that other people want (like Valk009). Likewise, you can win fans over by being exceptionally funny (Destroy All Podcasts comes to mind).

Doug Bendo does none of these things. He's just a blowhard who's full of himself. He seems to believe that people will come around to him because there's no one else left. But unless he starts getting people like Tom Bateman on every show, I don't think anyone else will follow.

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